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On July 19 2019 01:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2019 01:11 farvacola wrote:
She is an American and you and your folks’ tactic to deAmericanize her is a tactic as old as this country. You’d be marching in the street for Prohibition right alongside the KKK, you’re in great company. I'm not so sure that she's going to be an American for long. And beyond that, I have zero patience for incorporating people into the American tent who hate the tent. The same goes for the other politicians who hate America, like AOC. These are people who need to be ridiculed, humiliated, and marginalized.
Who said they hate America? Do you have direct quotes of these people saying they hate America? Tell me what have they done and said that makes them hate America?
Argue for your premise before claiming it's the truth.
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On July 19 2019 01:35 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2019 01:17 IgnE wrote:On July 19 2019 01:09 xDaunt wrote:On July 18 2019 16:48 schaf wrote:
Lock her up was nasty. Send her back is straight up evil. Way to go, Donnie... There's nothing evil about it at all. In fact, on substance, it's quite principled. Let's just set aside the very real possibility that Omar is guilty of immigration fraud and focus on her merits as an immigrant. She clearly is someone who doesn't like the country as it is and wants to reform it quite radically. How is it in the interest of Americans to bring someone like that into the fold? Stated another way, how sane is it for America to import anti-Americans? It's not. The onus is on immigrants to comport to American values, not for Americans to adopt and accept foreign values. She won an American election. Americans voted for her to represent their American interests. So? How much did they know then about Omar and her beliefs? How much do they know now? And beyond that, how do they view issues of immigration, multiculturalism, and competing values? There's a large chunk of Americans (if not a majority) who believe the naive, idealistic "everyone can get along" nonsense that is peddled to us from the time that we are children in school. Simply put, these people don't know better, and they need to be educated. This process starts by highlighting the consequences of such ludicrous beliefs, such as the election of an anti-American immigrant to congress. Which brings us back to the true genius and importance of Trump. He understands these issues and is actively moving the conversation to precisely the place where it needs to be for Americans to regain their sense of pride, dignity, and conviction.
wherein after calling for the humiliation of a hispanic congresswoman, xDaunt mansplains to us how our beliefs are wrong, his are right, and we need to move these brown folks back
to their countries a lá the true genius of Trump’s words. with this we will regain our ‘dignity.’ (though i will say, this is void of any dignity from my perspective)
with sincerity, correct me where i’m wrong. i had been coming around to understanding your posts but whew. this is pretty gross. it sounds like you’ve heard the dog whistle and are barking up a storm.
i have to be honest, i’m working on the assumption that you must mean something else because i’m embarrassed to have even read this. i need a shower.
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On July 19 2019 00:05 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2019 15:29 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 13:46 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 13:20 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 11:35 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 09:42 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 06:57 GreenHorizons wrote:I'm reminded of this article on why white (and/or white adjacent) people think there is "anti-whiteness" everywhere they look. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Equality can feel like oppression. But it’s not. What you’re feeling is just the discomfort of losing a little bit of your privilege — the same discomfort that an only child feels when she goes to preschool and discovers that there are other kids who want to play with the same toys as she does. All this anger we see from people screaming “All Lives Matter” in response to black protesters at rallies. All this anger we see from people insisting that their “religious freedom” is being infringed because a gay couple wants to get married . All these people angry about immigrants, angry about Muslims, angry about “Happy Holidays,” angry about not being able to say bigoted things without being called a bigot…+ Show Spoiler +They all basically boil down to people who have grown accustomed to walking straight at other folks, and expecting them to move. So when “those people” in their path don’t move — when those people start wondering, “Why am I always moving out of this guy’s way?”; when those people start asking themselves, “What if I didn’t move? What if I just kept walking too?”; when those people start believing that they have every bit as much right to that aisle as anyone else — it can seem like their rights are being taken away. They even see anti-white racism, divisive, fight-starting in capitalization while seeing white supremacist propaganda as conciliatory lol. You nailed it dude... I 1,000,000% agree with this.I as that as a milk-toast, Scotts-Irish, white ass American man. About 8 years ago I was confronted with the reality of my privilege and I did not want to accept it, but eventually did, and it opened my fucking eyes. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Equality requires the privileged to relinquish some of their power, most are unwilling to do that. When I was a little kid growing up on the east coast in the semi-south I used to think my black friends would lie about all the horrible shit that happened to them, I thought, "why do they make this stuff up?" Turns out I just never had to deal with it, so it was invisible to me... that is privilege. What power have you relinquished in order to work towards equality? I would say the first step, and probably the most important is simply acknowledging that I have privilege, and giving up my ignorance about my privilege. The nature of privilege is ignorance, the privileged people don't have to consider the problems other people do. So in regard to racial privilege, in acknowledging it I would think there comes some degree of commitment in calling it out when I see rather than just letting it slide because, "I'm white and it doesn't affect me." If I'm playing a game a CSGO and I hear the N word (happens all the time), rather than just be ok with that, I can at the very least confront them on it, and report the account. There are many different versions of that... for example is I see a nazi symbol written on a wall, I can get a pen and mark over it. Donate to a charity organization that combats racial inequality, march for black lives matter. I haven't done these latter two things, but for a lot of my black friends growing up I apologized for not believe them when we were kids, and tell them I believe them now. Small steps, but if all privileged people did that, the world would change. I thought there was more to privilege than that. You don't sound like someone who's given much of any thought to the subject. What's the point of your post? Are you actually curious about my experience or just want something to rail against? The post GH made that I quoted, you sound exactly like the type of person that post describes. Equality feels like oppression for you, that true for you or you just never even gave it a thought? No, I'm actually just surprised at how little privilege you actually had to relinquish. It's almost like you didn't have much power in the first place. You really stretched there, too, with the suggestion to donate to BLM. Giving away money counts as giving away power I guess. But maybe the metaphorical language doesn't really work? Why do you think this idea that giving up privilege feels like oppression resonates with you so much when your examples of giving up privilege are so lame? I can think of something else that might better describe the experience of 1) conversion to a cause, 2) spreading the good news to blasphemers, and 3) tithing — but "relinquishing power" isn't it.
I'll ask again... What is the point of your post?
Does Equality feel like oppression for you?
And if you don't think money is power, you are incredibly naive.
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United States44113 Posts
On July 19 2019 01:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2019 01:11 farvacola wrote:
She is an American and you and your folks’ tactic to deAmericanize her is a tactic as old as this country. You’d be marching in the street for Prohibition right alongside the KKK, you’re in great company. I'm not so sure that she's going to be an American for long. And beyond that, I have zero patience for incorporating people into the American tent who hate the tent. The same goes for the other politicians who hate America, like AOC. These are people who need to be ridiculed, humiliated, and marginalized.
People who hate the worst parts of America and want to make America better are infinitely preferable to people who ignore, or worse absolve, those parts of America. You’re the furthest thing from a patriot.
If you love your community you pick up the trash you see lying around, you don’t just get angry whenever anyone points out that there’s trash.
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On July 19 2019 01:17 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2019 01:09 xDaunt wrote:On July 18 2019 16:48 schaf wrote:
Lock her up was nasty. Send her back is straight up evil. Way to go, Donnie... There's nothing evil about it at all. In fact, on substance, it's quite principled. Let's just set aside the very real possibility that Omar is guilty of immigration fraud and focus on her merits as an immigrant. She clearly is someone who doesn't like the country as it is and wants to reform it quite radically. How is it in the interest of Americans to bring someone like that into the fold? Stated another way, how sane is it for America to import anti-Americans? It's not. The onus is on immigrants to comport to American values, not for Americans to adopt and accept foreign values. She won an American election. Americans voted for her to represent their American interests.
This is a little weird to me because Al Franken won an election but people besides his constituents still thought he was an embarrassment and led to his resignation. Maybe this is too much of a red herring but yeah.
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Pretty sure democrats and his constituents made him step down, yours supported a child molester that barely lost to the last minute...
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Don't make this a team thing. I liked Al Franken and didn't think his scandal was a national issue, nor the Alabama election scandal.
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You brought him up by plainly stating a falsehood, I responded with a truth.
Either say sorry or shut up.
Same with your knifecrimes in london BS, you just spout talking points with 0 follow up.
People like you are the problem.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2019 20:23 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2019 15:02 Longshank wrote:On July 18 2019 07:29 Destructicon wrote:On July 18 2019 06:57 KwarK wrote:
There aren’t no go zones in Sweden, that’s a thing Trump made up after watching a documentary on Fox and then confusingly tweeted about as “what happened in Sweden last night” when he meant “what I saw on tv last night, about Sweden”. Nowhere in Sweden is as dangerous as The Warzone (or as the city suggests we call it, the international district) in my US city and The Warzone is 100% safe during the day and has always been fine for me at night.
Also Africa used to be rich and still has vast wealth in natural resources. Colonists went there with guns and plundered it. The primary fear of white supremacists is not that society will fall apart if they lose power, it’s that it won’t. It’s that the institutions they created to abuse and exploit minorities will be used against them. Thats not accurate. Maybe Trump blew things out of proportion by calling them no go zones, but there are problem areas in certain places in Sweden where even the police will advise people against going in there. Tim Pool, on a interview following his visit mentioned how the police advised him against going into a certain neighborhood of Stockholm. He also interviewed a someone who works in the government there there and they mentioned that crime rates have increased in the problem areas. However, Pool alleged that he had to be escorted by police out of Rinkeby, a Stockholm suburb, due to purported threats to his safety. Swedish police have disputed Pool's report that police escorted him out, stating "Our understanding is that he didn't receive an escort. However, he followed the police who left the place."[31] The police stated that "When Tim Pool took out a camera and started filming a group of young people they pulled their hoods up and covered their faces and shouted at him to stop filming. The officers then told Tim Pool that it was not wise to stay there in the middle of the square and keep filming. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_PoolSo there are more crimes in poor areas than in rich ones? Shocking. There are no no-go zones here in Sweden, it's absurd to keep hearing this. There are better and worse neighbourhoods and intergration in some of these has been poor but stop spouting this nonsense please. The police don't advice people from going anywhere, at least during day time. The police escorted Tim Pool out of one of those problem areas. Is it really that safe an area if the police had to intervene to pull him out stating that several masked people were about to descend upon him? Have you listened to Tim Pool's account of it? Also, if you look on the wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-go_areaAnd scroll to the Sweden section you'll see that these zones are very much real. Just how violent they are is up in the air. With the mainstream media mostly trying to sweep this under the bus, and yet I keep finding videos talking about stones being thrown at passers by, assaults, attacks on the police in broad daylight, arson etc. https://www.rt.com/news/392009-eight-hoods-added-sweden-no-go-zone/https://gellerreport.com/2018/03/sweden-no-go-zones-war-zones.html/Also you completely ignoring what I said about migrants, this isn't just about poor neighborhoods. Those neighborhoods which are considered problem areas and have the highest level of criminality are the ones which took in migrants. Oh and if these zones aren't really that bad why did some politicians even float the idea of deploying the army in them? https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2017/10/20/swedish-politicians-propose-deploying-military-no-go-zones/That was the whole point of my post. If you just open the doors to immigration without any sort of plan for integration and harmonization you get situations like these. So, when I see situations like these arise in Europe I can understand Trumps desire to protect the border and be tough on immigration, and I don't think having such concerns makes you in any way racist. Also, on the topic of Norway. Norway isn't socialist, the links Wegandi provided show that its economy is very free/capitalistic. Yes Norway has a ton of social programs but that's not the same as it being socialist. Norway built those off the back of its strong free economy. If you want further proof listen to, it breaks it down far better then I could: Also, I strongly recommend to most of you guys to also not only read or listen to the mainstream news, but also follow some independent journalists and political commentators.
This is actually the worst post I've ever read. This is nothing but racial fear mongering propaganda.
What country do you live in? Are you Swedish, do you have any experience of what that country is like?
You read 100% like a deluded white American trump supporter.
If you do live in America you would know that we have the same things. If you live in any major city there are areas that are so dangerous if you drove through them you could get rob, killed, etc... they are that way because they are poor, and they are all filled with Americans not immigrants.
Do you think that when immigrants move to another country they have a lot of money?
* Do you think there is such a thing as a "middle class or rich migrant community"?
Do you think that in poor "all-American" communities there are no crime, and it is not dangerous?
Can you imagine a "rich" neighborhood that took in a lot of migrants suddenly becoming crime infested?
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On July 19 2019 02:10 Velr wrote:
You brought him up by plainly stating a falsehood, I responded with a truth.
Either say sorry or shut up.
Same with your knifecrimes in london BS, you just spout talking points with 0 follow up.
People like you are the problem.
Is it fair to say your distinction is it's okay for people in the same political party to call someone shit, even if they didn't vote for him and aren't his constituents, but not the other political party? Or could you clarify that point. You said Democrats and his constituents made him resign (Tons of Republicans hated Roy Moore for reference).
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But the republicans didn't make him drop out, most of them even voted for him and the president even endorsed him.
The Al Franken thing, which was WAY less outrageous, made him step down despite him being elected and his politics being liked.
Claiming both sides are bad on this is just a horrible hill to die on.
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On July 19 2019 01:35 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2019 01:17 IgnE wrote:On July 19 2019 01:09 xDaunt wrote:On July 18 2019 16:48 schaf wrote:
Lock her up was nasty. Send her back is straight up evil. Way to go, Donnie... There's nothing evil about it at all. In fact, on substance, it's quite principled. Let's just set aside the very real possibility that Omar is guilty of immigration fraud and focus on her merits as an immigrant. She clearly is someone who doesn't like the country as it is and wants to reform it quite radically. How is it in the interest of Americans to bring someone like that into the fold? Stated another way, how sane is it for America to import anti-Americans? It's not. The onus is on immigrants to comport to American values, not for Americans to adopt and accept foreign values. She won an American election. Americans voted for her to represent their American interests. So? How much did they know then about Omar and her beliefs? How much do they know now? And beyond that, how do they view issues of immigration, multiculturalism, and competing values? There's a large chunk of Americans (if not a majority) who believe the naive, idealistic "everyone can get along" nonsense that is peddled to us from the time that we are children in school. Simply put, these people don't know better, and they need to be educated. This process starts by highlighting the consequences of such ludicrous beliefs, such as the election of an anti-American immigrant to congress. Which brings us back to the true genius and importance of Trump. He understands these issues and is actively moving the conversation to precisely the place where it needs to be for Americans to regain their sense of pride, dignity, and conviction.
Every great Empire and Culture in history was the product of some particular Race, continuing to grow and flourish so long as it remained true to type and began to decay the moment affluence and a consequent suicidal Liberalism brought about a lowering of racial barriers, permitting an increasing degree of alien influence upon the Culture in question and UNAVOIDABLY causing the disintegration of that Culture A suicidal Tolerance of parasitical Aliens, making something entirely different out of the Nation, destroying its ethics, morals, patriotism, and religious conceptions, is NOT American! -Actual American Nazi speaking to an assembly of of American Nazis in Madison Square Garden in 1939. G. Wilhelm Kunze
Bonus "It's not racism, it's race realism."
We are NOT preaching Race-Hatred, but Race-Recognition and the Will to the Preservation of our Own
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On July 19 2019 01:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2019 01:11 farvacola wrote:
She is an American and you and your folks’ tactic to deAmericanize her is a tactic as old as this country. You’d be marching in the street for Prohibition right alongside the KKK, you’re in great company. I'm not so sure that she's going to be an American for long. And beyond that, I have zero patience for incorporating people into the American tent who hate the tent. The same goes for the other politicians who hate America, like AOC. These are people who need to be ridiculed, humiliated, and marginalized.
So to be an American you always have to be ok with how America is at that moment?
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On July 19 2019 01:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2019 01:16 xDaunt wrote:On July 19 2019 01:11 farvacola wrote:
She is an American and you and your folks’ tactic to deAmericanize her is a tactic as old as this country. You’d be marching in the street for Prohibition right alongside the KKK, you’re in great company. I'm not so sure that she's going to be an American for long. And beyond that, I have zero patience for incorporating people into the American tent who hate the tent. The same goes for the other politicians who hate America, like AOC. These are people who need to be ridiculed, humiliated, and marginalized. People who hate the worst parts of America and want to make America better are infinitely preferable to people who ignore, or worse absolve, those parts of America. You’re the furthest thing from a patriot. If you love your community you pick up the trash you see lying around, you don’t just get angry whenever anyone points out that there’s trash.
Indeed. The right REALLY loves to paint themselves as "AMERICA", meaning that everyone who does not agree with them hates america.
I see this as really disturbing in two ways: A) People think that anyone who has a different vision than them about where america should go HATES AMERICA, and B) "You hate america" is seen as a valid way to criticise anything. Suddenly there can be no dissenting voices anymore, because dissenting means that you hate america, which should probably be punishable by being driven out of the country to whatever country the last of your ancestors who isn't from america is from.
Good patriotism is trying to make your country the best it can be by improving it as best as possible. Which can involve political engagement to change the politics of your country. This is not that. A democracy flourishes best when there is a multitude of different opinions on how to run the country available for voters, and if there is a colourful national discussion about all sorts of topics, preferably one based on fact. As far as i understand, this is also at the core of american values. Claiming that your political opponents hate america does not fit within such a society.
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On July 19 2019 01:45 ShambhalaWar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2019 00:05 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 15:29 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 13:46 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 13:20 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 11:35 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 09:42 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 06:57 GreenHorizons wrote:I'm reminded of this article on why white (and/or white adjacent) people think there is "anti-whiteness" everywhere they look. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Equality can feel like oppression. But it’s not. What you’re feeling is just the discomfort of losing a little bit of your privilege — the same discomfort that an only child feels when she goes to preschool and discovers that there are other kids who want to play with the same toys as she does. All this anger we see from people screaming “All Lives Matter” in response to black protesters at rallies. All this anger we see from people insisting that their “religious freedom” is being infringed because a gay couple wants to get married . All these people angry about immigrants, angry about Muslims, angry about “Happy Holidays,” angry about not being able to say bigoted things without being called a bigot…+ Show Spoiler +They all basically boil down to people who have grown accustomed to walking straight at other folks, and expecting them to move. So when “those people” in their path don’t move — when those people start wondering, “Why am I always moving out of this guy’s way?”; when those people start asking themselves, “What if I didn’t move? What if I just kept walking too?”; when those people start believing that they have every bit as much right to that aisle as anyone else — it can seem like their rights are being taken away. They even see anti-white racism, divisive, fight-starting in capitalization while seeing white supremacist propaganda as conciliatory lol. You nailed it dude... I 1,000,000% agree with this.I as that as a milk-toast, Scotts-Irish, white ass American man. About 8 years ago I was confronted with the reality of my privilege and I did not want to accept it, but eventually did, and it opened my fucking eyes. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Equality requires the privileged to relinquish some of their power, most are unwilling to do that. When I was a little kid growing up on the east coast in the semi-south I used to think my black friends would lie about all the horrible shit that happened to them, I thought, "why do they make this stuff up?" Turns out I just never had to deal with it, so it was invisible to me... that is privilege. What power have you relinquished in order to work towards equality? I would say the first step, and probably the most important is simply acknowledging that I have privilege, and giving up my ignorance about my privilege. The nature of privilege is ignorance, the privileged people don't have to consider the problems other people do. So in regard to racial privilege, in acknowledging it I would think there comes some degree of commitment in calling it out when I see rather than just letting it slide because, "I'm white and it doesn't affect me." If I'm playing a game a CSGO and I hear the N word (happens all the time), rather than just be ok with that, I can at the very least confront them on it, and report the account. There are many different versions of that... for example is I see a nazi symbol written on a wall, I can get a pen and mark over it. Donate to a charity organization that combats racial inequality, march for black lives matter. I haven't done these latter two things, but for a lot of my black friends growing up I apologized for not believe them when we were kids, and tell them I believe them now. Small steps, but if all privileged people did that, the world would change. I thought there was more to privilege than that. You don't sound like someone who's given much of any thought to the subject. What's the point of your post? Are you actually curious about my experience or just want something to rail against? The post GH made that I quoted, you sound exactly like the type of person that post describes. Equality feels like oppression for you, that true for you or you just never even gave it a thought? No, I'm actually just surprised at how little privilege you actually had to relinquish. It's almost like you didn't have much power in the first place. You really stretched there, too, with the suggestion to donate to BLM. Giving away money counts as giving away power I guess. But maybe the metaphorical language doesn't really work? Why do you think this idea that giving up privilege feels like oppression resonates with you so much when your examples of giving up privilege are so lame? I can think of something else that might better describe the experience of 1) conversion to a cause, 2) spreading the good news to blasphemers, and 3) tithing — but "relinquishing power" isn't it. I'll ask again... What is the point of your post? Does Equality feel like oppression for you? And if you don't think money is power, you are incredibly naive.
I am trying to decide why this “relinquish (white) power” articulation seems so off to me. Who are the kind of people you imagine when you imagine indignant whites for whom giving up privilege feels like oppression? Are they people who can actually give up “power”? What kind of power do they have and don’t have, now, in 2019? And what kind of power do you gain as a “woke” white who can preach to others?
I feel obliged to point out that 1) I acknowledged that giving money might be some kind of “relinquishing power” although such language feels overwrought — I’m not sure why that would be different in kind from other charitable giving or why it would feel oppressive and 2) you said you haven’t actually given money to BLM so it seems fairly moot.
As for my personal opinion, no, equality doesn’t feel like oppression to me, hence my line of questioning. Personally, I am inclined more towards the idea of “recognition.”
edit: given that someone posted a Nazi talking about “race-recognition” while I was typing this post, I have to now clarify that I meant “recognition” in the sense of Hegel or Levinas: recognition of the subject. Not some scientistic recognition of race, which we want to deconstruct anyway right?
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On July 19 2019 02:35 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2019 01:45 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 19 2019 00:05 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 15:29 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 13:46 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 13:20 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 11:35 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 09:42 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 06:57 GreenHorizons wrote:I'm reminded of this article on why white (and/or white adjacent) people think there is "anti-whiteness" everywhere they look. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Equality can feel like oppression. But it’s not. What you’re feeling is just the discomfort of losing a little bit of your privilege — the same discomfort that an only child feels when she goes to preschool and discovers that there are other kids who want to play with the same toys as she does. All this anger we see from people screaming “All Lives Matter” in response to black protesters at rallies. All this anger we see from people insisting that their “religious freedom” is being infringed because a gay couple wants to get married . All these people angry about immigrants, angry about Muslims, angry about “Happy Holidays,” angry about not being able to say bigoted things without being called a bigot…+ Show Spoiler +They all basically boil down to people who have grown accustomed to walking straight at other folks, and expecting them to move. So when “those people” in their path don’t move — when those people start wondering, “Why am I always moving out of this guy’s way?”; when those people start asking themselves, “What if I didn’t move? What if I just kept walking too?”; when those people start believing that they have every bit as much right to that aisle as anyone else — it can seem like their rights are being taken away. They even see anti-white racism, divisive, fight-starting in capitalization while seeing white supremacist propaganda as conciliatory lol. You nailed it dude... I 1,000,000% agree with this.I as that as a milk-toast, Scotts-Irish, white ass American man. About 8 years ago I was confronted with the reality of my privilege and I did not want to accept it, but eventually did, and it opened my fucking eyes. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Equality requires the privileged to relinquish some of their power, most are unwilling to do that. When I was a little kid growing up on the east coast in the semi-south I used to think my black friends would lie about all the horrible shit that happened to them, I thought, "why do they make this stuff up?" Turns out I just never had to deal with it, so it was invisible to me... that is privilege. What power have you relinquished in order to work towards equality? I would say the first step, and probably the most important is simply acknowledging that I have privilege, and giving up my ignorance about my privilege. The nature of privilege is ignorance, the privileged people don't have to consider the problems other people do. So in regard to racial privilege, in acknowledging it I would think there comes some degree of commitment in calling it out when I see rather than just letting it slide because, "I'm white and it doesn't affect me." If I'm playing a game a CSGO and I hear the N word (happens all the time), rather than just be ok with that, I can at the very least confront them on it, and report the account. There are many different versions of that... for example is I see a nazi symbol written on a wall, I can get a pen and mark over it. Donate to a charity organization that combats racial inequality, march for black lives matter. I haven't done these latter two things, but for a lot of my black friends growing up I apologized for not believe them when we were kids, and tell them I believe them now. Small steps, but if all privileged people did that, the world would change. I thought there was more to privilege than that. You don't sound like someone who's given much of any thought to the subject. What's the point of your post? Are you actually curious about my experience or just want something to rail against? The post GH made that I quoted, you sound exactly like the type of person that post describes. Equality feels like oppression for you, that true for you or you just never even gave it a thought? No, I'm actually just surprised at how little privilege you actually had to relinquish. It's almost like you didn't have much power in the first place. You really stretched there, too, with the suggestion to donate to BLM. Giving away money counts as giving away power I guess. But maybe the metaphorical language doesn't really work? Why do you think this idea that giving up privilege feels like oppression resonates with you so much when your examples of giving up privilege are so lame? I can think of something else that might better describe the experience of 1) conversion to a cause, 2) spreading the good news to blasphemers, and 3) tithing — but "relinquishing power" isn't it. I'll ask again... What is the point of your post? Does Equality feel like oppression for you? And if you don't think money is power, you are incredibly naive. I am trying to decide why this “relinquish (white) power” articulation seems so off to me. Who are the kind of people you imagine when you imagine indignant whites for whom giving up privilege feels like oppression? Are they people who can actually give up “power”? What kind of power do they have and don’t have, now, in 2019? And what kind of power do you gain as a “woke” white who can preach to others? I feel obliged to point out that 1) I acknowledged that giving money might be some kind of “relinquishing power” although such language feels overwrought — I’m not sure why that would be different in kind from other charitable giving or why it would feel oppressive and 2) you said you haven’t actually given money to BLM so it seems fairly moot. As for my personal opinion, no, equality doesn’t feel like oppression to me, hence my line of questioning. Personally, I am inclined more towards the idea of “recognition.”
I would say being arrested at a peaceful protest would probably count as giving up power, right?
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We shouldn't even be engaging xDaunt's posts at this point. They are blatantly racist and ripped straight out of the "fascism 101" textbook. Engaging them just gives them credibility. As KwarK likes to say, these ideas should be ridiculed and mocked, not entertained like they have any legitimacy. xDaunt has demonstrated how terrible of a person he is and tolerating his comments on this site just make the community worse.
There's been a lot of leeway for very passionate and heated disagreements in this thread, but this shit's just gone too far.
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On July 19 2019 02:41 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2019 02:35 IgnE wrote:On July 19 2019 01:45 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 19 2019 00:05 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 15:29 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 13:46 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 13:20 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 11:35 IgnE wrote:On July 18 2019 09:42 ShambhalaWar wrote:On July 18 2019 06:57 GreenHorizons wrote:I'm reminded of this article on why white (and/or white adjacent) people think there is "anti-whiteness" everywhere they look. [quote] www.gcorr.orgThey even see anti-white racism, divisive, fight-starting in capitalization while seeing white supremacist propaganda as conciliatory lol. You nailed it dude... I 1,000,000% agree with this.I as that as a milk-toast, Scotts-Irish, white ass American man. About 8 years ago I was confronted with the reality of my privilege and I did not want to accept it, but eventually did, and it opened my fucking eyes. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Equality requires the privileged to relinquish some of their power, most are unwilling to do that. When I was a little kid growing up on the east coast in the semi-south I used to think my black friends would lie about all the horrible shit that happened to them, I thought, "why do they make this stuff up?" Turns out I just never had to deal with it, so it was invisible to me... that is privilege. What power have you relinquished in order to work towards equality? I would say the first step, and probably the most important is simply acknowledging that I have privilege, and giving up my ignorance about my privilege. The nature of privilege is ignorance, the privileged people don't have to consider the problems other people do. So in regard to racial privilege, in acknowledging it I would think there comes some degree of commitment in calling it out when I see rather than just letting it slide because, "I'm white and it doesn't affect me." If I'm playing a game a CSGO and I hear the N word (happens all the time), rather than just be ok with that, I can at the very least confront them on it, and report the account. There are many different versions of that... for example is I see a nazi symbol written on a wall, I can get a pen and mark over it. Donate to a charity organization that combats racial inequality, march for black lives matter. I haven't done these latter two things, but for a lot of my black friends growing up I apologized for not believe them when we were kids, and tell them I believe them now. Small steps, but if all privileged people did that, the world would change. I thought there was more to privilege than that. You don't sound like someone who's given much of any thought to the subject. What's the point of your post? Are you actually curious about my experience or just want something to rail against? The post GH made that I quoted, you sound exactly like the type of person that post describes. Equality feels like oppression for you, that true for you or you just never even gave it a thought? No, I'm actually just surprised at how little privilege you actually had to relinquish. It's almost like you didn't have much power in the first place. You really stretched there, too, with the suggestion to donate to BLM. Giving away money counts as giving away power I guess. But maybe the metaphorical language doesn't really work? Why do you think this idea that giving up privilege feels like oppression resonates with you so much when your examples of giving up privilege are so lame? I can think of something else that might better describe the experience of 1) conversion to a cause, 2) spreading the good news to blasphemers, and 3) tithing — but "relinquishing power" isn't it. I'll ask again... What is the point of your post? Does Equality feel like oppression for you? And if you don't think money is power, you are incredibly naive. I am trying to decide why this “relinquish (white) power” articulation seems so off to me. Who are the kind of people you imagine when you imagine indignant whites for whom giving up privilege feels like oppression? Are they people who can actually give up “power”? What kind of power do they have and don’t have, now, in 2019? And what kind of power do you gain as a “woke” white who can preach to others? I feel obliged to point out that 1) I acknowledged that giving money might be some kind of “relinquishing power” although such language feels overwrought — I’m not sure why that would be different in kind from other charitable giving or why it would feel oppressive and 2) you said you haven’t actually given money to BLM so it seems fairly moot. As for my personal opinion, no, equality doesn’t feel like oppression to me, hence my line of questioning. Personally, I am inclined more towards the idea of “recognition.” I would say being arrested at a peaceful protest would probably count as giving up power, right?
That seems like a high bar. I am not disputing that a few individuals have made real sacrifices to work towards equality. I am rather more interested in the quotidian ways that this discourse plays out across uneven networks of power. See CosmicSpiral’s earlier post(s).
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On July 19 2019 02:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:
We shouldn't even be engaging xDaunt's posts at this point. They are blatantly racist and ripped straight out of the "fascism 101" textbook. Engaging them just gives them credibility. As KwarK likes to say, these ideas should be ridiculed and mocked, not entertained like they have any legitimacy. xDaunt has demonstrated how terrible of a person he is and tolerating his comments on this site just make the community worse.
There's been a lot of leeway for very passionate and heated disagreements in this thread, but this shit's just gone too far.
Yeah, I just don't understand the double standard of wanting to remove Democrats or immigrants or racial minorities from the United States when they don't like the current state of our country, but supporting Trump when his literal campaign slogan- Make America Great Again- was all about changing the current state of our country. Apparently, Trump's citizenship should have been revoked for his slogan, instead of him being elected president.
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On July 19 2019 02:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2019 02:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:
We shouldn't even be engaging xDaunt's posts at this point. They are blatantly racist and ripped straight out of the "fascism 101" textbook. Engaging them just gives them credibility. As KwarK likes to say, these ideas should be ridiculed and mocked, not entertained like they have any legitimacy. xDaunt has demonstrated how terrible of a person he is and tolerating his comments on this site just make the community worse.
There's been a lot of leeway for very passionate and heated disagreements in this thread, but this shit's just gone too far. Yeah, I just don't understand the double standard of wanting to remove Democrats or immigrants or racial minorities from the United States when they don't like the current state of our country, but supporting Trump when his literal campaign slogan- Make America Great Again- was all about changing the current state of our country. Apparently, Trump's citizenship should have been revoked for his slogan, instead of him being elected president.
Please don't, because apparently if you make him go back to somewhere, that would need to be Germany. After all, according to Trump himself, his father was from Germany. And we REALLY don't want him here.
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EPT
