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On May 16 2018 05:05 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The more I read, the more I wonder, who decided that the opening date of already inflammatory opening of a new US embassy to Jerusalem, would be on Nakba Day, a day when palestinians would traditionally remember their loss and protest? I can only imagine whoever decided that this was appropriate, on both the US and Isreali side, decided on purpose to open the embassy on this day to deliberately insult the palestinians and to mercilessly mock them for their complete lack of power in the face of ethnic cleansing.
The clear intent was to throw some gas on the flames. They want this situation resolved and they are happy to bait Palestinians into being somewhat aggressive so Israel can blow up a school or 3. Trump is clearly on board with the idea of just baiting Palestinians into war and then letting Israel gun them all down.
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On May 16 2018 05:54 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Who are these liberals you keep refering to GH? I don't think this is an liberal vs illiberal issue.
Perhaps you missed the deafening silence from pretty much the entire Democratic party yesterday, save a handful of people making their objections clear and some saying that this was Trump's fault, as if decades of US policy didn't inevitably lead us here. Like the near universal agreement in Congress about putting the embassy there hasn't always been problematic or that the US was a neutral broker until Trump came along.
Look at any of the articles from liberal outlets, they are all laser focused on how this is all Trump's fault and virtually nothing about the top ranking Democrat in government congratulating him or the role Democrats have played in all of this.
I have to say though, that seeing more people vocally object to the slaughtering of Palestinian people and recognizing the absurdity of the 'self-defense' argument gives me hope. Though the politicians that are still silent (beyond blaming Trump) doesn't surprise me much.
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On May 15 2018 01:58 zlefin wrote:
mohdoo, can you point to a nation wiling to accept those 4 million refugees? if not, then your point doesn't counter mine at all.
Israel woudln't stop the palestinians from leaving if someone would take them; because it takes the problem off their hands.
That is the main issue at hand there. I feel like that would be a difficult transition to make there.
I guess Britain thinks that the US needs to understand the specifics of the Israel-Palestine conflict to a better degree than they do now. I don't know if that's possible because it's in the news (WSJ, NYT, National Review, etc) just about every day, so those issues are talked about constantly. I feel like they have a pretty good grasp of what's going on in that neck of the woods.
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/uk-israel-us-needs-greater-understanding-palestinians
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On May 16 2018 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 05:54 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Who are these liberals you keep refering to GH? I don't think this is an liberal vs illiberal issue. Perhaps you missed the deafening silence from pretty much the entire Democratic party yesterday, save a handful of people making their objections clear and some saying that this was Trump's fault, as if decades of US policy didn't inevitably lead us here. Like the near universal agreement in Congress about putting the embassy there hasn't always been problematic or that the US was a neutral broker until Trump came along. Look at any of the articles from liberal outlets, they are all laser focused on how this is all Trump's fault and virtually nothing about the top ranking Democrat in government congratulating him or the role Democrats have played in all of this. I have to say though, that seeing more people vocally object to the slaughtering of Palestinian people and recognizing the absurdity of the 'self-defense' argument gives me hope. Though the politicians that are still silent (beyond blaming Trump) doesn't surprise me much.
It's the typical problem of not looking into any problems and just blaming the other side. It happens a lot in politics everywhere, but it gets worse if your two political parties are basically cults.
https://www.democracynow.org/2018/5/15/gazan_writer_protesters_are_seeking_freedom
But speaking of the Gazan protest, virtually everybody I know in Gaza, almost all my friends, are going there to the front lines. And the problem that pushes them to the wall is that life at the refugee camps, they experience death thousands of times a day, while at the borders they either break free or they die for once. The point is that people are trying to undertake a mass jailbreak out of what David Cameron, the prime minister of—the former prime minister of Britain, called an “open-air prison,” what a Haaretz editorial calls a “Palestinian ghetto,” and what Israeli distinguished scholar Baruch Kimmerling calls “the largest concentration camp ever to exist.”
Well, for the Gaza Strip, what you have is, as Harvard scholar Sara Roy calls, 2 million people, most of whom who are children, are being slowly poisoned by the water they drink and the soil on which they plant. Moreover, those 2 million people are not allowed—virtually, not allowed to leave at all. Gaza is completely sealed from sea, air and land.
There are two border crossings that are almost virtually permanently closed. The Israeli border crossing, only about 500 people could manage to leave Gaza annually. If you put that into numbers, that’s absolutely nothing of the population. The Egyptian border crossing is far more disappointing and disheartening. It opens three days a month, at most. That’s the best of it. Last year, it opened about 14 days in the entire year. And when it opens, Palestinians experience endless waiting, suffocating heat, blackmail, and detention in rottening cells. What you have on the Rafah border crossing, from my own experience, is waiting for at least 18 months to come out of it. Then you are brought to this room of the Egyptian side of the border. You sleep there the whole night. Every 10 minutes, an Egyptian officer would come out and announce another name, and that name would be thrown back to Gaza without further explanation. And you absolutely don’t want to be the next one. So you would do anything at all not to be sent back into prison.
And the easiest way to get out is paying a bribe between $2,000 to $10,000. If you put that in proportion with the Palestinian GDP in Gaza per capita, it’s completely unaffordable. People, absolutely—70 percent of the population are unemployable—not only unemployed, there are no opportunities. You have an economy that is completely compromised and destroyed. You don’t have any person who could afford that amount of money, except for very few exceptions. This is called the coordinated passages. If you pay that amount, you could easily come out of Gaza. Otherwise, you would sleep there at least for one or two days in that room, detained, until you get your name sent back to Gaza.
And then, if you, by divine intervention, manage to break out of the siege and your name is accepted for departure, you will be sent in transit, in buses shuttled to the borders, to the airport directly, the Cairo International Airport, like a detainee or prisoner. On the way, you have at least tens, if not hundreds, of checkpoints, military checkpoints, in the Sinai Peninsula. And at each one of them, you are stopped, inspected, kicked out of the bus. Your bags are emptied, looted. Whatever they please, they could take. And then you proceed to the next one. And they are highly specialized at each checkpoint. At the airport, you are deposited in what is called the transit room, which is basically an underground prison cell. It has a door handle from the outside, not from the inside. When you go inside it, you will have absolutely nothing. They take all your electronic devices. They take your bags. They just send you in to sleep on rottening mattresses, until your flight is due.
And for people to come in, basically, Israel denies entry for virtually any person who’s trying to come to Gaza, with very limited exceptions of press personnel with press credentials, international NGOs, high officials, etc., etc. But there has been many cases where Israel denied entry for even the highest ranks in the United Nations. If you take, for instance, the high commissioner of human rights, Zeid bin Ra’ad, he was denied entry into Gaza several times. If you take the diplomatic missions in the West Bank, the European diplomatic missions, I know many of the representatives there who were never allowed to Gaza except once in their entire servitude.
You really need to get the story from Gazans in order to understand where they are coming from. You cannot hold back a mindset like that with bullets. You need to give them freedom, only that will stop the conflict. It'll be messy, but you can't reasonably expect 2 million people to just sit around in poverty in their open air prison. That's absurd. That's not two million terrorists you have there.
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On May 16 2018 06:11 A3th3r wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2018 01:58 zlefin wrote:
mohdoo, can you point to a nation wiling to accept those 4 million refugees? if not, then your point doesn't counter mine at all.
Israel woudln't stop the palestinians from leaving if someone would take them; because it takes the problem off their hands. That is the main issue at hand there. I feel like that would be a difficult transition to make there. I guess Britain thinks that the US needs to understand the specifics of the Israel-Palestine conflict to a better degree than they do now. I don't know if that's possible because it's in the news (WSJ, NYT, National Review, etc) just about every day, so those issues are talked about constantly. I feel like they have a pretty good grasp of what's going on in that neck of the woods. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/uk-israel-us-needs-greater-understanding-palestinians
issues can be in the news constantly and people still have a poor understanding of them. the news tends to be less about a thoughtful examination of the problem than something sensationalistic; and it's very easy and common for people to just look at the more sensationalist articles and not the more informative but boring ones.
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On May 09 2018 18:34 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2018 17:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
But as to the 'funding' part, my understanding is pretty basic, but it boils down to what appears to be huge cash transfers (maybe gold as well) to Iran that would allow them to fund their military exploits without having to go through European banks or whatever to access the money. Essentially giving them invisible money to continue conflicts relatively untracked.
The US's excuses don't pass the smell test as to why they had no choice but to pay in cash instead of wiring money to accounts where they would have to account for what the money was being spent on. Couldn't just cut a check from the account for 10 suicide bombers or something, but you can do that with a pile of cash and/or gold.
Then you get to the part from mozu about it certainly looking like that cash got used the way it wasn't supposed to be.
That's how 'removing sanctions' becomes 'funding their conflicts' basically. Most of the Iranian frozen assets do not directly belong to the Iranian government and would not go into its budget. Also most of it is frozen in Asia, not in the US and EU. It's difficult to quantify how much would restoring access to those funds affect "Iran's proxy war capability", but I wouldn't bet it's particularly significant. For example I don't see how anyone could claim in good faith that the assets of the Central Bank of Iran would be moved to the military budget, it doesn't actually belong to the government in that way.
Like this:
Though I'm not sure it meets the 'good faith' qualification.
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On May 16 2018 05:46 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 05:40 RenSC2 wrote:
Do you think the media may have manipulated you? It's not the first time I've heard this. Why is that? Is there some reason why the media suddenly hates Israel in this theory?
US Media tends to be very pro-Israel as GH has noted. However, I'm noticing a lot of anti-Israel stuff from Europe with very odd slants. The most recent example which I called out is attributing malice to the chosen opening day for the new embassy in Jerusalem.
I'm assuming Dangermousecatdog got the Nakba Day information from a news source of some sort. Did that same source also mention that it was the 70th anniversary of the founding of Israel? Or did it mention what Nakba day actually is (a mourning/protest of the founding of Israel that started in 1998)? Someone probably left that part off or else it'd be very easy to realize that the chosen date was about the celebration of the founding of Israel, not about malice towards some ancient Islamic holiday. It'd be like starting a native American day of mourning on the 4th of July and then saying it was disrespectful and malicious for anyone to celebrate the 4th of July because it's a day of mourning for the Native Americans.
I've noticed an anti-semitic wave washing through Europe over the last decade or two. It would not be surprising to see news organizations inciting people with inflammatory information to sell more papers. Unfortunately, it goes hand-in-hand. News plays to the base which starts to show some anti-semitic tendencies by taking an anti-jewish slant, then the news article further exasperates those anti-semitic tendencies in the base.
A lot of similar things are happening in US media, though again, typically not towards Jewish people here.
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On May 16 2018 06:42 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 05:46 Nebuchad wrote:On May 16 2018 05:40 RenSC2 wrote:
Do you think the media may have manipulated you? It's not the first time I've heard this. Why is that? Is there some reason why the media suddenly hates Israel in this theory? US Media tends to be very pro-Israel as GH has noted. However, I'm noticing a lot of anti-Israel stuff from Europe with very odd slants. The most recent example which I called out is attributing malice to the chosen opening day for the new embassy in Jerusalem. I'm assuming Dangermousecatdog got the Nakba Day information from a news source of some sort. Did that same source also mention that it was the 70th anniversary of the founding of Israel? Or did it mention what Nakba day actually is (a mourning/protest of the founding of Israel that started in 1998)? Someone probably left that part off or else it'd be very easy to realize that the chosen date was about the celebration of the founding of Israel, not about malice towards some ancient Islamic holiday. It'd be like starting a native American day of mourning on the 4th of July and then saying it was disrespectful and malicious for anyone to celebrate the 4th of July because it's a day of mourning for the Native Americans. I've noticed an anti-semitic wave washing through Europe over the last decade or two. It would not be surprising to see news organizations inciting people with inflammatory information to sell more papers. Unfortunately, it goes hand-in-hand. News plays to the base which starts to show some anti-semitic tendencies by taking an anti-jewish slant, then the news article further exasperates those anti-semitic tendencies in the base. A lot of similar things are happening in US media, though again, typically not towards Jewish people here.
The idea that reporting in Europe has an anti-Semitic slant is palpably laughable.
Regarding Nakba, Is there anything factually incorrect about the fact that land was taken from a people? This isn't an argument for the veracity of it, there is no point to that at this stage. But we can acknowledge that this event did occur.
What would you do if that happened to you ? Throw a party? Cut some cake? Celebrate that someone else is living in your home?
The general point being made is that given the situation and given the contentious nature of the act itself and doing it on a contentious day to boot, its not a stretch to make that assertion that it is basically a fuck you just as much as it was celebration. Given what we know of Drumpf and Likud, that becomes even more likely.
Also your parallel is deeply flawed, the 4th of July has unfortunately little to do with Native Americans, you had fucked them over well before that. But given the grasp of history i see in your commentary that's largely unsurprising
+ Show Spoiler + On a side note, given some of the study of some Hebrew related history for my Major, I take personal exception to the term Semite applying to Jews specifically given how circuitous it is, but my God is it hard to fight a convention that has been so firmly established. To the degree that pointing out that not all Semites are Jew's is in itself considered anti-Semitic.
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On May 16 2018 06:42 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 05:46 Nebuchad wrote:On May 16 2018 05:40 RenSC2 wrote:
Do you think the media may have manipulated you? It's not the first time I've heard this. Why is that? Is there some reason why the media suddenly hates Israel in this theory? I've noticed an anti-semitic wave washing through Europe over the last decade or two. It would not be surprising to see news organizations inciting people with inflammatory information to sell more papers. Unfortunately, it goes hand-in-hand. News plays to the base which starts to show some anti-semitic tendencies by taking an anti-jewish slant, then the news article further exasperates those anti-semitic tendencies in the base.
Is everyone okay with that happening? Where are the disgruntled journalists disgusted that we're feeding the flames of antisemitism to make money?
Perhaps more importantly, I'm sure you have also noticed a raise in anti-muslim sentiment in Europe over the last decade or two. What do you think would sell more in Europe these days, inflammatory information against Israel or inflammatory information against the muslims they're fighting?
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Remind me if in the bizarre future if the left overtakes the country and repeals the 2nd amendment to tell the people complaining about it "Sorry, you lost. Unless you're a hunter, give em up or the army shoots you." Or any other equivalent for whatever faction somebody ascribes to. Because that's basically what's happening.
Beyond this, I can't really participate in this discussion anymore. I grew up in a *highly* jewish area. My dad went to the same highschool as Netanyahu. I went there later. I knew people that were *itching* for senior year to end so they could run off and join the IDF. I know people, currently, whose parents got the fuck out of Palestine as soon as they found out they were expecting, because they didn't want their kids to live in the hell their country was becoming.
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On May 16 2018 07:03 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 06:42 RenSC2 wrote:On May 16 2018 05:46 Nebuchad wrote:On May 16 2018 05:40 RenSC2 wrote:
Do you think the media may have manipulated you? It's not the first time I've heard this. Why is that? Is there some reason why the media suddenly hates Israel in this theory? I've noticed an anti-semitic wave washing through Europe over the last decade or two. It would not be surprising to see news organizations inciting people with inflammatory information to sell more papers. Unfortunately, it goes hand-in-hand. News plays to the base which starts to show some anti-semitic tendencies by taking an anti-jewish slant, then the news article further exasperates those anti-semitic tendencies in the base. Is everyone okay with that happening? Where are the disgruntled journalists disgusted that we're feeding the flames of antisemitism to make money? Perhaps more importantly, I'm sure you have also noticed a raise in anti-muslim sentiment in Europe over the last decade or two. What do you think would sell more in Europe these days, inflammatory information against Israel or inflammatory information against the muslims they're fighting?
I know of at least one American Zionist who is the main funder for what is effectively the national-socialist anti-Muslim party in my country. Quite frankly, if you're willing to call the alt-right nazis, you can call the Zionists that as well.
So yeah. That's where we're at now.
That's not to excuse the notion that we're effectively importing anti-semitism as we import Muslims though. It's just like with terrorism. This shit bleeds over everywhere. Invade a nation, cause a huge wave of terrorism against the invaders (the collective West - thanks America). Oppress millions of people, create huge waves of hatred for those doing the oppressing. And thanks to globalism, everybody gets to partake in it.
And somewhere in this cycle, there's me and you, what are we prepared to do...? Well, clearly we must deny that it is our policies that sets up the scenario in which terrorists continue to find people willing to join their cause. In greater numbers every time time significant events take place.
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Trump's Chinese bribes constitute high crimes, and he should be put up for an impeachment investigation.
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On May 16 2018 06:42 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 05:46 Nebuchad wrote:On May 16 2018 05:40 RenSC2 wrote:
Do you think the media may have manipulated you? It's not the first time I've heard this. Why is that? Is there some reason why the media suddenly hates Israel in this theory? US Media tends to be very pro-Israel as GH has noted. However, I'm noticing a lot of anti-Israel stuff from Europe with very odd slants. The most recent example which I called out is attributing malice to the chosen opening day for the new embassy in Jerusalem. I'm assuming Dangermousecatdog got the Nakba Day information from a news source of some sort. Did that same source also mention that it was the 70th anniversary of the founding of Israel? Or did it mention what Nakba day actually is (a mourning/protest of the founding of Israel that started in 1998)? Someone probably left that part off or else it'd be very easy to realize that the chosen date was about the celebration of the founding of Israel, not about malice towards some ancient Islamic holiday. It'd be like starting a native American day of mourning on the 4th of July and then saying it was disrespectful and malicious for anyone to celebrate the 4th of July because it's a day of mourning for the Native Americans. I've noticed an anti-semitic wave washing through Europe over the last decade or two. It would not be surprising to see news organizations inciting people with inflammatory information to sell more papers. Unfortunately, it goes hand-in-hand. News plays to the base which starts to show some anti-semitic tendencies by taking an anti-jewish slant, then the news article further exasperates those anti-semitic tendencies in the base. A lot of similar things are happening in US media, though again, typically not towards Jewish people here.
Look, if you announce that you move the embassy to Jerusalem, because that should be the capital of Israel, and then you do it on the day that both parties have chosen to be their day, you do it full knowing that it will not sit well with the Palestineans. You chose sides and now you show everyone, which side you prefer. If you know the day has significance, you don't use it. Trump is using his patented strategy of stirring up shit intentionally and then seeing what happens. I hope he knows that he can't but sanctions on Gaza and that twittering at them does not bring them to the table...
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On May 16 2018 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 05:54 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Who are these liberals you keep refering to GH? I don't think this is an liberal vs illiberal issue. Perhaps you missed the deafening silence from pretty much the entire Democratic party yesterday, save a handful of people making their objections clear and some saying that this was Trump's fault, as if decades of US policy didn't inevitably lead us here. Like the near universal agreement in Congress about putting the embassy there hasn't always been problematic or that the US was a neutral broker until Trump came along. Look at any of the articles from liberal outlets, they are all laser focused on how this is all Trump's fault and virtually nothing about the top ranking Democrat in government congratulating him or the role Democrats have played in all of this. I have to say though, that seeing more people vocally object to the slaughtering of Palestinian people and recognizing the absurdity of the 'self-defense' argument gives me hope. Though the politicians that are still silent (beyond blaming Trump) doesn't surprise me much.
Liberals ≠ Democratic party in grown up language, unless I missed something particular about American usage.
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On May 16 2018 06:42 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 05:46 Nebuchad wrote:On May 16 2018 05:40 RenSC2 wrote:
Do you think the media may have manipulated you? It's not the first time I've heard this. Why is that? Is there some reason why the media suddenly hates Israel in this theory? US Media tends to be very pro-Israel as GH has noted. However, I'm noticing a lot of anti-Israel stuff from Europe with very odd slants. The most recent example which I called out is attributing malice to the chosen opening day for the new embassy in Jerusalem. I'm assuming Dangermousecatdog got the Nakba Day information from a news source of some sort. Did that same source also mention that it was the 70th anniversary of the founding of Israel? Or did it mention what Nakba day actually is (a mourning/protest of the founding of Israel that started in 1998)? Someone probably left that part off or else it'd be very easy to realize that the chosen date was about the celebration of the founding of Israel, not about malice towards some ancient Islamic holiday. It'd be like starting a native American day of mourning on the 4th of July and then saying it was disrespectful and malicious for anyone to celebrate the 4th of July because it's a day of mourning for the Native Americans. I've noticed an anti-semitic wave washing through Europe over the last decade or two. It would not be surprising to see news organizations inciting people with inflammatory information to sell more papers. Unfortunately, it goes hand-in-hand. News plays to the base which starts to show some anti-semitic tendencies by taking an anti-jewish slant, then the news article further exasperates those anti-semitic tendencies in the base. A lot of similar things are happening in US media, though again, typically not towards Jewish people here.
with news like this:
Israeli forces kill two Palestinians near border as Gaza buries dead
GAZA-ISRAEL BORDER (Reuters) - Palestinians buried the dead on Tuesday from the bloodiest day in Gaza in years, after Israeli forces killed 60 Palestinians near the Gaza-Israel border during demonstrations against the opening of the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem.
Israeli forces shot dead two more Palestinians on Tuesday, although protests were quieter than the previous day. It appeared that many protesters had gone to mourning tents rather than back to the scene of Monday’s bloodshed. Mourners marched through the strip, waving Palestinian flags and calling for revenge.
[...]
On the Israeli side of the border, Israeli sharpshooters took up positions to stop any attempted breach of the fence should demonstrations break out again. Tanks were also deployed.
[...]
Netanyahu blamed Hamas for provoking the violence. “They’re pushing civilians – women, children – into the line of fire with a view of getting casualties. We try to minimize casualties. They’re trying to incur casualties in order to put pressure on Israel, which is horrible,” Netanyahu told CBS News.
you do make it hard on journalists to not make it sound harsh though...
and on the given example, I can say that it being the 70th anniversary was written out in all of the articles I read and I did not know, or hear about Nakba Day until he brought it up. I guess with Breitbart etc you do have these super weird online facebook-news-kinda things nowaday that do push an agenda that plenty of people read nowadays but like I said, all the sources I checked mentioned the 70th anniversary.
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On May 16 2018 08:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 16 2018 05:54 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Who are these liberals you keep refering to GH? I don't think this is an liberal vs illiberal issue. Perhaps you missed the deafening silence from pretty much the entire Democratic party yesterday, save a handful of people making their objections clear and some saying that this was Trump's fault, as if decades of US policy didn't inevitably lead us here. Like the near universal agreement in Congress about putting the embassy there hasn't always been problematic or that the US was a neutral broker until Trump came along. Look at any of the articles from liberal outlets, they are all laser focused on how this is all Trump's fault and virtually nothing about the top ranking Democrat in government congratulating him or the role Democrats have played in all of this. I have to say though, that seeing more people vocally object to the slaughtering of Palestinian people and recognizing the absurdity of the 'self-defense' argument gives me hope. Though the politicians that are still silent (beyond blaming Trump) doesn't surprise me much. Liberals ≠ Democratic party in grown up language, unless I missed something particular about American usage.
Yes, you apparently did. Liberal and Democrat have been synonymous for well over a decade in US nomenclature. I can understand if there's a bit of a 'translation' issue though so if there's a group of liberals outside of the Democratic party you're referencing or if you prefer 'neoliberal' I can adjust accordingly.
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Canada11278 Posts
..I'm at a loss. You alluded to what I presume was Jewish heritage but you don't seem to have a basic grasp of the history adjoining the mass 'migration' you're referencing.
I do not have Jewish heritage. The Mennonites are a people that belong exactly no where. So we ran. Those that didn't, disappeared into the Gulags. As such, I generally like the running option.
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On May 16 2018 09:37 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +..I'm at a loss. You alluded to what I presume was Jewish heritage but you don't seem to have a basic grasp of the history adjoining the mass 'migration' you're referencing. I do not have Jewish heritage. The Mennonites are a people that belong exactly no where. So we ran. Those that didn't, disappeared into the Gulags. As such, I generally like the running option.
I wish you had cared to respond to the post itself rather than that excerpt but that makes a bit more sense now.
In other news:
As predicted, Trump's pick and known war criminal Gina Haspel has all but assured she will be confirmed as head of the CIA with the support of Democrats.
With four Democrats now publicly supporting her nomination, Haspel is all but certain to be confirmed as the first female CIA director in a full Senate vote next week. Senators Joe Manchin, D-W.V., and Joe Donnelly, D-Ind., announced last week they would support Haspel's nomination. Senator Mark Warner, D-Va., who is vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, called his decision "difficult" but ultimately expressed support for Haspel...Minutes after Warner's announcement, Sen. Heidi Heitkamp, of North Dakota, also endorsed Haspel.
www.cbsnews.com
If Democrats can't unite on not giving Trump his first pick for torturer in charge of the CIA, they aren't worth calling Democrats/opposition party imo.
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United States41985 Posts
On May 16 2018 04:38 RenSC2 wrote:
I think the IDF has made it abundantly clear what they will do to people who cross the line in the sand. They don’t consider losses on their side as acceptable and so they don’t take chances. You don’t go to their base to protest, you go there to fight or die as a martyr. That guy in the wheelchair went there to die. If he wanted a peaceful life, he wouldn’t be there throwing stones.
The US has tried to be more humane, and it hasn’t bought us anything in Iraq or Afghanistan or other places around the world. If the American soldiers holding assault rifles at the embassy in Benghazi were willing to open fire, would we even remember the name Benghazi? Instead, they were worried about opening fire and Americans died for it. Maybe that is acceptable to you guys, but it is not to me.
If you want to protest, that is okay, but stay behind the line and hold flowers, signs, or something else non-lethal. If people around you are acting up, leave, they’re trying to use you as a human shield. Hurling rocks and fire is not okay and you should expect to be met with harsh retribution.
There is no peaceful life in Gaza. There are no jobs, no economy, no goods, no hope. It's a concentration camp with Israeli soldiers on the walls and every year the camp gets smaller.
They can't just return to their peaceful lives and leave the poor concentration camp guards alone, they don't have lives. The protesters are not the aggressors here.
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On May 16 2018 06:42 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 05:46 Nebuchad wrote:On May 16 2018 05:40 RenSC2 wrote:
Do you think the media may have manipulated you? It's not the first time I've heard this. Why is that? Is there some reason why the media suddenly hates Israel in this theory? US Media tends to be very pro-Israel as GH has noted. However, I'm noticing a lot of anti-Israel stuff from Europe with very odd slants. The most recent example which I called out is attributing malice to the chosen opening day for the new embassy in Jerusalem. I'm assuming Dangermousecatdog got the Nakba Day information from a news source of some sort. Did that same source also mention that it was the 70th anniversary of the founding of Israel? Or did it mention what Nakba day actually is (a mourning/protest of the founding of Israel that started in 1998)? Someone probably left that part off or else it'd be very easy to realize that the chosen date was about the celebration of the founding of Israel, not about malice towards some ancient Islamic holiday. It'd be like starting a native American day of mourning on the 4th of July and then saying it was disrespectful and malicious for anyone to celebrate the 4th of July because it's a day of mourning for the Native Americans. I've noticed an anti-semitic wave washing through Europe over the last decade or two. It would not be surprising to see news organizations inciting people with inflammatory information to sell more papers. Unfortunately, it goes hand-in-hand. News plays to the base which starts to show some anti-semitic tendencies by taking an anti-jewish slant, then the news article further exasperates those anti-semitic tendencies in the base. A lot of similar things are happening in US media, though again, typically not towards Jewish people here.
Just briefly, what a load of crap this is.
First. It's not "anti-israel" if a newspaper (or any sane person, actually) attributes malice to the date chosen. First of all, it's not entirely on Israel to decide that date, and second of all, yes, if you willingly accept that many people will die, to peddle to a crooked right wing nutjob, malice isn't the last thing that springs to mind. Btw, because i agree that it's not inherently clear, with the crooked right wing nutjob, i mean Netanyahu.
Second of all, the embassy wasn't moved in how many administrations? Was it really necessary to open it on the day where you know there's already a powderkeg brewing?
Not a single reputable european newspaper (i don't know about obscure bullshit like Infowars or their swedish equivalent, but that's not what you're talking about) is "peddling inflammatory anti-jewish information". I should know, i lived in multiple european countries in the last three decades.
You're the core of the Israel/Palestine problem. You conflate two different things, and in fact, that's what's happening in european media. You can not criticise Israel without being marked as antisemite, or literally Hitler. That's what's actually happening. As long as this is a problem (and it factually is a problem), no solution other than 100% genocide of palestinians will be found. Why? I'm glad you're asking.
Because Israel, contrary to popular belief, is not just a victim. Don't get me wrong, i'm german, i know more about jewish history for the last 75 years than i know of american history, i understand where they were(!) coming from. They were in fact victims. Not just once. That does not mean that they get a blanco cheque to do the same now. Israel is commiting humanitarian crimes by the dozens, and created for all intents and purposes the biggest concentration camp the world has ever seen. Not just that, they kill palestinians indiscriminately and justify it as "retribution", they partially block medical supplies, food, clothings, quality of life items like fridges to get into gaza, and the list goes on all the way down to a continuing settlement policy that defies any international law.
These are facts, not "anti Israeli remarks". I said in my first posting, i do understand that Israel needs to protect that border fence. If people fuck with it, kill them. That's fine. The problem arises if the sense of proportion gets lost, which is what's happening. A glorified new years rocket that didn't kill, not even injure an Israeli sparks a raid into a town covered by tanks loaded with M1028 shot (to be clear, that's ammo that turns your 120mm merkava tank gun into a 120mm shotgun, indiscriminately obliterating everything that's remotely in the direction it's firing, as was experienced by a western journalist - it literally is a 60 pound birdshot fired from a tank gun)? Raids on innocent peoples homes, then putting them on trial for slapping a trespassing soldier who's covered by many others - and while you're at it, include the mother as well?
That's just a fraction of what's happening down there. And again, i agree that Israel has a right to self defense if it's attacked, like any other country. That's not the reality in Gaza, currently they're as much aggressor as palestinians, so they should absolutely be criticised the same way. They're in the position of power, nothing comes even close to be able to touch them there.
To get back to the point, as long as you're not allowed to criticise these (very factual) things, you will not get them to stop. Again, defense yes, but not disproportionate.
If anything, western media is way too easy on Israel. Fun fact, everyone (even here) is talking about "snipers taking out targets". I don't know about you, i did shoot a sniper rifle in my time in the army, and i'd have a very hard time injuring more than a thousand people with bullets to take out 50. Does that sound right to you? Even if you assume that every bullet hit two people (highly unlikely already), that's still 500 rounds fired, to take out 50 (of which many were just protesters, not terrorists). Out of semi automatic rifles at best.
Note, i not once talked about jewish people. I don't have jewish friends, not because i don't want to but because i simply never actually met one (consciously). I have zero problems with 90% of Israelis, in fact i do think that their way of life is preferable (cause more compatible) to, lets say, modern day Irans. But if we criticise terrorists on one side, we absolutely have to call out the same on the other side too - and that constantly gets prevented by calling it "antisemitic remarks".
edit: whoopsie, wasn't just briefly, but had to get that of my chest since i'm so fucking tired of the narrative that everyone who doesn't support israel unconditionally has to have an antisemitic slant, as you put it.
edit2: bit incoherent and ranty, apologies for that
We try to minimize casualties. They’re trying to incur casualties in order to put pressure on Israel, which is horrible,” Netanyahu told CBS News.
As a sidenote, this here is another thing Netanyahu said.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Wednesday that he supports pardoning Elor Azaria, the soldier convicted earlier in the day of shooting dead a prone Palestinian assailant in Hebron last year.
"I support a pardon for Elor Azaria," the prime minister said in a short statement. “This is a difficult and painful day for all of us - and first and foremost for Elor and his family, for IDF soldiers, for many soldiers and for the parents of our soldiers, and me among them."
Netanyahu called on the public to react with responsibility to the IDF, its officers and the chief of staff. "We have one army, which is the basis of our existence. The soldiers of the IDF are our sons and daughters, and they need to remain above dispute.”
That's him talking about a war criminal who executed a surrendering and injured palestinian on the ground. If you don't obey to rules of engagement, you absolutely have no right to ask for support because the other side doesn't do it either. The sentence he got btw was shorter (even before pardoning part of it) than the 16 year old girl that smacked the trespassing soldier. Proportion is important.
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