EPTBut it's actually true that if he does pick Warren as VP that would move me from "not caring one bit" to "kind of hoping he wins".
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12318 Posts
But it's actually true that if he does pick Warren as VP that would move me from "not caring one bit" to "kind of hoping he wins". | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23450 Posts
On April 09 2020 01:40 mierin wrote: Can't say I'm surprised. Hope he picks someone who is at least a little progressive as his VP in case the worst happens. Totally going to be Gretchen Whitmer imo On April 09 2020 01:43 Nebuchad wrote: I wonder if the Republicans will still lie about the democratic candidate now that they can make him look bad by just telling the truth about him. I'm not sure they even know how to run a campaign without lying at this point. Of course they will. But it will be things like "How can Trump be racist Joe Biden is the one that bragged about working and hanging out with segregationists". So the bit of truth will be more biting imo. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6215 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On April 09 2020 01:59 Sermokala wrote: Sad to see this country go for 4 more years of trump like that. Biden never had a chance against trump and has just gotten worse over the campaign. I can't seriously vote for a guy with clear signs of cognitive decline, who was never a real democrat to begin with. If people are too dumb to not see the difference between really not that great and absolutely fucking awful, then yeah, he has no chance. The world would be a hard place for authoritarians, conmen and far right demagogues without people holding your line of reasoning. I'm aware by the way that there are lots of liberal alter egos of yours who would never have voted for such a horrible socialist like Sanders because Venezuela, so at least you don't have the monopoly of complete lack of political saviness. It's a shared value on the whole left of the political spectrum, from the centre to hardcore socialists. They all seem to have that political death wish, which must be so much fun to witness from the other side. Four more years of Trump it is then, since the fact it could be the end of american democracy, a death sentence for climate, a completely far right supreme court for decades, and so on and so on means nothing to you. It will be fun to blame it on the DNC afterward. Or something. "I wanted fish and not meat so instead I'll eat dog poop." At least progressives and liberals could agree and share that new motto. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On April 09 2020 01:59 Sermokala wrote: Sad to see this country go for 4 more years of trump like that. Biden never had a chance against trump and has just gotten worse over the campaign. I can't seriously vote for a guy with clear signs of cognitive decline, who was never a real democrat to begin with. Why do people keep saying Biden has no chance? What is that based off of? Votes? He crushed the primary. Polling? He polls better in toss up states than sanders does, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. What is this idea that somehow sanders was the better choice to beat trump? What is that based on other than Reddit and personal feelings? | ||
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Simberto
Germany11620 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7380 Posts
Ha, nah, they'll keep doing it, anyone want to start a really early pool on who they force through as the nominee for 2024? Think Booker has a shot? Think they'll aim for a Buttigieg? Or will they try and get the woman angle going with Klobuchar again? I'm checked out of the presidency, down ballot, progressive house faction, progressive senate faction. Playing nice-nice with the DNC doesn't work just like playing nice-nice with the Republicans doesn't work, if we want to show that progressives exist in the US and that we aren't going to lick the shit from the DNC's prolapsed anus we have to go Tea Party and exert some real power in congress. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On April 09 2020 02:21 Simberto wrote: Kind of frustrating that US elections are between conservatives and batshit insane authoritarians. The US system is really good at preventing people from voting for what they would want to vote for, instead forcing them to choose the "lesser of two evil" a lot of the time. Democracy is almost always between choosing the lesser of two evils. I voted for Macron because the alternative was Le Pen. Do I like Macron? No not really. But he is ok-ish. I prefer ok-ish than a 1930 fascist. Nobody forced people to vote for Biden. He just won much more votes than Sanders. And that's ok. Sanders is certainly a much better option, but that's the rules of the game. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23450 Posts
On April 09 2020 02:21 IyMoon wrote: Why do people keep saying Biden has no chance? What is that based off of? Votes? He crushed the primary. Polling? He polls better in toss up states than sanders does, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. What is this idea that somehow sanders was the better choice to beat trump? What is that based on other than Reddit and personal feelings? Because the "vote blue no matter who" people would have voted in the same frequency as usual for the Democrat with Sanders as the nominee and Biden has 0 chance to drive the youth turnout it took for Obama's coalition and doesn't have the death grip on the establishment party figures Hillary did. I for one think it's optimistic to believe Democrats are going to be able to force Republicans to hold a legit election for 2020. They literally tried to impeach him for illegally using national resources and his office to leverage another nation to help rig the 2020 election and Democrats failed there. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On April 09 2020 02:22 Zambrah wrote: Maybe if Trump wins the DNC will stop shoving their shit sandwich centrist crown prince(ss) at us. Ha, nah, they'll keep doing it, anyone want to start a really early pool on who they force through as the nominee for 2024? Think Booker has a shot? Think they'll aim for a Buttigieg? Or will they try and get the woman angle going with Klobuchar again? I'm checked out of the presidency, down ballot, progressive house faction, progressive senate faction. Playing nice-nice with the DNC doesn't work just like playing nice-nice with the Republicans doesn't work, if we want to show that progressives exist in the US and that we aren't going to lick the shit from the DNC's prolapsed anus we have to go Tea Party and exert some real power in congress. Good idea, let's imitate the most toxic populist movement in recent political history. Progressives are gaining ground. Just do a good job, work for the best of the country, build bridges and you'll have your candidate win the primaries. Right now a lot of convincing meeds to be done. Throwing a tantrum doesn't convince anyone. I am a progressive too. Reading people writing the kind of shit some progressives write here pushed me more to the centre than anything I've encountered in my life. Just don't do that. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On April 09 2020 02:28 GreenHorizons wrote: Because the "vote blue no matter who" people would have voted in the same frequency as usual for the Democrat with Sanders as the nominee and Biden has 0 chance to drive the youth turnout it took for Obama's coalition and doesn't have the death grip on the establishment party figures Hillary did. I for one think it's optimistic to believe Democrats are going to be able to force Republicans to hold a legit election for 2020. They literally tried to impeach him for illegally using national resources and his office to leverage another nation to help rig the 2020 election and Democrats failed there. Believe me for every progressive that says that Biden is a deplorable person and so on, there is a liberal that thinks Sanders is a crazy commie that wants to transforms America into Venezuela. People that can't put their differences aside, lose. Period. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9243 Posts
On April 09 2020 02:21 IyMoon wrote: Why do people keep saying Biden has no chance? What is that based off of? Votes? He crushed the primary. Polling? He polls better in toss up states than sanders does, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. What is this idea that somehow sanders was the better choice to beat trump? What is that based on other than Reddit and personal feelings? Biden's chances are low because he'll be fighting an uphill battle against an incumbent with the "rally around the flag" buff. It pretty much doesn't matter what he'll do or say, he has to count on Trump shooting himself in the foot repeadetly. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On April 09 2020 02:32 Sent. wrote: Biden's chances are low because he'll be fighting an uphill battle against an incumbent with the "rally around the flag" buff. It pretty much doesn't matter what he'll do or say, he has to count on Trump shooting himself in the foot repeatedly. I mean.... This is Trump. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7380 Posts
On April 09 2020 02:28 Biff The Understudy wrote: Good idea, let's imitate the most toxic populist movement in recent political history. Progressives are gaining ground. Just do a good job, work for the best of the country, build bridges and you'll have your candidate win the primaries. Right now a lot of convincing meeds to be done. Throwing a tantrum doesn't convince anyone. I am a progressive too. Reading people writing the kind of shit some progressives write here pushed me more to the centre than anything I've encountered in my life. Just don't do that. The DNC only wants one way bridges, I think thats pretty clear by now. And yes, I think mimicking one of the few ways a sect of people were able to exert power in US politics without sucking partyline dick is a smart idea. The perk of trying to be a progressive Tea Party is that we aim for the power and influence of the Tea Party without their bullshit policy nonsense. And for everyone like you who was pushed to center, you have a me, who was pushed farther to the left, so I'm going to keep doing what I think is best to further an actual progressive agenda and not just get told to "build bridges" by voting for sex offenders and corporate stooges. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12318 Posts
McCain was the candidate of putting your differences aside in the center against the left, he lost. Romney was the candidate of putting your differences aside in the center against the left, he lost. Clinton was the candidate of putting your differences aside in the center against the right, she lost. But hey, if only this time we could put our differences aside in the center, which I'm told is clearly the correct strategy, we might win  The thing is, it is logically true that a centrist candidate should do better than a candidate that is in one of the wings. You'd think that at some point that would make people realize that the center is not where they've been told it is, but nothing happens. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On April 09 2020 02:35 Nebuchad wrote: Kerry was the candidate of putting your differences aside in the center against the right, he lost. McCain was the candidate of putting your differences aside in the center against the left, he lost. Romney was the candidate of putting your differences aside in the center against the left, he lost. Clinton was the candidate of putting your differences aside in the center against the right, he lost. But hey, if only this time we could put our differences aside in the center, which I'm told is clearly the correct strategy, we might win You'd think that at some point people would realize that the center is not where they tell you it is. So Romney and Mc Cain (lol Palin) were more centrists than Obama. Ok. Nevermind The fact that Obama was the greatest bridge builder we've seen in decades. Well now that anyway it's Biden, I'm sure, as reasonable people, we can root for him. And fight for the progressive cause once the most dangerous man of american politics in the last 70 years is you know, out if the fucking White House. Or we can keep whining about the DNC and keep walking to the abyss. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23450 Posts
On April 09 2020 02:35 Nebuchad wrote: Kerry was the candidate of putting your differences aside in the center against the right, he lost. McCain was the candidate of putting your differences aside in the center against the left, he lost. Romney was the candidate of putting your differences aside in the center against the left, he lost. Clinton was the candidate of putting your differences aside in the center against the right, she lost. But hey, if only this time we could put our differences aside in the center, which I'm told is clearly the correct strategy, we might win The thing is, it is logically true that a centrist candidate should do better than a candidate that is in one of the wings. You'd think that at some point that would make people realize that the center is not where they've been told it is, but nothing happens. One thing I think everyone can agree on is that Biden simply doesn't have the rhetorical ability to sweep the left up in rhetoric while pleasing the center with his policy People to his left actually believed his more progressive rhetoric, and part of why he got a lot less votes his second run. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12318 Posts
On April 09 2020 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote: So Romney and Mc Cain (lol Palin) were more centrists than Obama. Ok. Not in practice, sure, but in rhetoric absolutely. They were going for the conservative democrat/moderate republican electorate that was scared of Obama's communism. On April 09 2020 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote: Well now that anyway it's Biden, I'm sure, as reasonable people, we can root for him. And fight for the progressive cause once the most dangerous man of american politics in the last 70 years is you know, out if the fucking White House. Or we can keep whining about the DNC and keep walking to the abyss. As of right now, don't care. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23450 Posts
On April 09 2020 02:39 Biff The Understudy wrote: So Romney and Mc Cain (lol Palin) were more centrists than Obama. Ok. Nevermind The fact that Obama was the greatest bridge builder we've seen in decades. Well now that anyway it's Biden, I'm sure, as reasonable people, we can root for him. And fight for the progressive cause once the most dangerous man of american politics in the last 70 years is you know, out if the fucking White House. Or we can keep whining about the DNC and keep walking to the abyss. You don't feel slimy rooting for a credibly accused sexual predator? Let alone his long history of collaborating with segregationists and such? | ||
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Sent.
Poland9243 Posts
I mean stuff even his supporters would consider very bad, which is highly unlikely when he can just focus on attacking China, democracts, and Europe or boasting about the "tremendous sums of money he'll personally order to be injected into the economy to save the country". | ||
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