EPThttps://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-say-baby-killed-by-tear-gas-among-58-gaza-dead/ bringing your baby to a boarder protest also seems like a bad idea, unless you don't care so much about you baby and more for the optics of it.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 201
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Taelshin
Canada417 Posts
https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-say-baby-killed-by-tear-gas-among-58-gaza-dead/ bringing your baby to a boarder protest also seems like a bad idea, unless you don't care so much about you baby and more for the optics of it. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9512 Posts
On May 16 2018 04:20 Taelshin wrote: Throwing rocks at armed soldier's on an extremely hot border seems like a good way to get shot. They were doing this for the publicity and as XdauntX said, the IDF gave it to them. https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-say-baby-killed-by-tear-gas-among-58-gaza-dead/ bringing your baby to a boarder protest also seems like a bad idea, unless you don't care so much about you baby and more for the optics of it. These are the exact arguments any dictator would use for gunning down their own people. "We made it clear they would die for protesting, its not our fault they protested at us. They gave us no choice." They have as much right to protest as anyone else in the world the way they have been treated, you can't say its their fault for being there when their oppressors opened fire. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
The equivalent would be Germany blockading Belgium from all sides and then firing on every Belgian guy who tries to make it out. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On May 15 2018 22:33 GreenHorizons wrote: No, I don't. I get the impression that the Jewish population of Israel is quite attached to the land they were 'gifted' and that which they have stolen outright. Now would you care to answer my question? Your question is invalid. You asked '... if the Jewish people are only there on the will of countries... etc'. That is not the case. The Israelis want to be there. The fact someone else helped put them there in the first place is a complete irrelevance to the situation at hand. If you wind the clocks back, were the Jewish settlers forced to go there at gunpoint? Did they protest and say 'we don't want this land, please don't put us here'? I don't think that's how it went down. Your entire premise is flawed. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 16 2018 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: These are the exact arguments any dictator would use for gunning down their own people. "We made it clear they would die for protesting, its not our fault they protested at us. They gave us no choice." They have as much right to protest as anyone else in the world the way they have been treated, you can't say its their fault for being there when their oppressors opened fire. Yeah that's the point, the attitude [that protesters were responsible and the violence from IDF justified] is ridiculous because it effectively justifies the most stringent authoritarian rule by excusing violently squashing the only citizen controlled form of protecting democracy. | ||
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RenSC2
United States1050 Posts
The US has tried to be more humane, and it hasn’t bought us anything in Iraq or Afghanistan or other places around the world. If the American soldiers holding assault rifles at the embassy in Benghazi were willing to open fire, would we even remember the name Benghazi? Instead, they were worried about opening fire and Americans died for it. Maybe that is acceptable to you guys, but it is not to me. If you want to protest, that is okay, but stay behind the line and hold flowers, signs, or something else non-lethal. If people around you are acting up, leave, they’re trying to use you as a human shield. Hurling rocks and fire is not okay and you should expect to be met with harsh retribution. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Looking at the pictures, there are border gates, which are hundreds of meters away from the wall, protected by concrete towers and impossible to ever be threatened, and other parts less protected by fences but soldiers are high and far away enough by banks that they can not ever be threatened by a man powered rock. Have you guys looked at the pictures? The Palestinian protesters are not threatening "bases" or "military instalations", they are nowhere near the Isreali bases, they are being shot at on their side of the wall. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 16 2018 04:38 RenSC2 wrote: I think the IDF has made it abundantly clear what they will do to people who cross the line in the sand. They don’t consider losses on their side as acceptable and so they don’t take chances. You don’t go to their base to protest, you go there to fight or die as a martyr. That guy in the wheelchair went there to die. If he wanted a peaceful life, he wouldn’t be there throwing stones. The US has tried to be more humane, and it hasn’t bought us anything in Iraq or Afghanistan or other places around the world. If the American soldiers holding assault rifles at the embassy in Benghazi were willing to open fire, would we even remember the name Benghazi? Instead, they were worried about opening fire and Americans died for it. Maybe that is acceptable to you guys, but it is not to me. If you want to protest, that is okay, but stay behind the line and hold flowers, signs, or something else non-lethal. If people around you are acting up, leave, they’re trying to use you as a human shield. Hurling rocks and fire is not okay and you should expect to be met with harsh retribution. Better put the military on the National Mall then to protect the people, and we don't want to take any chances of losing American soldiers so they should be ready to respond with force. | ||
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Kickboxer
Slovenia1308 Posts
I'm not a fan of the Middle Eastern people as a contemporary cultural phenomenon, but there's zero reason for the obscenely rich and burly Israeli not to treat the poor bastards with some dignity and respect, really. I'm pretty sure they collectively believe they are better than the rest of humanity. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 16 2018 04:20 Taelshin wrote: Throwing rocks at armed soldier's on an extremely hot border seems like a good way to get shot. They were doing this for the publicity and as XdauntX said, the IDF gave it to them. https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-say-baby-killed-by-tear-gas-among-58-gaza-dead/ bringing your baby to a boarder protest also seems like a bad idea, unless you don't care so much about you baby and more for the optics of it. People in the US are well aware that throwing rocks as soldiers is a good way to get shot. Didn't slow us down. | ||
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
On May 16 2018 04:44 Kickboxer wrote: To me it seems like the Israelis are straight up Nazi. They way they talk about Palestinians, it's like they are dogs not people. Complete dehumanization. No wonder they treat them this way, too, but it really hints at why people have hated and persecuted the Jews for millennia. I'm not a fan of the Middle Eastern people as a contemporary cultural phenomenon, but there's zero reason for the obscenely rich and burly Israeli not to treat the poor bastards with some dignity and respect, really. I'm pretty sure they collectively believe they are better than the rest of humanity. Ethnostates gonna ethnostate. Establishing and maintaining a state ethnicity necessarily requires violence (check out every ethnostate attempt throughout human history, confederate states of america, early zionist israel, germany, italy, japan, etc.). We give Israel a pass on the general moral appropriation we have against ethnostates because Jews have an empirically demonstrable claim that Jews wouldn't be safe in the middle east withotu some kind of special protection (check out the massacres and expulsions before and after the 1948 arab israeli war). This results in a shitty status quo where we all kind of bite our tongues and Israel slides deeper into the ethnostate morass. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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farvacola
United States18820 Posts
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Mercy13
United States718 Posts
On May 16 2018 04:44 Kickboxer wrote: To me it seems like the Israelis are straight up Nazi. They way they talk about Palestinians, it's like they are dogs not people. Complete dehumanization. No wonder they treat them this way, too, but it really hints at why people have hated and persecuted the Jews for millennia. I'm not a fan of the Middle Eastern people as a contemporary cultural phenomenon, but there's zero reason for the obscenely rich and burly Israeli not to treat the poor bastards with some dignity and respect, really. I'm pretty sure they collectively believe they are better than the rest of humanity. Wait what now? The reason for the historical persecution of Jews is because of Israel's shittiness towards Palestinians? I hope you're not implying that Jews as a people are more prone to dehumanizing other ethnic groups... | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 16 2018 04:44 Kickboxer wrote: To me it seems like the Israelis are straight up Nazi. They way they talk about Palestinians, it's like they are dogs not people. Complete dehumanization. No wonder they treat them this way, too, but it really hints at why people have hated and persecuted the Jews for millennia. Except Jews were persecuted long before Israël existed, so your point is refuted... Also no need to use the nazi hyperbole, colonialism/racism are enough to label the situation. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On May 15 2018 06:09 raga4ka wrote: Netanyahu is no different then Assad really. Yep. And they even have their own thuggish nation backing them up on the UNSC! US blocks United Nations call for independent probe into Gaza deaths The United States blocked a United Nations (UN) Security Council statement drafted Monday that called for an independent investigation into the deaths of at least 58 Palestinians along the Israeli-Gaza border. Monday represented the bloodiest day of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict since Israel's invasion of Gaza in 2014. The unrest coincided with the opening of the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem, a Trump administration directive widely condemned by the international community. I wonder if this particular thuggish nation brought forth their own proposal to investigate the claims of a massacre as they vetoed the proposed one. I really don't understand why people can think one is particularly better than the other. The margins are razor-thin at best. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On May 16 2018 04:42 TheDwf wrote: All those people lecturing Palestinians... while they would probably engage in armed struggle against their oppressor if they were to suffer only 10% of what Palestinians endure. Horrible double standards as usual: justify for others what you would never accept for yourself. palestinians suffer a great deal; they also suffer far less than a LOT of people in far worse straights; and they're certainly not angels themselves (not that that justifies mistreatin gthem, but it does make the solutions harder). also, if you're going to accuse people of double standards; it'd help if you did less assuming about what they'd do, as well as applying to a very nebulous selection of people. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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