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On September 05 2019 23:03 farvacola wrote:
Sure, it doesn’t have to be unique to be indicative, and the timing is part of that equation. Folks up in arms about books that have been out for a long time is part of how the faux-small town religiosity bubble works, it’s as though they are living in a different timeline.
Agreed, the timing is remarkable. The reasoning or why people who think like that are in charge of things are nationwide and longstanding issues though. Too often we focus on the backwater towns as if they are not reflective of the larger community they exist in (the US) imo.
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They aren't reflective of the larger community. They are their own sphere of influence. What happens in podunk Kentucky isn't moving the needle in Louisville. The same with bastions of coastal cities. To extrapolate that a town of 500 is the equivalent in some arbitrary sense, is missing the point entirely.
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On September 05 2019 23:20 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
They aren't reflective of the larger community. They are their own sphere of influence. What happens in podunk Kentucky isn't moving the needle in Louisville. The same with bastions of coastal cities. To extrapolate that a town of 500 is the equivalent in some arbitrary sense, is missing the point entirely.
I'm afraid you missed the point entirely. If you think they don't reflect a larger community (that tried the same nonsense a decade ago) then I understand entirely why you're perplexed as to how someone like that would have a position of authority there or elsewhere.
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Well there are two issues here, there are the insular bubble communities themselves and the rules that provide for the carving out of the space for those bubbles to take shape. The two are related, but distinct, I think, and the latter is the basis for national threads of commonality. Our government/social structures basically provide for the development of these bubbles in a variety of ways, with the state/federal divide being a big one.
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To what outcome did banning Potter books have? Are they still banned? Have all the wizards been rounded up by the vigilant posse of small town farmers turned community leaders? Did they invade all of American sensibility and finally get rid of those dirty witches? Are we safe now from Wiccans? I don't know because I guess my reality is that those people were laughed at and ignored for being the under-educated ignorant individuals they were.
If some small town gets news late because they're rural and don't have the access, or just got access and has become overwhelmed, then I could understand. But I think for the most part, your issues were resolved a while ago and these select, isolated instances of witch/wizard hunting or book banning is just that, isolated. It's a slow news cycle until the next debate or more damage from the hurricane happens.
On September 05 2019 23:33 farvacola wrote:
Well there are two issues here, there are the insular bubble communities themselves and the rules that provide for the carving out of the space for those bubbles to take shape. The two are related, but distinct, I think, and the latter is the basis for national threads of commonality. Our government/social structures basically provide for the development of these bubbles in a variety of ways, with the state/federal divide being a big one.
That's what I'm more focusing on. The insular bubble communities. The large issue at hand, being the way state/federal governments under representing or leaving those small communities to figure society out at their own peril, is what I would like to remedy. I don't want an over-reaching government, but some places and people can't not harm themselves.
It's one, statistically small sample of the overall population (much like a lot of things these days) that just do some amazingly...dumb (for lack of a better word) thing that gets media attention. It'll be forgotten soon.
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On September 05 2019 23:33 farvacola wrote:
Well there are two issues here, there are the insular bubble communities themselves and the rules that provide for the carving out of the space for those bubbles to take shape. The two are related, but distinct, I think, and the latter is the basis for national threads of commonality. Our government/social structures basically provide for the development of these bubbles in a variety of ways, with the state/federal divide being a big one.
The focus on the smaller (usually conservative) communities is what I find detrimental to the discussion. Particularly by attempting to draw a distinction between them and the larger US.
The US is a remarkably insular community which these less connected communities reflect and focusing on what some backwater Christians think misses the systemic issues at play for the sake of belittling them and conservatives in general.
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How is the US an insular community to you? Are you speaking in general or specific parts? Genuine question.
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On September 05 2019 23:56 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
How is the US an insular community to you? Are you speaking in general or specific parts? Genuine question.
How little average people in the US know about the rest of the world (or even cultures they aren't a part of in the US) is rather notorious. EDIT: Pretty sure you made a joke about it recently?
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On September 05 2019 23:59 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2019 23:56 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
How is the US an insular community to you? Are you speaking in general or specific parts? Genuine question. How little average people in the US know about the rest of the world (or even cultures they aren't a part of in the US) is rather notorious.
I see it as them being just uninterested in the rest of the world, but not insular from it. It's not as if they're closing themselves off from the world. They just don't have an interest to know more about it. Geographical and world history is hard to get people to care about these days. If it doesn't happen within the US, then the average person just won't care about it. There's enough news/goings on that they "can't be bothered" with a country across the globe, even if that country is impacting their day to day. It's part laziness and part indifference.
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On September 06 2019 00:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2019 23:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 05 2019 23:56 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
How is the US an insular community to you? Are you speaking in general or specific parts? Genuine question. How little average people in the US know about the rest of the world (or even cultures they aren't a part of in the US) is rather notorious. I see it as them being just uninterested in the rest of the world, but not insular from it. It's not as if they're closing themselves off from the world. They just don't have an interest to know more about it. Geographical and world history is hard to get people to care about these days. If it doesn't happen within the US, then the average person just won't care about it. There's enough news/goings on that they "can't be bothered" with a country across the globe, even if that country is impacting their day to day. It's part laziness and part indifference.
That's the definition of insular?
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On September 06 2019 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2019 00:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On September 05 2019 23:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 05 2019 23:56 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
How is the US an insular community to you? Are you speaking in general or specific parts? Genuine question. How little average people in the US know about the rest of the world (or even cultures they aren't a part of in the US) is rather notorious. I see it as them being just uninterested in the rest of the world, but not insular from it. It's not as if they're closing themselves off from the world. They just don't have an interest to know more about it. Geographical and world history is hard to get people to care about these days. If it doesn't happen within the US, then the average person just won't care about it. There's enough news/goings on that they "can't be bothered" with a country across the globe, even if that country is impacting their day to day. It's part laziness and part indifference. That's the definition of insular?
It's not that they are unwilling, it's that they don't make the effort. You can expose people to new cultures and experiences all the time and they'll be interested in learning more. The way I took you to mean it, was that they closed themselves off completely and didn't want to see or be bothered at all, period, with anything not dealing with the US. I see don't see it that way. I see them just being disinterested because they haven't been exposed. I've done it personally and have seen others do it and people change their views once exposed to it.
You view that the US at large, going by your 'average', are insulated from the outside world is false in that most people live and work in very mixed communities and are exposed to those peoples and cultures on a daily basis. Because it is happening inside the US, in close relation to them, they are not insular. They are indifferent to the places, physically, outside of the US. I could care less about what goes on in Canada or Mexico, but since I'm exposed to the people from there every day, I have a small interest in what happens to them in relation to the US.
Now, to take it back to the small town people and their insular bubbles of communities, they don't get this exposure, so their thinking and views are not based in an actual reality, but from one that they get second or third hand. This in turns leads to the Nashville story and many others around the country. It isn't a reflection of the US at large because the US at large, isn't that way.
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On September 06 2019 00:34 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2019 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2019 00:04 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On September 05 2019 23:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 05 2019 23:56 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
How is the US an insular community to you? Are you speaking in general or specific parts? Genuine question. How little average people in the US know about the rest of the world (or even cultures they aren't a part of in the US) is rather notorious. I see it as them being just uninterested in the rest of the world, but not insular from it. It's not as if they're closing themselves off from the world. They just don't have an interest to know more about it. Geographical and world history is hard to get people to care about these days. If it doesn't happen within the US, then the average person just won't care about it. There's enough news/goings on that they "can't be bothered" with a country across the globe, even if that country is impacting their day to day. It's part laziness and part indifference. That's the definition of insular? It's not that they are unwilling, it's that they don't make the effort. You can expose people to new cultures and experiences all the time and they'll be interested in learning more. The way I took you to mean it, was that they closed themselves off completely and didn't want to see or be bothered at all, period, with anything not dealing with the US. I see don't see it that way. I see them just being disinterested because they haven't been exposed. I've done it personally and have seen others do it and people change their views once exposed to it. You view that the US at large, going by your 'average', are insulated from the outside world is false in that most people live and work in very mixed communities and are exposed to those peoples and cultures on a daily basis. Because it is happening inside the US, in close relation to them, they are not insular. They are indifferent to the places, physically, outside of the US. I could care less about what goes on in Canada or Mexico, but since I'm exposed to the people from there every day, I have a small interest in what happens to them in relation to the US. Now, to take it back to the small town people and their insular bubbles of communities, they don't get this exposure, so their thinking and views are not based in an actual reality, but from one that they get second or third hand. This in turns leads to the Nashville story and many others around the country. It isn't a reflection of the US at large because the US at large, isn't that way.
I meant it literally?
ignorant of or uninterested in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience.
Your example of people caring about what happens in their insular (though vaguely "diverse") community isn't a refutation of my argument but supports it.
Thinking:
people and their insular bubbles of communities, they don't get this exposure, so their thinking and views are not based in an actual reality, but from one that they get second or third hand.
is a small town phenomena (which again is typically used to berate conservatives, but mirrors rhetoric used against indigenous peoples and other marginalized communities) is precisely the issue I'm raising as problematic.
EDIT: If you're simply arguing that remote parts of the country are more isolated and that results in a delay between them and society at large in things like this I already said I agreed with that.
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Why is that a question? That doesn't warrant a '?'.
And how is a mixed community "vaguely diverse"? Are you looking at skin color or nation of origin?
And it isn't a small town phenomena. I didn't say it was. I'm pointing out that you can't take Potter book banning in small towns as a sign that the nation at large is banning Potter books. Just as you can't take roaming bands hunting for illegal immigrants as a sign the nation at large is doing it. It is happening, but not at the scale to which you think it is.
And lastly, thank you for agreeing with the entirety of my posts finally. I figured you wanted me to break it down for you Barney style.
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On September 06 2019 00:59 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Why is that a question? That doesn't warrant a '?'.
And how is a mixed community "vaguely diverse"? Are you looking at skin color or nation of origin?
And it isn't a small town phenomena. I didn't say it was. I'm pointing out that you can't take Potter book banning in small towns as a sign that the nation at large is banning Potter books. Just as you can't take roaming bands hunting for illegal immigrants as a sign the nation at large is doing it. It is happening, but not at the scale to which you think it is.
And lastly, thank you for agreeing with the entirety of my posts finally. I figured you wanted me to break it down for you Barney style.
I'm a bit confused as to why/how you mistook my use of insular as you did so I indicated that by saying "I meant it literally?"
"mixed community" is a vague term and "diversity" is as well. Citizens of the US are pretty homogeneously "American" regardless.
The quote was literally preceded by "small towns"... No one was saying that it was a sign the nation was going to start banning potter books (they already went through that was part of the point) or that roaming bands hunting illegal immigrants is a sign the country is doing it (why even build such a ridiculous strawman?)
Clearly you missed the point entirely, as suspected earlier. Just to reiterate it though, the distinction between the school that was late to the Potter banning and the "roaming bands" or more specifically the concentration camps is detrimental to progress imo. They are not aberrations that should be beyond you, but should be seen as the reliably consistent outcomes of systems that are intrinsic to the US as a nation.
EDIT: @Farv you can pick this up or I'm going to stop because it's got my superfans riled up and the arguments as they present them aren't worth the posts at this point.
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On September 06 2019 01:27 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2019 00:59 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Why is that a question? That doesn't warrant a '?'.
And how is a mixed community "vaguely diverse"? Are you looking at skin color or nation of origin?
And it isn't a small town phenomena. I didn't say it was. I'm pointing out that you can't take Potter book banning in small towns as a sign that the nation at large is banning Potter books. Just as you can't take roaming bands hunting for illegal immigrants as a sign the nation at large is doing it. It is happening, but not at the scale to which you think it is.
And lastly, thank you for agreeing with the entirety of my posts finally. I figured you wanted me to break it down for you Barney style. I'm a bit confused as to why/how you mistook my use of insular as you did so I indicated that by saying "I meant it literally?" "mixed community" is a vague term and "diversity" is as well. Citizens of the US are pretty homogeneously "American" regardless. The quote was literally preceded by "small towns"... No one was saying that it was a sign the nation was going to start banning potter books (they already went through that was part of the point) or that roaming bands hunting illegal immigrants is a sign the country is doing it (why even build such a ridiculous strawman?) Clearly you missed the point entirely, as suspected earlier. Just to reiterate it though, the distinction between the school that was late to the Potter banning and the "roaming bands" or more specifically the concentration camps is detrimental to progress imo. They are not aberrations that should be beyond you, but should be seen as the reliably consistent outcomes of systems that are intrinsic to the US as a nation.
Your entire argument is that the school late to the party is reflective of America at large. I argued against it. I think we're done?
To your edit below: I answered that already about 3-4 posts back.
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On September 06 2019 01:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2019 01:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 06 2019 00:59 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Why is that a question? That doesn't warrant a '?'.
And how is a mixed community "vaguely diverse"? Are you looking at skin color or nation of origin?
And it isn't a small town phenomena. I didn't say it was. I'm pointing out that you can't take Potter book banning in small towns as a sign that the nation at large is banning Potter books. Just as you can't take roaming bands hunting for illegal immigrants as a sign the nation at large is doing it. It is happening, but not at the scale to which you think it is.
And lastly, thank you for agreeing with the entirety of my posts finally. I figured you wanted me to break it down for you Barney style. I'm a bit confused as to why/how you mistook my use of insular as you did so I indicated that by saying "I meant it literally?" "mixed community" is a vague term and "diversity" is as well. Citizens of the US are pretty homogeneously "American" regardless. The quote was literally preceded by "small towns"... No one was saying that it was a sign the nation was going to start banning potter books (they already went through that was part of the point) or that roaming bands hunting illegal immigrants is a sign the country is doing it (why even build such a ridiculous strawman?) Clearly you missed the point entirely, as suspected earlier. Just to reiterate it though, the distinction between the school that was late to the Potter banning and the "roaming bands" or more specifically the concentration camps is detrimental to progress imo. They are not aberrations that should be beyond you, but should be seen as the reliably consistent outcomes of systems that are intrinsic to the US as a nation. Your entire argument is that the school late to the party is reflective of America at large. I argued against it. I think we're done?
Yes, except you argued against the wrong extrapolation (about the proliferation of banning potter books instead of how it's a delayed manifestation of something the rest of the country already went through) which is why there's no point continuing.
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On September 05 2019 22:44 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
San Fran designates the NRA a domestic terror organization. Let's see how this unfolds.
Shouldn't we be talking about this?
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When some people here write that Americans have large cultural differences within their border, I just think they've never travelled outside of USA, or at the most, Canada. When you have no idea how to speak the language, how greetings go, how to even attend meetings, or even rules on crossing the street, those are all vastly bigger cultural differences than anything in the USA, that beats any political differences.
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EPT
