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On March 16 2019 00:31 Danglars wrote:
The whole manifesto is a meme/troll. Don’t fall into the trap of reading the seal team copypasta literally (“Not only Candace Owens, but he has a Navy Seal upbringing! More US-based anti-Muslim violence!!!.) An evil memester wants to further ideological divides.
Candace Owens in her own right has been saying crazy and edgy stuff for a while now. This fits.
The manifesto also cited Pewdiepie. Just in case people are somehow inclined to take his manifesto at face value.
Who is pewdiepie? I guess from the name, he is a rapper or a tv celebrity. Was he cited as an inspiration as well? Did he/she give a response as well??
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On March 16 2019 00:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 00:31 Danglars wrote:
The whole manifesto is a meme/troll. Don’t fall into the trap of reading the seal team copypasta literally (“Not only Candace Owens, but he has a Navy Seal upbringing! More US-based anti-Muslim violence!!!.) An evil memester wants to further ideological divides.
Candace Owens in her own right has been saying crazy and edgy stuff for a while now. This fits.
The manifesto also cited Pewdiepie. Just in case people are somehow inclined to take his manifesto at face value. Who is pewdiepie? I guess from the name, he is a rapper or a tv celebrity. Was he cited as an inspiration as well? Did he/she give a response as well??
He is a streamer. One of the most popular ones at that
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His manifesto quite accurately portrays the type of rhetoric you will find on fairly large communities of extremists like him such as 8chan, pol, the_donald, certain parts of youtube that others have mentioned and many more. Hiding behind memes and 'it's just a joke' is an integral part of those communities. It's a joke until it isn't.
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On March 16 2019 00:56 Dan HH wrote:
His manifesto quite accurately portrays the type of rhetoric you will find on fairly large communities of extremists like him such as 8chan, pol, the_donald, certain parts of youtube that others have mentioned and many more. Hiding behind memes and 'it's just a joke' is an integral part of those communities. It's a joke until it isn't.
Its not a joke at all if its making its way into the real world
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Enter Schrodinger's asshole, the dude who decides whether the offensive thing he said was a joke or not depending on the reaction he gets for saying it. If people agree, clearly he meant it, if people disagree, it was just a joke, libs are so easily triggered am I right.
These places are not the worst parts of the internet, cause there are places where people know you mean it. But they are the worst easily accessible places of internet. To end up in one of the worse places, you first have to have been exposed to something else. And more often than not it will be one of the places where everything is ironic until it's not.
It was already bad enough when it was 4 and 8chan. Now Youtube can play the same role, and does. To be honest I'm surprised we don't have more mass shooters, my guess is a lot of these people perceive the far right will simply win politically and therefore they don't have to use these tactics.
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United States43984 Posts
On March 16 2019 00:17 xDaunt wrote:
Her response is in bad taste, but she's not wrong. The fact that she's named as an "inspiration" for the attack is ludicrous on its face, even if the shooter named her.
I don’t follow. Do you think the shooter is lying about his inspiration in some kind of false flag thing? Or do you acknowledge that he felt inspired by her but think he totally got the wrong idea.
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On March 16 2019 01:23 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 00:17 xDaunt wrote:
Her response is in bad taste, but she's not wrong. The fact that she's named as an "inspiration" for the attack is ludicrous on its face, even if the shooter named her. I don’t follow. Do you think the shooter is lying about his inspiration in some kind of false flag thing? Or do you acknowledge that he felt inspired by her but think he totally got the wrong idea.
I think that that the shooter mentioned her just to troll and gaslight everyone as opposed to sincerely stating the source of a belief or motivation. This interpretation is very strongly supported by the shooter's comments about the Second Amendment.
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To xdaunt and Danglars, a simple question: what do you beleive are the (political) motivations of the shooter?
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On March 16 2019 01:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
To xdaunt and Danglars, a simple question: what do you beleive are the motivations of the shooter?
I think you should have included political motivation. His motivation was to quite clearly kill asanh as possible. But what do those two you posited the question to, think his political motivation is.
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The shooter from his posts on 8chan and the manifesto believed that whites would be breeded out of existence, something Owens has tweeted about. He references "The Great Replacment," which is a view held by Trumps "fine people," like those at Charlottesville.
Oh and he cited Trump as "a symbol of renewed white identity " in his manifesto. Ofc there is no way that could be true based on Trumps words and actions. No basis in reality for that, so it must be a troll. /s
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Yeah I find troll to be the wrong word here. A troll is somebody who posts dumb shit on the internet, big difference between that and somebody who actually acts on their crazy beliefs violently
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So let me understand this, despite his crimes fitting the manifesto perfectly, its more believable to some that this person just slaughtered 47 people for the luls and ppsted the manifesto as an elaborate troll?
Even though I understand the psychological phenomenon that is going on in this regard (disequilibrium. Basically when we encounter information contrary to our schema/worldview we either adapt the schema or more commonly dismiss the new information until it happens so often the former occurs), I still am stunned seeing it in action. Like its easier to accept its a massive conspiracy than accept this guy is a right-wing terrorist who took all those postings seriously.
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His intent was obviously to save the white race and further a white nationalist agenda. It's possible that even though that was his intent, some of the things in his manifesto weren't serious, and that's what xDaunt is driving at.
For example, if he had said "I'm doing this because I've started to listen to Hillary Clinton and I liked her speech about killing muslims", it wouldn't be logical to attack Hillary Clinton for it, because that speech doesn't exist.
What Owens is trying to do is say her situation is the same as Hillary Clinton's in the analogy I just made. xDaunt is hinting at the same line of argumentation. Unfortunately for them both, Candace Owens is not Hillary Clinton: she has talked about white genocide, as On_Slaught mentioned. If your intent was to troll and smear someone, you wouldn't pick an ideological ally, not even one who is obviously grifting.
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Shooter lists off all the things he wants people to screech about after his act. All the idiots readily comply.
It’s the Charles Manson shit for a different age. I think we’re all collectively dumber than that age when it comes right down to it. This kind of reaction (and I’m talking about the two threads as a microcosm) will probably inspire more.
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The manifesto can still be a troll while the guys beliefs aren't a troll. He's clearly a right wing terrorist but that doesn't mean he can't write a piece of nonsense. I don't think people should be attacked because some fuckwad writes their name as inspiration.
Attack people on the hateful things they say but not on something like this.
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On March 16 2019 02:18 Danglars wrote:
Shooter lists off all the things he wants people to screech about after his act. All the idiots readily comply.
It’s the Charles Manson shit for a different age. I think we’re all collectively dumber than that age when it comes right down to it. This kind of reaction (and I’m talking about the two threads as a microcosm) will probably inspire more.
Just no. Right wing shock jocks like Owens and "news orgs" like Brietbart and Fox inspire shit like this by continuing to spread lies, hate, and fear.
This is pretty fucked up deflection.
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On March 16 2019 02:18 Danglars wrote:
Shooter lists off all the things he wants people to screech about after his act. All the idiots readily comply.
It’s the Charles Manson shit for a different age. I think we’re all collectively dumber than that age when it comes right down to it. This kind of reaction (and I’m talking about the two threads as a microcosm) will probably inspire more.
Yes, you're right, what will inspire more people to kill in the name of white genocide is not the far right spreading conspiracy theories online about how white genocide is totally a real thing to a massive audience of impressionnable young men, it's the left reacting angrily against people who consistently flirt with fascist views after a fascist mass shooter mentions their name as influences regarding said mass shooting.
It's good that you have your priorities in order.
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On March 16 2019 02:21 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
The manifesto can still be a troll while the guys beliefs aren't a troll. He's clearly a right wing terrorist but that doesn't mean he can't write a piece of nonsense. I don't think people should be attacked because some fuckwad writes their name as inspiration.
Attack people on the hateful things they say but not on something like this.
These people are being attacked on the hateful things they say. It's just now people get to go, "hey look you said this hateful thing and then this person did the thing you implied while mentioning you by name".
Even if the mention is ironic or trolling... *he still did the thing*. So it's kinda baffling to try to wriggle a disconnection in between the two things. The % irony of the thing is perhaps the least relevant and limpest take you could possibly have on the whole situation.
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