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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1459

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
May 15 2019 17:02 GMT
#29161
People in power are repeating the Bush strategy of going to war so they can try to win the second election. I don't think a lot of real conservatives are happy with this move.
Life?
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 15 2019 17:52 GMT
#29162
--- Nuked ---
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 15 2019 17:54 GMT
#29163
I love being in a state where we are not sure if the president wants to go to war or not and congress doesn't get to make that call.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Taelshin
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada419 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-15 18:09:00
May 15 2019 18:07 GMT
#29164
Yeah Obama didn't seem like a warmonger to me initially, Called that one wrong. We'll see what Trump does. If he starts a war I think he will lose in 2020.
"We didnt listen"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 15 2019 18:12 GMT
#29165
As much as I dislike Obama's policy on drone strikes, he was a step up from the previous administration starting two wars, one which we are still stuck in.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Taelshin
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada419 Posts
May 15 2019 18:29 GMT
#29166
100% agree bush was also a disaster.
"We didnt listen"
ShambhalaWar
Profile Joined August 2013
United States930 Posts
May 15 2019 19:36 GMT
#29167
On May 12 2019 00:01 semantics wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2019 15:12 ShambhalaWar wrote:
I like Andrew Yang, he is very interesting in his ideas, and nobody else is talking about universal basic income as a leading issue. Eventually we will all have to get there as automation removes the ability for poeople to create meaningful income.

But I do think it's a little premature. Though... Universal basic income I think would seriously inject the economy and keep it strong for a long time.

Keeping all that in mind,l Bernie 2020.

I work with robotic arms in a factory all day, i talked with integrators and engineers it'd still be a long time before we could somehow eliminate the remaining industrial jobs. Making something even if one step uses a robot there are 10 steps before that step and 10 steps after that you either need to automate as well or just have a person do it. Automation frees up available man hours to expand productivity, there will still be a need for a minimum amount of people. Increased productivity will lead to jobs somewhere eventually at least for the foreseeable future. A progressive tax to reduce the concentrated wealth is far more relevant to today than worrying about automation "killing" jobs.



I think you are underestimating the greed of people, amazon go stores are a prime (pun intended) example. Some people work there, but the point of the store is to monetize more, through less overhead of employing workers.

As technology advances (which is an exponential advance) the requirement of labor decreases.

Eventually we will be there, we aren't fully there now... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't start thinking about it. A "long-time" is a very subjective statement, and when we get there if we haven't prepared it will be a large scale humanitarian disaster.
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
May 15 2019 19:47 GMT
#29168
On May 16 2019 03:12 Plansix wrote:
As much as I dislike Obama's policy on drone strikes, he was a step up from the previous administration starting two wars, one which we are still stuck in.

Well Obama was about avoiding boots on the ground but never blinked when it came to start bombing shit. Doesn't prevent a costly war just avoids death toll numbers
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-15 19:51:54
May 15 2019 19:50 GMT
#29169
On May 16 2019 04:36 ShambhalaWar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2019 00:01 semantics wrote:
On May 11 2019 15:12 ShambhalaWar wrote:
I like Andrew Yang, he is very interesting in his ideas, and nobody else is talking about universal basic income as a leading issue. Eventually we will all have to get there as automation removes the ability for poeople to create meaningful income.

But I do think it's a little premature. Though... Universal basic income I think would seriously inject the economy and keep it strong for a long time.

Keeping all that in mind,l Bernie 2020.

I work with robotic arms in a factory all day, i talked with integrators and engineers it'd still be a long time before we could somehow eliminate the remaining industrial jobs. Making something even if one step uses a robot there are 10 steps before that step and 10 steps after that you either need to automate as well or just have a person do it. Automation frees up available man hours to expand productivity, there will still be a need for a minimum amount of people. Increased productivity will lead to jobs somewhere eventually at least for the foreseeable future. A progressive tax to reduce the concentrated wealth is far more relevant to today than worrying about automation "killing" jobs.



I think you are underestimating the greed of people, amazon go stores are a prime (pun intended) example. Some people work there, but the point of the store is to monetize more, through less overhead of employing workers.

As technology advances (which is an exponential advance) the requirement of labor decreases.

Eventually we will be there, we aren't fully there now... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't start thinking about it. A "long-time" is a very subjective statement, and when we get there if we haven't prepared it will be a large scale humanitarian disaster.

Companies wouldn't make money if they put everyone out of business and hired next to no one. There wouldn't be a market to sell things to begin with because everyone wouldn't be able to afford things due to no jobs.

That's were I think about concentrated wealth more than automation. Because finance exists and finance is the only place where money makes more money while it produces and sells nothing.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 15 2019 20:24 GMT
#29170
--- Nuked ---
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23426 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-15 21:09:37
May 15 2019 21:09 GMT
#29171
Yeah I think Obama helped get us up to 7 or so countries we were actively dropping bombs in ourselves, more if you add countries dropping bombs with our help/equipment.

The US killed/helped kill a lot of innocent people over the last decade or so, but rather than victims of western terrorism we (in the west) call those people "collateral damage".
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
BlueBird.
Profile Joined August 2008
United States3889 Posts
May 15 2019 23:07 GMT
#29172
On May 16 2019 04:50 semantics wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2019 04:36 ShambhalaWar wrote:
On May 12 2019 00:01 semantics wrote:
On May 11 2019 15:12 ShambhalaWar wrote:
I like Andrew Yang, he is very interesting in his ideas, and nobody else is talking about universal basic income as a leading issue. Eventually we will all have to get there as automation removes the ability for poeople to create meaningful income.

But I do think it's a little premature. Though... Universal basic income I think would seriously inject the economy and keep it strong for a long time.

Keeping all that in mind,l Bernie 2020.

I work with robotic arms in a factory all day, i talked with integrators and engineers it'd still be a long time before we could somehow eliminate the remaining industrial jobs. Making something even if one step uses a robot there are 10 steps before that step and 10 steps after that you either need to automate as well or just have a person do it. Automation frees up available man hours to expand productivity, there will still be a need for a minimum amount of people. Increased productivity will lead to jobs somewhere eventually at least for the foreseeable future. A progressive tax to reduce the concentrated wealth is far more relevant to today than worrying about automation "killing" jobs.



I think you are underestimating the greed of people, amazon go stores are a prime (pun intended) example. Some people work there, but the point of the store is to monetize more, through less overhead of employing workers.

As technology advances (which is an exponential advance) the requirement of labor decreases.

Eventually we will be there, we aren't fully there now... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't start thinking about it. A "long-time" is a very subjective statement, and when we get there if we haven't prepared it will be a large scale humanitarian disaster.

Companies wouldn't make money if they put everyone out of business and hired next to no one. There wouldn't be a market to sell things to begin with because everyone wouldn't be able to afford things due to no jobs.

That's were I think about concentrated wealth more than automation. Because finance exists and finance is the only place where money makes more money while it produces and sells nothing.


Companies don’t care. As long as projections show increasing profits due to automation they will do so. Corporations are numbers on a spreadsheet not people. They aren’t going to decide to change their course of action because some people are going to be put out of work. Some types of business will feel the pain sooner rather than later if purchasing power of average people lowers due to mass unemployment.

The idea that they won’t automate due to some future externalities that will cost their future bottom line is silly though, otherwise almost every single business would be doing the opposite of what they’ve been doing to our planet. Money now is worth more than money later.
Currently Playing: Android Netrunner, Gwent, Gloomhaven, Board Games
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
May 16 2019 02:23 GMT
#29173
On May 16 2019 02:54 Plansix wrote:
I love being in a state where we are not sure if the president wants to go to war or not and congress doesn't get to make that call.


Also great to see the administration presenting a united front on matters of war. The commander in chief disagrees with the war planning that's occurring in his administration. Sounds like all is under control.

President Trump is frustrated with some of his top advisers, who he thinks could rush the United States into a military confrontation with Iran and shatter his long-standing pledge to withdraw from costly foreign wars, according to several U.S. officials. Trump prefers a diplomatic approach to resolving tensions and wants to speak directly with Iran’s leaders.

Disagreements over assessing and responding to the recent intelligence...are also fraying alliances with foreign allies, according to multiple officials in the United States and Europe.

Trump grew angry last week and over the weekend about what he sees as warlike planning that is getting ahead of his own thinking, said a senior administration official with knowledge of conversations Trump had regarding national security adviser John Bolton and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.


www.washingtonpost.com
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-16 03:33:50
May 16 2019 03:26 GMT
#29174
I honestly hope he gets rid of Bolton. In some ways I think Bolton is scarier than Trump. He has made it clear that he wants confrontation, especially with Iran, and it does seem like he is trying to push this war through against basically what everyone else involved in the conflicts in the region recommends. He came into the job being known as a war hawk and it seems like ever since he took over it's been escalation after escalation, but never with any clear proof with his claims about the country he wants to fight (even the evidence he's putting forth about Iran so far is quite shaky and heavily disputed by the US' allies). He was also one of the people who pushed the WMDs in Iraq narrative quite hard back in the early 2000s and it became clear later that those claims were completely wrong.

I recommend checking out Bolton's wikipedia page for a bit more context. It is quite well sourced and puts a lot of perspective into what kind of person he is. He seems like he should not be a person making decisions about potential conflicts, or really in charge of other people at all. The section in the wiki about his senate confirmation for a position in the UN in 2005 is particularly damning. He never got confirmed and this was with Republican senators basically saying it would be hard for him not to get confirmed since they had the majority, but things went so bad that he lost support of a lot of Republicans too.

This is quite troubling for me:
On April 20, it emerged that Melody Townsel, a former USAID contractor, had reported to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that Bolton had used inflammatory language and thrown objects in the course of her work activities in Moscow. Townsel's encounter with Bolton occurred when she served as a whistleblower against a poorly performing minority contractor for USAID, IBTCI. Townsel told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee staff that Bolton had made derogatory remarks about her sexual orientation and weight, among other workplace improprieties. In an official interview with Senate Foreign Relation Committee staff, Townsel detailed her accusations against Bolton, which were confirmed by Canadian designer Uno Ramat, who had served as an IBTCI employee and one of Townsel's AID colleagues. Time magazine, among other publications, verified Townsel's accusations and Ramat's supporting testimony, and Townsel's story was transcribed and entered into the official Senate committee record. Townsel, who was an employee of Young & Rubicam at the time of her encounter with Bolton, continued working for the company on a variety of other USAID projects.
Someone with that temper and lack of self control should not be making any type of important decision. This type of behaviour is mentioned several times in the senate confirmation section. He sucks up to people above him in the chain of command and treats everyone below him like absolute shit.

Pompeo, on the other hand, just comes off as completely inept at the job he is in right now. Everything the Trump Administration has tried to do with North Korea appears to have completely fallen apart, and the North Koreans specifically mentioned Pompeo as not being careful or mature enough to deal with.

I have to think Trump is regretting losing Mattis at this point. Mattis at least had some degree of respectability, and had actual military experience, unlike Bolton.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 16 2019 04:20 GMT
#29175
--- Nuked ---
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-16 08:51:32
May 16 2019 08:00 GMT
#29176
On May 16 2019 13:20 JimmiC wrote:
I don't know if this makes Trump better or worse but he sure doesn't hide from his love of corrupt rich dudes. I think you would find Canadians who would agree with this. But now is definitely the time to be rich and in Jail, perhaps the Enron guys can grab a pardon soon.


https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/trump-pardons-ex-media-mogul-conrad-black/ar-AABqFJ4?li=AAggNb9

Black, who has called Trump a friend, published a book last year praising him, titled "Donald J. Trump: A President Like No Other."

You can't make this up. Just write a book of praise and your crimes will fade away. Not to mention the crimes conveniently are fraud and obstruction of justice.
Neosteel Enthusiast
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9710 Posts
May 16 2019 08:02 GMT
#29177
On May 16 2019 17:00 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2019 13:20 JimmiC wrote:
I don't know if this makes Trump better or worse but he sure doesn't hide from his love of corrupt rich dudes. I think you would find Canadians who would agree with this. But now is definitely the time to be rich and in Jail, perhaps the Enron guys can grab a pardon soon.


https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/trump-pardons-ex-media-mogul-conrad-black/ar-AABqFJ4?li=AAggNb9

Black, who has called Trump a friend, published a book last year praising him, titled "Donald J. Trump: A President Like No Other."

You can't make this up. Just write a book of praise and your crimes will fade away


That's how easy it is to manipulate someone like Trump.
No wonder the security services see him as a national security risk.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17386 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-16 09:17:39
May 16 2019 09:12 GMT
#29178
Trump is getting really active recently...


President Donald Trump on Wednesday declared a national emergency over threats against American technology, the White House said.
The move, done via executive order, is expected to precede a ban on U.S. firms doing business with the Chinese telecommunications company Huawei.
The announcement comes as the U.S and China remain locked in a trade dispute.


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/15/trump-signs-executive-order-declaring-national-emergency-over-threats-against-us-technology.html

On May 16 2019 11:23 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2019 02:54 Plansix wrote:
I love being in a state where we are not sure if the president wants to go to war or not and congress doesn't get to make that call.


Also great to see the administration presenting a united front on matters of war. The commander in chief disagrees with the war planning that's occurring in his administration. Sounds like all is under control.

Show nested quote +
President Trump is frustrated with some of his top advisers, who he thinks could rush the United States into a military confrontation with Iran and shatter his long-standing pledge to withdraw from costly foreign wars, according to several U.S. officials. Trump prefers a diplomatic approach to resolving tensions and wants to speak directly with Iran’s leaders.

Disagreements over assessing and responding to the recent intelligence...are also fraying alliances with foreign allies, according to multiple officials in the United States and Europe.

Trump grew angry last week and over the weekend about what he sees as warlike planning that is getting ahead of his own thinking, said a senior administration official with knowledge of conversations Trump had regarding national security adviser John Bolton and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.


www.washingtonpost.com


Sadly I don't think USA can really back out of foreign conflicts (at the moment it's 7 official wars and over a hundred other military operations). The military industry is tied too tight to their overall economy and lobbies.

User was warned for this post: Please fully heed the mod note
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4348 Posts
May 16 2019 10:35 GMT
#29179
On May 16 2019 03:12 Plansix wrote:
As much as I dislike Obama's policy on drone strikes, he was a step up from the previous administration starting two wars, one which we are still stuck in.

The 2011 attacks on Libya were a bit more than just drone strikes.... No congressional approval there either from what i recall.

Trump is impossible to predict.Great strides have been made in Syria, hopefully conflict can be avoided in Iran and Venezuela.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 16 2019 11:24 GMT
#29180
--- Nuked ---
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