EPTMy guess is that nothing comes of it unless San Francisco also takes actions that terrorist organisations are put under.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1788
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
My guess is that nothing comes of it unless San Francisco also takes actions that terrorist organisations are put under. | ||
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farvacola
United States18838 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
9005 Posts
I only saw a clip on youtube by Fox News that had the headline. Can't find it on CNN or NPR. | ||
KwarK
United States43201 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23450 Posts
On September 06 2019 03:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote: My guess is that nothing comes of it unless San Francisco also takes actions that terrorist organisations are put under. They have a meeting coming up, let's see if they raid and arrest them or it's just helping the NRA raise some money by playing the heel. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On September 05 2019 23:59 GreenHorizons wrote: How little average people in the US know about the rest of the world (or even cultures they aren't a part of in the US) is rather notorious. EDIT: Pretty sure you made a joke about it recently? I understand the point you are trying to make but do you think that the “average person” in China or India understands what’s going on in Africa or even Europe better than the “average” American? And if your point is that Americans have more access to information but don’t use it, then we have an under-theorized component that partially determines what any person “should” know or familiarize themselves with: namely their access to information. But you wouldn’t criticize an electrician for not knowing Shakespeare or a lawyer for not knowing quantum mechanics, right? Americans tend to know a lot, I think, about things that seem immediately relevant to them, and if anything is to blame for their “insularity” it would seem to me to be the fact that many of those things do not impinge upon their lived experience, and seemingly have little prospect of ever doing so. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
For instance the average European would had probably written European countries and African countries together with China and India, rather than mashing entire continents together as if they were culturally equivalent to countries. The fact that you have to scrape to countries that are still are building road and rail networks to connect people physically and have places without internet to compare access to information speaks volumes. On the otherhand, I've heard internet in USA is abysmal, so maybe you are mistaken in thinking it is a like for like comparison? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23450 Posts
On September 06 2019 04:07 IgnE wrote: I understand the point you are trying to make but do you think that the “average person” in China or India understands what’s going on in Africa or even Europe better than the “average” American? And if your point is that Americans have more access to information but don’t use it, then we have an under-theorized component that partially determines what any person “should” know or familiarize themselves with: namely their access to information. But you wouldn’t criticize an electrician for not knowing Shakespeare or a lawyer for not knowing quantum mechanics, right? Americans tend to know a lot, I think, about things that seem immediately relevant to them, and if anything is to blame for their “insularity” it would seem to me to be the fact that many of those things do not impinge upon their lived experience, and seemingly have little prospect of ever doing so. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue? That insularity is a global phenomenon? I don't think I'd disagree with that with some deference to dmcd's points, both about diversity in general and the comparisons between rural China/India and the rural US. Or something else? | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On September 06 2019 04:36 JimmiC wrote: If you are referring to me then you are wrong, I have traveled outside of both. Also, I never said the cultural differences within the US are bigger than the cultural differences between different countries in Europe, that is own straw man that is actually very clear it is a straw man in your post. Bolded your flawed logic for your convenience. By your own words you were refering to xdaunt and Igne were you not? I didn't name you. But lets say I implied you. The similarities between Americans are vaster than the differences between Americans, when compared to other countries. It's all relative. People in UK will joke about how people "up north" are different from people down south, or Cornwall different from anywhere else, and that's just England. But in the end our national holidays are mostly the same, we are never puzzled on how to greet each other, we all know the social rules and we are all comfortable in pubs. Truth is, I can take a 2 hour train and suddenly I am somewhere where the language is foreign, they drink loads of coffee, and I can never fathom just where to kiss people on the cheeks. Also everyone drives like they are angry. Now that is different. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On September 06 2019 04:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote: By your own words you were refering to xdaunt and Igne were you not? I didn't name you. But lets say I implied you. The similarities between Americans are vaster than the differences between Americans, when compared to other countries. It's all relative. People in UK will joke about how people "up north" are different from people down south, or Cornwall different from anywhere else, and that's just England. But in the end our national holidays are mostly the same, we are never puzzled on how to greet each other, we all know the social rules and we are all comfortable in pubs. Truth is, I can take a 2 hour train and suddenly I am somewhere where the language is foreign, they drink loads of coffee, and I can never fathom just where to kiss people on the cheeks. Also everyone drives like they are angry. Now that is different. I recall my parents telling me that an American exchange student that was supposed to come live with us canceled, because they feared the proximity of the Netherlands to the war in Bosnia. I don't know if they made that up, since I was very young then, but it always struck me as both plausible and ridiculous. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9005 Posts
On September 06 2019 04:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote: By your own words you were refering to xdaunt and Igne were you not? I didn't name you. But lets say I implied you. The similarities between Americans are vaster than the differences between Americans, when compared to other countries. It's all relative. People in UK will joke about how people "up north" are different from people down south, or Cornwall different from anywhere else, and that's just England. But in the end our national holidays are mostly the same, we are never puzzled on how to greet each other, we all know the social rules and we are all comfortable in pubs. Truth is, I can take a 2 hour train and suddenly I am somewhere where the language is foreign, they drink loads of coffee, and I can never fathom just where to kiss people on the cheeks. Also everyone drives like they are angry. Now that is different. There are pockets of that all over the US though, if you think about it. I can walk across the street and be immersed with a language and culture I'm not familiar with. I can go in a number of directions and find the same thing you're talking about, all in the confines of the border. The cultural differences are there. Maybe not in a country to country similarity, but culture to culture. The Hispanic culture is different from the American culture and they exist right next to each other in a Chicago suburb. Not related, but kind of to US politics; the PM of Britain, his brother just quit the cabinet because conflicts of interest. Would anyone here imagine anyone in the trump family to resign their posts due to conflicts of interest? Sure, we're 3 years in now so maybe it is a bit late, but I wonder if they had any sense of decency, they would not have taken any of their posts just because. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Or perhaps a cousin you never knew from somewhere rural invited you to a wedding or funeral. You attend that social occasion. You have no problem with the social situation that is a wedding or funeral. You don't have to worry about how to turn up and at what time and whether you are supposed to give or recieve the gift. In my street alone, there are about several different nationalities. Indian, Greek, Chinese, Italian are some of them. Yet we can all greet and talk with each other and engage in the obscure ritual that is talking about the weather. Localised different American culture is marked more by similarity than differences. And an American will never know unless he goes somewhere else that isn't just a country next to the border, such is American cultural influence. Sure maybe the place that your long lost cousin live in might ban Harry Potter books in schools, and burn down abortion clinics, and shoot guns at the wedding ceremony, but if that long lost cousin asks you to say grace before eating, you aren't puzzled by this request, you know how to behave at the wedding or at a BBQ and you will unknowingly go by most of the social rules and interactions that is culture. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
9005 Posts
On September 06 2019 06:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote: You walk across the street. You talk to another person. You both can greet each other in a socially acceptable way. You both can speak some English (hopefully!) You both gesticulate wildly without offending the other person with hand signals. You both understand the local rules for crossing the street when there are no cars, but the pedestrian lights are red. You both can sit down at a cafe and flag down the waiter without causing offence and order food or drinks in the appropriate style and sequence. You both can make appropriate facial gestures for whatever the social situation is. Or perhaps a cousin you never knew from somewhere rural invited you to a wedding or funeral. You attend that social occasion. You have no problem with the social situation that is a wedding or funeral. You don't have to worry about how to turn up and at what time and whether you are supposed to give or recieve the gift. In my street alone, there are about several different nationalities. Indian, Greek, Chinese, Italian are some of them. Yet we can all greet and talk with each other and engage in the obscure ritual that is talking about the weather. Localised different American culture is marked more by similarity than differences. And an American will never know unless he goes somewhere else that isn't just a country next to the border, such is American cultural influence. Sure maybe the place that your long lost cousin live in might ban Harry Potter books in schools, and burn down abortion clinics, and shoot guns at the wedding ceremony, but if that long lost cousin asks you to say grace before eating, you aren't puzzled by this request, you know how to behave at the wedding or at a BBQ and you will unknowingly go by most of the social rules and interactions that is culture. You can get by most places like that today. Even when walking around Tokyo, I understood enough of the culture and language to not offend anyone. But going back to "average", I'm far beyond that in many regards. I observe first to understand my surroundings and then interact. Or learn what I can beforehand. I find it interesting, this conversation all the same though. I get what you're putting down though. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On September 06 2019 04:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote: By your own words you were refering to xdaunt and Igne were you not? I didn't name you. But lets say I implied you. The similarities between Americans are vaster than the differences between Americans, when compared to other countries. It's all relative. People in UK will joke about how people "up north" are different from people down south, or Cornwall different from anywhere else, and that's just England. But in the end our national holidays are mostly the same, we are never puzzled on how to greet each other, we all know the social rules and we are all comfortable in pubs. Truth is, I can take a 2 hour train and suddenly I am somewhere where the language is foreign, they drink loads of coffee, and I can never fathom just where to kiss people on the cheeks. Also everyone drives like they are angry. Now that is different. Uh are you naming me then? Are you saying that I haven't traveled outside the US and have no idea what I'm talking about? | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On September 06 2019 04:40 GreenHorizons wrote: I'm not sure what you're trying to argue? That insularity is a global phenomenon? I don't think I'd disagree with that with some deference to dmcd's points, both about diversity in general and the comparisons between rural China/India and the rural US. Or something else? I am saying that you haven't properly grounded an argument that insularity is always a moral failing. Maybe you didn't mean to imply any such thing, but the context seemed to suggest it. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23450 Posts
On September 06 2019 10:49 IgnE wrote: I am saying that you haven't properly grounded an argument that insularity is always a moral failing. Maybe you didn't mean to imply any such thing, but the context seemed to suggest it. No, I didn't mean it's always a moral failing, it certainly can be and I would argue is in the context of my argument (about how the concentric circles of insularity in the US and the inward [toward smaller circles] projection of problems that permeate through the whole is problematic) though. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On September 05 2019 23:50 GreenHorizons wrote: The focus on the smaller (usually conservative) communities is what I find detrimental to the discussion. Particularly by attempting to draw a distinction between them and the larger US. The US is a remarkably insular community which these less connected communities reflect and focusing on what some backwater Christians think misses the systemic issues at play for the sake of belittling them and conservatives in general. I'm not seeing it. What are some issues that particularly characterize the "remarkably insular community" of the larger US culture that aren't mirrored in other large countries? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23450 Posts
On September 06 2019 11:31 IgnE wrote: I'm not seeing it. What are some issues that particularly characterize the "remarkably insular community" of the larger US culture that aren't mirrored in other large countries? Our military is in ~150 countries and our citizens couldn't find most of them on a map. | ||
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