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On April 09 2020 01:40 mierin wrote: Can't say I'm surprised. Hope he picks someone who is at least a little progressive as his VP in case the worst happens.
Basically a 100% chance it is Warren. The only thing "wrong" with her as a VP is that she isn't black. But Biden already has great black support from being Obama's VP, so he's good there. I think Warren yelling a bunch of progressive stuff over the course of a campaign would be enough to make sure people like me vote for Biden.
I have heard of a few names on his short-list. Rumors include: Klobuchar, Warren, Harris, Val Demings, Whitmer, Abrams, Grisham, Masto, Baldwin, and Duckworth.
Out of those, I think Warren would be one of the best bets. Klobuchar would basically be the female Tim Kaine. Harris would be super divisive. I wish he'd also consider some other women like Nina Turner, who also wouldn't be a terrible pick (younger, progressive, female, person-of-color, co-chair of Bernie Sanders's campaign, would lock-in Ohio, etc.).
On April 09 2020 01:59 Sermokala wrote: Sad to see this country go for 4 more years of trump like that. Biden never had a chance against trump and has just gotten worse over the campaign.
I can't seriously vote for a guy with clear signs of cognitive decline, who was never a real democrat to begin with.
Why do people keep saying Biden has no chance? What is that based off of? Votes? He crushed the primary. Polling? He polls better in toss up states than sanders does, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
What is this idea that somehow sanders was the better choice to beat trump? What is that based on other than Reddit and personal feelings?
Biden's chances are low because he'll be fighting an uphill battle against an incumbent with the "rally around the flag" buff. It pretty much doesn't matter what he'll do or say, he has to count on Trump shooting himself in the foot repeatedly.
I mean.... This is Trump.
I mean stuff even his supporters would consider very bad, which is highly unlikely when he can just focus on attacking China, democracts, and Europe or boasting about the "tremendous sums of money he'll personally order to be injected into the economy to save the country".
Attacking China has bipartisan appeal so he will lean into that, he's also to the left of many Democrats on sending out cash to people instead of feeding it exclusively through unemployment and corporations. While he also eliminated the oversight for the last corporate relief package.
On April 09 2020 02:22 Zambrah wrote: Maybe if Trump wins the DNC will stop shoving their shit sandwich centrist crown prince(ss) at us.
Ha, nah, they'll keep doing it, anyone want to start a really early pool on who they force through as the nominee for 2024? Think Booker has a shot? Think they'll aim for a Buttigieg? Or will they try and get the woman angle going with Klobuchar again?
What do you mean by "shoving" and "force"? With the possible exception of the Iowa caucus being super shady (which didn't help Biden anyway), Biden pretty much won this primary fair and square. Superdelegates didn't play a role in it, like can be argued in the 2016 primary. I'm a progressive and a Bernie supporter, but my team lost this time around. Definitively. My team had fewer supporters and fewer voters.
There's really not much people can do. Biden's the better poison, so pick him I guess. There's a lot less grassroots enthusiasm for Biden compared to Sanders, so hopefully America can kick Trump to the curb.
On April 09 2020 02:22 Zambrah wrote: Maybe if Trump wins the DNC will stop shoving their shit sandwich centrist crown prince(ss) at us.
Ha, nah, they'll keep doing it, anyone want to start a really early pool on who they force through as the nominee for 2024? Think Booker has a shot? Think they'll aim for a Buttigieg? Or will they try and get the woman angle going with Klobuchar again?
What do you mean by "shoving" and "force"? With the possible exception of the Iowa caucus being super shady (which didn't help Biden anyway), Biden pretty much won this primary fair and square. Superdelegates didn't play a role in it, like can be argued in the 2016 primary. I'm a progressive and a Bernie supporter, but my team lost this time around. Definitively. My team had fewer supporters and fewer voters.
This "fair" narrative about the primary is problematic.
Either 7+ hour lines are fair and Democrats can't call it voter suppression when Republicans do it, or there wasn't a fair primary. Can't say it's fair for Democrats to make college students wait in line for 7+ hours to vote, but when Republicans do it, it's evil voter suppression.
EDIT: Just want to agree with Neb below that Warren would be more than enough of an olive branch for most people even to Bernie's left, but of course that's not who Biden will pick and instead some watered down version of legislation that's DOA in congress will be dangled as bait then hardened into a stick of shame to beat progressives into line with.
I mean the primaries were fair in the sense that they didn't include anything that wasn't included before. That the media shit on Sanders all day was not quite fair, but we didn't not expect it. That all the centrists fell on their swords to make sure there was a strong centrist candidate to face Sanders, while the other progressive stayed in the race (propped up by large donations from a main donor that clearly wanted Bernie to lose rather than Warren to win) was not exactly fair, but again, nothing that we shouldn't have expected.
Just get yourselves a progressive VP like Plasma said and you have me back on your side from the side of not caring. And more importantly a lot of people who are about where I stand since, lol, I can't vote anyway. I think even Warren would work there, at least it would for me.
And once Biden doesn't pick a progressive VP because lol he obviously won't, please allocate blame accordingly.
Good thing that Biden's the candidate, might give the Democrats a good shot in the general because in a pandemic in particular people are going to look to someone who can lead and return the situation to normalcy.
The idea that Sanders losing is in any way surprising or unfair is pretty hilarious. Biden seems to have won with barely any cash. If your goal is to get money out of politics Biden had to be your candidate, he was basically broke and barely campaigned. If Sanders had pivoted to the centre after his early wins I think he would have had a fair shot with some momentum, but the entire shtick of "Democrats, and Republicans we don't need you viva la revolution" just did him in.
On April 09 2020 03:19 Nyxisto wrote: Good thing that Biden's the candidate, might give the Democrats a good shot in the general because in a pandemic in particular people are going to look to someone who can lead and return the situation to normalcy.
The idea that Sanders losing is in any way surprising or unfair is pretty hilarious. Biden seems to have won with barely any cash. If your goal is to get money out of politics Biden had to be your candidate, he was basically broke and barely campaigned. If Sanders had pivoted to the centre after his early wins I think he would have had a fair shot with some momentum, but the entire shtick of "Democrats, and Republicans we don't need you viva la revolution" just did him in.
On April 09 2020 03:19 Nyxisto wrote: Good thing that Biden's the candidate, might give the Democrats a good shot in the general because in a pandemic in particular people are going to look to someone who can lead and return the situation to normalcy.
The idea that Sanders losing is in any way surprising or unfair is pretty hilarious. Biden seems to have won with barely any cash. If your goal is to get money out of politics Biden had to be your candidate, he was basically broke and barely campaigned. If Sanders had pivoted to the centre after his early wins I think he would have had a fair shot with some momentum, but the entire shtick of "Democrats, and Republicans we don't need you viva la revolution" just did him in.
Part of the getting money out of politics is to keep corporate money out, though. I don't really mind basic civilian money being donated (to an extent, I'd keep it limited to maybe 100 dollars) its PACs and shit that I dislike.
On April 09 2020 03:16 Mohdoo wrote: Can someone explain why Gretchen is such a given?
She’s a safe bet Midwestern governor who neatly aligns with Biden’s middlebrow platform while also having sparred with Trump enough to have national recognition.
On April 09 2020 03:16 Mohdoo wrote: Can someone explain why Gretchen is such a given?
She’s a safe bet Midwestern governor who neatly aligns with Biden’s middlebrow platform while also having sparred with Trump enough to have national recognition.
Works for me. If we take Michigan and Wisconsin, I think that's GG. But we should be assuming Trump will win in Florida.
On April 09 2020 02:22 Zambrah wrote: Maybe if Trump wins the DNC will stop shoving their shit sandwich centrist crown prince(ss) at us.
Ha, nah, they'll keep doing it, anyone want to start a really early pool on who they force through as the nominee for 2024? Think Booker has a shot? Think they'll aim for a Buttigieg? Or will they try and get the woman angle going with Klobuchar again?
What do you mean by "shoving" and "force"? With the possible exception of the Iowa caucus being super shady (which didn't help Biden anyway), Biden pretty much won this primary fair and square. Superdelegates didn't play a role in it, like can be argued in the 2016 primary. I'm a progressive and a Bernie supporter, but my team lost this time around. Definitively. My team had fewer supporters and fewer voters.
This "fair" narrative about the primary is problematic.
Either 7+ hour lines are fair and Democrats can't call it voter suppression when Republicans do it, or there wasn't a fair primary. Can't say it's fair for Democrats to make college students wait in line for 7+ hours to vote, but when Republicans do it, it's evil voter suppression.
That's a red herring to what Zambrah was talking about, unless you're suggesting that the DNC forced Sanders supporters to wait in 7+ hour lines while somehow letting Biden/ centrist supporters cut the line and vote quickly.
On April 09 2020 02:22 Zambrah wrote: Maybe if Trump wins the DNC will stop shoving their shit sandwich centrist crown prince(ss) at us.
Ha, nah, they'll keep doing it, anyone want to start a really early pool on who they force through as the nominee for 2024? Think Booker has a shot? Think they'll aim for a Buttigieg? Or will they try and get the woman angle going with Klobuchar again?
What do you mean by "shoving" and "force"? With the possible exception of the Iowa caucus being super shady (which didn't help Biden anyway), Biden pretty much won this primary fair and square. Superdelegates didn't play a role in it, like can be argued in the 2016 primary. I'm a progressive and a Bernie supporter, but my team lost this time around. Definitively. My team had fewer supporters and fewer voters.
This "fair" narrative about the primary is problematic.
Either 7+ hour lines are fair and Democrats can't call it voter suppression when Republicans do it, or there wasn't a fair primary. Can't say it's fair for Democrats to make college students wait in line for 7+ hours to vote, but when Republicans do it, it's evil voter suppression.
That's a red herring to what Zambrah was talking about, unless you're suggesting that the DNC forced Sanders supporters to wait in 7+ hour lines while somehow letting Biden/ centrist supporters cut the line and vote quickly.
Which is what Republicans will say next time Democrats point to long lines as voter disenfranchisement.
"What do Democrats think Republicans just get to cut to the front of those lines?!? lol. Democrats calling several hour long lines to vote disenfranchisement are putting up a red herring and they have been for decades"
On April 09 2020 02:22 Zambrah wrote: Maybe if Trump wins the DNC will stop shoving their shit sandwich centrist crown prince(ss) at us.
Ha, nah, they'll keep doing it, anyone want to start a really early pool on who they force through as the nominee for 2024? Think Booker has a shot? Think they'll aim for a Buttigieg? Or will they try and get the woman angle going with Klobuchar again?
What do you mean by "shoving" and "force"? With the possible exception of the Iowa caucus being super shady (which didn't help Biden anyway), Biden pretty much won this primary fair and square. Superdelegates didn't play a role in it, like can be argued in the 2016 primary. I'm a progressive and a Bernie supporter, but my team lost this time around. Definitively. My team had fewer supporters and fewer voters.
I won't argue that more people voted for Biden, but I think its really clear that the DNC does not want progressive candidates and will do what they can (like all of the moderates dropping out to support Biden despite them having no reason to do so other than to consolidate around a moderate, not like Buttigieg's campaign was hopeless) to prevent progressives from holding any sway over the party.
I'm not alleging intentional foul play, to be clear.
This is why I'm fine with voting for Biden. He may be an rapist, but we've had plenty of those in the white house before (see Thomas Jefferson). Presidents who can just ignore congress haven't been seen since Jackson.
On April 09 2020 02:22 Zambrah wrote: Maybe if Trump wins the DNC will stop shoving their shit sandwich centrist crown prince(ss) at us.
Ha, nah, they'll keep doing it, anyone want to start a really early pool on who they force through as the nominee for 2024? Think Booker has a shot? Think they'll aim for a Buttigieg? Or will they try and get the woman angle going with Klobuchar again?
What do you mean by "shoving" and "force"? With the possible exception of the Iowa caucus being super shady (which didn't help Biden anyway), Biden pretty much won this primary fair and square. Superdelegates didn't play a role in it, like can be argued in the 2016 primary. I'm a progressive and a Bernie supporter, but my team lost this time around. Definitively. My team had fewer supporters and fewer voters.
I won't argue that more people voted for Biden, but I think its really clear that the DNC does not want progressive candidates and will do what they can (like all of the moderates dropping out to support Biden despite them having no reason to do so other than to consolidate around a moderate, not like Buttigieg's campaign was hopeless) to prevent progressives from holding any sway over the party.
I'm not alleging intentional foul play, to be clear.
Understood. I agree with you that the DNC does not want progressive candidates, although I do think that the writing was on the wall pretty early (before Super Tuesday) for every other moderate candidate becoming irrelevant in the Democratic primary. While Buttigieg performed well in Iowa and NH, it had been already established that he had virtually no non-white support; it was all but predestined that this was going to be Sanders vs. Biden, and that if the moderates wanted one of their own to win, the best strategy was to not pull from Biden's voter base. It's frustrating, but I'm not particularly surprised that the DNC keeps fielding moderates because 1. The DNC is mostly moderate and 2. The Democratic party is mostly moderate.
On April 09 2020 02:22 Zambrah wrote: Maybe if Trump wins the DNC will stop shoving their shit sandwich centrist crown prince(ss) at us.
Ha, nah, they'll keep doing it, anyone want to start a really early pool on who they force through as the nominee for 2024? Think Booker has a shot? Think they'll aim for a Buttigieg? Or will they try and get the woman angle going with Klobuchar again?
What do you mean by "shoving" and "force"? With the possible exception of the Iowa caucus being super shady (which didn't help Biden anyway), Biden pretty much won this primary fair and square. Superdelegates didn't play a role in it, like can be argued in the 2016 primary. I'm a progressive and a Bernie supporter, but my team lost this time around. Definitively. My team had fewer supporters and fewer voters.
I won't argue that more people voted for Biden, but I think its really clear that the DNC does not want progressive candidates and will do what they can (like all of the moderates dropping out to support Biden despite them having no reason to do so other than to consolidate around a moderate, not like Buttigieg's campaign was hopeless) to prevent progressives from holding any sway over the party.
I'm not alleging intentional foul play, to be clear.
Understood. I agree with you that the DNC does not want progressive candidates, although I do think that the writing was on the wall pretty early (before Super Tuesday) for every other moderate candidate becoming irrelevant in the Democratic primary. While Buttigieg performed well in Iowa and NH, it had been already established that he had virtually no non-white support; it was all but predestined that this was going to be Sanders vs. Biden, and that if the moderates wanted one of their own to win, the best strategy was to not pull from Biden's voter base. It's frustrating, but I'm not particularly surprised that the DNC keeps fielding moderates because 1. The DNC is mostly moderate and 2. The Democratic party is mostly moderate.
I'd argue the Democrats are mostly conservative, but yes, I think this was always going to be Bernie vs. WhoeverTheDNCDecided
EDIT: I also want to offhandedly bitch that a state like SOUTH CAROLINA that will definitely vote Republican is weighed so highly, lol. America's system just kind of sucks as a whole though, I guess.
On April 09 2020 02:22 Zambrah wrote: Maybe if Trump wins the DNC will stop shoving their shit sandwich centrist crown prince(ss) at us.
Ha, nah, they'll keep doing it, anyone want to start a really early pool on who they force through as the nominee for 2024? Think Booker has a shot? Think they'll aim for a Buttigieg? Or will they try and get the woman angle going with Klobuchar again?
What do you mean by "shoving" and "force"? With the possible exception of the Iowa caucus being super shady (which didn't help Biden anyway), Biden pretty much won this primary fair and square. Superdelegates didn't play a role in it, like can be argued in the 2016 primary. I'm a progressive and a Bernie supporter, but my team lost this time around. Definitively. My team had fewer supporters and fewer voters.
I won't argue that more people voted for Biden, but I think its really clear that the DNC does not want progressive candidates and will do what they can (like all of the moderates dropping out to support Biden despite them having no reason to do so other than to consolidate around a moderate, not like Buttigieg's campaign was hopeless) to prevent progressives from holding any sway over the party.
I'm not alleging intentional foul play, to be clear.
Understood. I agree with you that the DNC does not want progressive candidates, although I do think that the writing was on the wall pretty early (before Super Tuesday) for every other moderate candidate becoming irrelevant in the Democratic primary. While Buttigieg performed well in Iowa and NH, it had been already established that he had virtually no non-white support; it was all but predestined that this was going to be Sanders vs. Biden, and that if the moderates wanted one of their own to win, the best strategy was to not pull from Biden's voter base. It's frustrating, but I'm not particularly surprised that the DNC keeps fielding moderates because 1. The DNC is mostly moderate and 2. The Democratic party is mostly moderate.
I'd argue the Democrats are mostly conservative, but yes, I think this was always going to be Bernie vs. WhoeverTheDNCDecided
EDIT: I also want to offhandedly bitch that a state like SOUTH CAROLINA that will definitely vote Republican is weighed so highly, lol. America's system just kind of sucks as a whole though, I guess.
Oh, definitely... American moderates are really conservatives in most other first-world countries afaik. And I don't know if there's a better setup for the primary than that. Any ideas?
EPT
