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On September 04 2019 13:03 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Hollywood actress Deborah Messing asking for the attendee list to a Trump fundraiser to be made public so those people could be blacklisted is a very worrying development.Why not ask them to wear stars?
Incredibly scary the direction many of these anti-Trump extremists are heading.
Political leaning isn't a protected class.
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Canada11385 Posts
On September 04 2019 13:11 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2019 13:03 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Hollywood actress Deborah Messing asking for the attendee list to a Trump fundraiser to be made public so those people could be blacklisted is a very worrying development.Why not ask them to wear stars?
Incredibly scary the direction many of these anti-Trump extremists are heading. Political leaning isn't a protected class.
Right, right. And 'freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.' Can predict these ones.
Nonetheless, re instituting the Hollywood Blacklist is a bad idea. It was a bad idea under McCarthy and it's a bad idea now.
Now a days, it's normally the Amish and the Old Orders that practice The Shunning. Das ist verboten.
Can't say they're the most progressive people around...
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On September 04 2019 13:19 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2019 13:11 Gahlo wrote:On September 04 2019 13:03 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Hollywood actress Deborah Messing asking for the attendee list to a Trump fundraiser to be made public so those people could be blacklisted is a very worrying development.Why not ask them to wear stars?
Incredibly scary the direction many of these anti-Trump extremists are heading. Political leaning isn't a protected class. Right, right. And 'freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.' Can predict these ones. Nonetheless, re instituting the Hollywood Blacklist is a bad idea. It was a bad idea under McCarthy and it's a bad idea now. Now a days, it's normally the Amish and the Old Orders that practice The Shunning. Das ist verboten. Can't say they're the most progressive people around...
I mean, I don't think it's a good idea either, but when you submit yourself to the marketplace of ideas and people don't want to buy your shit...
And if you think those are the only people in this country that shun/excom people, fucking lol.
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Canada11385 Posts
Well, I don't think it is a marketplace of ideas because they are attending a fundraiser, not publicly broadcasting ideas, and certainly not packaging their ideas into something marketable. It's the collapse of the private-public, where people need to be vetted for their Wrong Think, not even for what they say.
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Attending a fundraiser crosses the line of thinking into doing. It is direct support for a politician and his agenda.
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Political blacklisting happens all the time in tons of fields and campaign donations are already public (save the dark SPAC money).
Open and systematic is probably a bit much but but why would anyone care what Messing thinks in the first place? Are we going to be descending into taking the political commentary of James Woods and Messing as anything more than idle musings of another (poorly informed) citizen?
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On September 04 2019 13:19 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2019 13:11 Gahlo wrote:On September 04 2019 13:03 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Hollywood actress Deborah Messing asking for the attendee list to a Trump fundraiser to be made public so those people could be blacklisted is a very worrying development.Why not ask them to wear stars?
Incredibly scary the direction many of these anti-Trump extremists are heading. Political leaning isn't a protected class. Right, right. And 'freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.' Can predict these ones.Nonetheless, re instituting the Hollywood Blacklist is a bad idea. It was a bad idea under McCarthy and it's a bad idea now. Now a days, it's normally the Amish and the Old Orders that practice The Shunning. Das ist verboten. Can't say they're the most progressive people around...
Being able to predict common rebuttals doesn't mean they're suddenly invalid, and NettleS's analogy is obviously unfair, as Gahlo pointed out. I really don't care about Messing, but it's pretty amusing that some other Hollywood stars are so worried about being connected to Trump, even as they directly support him at a fundraiser.
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On September 04 2019 23:16 JimmiC wrote:In great (IMO) international news. The Hong Kong leader finally bowed to the pressure from the protesters and is removing the bill about extradition to China mainland. It is a huge deal that at least for now Hong Kong can still exercise its democratic rights. As much as the US gets shit on in this thread, most of it for good reason, it is important to realize that the ability to shit on it is not something that many countries have. Nice to see mostly non-violent (on the side of the protesters anyhow) work. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/asia/hong-kong-carrie-lam-extradition-bill-intl-hnk/index.html
From what I saw the protesters were more violent and the police more restrained than is typical in the US so I don't think it serves as the example you think it does.
I mean protesters literally tore through the security fencing, broke down the doors/windows to the equivalent of a congressional building and trashed the place.
EDIT: Might be able to get stuff like gun legislation with 90+% support passed with protests like that.
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On September 04 2019 23:40 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2019 23:16 JimmiC wrote:In great (IMO) international news. The Hong Kong leader finally bowed to the pressure from the protesters and is removing the bill about extradition to China mainland. It is a huge deal that at least for now Hong Kong can still exercise its democratic rights. As much as the US gets shit on in this thread, most of it for good reason, it is important to realize that the ability to shit on it is not something that many countries have. Nice to see mostly non-violent (on the side of the protesters anyhow) work. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/asia/hong-kong-carrie-lam-extradition-bill-intl-hnk/index.html From what I saw the protesters were more violent and the police more restrained than is typical in the US so I don't think it serves as the example you think it does. I mean protesters literally tore through the security fencing, broke down the doors/windows to the equivalent of a congressional building and trashed the place.
Minus the detail that the bill wasn't withdrawn after that protest of course. There has been months of peaceful protest in Hong Kong following that incident to get to this. I'd also point out that only one of the five demands has been met of the protesters now so the idea that this was even a success is highly questionable.
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On September 04 2019 23:54 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2019 23:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 04 2019 23:16 JimmiC wrote:In great (IMO) international news. The Hong Kong leader finally bowed to the pressure from the protesters and is removing the bill about extradition to China mainland. It is a huge deal that at least for now Hong Kong can still exercise its democratic rights. As much as the US gets shit on in this thread, most of it for good reason, it is important to realize that the ability to shit on it is not something that many countries have. Nice to see mostly non-violent (on the side of the protesters anyhow) work. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/asia/hong-kong-carrie-lam-extradition-bill-intl-hnk/index.html From what I saw the protesters were more violent and the police more restrained than is typical in the US so I don't think it serves as the example you think it does. I mean protesters literally tore through the security fencing, broke down the doors/windows to the equivalent of a congressional building and trashed the place. Minus the detail that the bill wasn't withdrawn after that protest of course. There's been months of peaceful protest in Hong Kong following that incident to get to this.
Well it was, not immediately after, but it wasn't the only clash. The airport and other major hubs have been shut down in a similar fashion. Sometimes with a little extra flair + Show Spoiler +
I mean if anything reports are that the protests have become increasingly violent (which makes sense as a motive toward resolution).
HONG KONG — A senior Hong Kong official on Monday warned for the first time that “elements of terror” were seen among the city’s pro-democracy protesters, as riot police officers took up positions around schools and spread out across Hong Kong’s subway system after a weekend of demonstrations punctuated by violence and vandalism.
The police said protesters threw as many as 100 firebombs over the weekend, and displayed one they seized — made from a Corona Extra beer bottle — at a news conference.
www.nytimes.com
Protesters aren't done either, they want more than the extradition bill pulled. Doesn't feel like the place to discuss anything other than the mistaken comparison made with US police and protests originally though.
EDIT: I'd also point out that only one of the five demands has been met of the protesters now so the idea that this was even a success is highly questionable.
Yeah, I agree it's really too early to celebrate much of anything though.
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On September 04 2019 13:19 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2019 13:11 Gahlo wrote:On September 04 2019 13:03 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Hollywood actress Deborah Messing asking for the attendee list to a Trump fundraiser to be made public so those people could be blacklisted is a very worrying development.Why not ask them to wear stars?
Incredibly scary the direction many of these anti-Trump extremists are heading. Political leaning isn't a protected class. Right, right. And 'freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.' Can predict these ones. Nonetheless, re instituting the Hollywood Blacklist is a bad idea. It was a bad idea under McCarthy and it's a bad idea now. Now a days, it's normally the Amish and the Old Orders that practice The Shunning. Das ist verboten. Can't say they're the most progressive people around...
If you're an active Trump supporter you should be shunned and mocked. These are the same people that are currently organizing to perpetuate and expand a massive concentration camp system, who are busy looting and annexing every tiny bit of public good in the country as spoils for the billionaire class, and who are willing to sacrifice the climate and the future of every bio-organism more complex than a mouse to their yacht collection.
There has always been blacklisting and censorship and so on. It takes different shapes and forms, and it can be good and bad depending on the circumstances. Only a simpleton would equate blacklisting and Joe McCarthy, without also noting that he was a fantasist with mobster connections who ran a witch-hunting campaign in order to advance his own career and raise his own profile. In many respects the people targeted for suspicion of communism in the USA were the good ones; they were civil rights agitators, union rabble rousers, anti-war activists, social justice advocates and subversive artists, thinkers and critics. I'm all in favor of turning every wealthy psycho in the USA into a social pariah who can't go outside without being harassed for supporting the modern GOP. Nazis should be blacklisted.
* I don't actually think rightwingers should have their speech taken away, but there should certainly be punitive social consequences for any political activities they undertake.
User was warned for this post.
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On September 04 2019 23:40 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2019 23:16 JimmiC wrote:In great (IMO) international news. The Hong Kong leader finally bowed to the pressure from the protesters and is removing the bill about extradition to China mainland. It is a huge deal that at least for now Hong Kong can still exercise its democratic rights. As much as the US gets shit on in this thread, most of it for good reason, it is important to realize that the ability to shit on it is not something that many countries have. Nice to see mostly non-violent (on the side of the protesters anyhow) work. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/asia/hong-kong-carrie-lam-extradition-bill-intl-hnk/index.html From what I saw the protesters were more violent and the police more restrained than is typical in the US so I don't think it serves as the example you think it does. I mean protesters literally tore through the security fencing, broke down the doors/windows to the equivalent of a congressional building and trashed the place. EDIT: Might be able to get stuff like gun legislation with 90+% support passed with protests like that.
Come now, your love of authoritarian China and their is just a bit off-putting, just so you can point to how bad you think USA is. In the first place, if the Chinese control Hong Kong government didn't react with such awful brutality, there wouldn't had been so much demonstration in Hong Kong in the first place. And Hong Kong doesn't have democratic rights. Their leaders are not truly voted in and pro-democracy politicians will find themselves removed and charged of random offences.
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On September 05 2019 00:28 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2019 23:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 04 2019 23:16 JimmiC wrote:In great (IMO) international news. The Hong Kong leader finally bowed to the pressure from the protesters and is removing the bill about extradition to China mainland. It is a huge deal that at least for now Hong Kong can still exercise its democratic rights. As much as the US gets shit on in this thread, most of it for good reason, it is important to realize that the ability to shit on it is not something that many countries have. Nice to see mostly non-violent (on the side of the protesters anyhow) work. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/asia/hong-kong-carrie-lam-extradition-bill-intl-hnk/index.html From what I saw the protesters were more violent and the police more restrained than is typical in the US so I don't think it serves as the example you think it does. I mean protesters literally tore through the security fencing, broke down the doors/windows to the equivalent of a congressional building and trashed the place. EDIT: Might be able to get stuff like gun legislation with 90+% support passed with protests like that. Come now, your love of authoritarian China and their is just a bit off-putting, just so you can point to how bad you think USA is. In the first place, if the Chinese control Hong Kong government didn't react with such awful brutality, there wouldn't had been so much demonstration in Hong Kong in the first place. And Hong Kong doesn't have democratic rights. Their leaders are not truly voted in and pro-democracy politicians will find themselves removed and charged of random offences.
No, HKers are not primarily mad because of police brutality, they are mad because of the extradition bill, their lack of choice in selecting their regional executive, and the fact that the wages cannot keep up with rising housing market.
Most protesters expected violence.
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On September 05 2019 00:28 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2019 23:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 04 2019 23:16 JimmiC wrote:In great (IMO) international news. The Hong Kong leader finally bowed to the pressure from the protesters and is removing the bill about extradition to China mainland. It is a huge deal that at least for now Hong Kong can still exercise its democratic rights. As much as the US gets shit on in this thread, most of it for good reason, it is important to realize that the ability to shit on it is not something that many countries have. Nice to see mostly non-violent (on the side of the protesters anyhow) work. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/asia/hong-kong-carrie-lam-extradition-bill-intl-hnk/index.html From what I saw the protesters were more violent and the police more restrained than is typical in the US so I don't think it serves as the example you think it does. I mean protesters literally tore through the security fencing, broke down the doors/windows to the equivalent of a congressional building and trashed the place. EDIT: Might be able to get stuff like gun legislation with 90+% support passed with protests like that. Come now, your love of authoritarian China and their is just a bit off-putting, just so you can point to how bad you think USA is. In the first place, if the Chinese control Hong Kong government didn't react with such awful brutality, there wouldn't had been so much demonstration in Hong Kong in the first place. And Hong Kong doesn't have democratic rights. Their leaders are not truly voted in and pro-democracy politicians will find themselves removed and charged of random offences.
I love you more than I love "authoritarian China", and frankly, I'm not that fond of you. There are a lot of issues going on in China/HK, and this isn't going to be the place to sort them out, so I'll just stand by my point that; from what I've seen protesters have been far more disruptive and violent (depending on why, that might not be a bad thing btw) and met with a more (though still quite violent) measured response from authorities when compared to the US.
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On September 05 2019 00:32 zenist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2019 00:28 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 04 2019 23:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 04 2019 23:16 JimmiC wrote:In great (IMO) international news. The Hong Kong leader finally bowed to the pressure from the protesters and is removing the bill about extradition to China mainland. It is a huge deal that at least for now Hong Kong can still exercise its democratic rights. As much as the US gets shit on in this thread, most of it for good reason, it is important to realize that the ability to shit on it is not something that many countries have. Nice to see mostly non-violent (on the side of the protesters anyhow) work. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/asia/hong-kong-carrie-lam-extradition-bill-intl-hnk/index.html From what I saw the protesters were more violent and the police more restrained than is typical in the US so I don't think it serves as the example you think it does. I mean protesters literally tore through the security fencing, broke down the doors/windows to the equivalent of a congressional building and trashed the place. EDIT: Might be able to get stuff like gun legislation with 90+% support passed with protests like that. Come now, your love of authoritarian China and their is just a bit off-putting, just so you can point to how bad you think USA is. In the first place, if the Chinese control Hong Kong government didn't react with such awful brutality, there wouldn't had been so much demonstration in Hong Kong in the first place. And Hong Kong doesn't have democratic rights. Their leaders are not truly voted in and pro-democracy politicians will find themselves removed and charged of random offences. No, HKers are not primarily mad because of police brutality, they are mad because of the extradition bill, their lack of choice in selecting their regional executive, and the fact that the wages cannot keep up with rising housing market. Most protesters expected violence.
A lot of people are REAL unhappy with the Hong Kong police, weirdly I even see it in Tinder, a lot of, "swipe left if you support the HK police," and the like.
I can only really speak from talking with people from HK though, and Ill admit Im usually self selecting for people who ARENT pro-police/pro-mainland Chinese BS.
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On September 05 2019 00:52 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2019 00:32 zenist wrote:On September 05 2019 00:28 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On September 04 2019 23:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 04 2019 23:16 JimmiC wrote:In great (IMO) international news. The Hong Kong leader finally bowed to the pressure from the protesters and is removing the bill about extradition to China mainland. It is a huge deal that at least for now Hong Kong can still exercise its democratic rights. As much as the US gets shit on in this thread, most of it for good reason, it is important to realize that the ability to shit on it is not something that many countries have. Nice to see mostly non-violent (on the side of the protesters anyhow) work. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/asia/hong-kong-carrie-lam-extradition-bill-intl-hnk/index.html From what I saw the protesters were more violent and the police more restrained than is typical in the US so I don't think it serves as the example you think it does. I mean protesters literally tore through the security fencing, broke down the doors/windows to the equivalent of a congressional building and trashed the place. EDIT: Might be able to get stuff like gun legislation with 90+% support passed with protests like that. Come now, your love of authoritarian China and their is just a bit off-putting, just so you can point to how bad you think USA is. In the first place, if the Chinese control Hong Kong government didn't react with such awful brutality, there wouldn't had been so much demonstration in Hong Kong in the first place. And Hong Kong doesn't have democratic rights. Their leaders are not truly voted in and pro-democracy politicians will find themselves removed and charged of random offences. No, HKers are not primarily mad because of police brutality, they are mad because of the extradition bill, their lack of choice in selecting their regional executive, and the fact that the wages cannot keep up with rising housing market. Most protesters expected violence. A lot of people are REAL unhappy with the Hong Kong police, weirdly I even see it in Tinder, a lot of, "swipe left if you support the HK police," and the like. I can only really speak from talking with people from HK though, and Ill admit Im usually self selecting for people who ARENT pro-police/pro-mainland Chinese BS.
You have to look at the situation from all angles instead of cherry picking.
Only naive protesters think that there won't be violence. Some protesters even goading the PLA to take action in order to say that 1 country 2 systems failed.
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The protests started off fairly small and mainly of students. After incidences of police brutality, which people didn't expect since China had previously preferred to use the local organised crime groups for violence, the older generation were shocked and took to the streets too.
Meanwhile, the PLA don't need to be goaded into violence. They are co-currently releasing videos of a military buildup across the border to Hong Kong. Not exactly subtle.
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I don't understand why the dems didn't amalgamate and ameliorate themselves around one established candidate six months ago instead of having a free for all though out the debates. The last couple months has been Gabbard beating up on Kamala, Kamala beating up on Biden, etc the only candidates that seem to get along is Warren and Buttigieg. I dont know nothing about politics but since Warren was the first candidate to enter the race would it not make more sense to rally around her than have 20 more people enter the fray afterwards?
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EPT![[image loading]](https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/NINTCHDBPICT000517883249.jpg?strip=all&w=960)
