Figured it was time for someone to make one of those e-cigarette threads on here, now that we’re really reaching the mainstream here. It’s a fun hobby, and an excellent alternative to smoking – (1) Estimated at 1% the damage of cigarettes, (2) significantly cheaper, (3) no bad smell, (4) 100x the smoke cloud of an analog cigarette
Only recently have the improvements in battery technology allowed the now popular vaping to exist, and hence why it’s a new development. In the US an estimated 3.7% of adults vape, versus around 15% who smoke, so if you haven’t already, it’s the perfect time to kick the habit.
Components of a modern vape:
Mod: This is the box that holds the lithium batteries and has the safety circuits to prevent it from blowing up, as well as control the voltage and current to match the resistance of your coil. For vapes not from the dollar store, these will have an LCD/LED screen, a few buttons, and a charging port. You can adjust your power (wattage), type of coil, puff counter, type of vape mode, etc.
-Batteries: Almost all the mods support the 18650 (18mm diam and 65mm length) lithium ion battery size, which is standard throughout the car and other battery industries. Mods support anywhere from 1-4 of these batteries. More batteries means a higher capacity, and a higher maximum power output (as batteries are limited by their discharge current, around 20A for modern batteries). Generally 1 battery mods will be capable of 40-80W max power, 2 batteries 150-220W, 3 batteries 250-320W, 4 batteries 300-350W. Most people don’t get larger battery mods for the power, but rather the expanded capacity. -Atomizer: This is the component that heats the e-juice, and turns it from a liquid to a gas through vaporization (not combustion). It does this using the principle of an incandescent lightbulb. Putting current through a resistor that is submerged in the liquid, usually made of kanthal (iron, chromium, and aluminium alloy), stainless steel, nickel, or titanium. The atomizer has several components:
1) Tank: Now it depends on your setup, there’s a few different kinds, RDA, RTA, RDTA, etc… But an RTA is the most practical for all but enthusiasts. Tanks that store your e-liquid come in sizes of usually 2-6mL of e-liquid.
2) Coils: Current runs through the coil, with time these will wear out and need to be replaced. Generally speaking, 3-4 weeks is the average recommended time for coils, but of course it depends on your frequency of vaping, wattage when vaping, material of coils, etc. A replacement coil usually costs around $5.
3) Cotton: If you have a tank and you purchase new coils, then the cotton which is used as a wick for the e-liquid is already there. However, if you purchase an RDA or RDTA, then you need to buy wire and wrap your own coils, as well as purchase your own cotton. It can save some money in the long term, and allows more customization.
E-Juice: This is the liquid that’s vaporized and inhaled. Almost all juices will have a base being a mixture propylene glycol (PG) and vegetable glycerin (VG). PG has been around for a long time, used as the chemical in smoke machines to produce smoke, and hence has been extensively studied, it’s less viscous, generally known to dissolve flavors better, and provides a bigger throat hit. VG is extensively used in the food industry as a solvent and sweetener, as well as pharmaceuticals, for example the base of body soap. VG is very viscous, sweeter, provides a thicker vapor, and feels smoother when inhaled. Due to the higher viscosity, it clogs up the coils and cotton a little bit more, as well as due to its sweetness it crystalizes on the cotton, and therefore the higher the VG mixture, the more often the coils will need to be replaced. Most commercial e-juices will be a mixture of 50-80% VG and 50-20% PG. There are other bases that exist like PEG400, but don’t worry about these, as 99.9% use a mixture of VG and PG.
Nicotine is an optional addition, and is measured in mg per mL, though in the industry, the per mL is usually dropped. Nicotine provides a bit of a throat hit that some appreciate, and helps alleviate cravings that ex-smokers will have. An e-liquid is mixed with a ratio of a highly concentrated solution of nicotine (which is also dissolved in VG or PG). Common concentration for e-liquid are 0, 1.5, 3, 6, 12mg, though it’s not difficult to spike differently by yourself, or in the store you’re purchasing at. A cigarette results in an absorption of around 0.9-1.0mg of nicotine, and from that, a smoker can choose his initial concentration. Studies suggest around 75% of the nicotine in e-cigarettes is absorbed, and it’s recommended that you start a little bit higher than your smoking nicotine levels because vaping doesn’t have additives that hasten absorption and open the airways, like ammonia. It depends on how much you vape, but for me and my peers, we vaped around 3mL’s when we started. Generally it goes:
1 pack+ per day = 12mg ½ pack per day = 6mg ¼ pack per day = 3mg
Any less and you wont have a strong physical dependence, so maybe you want some for the taste. Long time vapers usually settle for 3mg as the sweet spot for the taste, but it really depends on you. I started at 6mg, and right now I do 4.5mg. If you need, you can go higher, though the taste will start to degrade due to a higher concentration of nicotine, and really it would only be recommended as temporary switch to subdue cravings. Going a bit higher doesn’t hurt, as I’ve had friends who choose too low of concentrations to start with, and it’s not enough for them to stop smoking, and then you end up doing both, eek.
Now the last thing that goes into the E-juice is the flavoring themselves. These are created in the lab, and don’t require any ingredient stickers, so if there is harm to vaping, this is where it would be. Traces of a couple PPM of diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, and acetoin occasionally appear, these have unconfirmed health effects, so its better to be careful and play it safe when you can. That would mean pick juices that are tasted at independent labs, trying to pick the more natural flavors, etc. There are thousands of flavors of out there, as mixing your own e-juice is very easy, it creates low barrier to entry, and mark up on them is high.
Cost of Vaping
For most people vaping will be significantly cheaper than smoking, for some very dedicated sub-ohm vapers buying premium juice, it can potentially get very expensive ($20/day), so breaking down the costs in USD. Upfront costs will be $40-$80 on the kit (mod and atomizer combo), I recommend getting a nice one to save money down the road. A classic go to is the Smok Alien 220W, 2 batteries is an ideal tradeoff between capacity and portability, and 220W will be sufficient power for almost every vaper forever. You’ll need to purchase batteries, generally around $15 per pop, so add $30 there if you’ll be going down the 2-battery mod route. As mentioned previously, you’ll need replacement coils, so I’d get a 5-pack for $20-$25. This depends on the exact brand you go with, after much research I am a fan of Smok (and also since they are so popular they’re available everywhere), and the exact atomizer you go for. For example, Smok has 3 different sizes, based on the different tank sizes you go for. So around $5/month there. Juice will be the largest cost. A moderate vaper (so someone who isn’t just sitting at their computer and vaping the whole day) will go through 3-5mL per day. A 60mL bottle usually costs $25-$30 for the brand ones, though many vape shops offer discounted brands they mix themselves for closer to $20. Either way, it will cost you around $1-$2.5/day. Much cheaper than smoking, but you can save 70-90% by making the juice yourself (like me). Outside the realm of this initial post, as I want to keep it simple. If you end up making your juice, remember the words, “measure by weight, not volume”, will make it much easier for you.
I think that covers everything I wanted to cover on a basic level, I’ll be happy to answer some questions, and if anyone feels like anything is missing OP, feel free to mention it, or write it yourself and I’ll happily add it in (unless it’s stupid ). Just wanted to get a discussion going here, it’s a fun hobby, lots of subtleties, and discussing some flavors we mixed or purchased will be fun and helpful. See if any deals come up, stuff like that, generally teamliquid can be trusted pretty well in threads like these to be objective, so I like taking this kind of information from the forums rather than what I see on a youtube video.
Speaking of youtube videos, my two favorite most educational channels would probably be "The Straight Vape" and "IndoorSmokers", if vaping interests you, I'd probably start there.
Post your setup and collection! Cheers and happy vaping!
On September 25 2017 15:17 xM(Z wrote: is this only for glorifying vapers/vaping or can we bash them/the habit into submission?.
What bothers you about it? The culture or getting smoke blown into your face by some jerks? Since if it's the culture, I don't think it's very fair, because there's a minority culture (kind of like in that video I linked at the bottom of the OP) that comes off very strong... But there's many other kinds of people who do it. You see it twitch streamers have them on their desks all the time, corporate workers, party girls, coders, and hell, I even see it outside of the gym.
The laws are currently different everywhere, but I do think that the governments are taking too harsh a stance against it... And I think it's largely because people see lots of "smoke" and they just automatically assume it is very bad for you or douchey.
Naturally the research about the health effects will be limited as it's such a new technology, but there's been next to no conclusive evidence about its health impacts. By not having combustion you reduce all of those random by products which you don't even know about. You have 98% of your solution be food grade stuff that's been around for a long time, you have nicotine yes, but it's not linked to cancer. And then you have some additives for flavor, but most of these companies creating flavors have been creating food flavoring or cosmetics for a while. The health aspect of it doesn't compare to analog cigarettes.
As a society, the average person should be able to appreciate that we will be able to lower our healthcare costs, have less cigarette butt litter, not have second have smoke, etc.
the video gives "playback disabled by owner". i won't call it a culture; a fad would suffice. i'm more of a functionalist myself so i don't see the point of it. mainly, what does smoking do and not what smoking is made of; what is its function?.
i don't mid the smoke but i do think the ones blowing it are assholes; not because they're blowing the smoke but because there is no reason(i don't see one) to blow the smoke. when energy is spent on useless habits(gives no returns, gains) i get triggered because energy is finite and spending it in vain, is a crime. (all of that is apart from the practicality of it)
On September 25 2017 15:46 xM(Z wrote: the video gives "playback disabled by owner". i won't call it a culture; a fad would suffice. i'm more of a functionalist myself so i don't see the point of it. mainly, what does smoking do and not what smoking is made of; what is its function?.
i don't mid the smoke but i do think the ones blowing it are assholes; not because they're blowing the smoke but because there is no reason(i don't see one) to blow the smoke.
Hmm, not sure about the video, for me I have to view it on youtube, but it works completely fine there.
I'm not a philosopher, so I don't know exactly what you mean by functionalist, but it's function is that it makes you happy - same as having a couple drinks, having sex, or playing a game of starcraft, etc. It gives returns the same way that anything that isn't a necessity in life does imo.
If you don't define what the objective is, then there can't be no concept of what is a gain and what isn't, and as far as I can tell there's no universally accepted one. Your perspective just comes off very nihilistic, which if it's the case is fine, but then it isn't consistent of you to get upset over it. You literally said that you think that everyone who blows smoke is an asshole - considering smoking and vaping can be seen as very similar, you just called almost 20% of the population assholes solely based on small habit relative to ones' entire character.
Usually I find when I have arguments that follow your type of thinking, it usually leads to the conclusion that nothing matters, having any emotions about anything doesn't matter, and life doesn't matter. Anyway, enough philosophy for me in this thread.
yes, it might look like i randomly inserted <values> but it's no way near nihilism and it can be further put into categories; nihilism concerns itself(mostly) with the morality of it all while i'm only saying that 2 mol. of H and 1 mol. of O makes water; that's their (practical)function. what you + vaping does?.
i'll give you that at this point it is vague and perhaps of topic so i don't know ... (to touch on something you exemplified: having sex makes babies - that's its function; it creates real, quantifiable <things>).
definitely physics matter, life matters, emotions ... is to early to tell(evolution wise) honestly. hf anyway.
On September 25 2017 16:15 xM(Z wrote: yes, it might look like i randomly inserted <values> but it's no way near nihilism and it can be further put into categories; nihilism concerns itself(mostly) with the morality of it all while i'm only saying that 2 mol. of H and 1 mol. of O makes water; that's their (practical)function. what you + vaping does?.
i'll give you that at this point it is vague and perhaps of topic so i don't know ... (to touch on something you exemplified: having sex makes babies - that's its function; it creates real, quantifiable <things>).
definitely physics matter, life matter, emotions ... is to early to tell(evolution wise) honestly. hf anyway.
I'll be offtopic myself, and just mention I was referring to the casual protected sex to not have babies, and do it for the enjoyment of the act itself.
What you're saying just seems random, because you'll say life matters, and yet apparently what we do in life that isn't essential to our survival doesn't matter (our emotions), which begs the question why does life matter at all. Just seems like you have an arbitrary way of deciding what matters and what doesn't.
Anyway, you've achieved your goal of scaring anyone from posting in this thread now ^^
ha ha. it's fine, now for the silver lining: "As soon as you step inside this thread, you'll start feeling better. You'll remember you don't believe in any of this do/does crap. You're in control of your own life, remember? Here, take an e-cig. I promise by the time you're done smoking it it, you'll feel right as rain."
First of all, nice write up, very informative. I try to get this rolling again as i just started vaping about 3 weeks ago after smoking for 16 years. =)
For me it was definitly the best decision i´ve made in a long time, because of vaping i haven´t smoked a single cigarette in 3 weeks where i was at around 10-15 cigs per day before that. And all that without any signs of withdrawal at all. My coughing alrdy got significally better and the money saving aspect is really a nice incentive as well. After some liquids from the store i started mixing my own base, 1 liter of that costs here in germany around 30 € and should last me at least 6 month! So talk about saving a shit ton of money. ^^
And while i was only a somewhat "moderate" smoker, after i bought my e-cig i showed the thing to my 62 year old father who has smoked about 2 packs each day for 47 years. He was immediately so keen about it that i went back to the store and bought one for him as well. And since then he´s basically completely off cigs. I wouldn´t have thought i would live to see that day, because i can´t remember a single day where i have seen my father for even 30 mins without a cigarette. And THAT makes me really fucking happy!
As for my setup, after a good consulting in my local vapeshop i bought an Eleaf iPower 5000mA 80W battery mod with an Aspire Nautilus atomizer. As far as i can tell the atomizer really makes the difference here, since it´s a so called mouth to lung version, which has a similiar drag as a cig has.(as opposed to a direct lung atomizer, which just made me cough heavily) I started with a 6mg/ml nikotine liquid, but alrdy dropped it down to 3 and still feel completely satisfied with it.
So long story short, for everybody who wants to stop smoking, i couldn´t recommend it more!
helped me quit smoking so I am a fan. i don't know where to stand on 'vape culture' as i do not consider myself a part of it. the only thing that comes to mind when I hear 'vape culture' are the gross guys that work at the local shop that hit on underage girls that hang out there to get free juice
On September 26 2017 08:27 Samba wrote: First of all, nice write up, very informative. I try to get this rolling again as i just started vaping about 3 weeks ago after smoking for 16 years. =)
For me it was definitly the best decision i´ve made in a long time, because of vaping i haven´t smoked a single cigarette in 3 weeks where i was at around 10-15 cigs per day before that. And all that without any signs of withdrawal at all. My coughing alrdy got significally better and the money saving aspect is really a nice incentive as well. After some liquids from the store i started mixing my own base, 1 liter of that costs here in germany around 30 € and should last me at least 6 month! So talk about saving a shit ton of money. ^^
And while i was only a somewhat "moderate" smoker, after i bought my e-cig i showed the thing to my 62 year old father who has smoked about 2 packs each day for 47 years. He was immediately so keen about it that i went back to the store and bought one for him as well. And since then he´s basically completely off cigs. I wouldn´t have thought i would live to see that day, because i can´t remember a single day where i have seen my father for even 30 mins without a cigarette. And THAT makes me really fucking happy!
As for my setup, after a good consulting in my local vapeshop i bought an Eleaf iPower 5000mA 80W battery mod with an Aspire Nautilus atomizer. As far as i can tell the atomizer really makes the difference here, since it´s a so called mouth to lung version, which has a similiar drag as a cig has.(as opposed to a direct lung atomizer, which just made me cough heavily) I started with a 6mg/ml nikotine liquid, but alrdy dropped it down to 3 and still feel completely satisfied with it.
So long story short, for everybody who wants to stop smoking, i couldn´t recommend it more!
That's a great story, I'm happy to hear it Keep it up!
I was smoking for around 4 years, not as long as many, and not as high quantity as many either. I think from year 1 to year 3 I linearly progressed from 3 cigarettes/day, to 8-10. Then for the last year, I averaged 12-15/day. Since "quitting" 2 months ago, I've had 4 cigarettes total (so I guess not exactly quit). Each time when out drinking with friends, the taste and smell is really starting to get a big gross, but I finished them out of habit, anyway.
I've enjoyed going out with shisha with my Jewish and Middle eastern friends, and so I've tried to make my vaping experience pretty similar to that. Which means I want a lot of airflow with light fruity flavors. But definitely depends on your exact objectives, having only tried 4 different vapes, I'm far from an expert... I remember buying one like 4-5 years ago from a 7-11 and man, the thing was awful. Was harder to suck on it than inflating a hot water bottle, little flavor, no vapor, no way to replace the flavor. I work with some older people, and they've tried them in the past when they were crap, and so they don't think it's very good even though they've changed a lot. Definitely the current gen ones do a very nice job.
Looks like a solid mod, I think 80W is on the border of what I'd consider satisfying the average sub-ohm vaper, but if it works for you then great. If you're going for more cigarette like feel, you don't need as much power. I vape low compared to most people I meet, 45W, I prefer a smooth and cooler inhale... Though occasionally when I'm out with some other people and I want to sort of showoff, or just vape higher a couple puffs for the sake of it, I like to go to 80-100W, so having that potential there is nice.
The thing that I'm interested about is the flavors. Nowadays super concentrates are becoming quite popular, usual juices that you mix yourself dissolved in VG/PG require around 10% flavor, which can add up pretty quick, since where I buy from a 10mL flavor is $5, and a 30mL flavor is $8 (CDN though). So if you want a smaller size just to try it out, you're paying $5 for 100mL (and sometimes people add 15-20% flavor, I just happen to prefer that softer taste) just flavor, whereas if you buy a popular brand juice, it'll cost you like $50 for everything. So the savings aren't as significant as they could be. But these alcohol dissolved super concentrates only require 1-3% flavoring, yet they are like the same price per mL of these normal PG/VG dissolved flavors. I think I calculated that at my current levels, $120 worth of products will last me 3.5 years when buying these super concentrates (versus more than double for the standard concentrations).
On September 26 2017 08:56 Alejandrisha wrote: helped me quit smoking so I am a fan. i don't know where to stand on 'vape culture' as i do not consider myself a part of it. the only thing that comes to mind when I hear 'vape culture' are the gross guys that work at the local shop that hit on underage girls that hang out there to get free juice
Yeah, same here. I have a friend who before I was vaping (and the one who eventually convinced me to get one), half jokingly did this extremely cringy this where he would put out two piece hand signs, right next to one another, creating the letter V and letter N, and would say "Vape Nation". This is the origin of the title for the thread lol. I treat it much like smoking, you do it because you do, not because you're trying to be part of some group.
But yeah, younger people are quicker to adopt to new technologies, so I suppose when you see a lot of teens vaping it can put an image in your head that it's some children's thing. Same as a skateboard, few adults buy one even if it can be useful, simply because the kind of people they usually associate with skaters. Vaping is the same way I think, but I think vaping is a lot more beneficial than skateboarding, and eventually it'll really catch on with adults of all ages. Many of the smokers in my company wouldn't try it because they think it's stupid, bit once they did they usually liked it.
Hey Fiwi, thank you for taking the time to make this thread, I had been thinking of doing something similar but it seemed that there was no interest in a vaping section since the other threads have had no new posts for years.
Saying congratulations to people that have switched from cigs to vaping might seem strange to some but I think it's important to show support and encouragement, so gratz to everyone ^^. Seeing the effects of long term smoking affect your health and of those around you can be hard to deal with, especially if there's no one that can relate or talk to.
Vaping is a healthier alternative to smoking and since everybody just says things over the internet, here's an actual study by a reputable institution, the Royale Collage of Physicians - Nicotine without smoke: Tobacco harm reduction
Can't say I am very knowledgeable, only started vaping a couple of years ago. Went through the usual stages, mouth-to-lung tanks into sub ohm tanks and now I'm into rebuildables (which I thoroughly recommend, it's not that difficult to do and it's cheaper than buying coils). Steam-engine is a really good tool, helps a lot with calculating resistances for different wire types.
@Samba, great to hear about you and your dad. Also the Nautilus is a solid tank, good choice. (Also, think everyone coughs the first time they try a direct lung vape ) )
I've heard/seen this phrase, "vaping culture", quite a lot but I don't know what are the attributes that make it a culture. There's no identifiable elements or features that differentiate a person that vapes from a regular person, no particular link at a social or linguistic level, no shared values or beliefs, no common education or traditions that connects us. "Vape nation" at least kinda suggest a "coming together", a community, though the term is being associated mostly with teenagers/young adults that seem to think they're in a gang of some sort. "Watch out, I'm gonna blow vapour in your direction..." :/ /rant /rambling
I've got some questions to keep the discussion rolling: How did you start vaping? What sort of liquids do you prefer? Any unusual combinations? Does the TPD affect your vaping? Do people still ask you to let them have a go? Plans for future setups?
I've got some questions to keep the discussion rolling: How did you start vaping? What sort of liquids do you prefer? Any unusual combinations? Does the TPD affect your vaping? Do people still ask you to let them have a go? Plans for future setups?
I started maybe 5 years ago. I was seeing a girl a little younger than I was and the thing never left her hand. I was smoking cigarettes on and off but I started hogging hers and eventually got my own. It was just a tank but I liked the mild throat burn. After that broke after 6 months I got a single battery dripper and liked that even more. RDAs are awesome and the shop I go to gives me free rebuilds. I can kind of build my own but I never got that much into it so I don't trust myself haha. Now I have one of those Atlantis drip/tank things so I don't have to drip every 5 mins and it's the best one I've ever had. 2 battery FUCHAI something or other.
Looks like a solid mod, I think 80W is on the border of what I'd consider satisfying the average sub-ohm vaper, but if it works for you then great. If you're going for more cigarette like feel, you don't need as much power. I vape low compared to most people I meet, 45W, I prefer a smooth and cooler inhale... Though occasionally when I'm out with some other people and I want to sort of showoff, or just vape higher a couple puffs for the sake of it, I like to go to 80-100W, so having that potential there is nice.
Yeah, so far i´m still far away from subohm, using 1.6 or 1.8 ohm coils atm, vaping them at 12W. The guy in the shop said, i shouldn´t go higher than 15W with the Nautilus atomizer, otherwise i would just burn the coils. So the amount of "smoke" is pretty similiar to that of a cigarette, which is enough for me (for now at least ) And my father said, he never considered vaping exactly bc he always saw people producing such huge clouds and thought that´s just silly.
For the aroma i´m definitly on your side, my local shop here has a big try out table with like 40 different tastes. So far i really like prickly pear, watermelon or blueberry. And i´m mixing them at 5% as suggested for them, works like a charm for me. 50 ml cost like 17€ and are enough for the whole liter base i got, so for me it´s alrdy a huge money saving point compared to the cigarettes.
Since i haven´t vaped before the TPD thing got in place, i got no real comparison, but the online store where i bought my base was very convenient, when you order 1 liter, they just send you 850 ml 50/50 VG/PG base in a 1 liter bottle and add the amount of 10ml nicotine shots that you need for your wanted nicotine lvl, so you just have to pour them all into that big 1 liter bottle, shake it good and your done. ^^
"Vaping culture" isn´t really something i´ve encountered so far, for me it´s just like probably for most people that some friends of mine are vaping for years now and they finally got me around to try it as well. It alrdy became a little bit of a hobby for me, but for now i´m just learning a lot about all the different possibilities there are, which is pretty fun. So i guess eventually i will get around to making my own coils, will see where i end up. Oh yeah, this sentence describes it pretty much perfect for me as well:
I treat it much like smoking, you do it because you do, not because you're trying to be part of some group.
But i´m definitly not considering going back to "pyros" (fancy vape-forum term i saw everywhere for cigs)
What sort of liquids do you prefer? Any unusual combinations?
Mostly fruits, but some dessert flavors are nice. For people mixing, I think you should always make just the single flavor of every juice you try, on so many forums I see people combining like 6 things together and saying it tastes good. Like I'm sure it's fine, but there's no strategy to build up the flavor here. Knowing how the base elements work, and starting with base interactions is a lot better I think.
I generally categorize flavors into 6 categories:
1) Fruit 2) Dessert 3) Custard 4) Energy Drink 5) Tobacco 6) Mint
And then you have some that don't really fit anywhere, coconut, nuts, coffee to list a few. Not a fan from the couple I tried, nuts are probably my most disliked flavor, maybe it's meant as a minor addition to recipes rather than keeping it solo. Energy drink flavors I classify as those super strong sweet flavors that are marketed the same way as energy drinks to teenagers, and not really tasting like any common food, but just some interesting artificial taste.
TFA Wintergreen is pretty good one from my experience, adding 1-2% to a fruity flavor, makes it feel a little cooler and fresher. I'll be trying WFSC Double Mint (since I'm on the super concentrate bandwagon) next. I haven't tried any custard flavors outside of at the vape shop since supposedly they are the worst for you. Picking your favorite fruit flavor and mixing it with some cheesecake or pie isn't bad either.
"Watch out, I'm gonna blow vapour in your direction..." :/
What, this has happened? Man, if someone said this to me, fuck.
Does the TPD affect your vaping?
Thank goodness I don't live in Europe, 2mL tanks are very restrictive, I just don't like carrying around juice with me, and having a 3-5mL is way more convenient to last you a whole day. Like what is this even supposed to achieve, seriously the dumbest piece of legislation on anything I've ever seen (yes, it's making me upset). And the worst thing is that when things like these are passed, it's an inconviniece to people, but not enough so to get people to rise up and fight it, so most likely this wont get changed for a long time.
Thank goodness I don't live in Europe, 2mL tanks are very restrictive, I just don't like carrying around juice with me, and having a 3-5mL is way more convenient to last you a whole day. Like what is this even supposed to achieve, seriously the dumbest piece of legislation on anything I've ever seen (yes, it's making me upset). And the worst thing is that when things like these are passed, it's an inconviniece to people, but not enough so to get people to rise up and fight it, so most likely this wont get changed for a long time.
Huh, where is the tank size restricted to only 2 ml? In the UK? Definitly not here in Germany, the one i just bought has a 5 ml tank.
Thank goodness I don't live in Europe, 2mL tanks are very restrictive, I just don't like carrying around juice with me, and having a 3-5mL is way more convenient to last you a whole day. Like what is this even supposed to achieve, seriously the dumbest piece of legislation on anything I've ever seen (yes, it's making me upset). And the worst thing is that when things like these are passed, it's an inconviniece to people, but not enough so to get people to rise up and fight it, so most likely this wont get changed for a long time.
Huh, where is the tank size restricted to only 2 ml? In the UK? Definitly not here in Germany, the one i just bought has a 5 ml tank.
I just searched TPD vape because I didn't know what it was and the vaping regulations for some European body came up. I didn't spend too much time reading it.
But many atomizers have a European (with 2mL tanks) and International version, so it makes sense. My European friends should fight this
On September 27 2017 10:28 Alejandrisha wrote: anyone here go over 80 watts consistently? I knew people that would go 150-300+ but I never understood that.. I'm a 60-80 guy myself
Longer and multi coil setups don't get nearly as hot. Most coils that people vape start to get too hot with that much power and it burns your throat. But with some coils it can feel the exact same, but you get more vapor (and use more juice).
On September 26 2017 08:27 Samba wrote: First of all, nice write up, very informative. I try to get this rolling again as i just started vaping about 3 weeks ago after smoking for 16 years. =)
For me it was definitly the best decision i´ve made in a long time, because of vaping i haven´t smoked a single cigarette in 3 weeks where i was at around 10-15 cigs per day before that. And all that without any signs of withdrawal at all. My coughing alrdy got significally better and the money saving aspect is really a nice incentive as well. After some liquids from the store i started mixing my own base, 1 liter of that costs here in germany around 30 € and should last me at least 6 month! So talk about saving a shit ton of money. ^^
And while i was only a somewhat "moderate" smoker, after i bought my e-cig i showed the thing to my 62 year old father who has smoked about 2 packs each day for 47 years. He was immediately so keen about it that i went back to the store and bought one for him as well. And since then he´s basically completely off cigs. I wouldn´t have thought i would live to see that day, because i can´t remember a single day where i have seen my father for even 30 mins without a cigarette. And THAT makes me really fucking happy!
As for my setup, after a good consulting in my local vapeshop i bought an Eleaf iPower 5000mA 80W battery mod with an Aspire Nautilus atomizer. As far as i can tell the atomizer really makes the difference here, since it´s a so called mouth to lung version, which has a similiar drag as a cig has.(as opposed to a direct lung atomizer, which just made me cough heavily) I started with a 6mg/ml nikotine liquid, but alrdy dropped it down to 3 and still feel completely satisfied with it.
So long story short, for everybody who wants to stop smoking, i couldn´t recommend it more!
That's a great story, I'm happy to hear it Keep it up!
I was smoking for around 4 years, not as long as many, and not as high quantity as many either. I think from year 1 to year 3 I linearly progressed from 3 cigarettes/day, to 8-10. Then for the last year, I averaged 12-15/day. Since "quitting" 2 months ago, I've had 4 cigarettes total (so I guess not exactly quit). Each time when out drinking with friends, the taste and smell is really starting to get a big gross, but I finished them out of habit, anyway.
I've enjoyed going out with shisha with my Jewish and Middle eastern friends, and so I've tried to make my vaping experience pretty similar to that. Which means I want a lot of airflow with light fruity flavors. But definitely depends on your exact objectives, having only tried 4 different vapes, I'm far from an expert... I remember buying one like 4-5 years ago from a 7-11 and man, the thing was awful. Was harder to suck on it than inflating a hot water bottle, little flavor, no vapor, no way to replace the flavor. I work with some older people, and they've tried them in the past when they were crap, and so they don't think it's very good even though they've changed a lot. Definitely the current gen ones do a very nice job.
Looks like a solid mod, I think 80W is on the border of what I'd consider satisfying the average sub-ohm vaper, but if it works for you then great. If you're going for more cigarette like feel, you don't need as much power. I vape low compared to most people I meet, 45W, I prefer a smooth and cooler inhale... Though occasionally when I'm out with some other people and I want to sort of showoff, or just vape higher a couple puffs for the sake of it, I like to go to 80-100W, so having that potential there is nice.
The thing that I'm interested about is the flavors. Nowadays super concentrates are becoming quite popular, usual juices that you mix yourself dissolved in VG/PG require around 10% flavor, which can add up pretty quick, since where I buy from a 10mL flavor is $5, and a 30mL flavor is $8 (CDN though). So if you want a smaller size just to try it out, you're paying $5 for 100mL (and sometimes people add 15-20% flavor, I just happen to prefer that softer taste) just flavor, whereas if you buy a popular brand juice, it'll cost you like $50 for everything. So the savings aren't as significant as they could be. But these alcohol dissolved super concentrates only require 1-3% flavoring, yet they are like the same price per mL of these normal PG/VG dissolved flavors. I think I calculated that at my current levels, $120 worth of products will last me 3.5 years when buying these super concentrates (versus more than double for the standard concentrations).
On September 26 2017 08:56 Alejandrisha wrote: helped me quit smoking so I am a fan. i don't know where to stand on 'vape culture' as i do not consider myself a part of it. the only thing that comes to mind when I hear 'vape culture' are the gross guys that work at the local shop that hit on underage girls that hang out there to get free juice
Yeah, same here. I have a friend who before I was vaping (and the one who eventually convinced me to get one), half jokingly did this extremely cringy this where he would put out two piece hand signs, right next to one another, creating the letter V and letter N, and would say "Vape Nation". This is the origin of the title for the thread lol. I treat it much like smoking, you do it because you do, not because you're trying to be part of some group.
But yeah, younger people are quicker to adopt to new technologies, so I suppose when you see a lot of teens vaping it can put an image in your head that it's some children's thing. Same as a skateboard, few adults buy one even if it can be useful, simply because the kind of people they usually associate with skaters. Vaping is the same way I think, but I think vaping is a lot more beneficial than skateboarding, and eventually it'll really catch on with adults of all ages. Many of the smokers in my company wouldn't try it because they think it's stupid, bit once they did they usually liked it.
I wish this was my experience because then I'd at least be able to laugh at myself Literally the vape shop I went to was my friend who would basically be sexually harassed but was a strong girl and just pushed them away but they literally let her pour her own juice and work the desk etc. Lots of girls who were not old enough to get nicotine would come to this shop full of pervworkers and get free juice because the manager(perv#1) was making good margins because he was an early adopter Now that I have re-entered the vaping world several years later, it doesn't have all that baggage and I am, as I always have, doing it for myself. I am an acultural vapist. edit: she got me free juice so no complaints #vapelife
hey there, i've been vaping since a year ago, its been awesome.. before that i smoked for 7 years around 10-12 cigs per day there are sweet spot (ohm and wattage settings) for vaping , but everybody have different sweet spot. mine is 70 watts burning on .25 ohm. the only negative experience is when you buy the second time the same liquid that i like but taste not good as first one vape on!
On September 26 2017 08:27 Samba wrote: First of all, nice write up, very informative. I try to get this rolling again as i just started vaping about 3 weeks ago after smoking for 16 years. =)
For me it was definitly the best decision i´ve made in a long time, because of vaping i haven´t smoked a single cigarette in 3 weeks where i was at around 10-15 cigs per day before that. And all that without any signs of withdrawal at all. My coughing alrdy got significally better and the money saving aspect is really a nice incentive as well. After some liquids from the store i started mixing my own base, 1 liter of that costs here in germany around 30 € and should last me at least 6 month! So talk about saving a shit ton of money. ^^
And while i was only a somewhat "moderate" smoker, after i bought my e-cig i showed the thing to my 62 year old father who has smoked about 2 packs each day for 47 years. He was immediately so keen about it that i went back to the store and bought one for him as well. And since then he´s basically completely off cigs. I wouldn´t have thought i would live to see that day, because i can´t remember a single day where i have seen my father for even 30 mins without a cigarette. And THAT makes me really fucking happy!
As for my setup, after a good consulting in my local vapeshop i bought an Eleaf iPower 5000mA 80W battery mod with an Aspire Nautilus atomizer. As far as i can tell the atomizer really makes the difference here, since it´s a so called mouth to lung version, which has a similiar drag as a cig has.(as opposed to a direct lung atomizer, which just made me cough heavily) I started with a 6mg/ml nikotine liquid, but alrdy dropped it down to 3 and still feel completely satisfied with it.
So long story short, for everybody who wants to stop smoking, i couldn´t recommend it more!
That's a great story, I'm happy to hear it Keep it up!
I was smoking for around 4 years, not as long as many, and not as high quantity as many either. I think from year 1 to year 3 I linearly progressed from 3 cigarettes/day, to 8-10. Then for the last year, I averaged 12-15/day. Since "quitting" 2 months ago, I've had 4 cigarettes total (so I guess not exactly quit). Each time when out drinking with friends, the taste and smell is really starting to get a big gross, but I finished them out of habit, anyway.
I've enjoyed going out with shisha with my Jewish and Middle eastern friends, and so I've tried to make my vaping experience pretty similar to that. Which means I want a lot of airflow with light fruity flavors. But definitely depends on your exact objectives, having only tried 4 different vapes, I'm far from an expert... I remember buying one like 4-5 years ago from a 7-11 and man, the thing was awful. Was harder to suck on it than inflating a hot water bottle, little flavor, no vapor, no way to replace the flavor. I work with some older people, and they've tried them in the past when they were crap, and so they don't think it's very good even though they've changed a lot. Definitely the current gen ones do a very nice job.
Looks like a solid mod, I think 80W is on the border of what I'd consider satisfying the average sub-ohm vaper, but if it works for you then great. If you're going for more cigarette like feel, you don't need as much power. I vape low compared to most people I meet, 45W, I prefer a smooth and cooler inhale... Though occasionally when I'm out with some other people and I want to sort of showoff, or just vape higher a couple puffs for the sake of it, I like to go to 80-100W, so having that potential there is nice.
The thing that I'm interested about is the flavors. Nowadays super concentrates are becoming quite popular, usual juices that you mix yourself dissolved in VG/PG require around 10% flavor, which can add up pretty quick, since where I buy from a 10mL flavor is $5, and a 30mL flavor is $8 (CDN though). So if you want a smaller size just to try it out, you're paying $5 for 100mL (and sometimes people add 15-20% flavor, I just happen to prefer that softer taste) just flavor, whereas if you buy a popular brand juice, it'll cost you like $50 for everything. So the savings aren't as significant as they could be. But these alcohol dissolved super concentrates only require 1-3% flavoring, yet they are like the same price per mL of these normal PG/VG dissolved flavors. I think I calculated that at my current levels, $120 worth of products will last me 3.5 years when buying these super concentrates (versus more than double for the standard concentrations).
On September 26 2017 08:56 Alejandrisha wrote: helped me quit smoking so I am a fan. i don't know where to stand on 'vape culture' as i do not consider myself a part of it. the only thing that comes to mind when I hear 'vape culture' are the gross guys that work at the local shop that hit on underage girls that hang out there to get free juice
Yeah, same here. I have a friend who before I was vaping (and the one who eventually convinced me to get one), half jokingly did this extremely cringy this where he would put out two piece hand signs, right next to one another, creating the letter V and letter N, and would say "Vape Nation". This is the origin of the title for the thread lol. I treat it much like smoking, you do it because you do, not because you're trying to be part of some group.
But yeah, younger people are quicker to adopt to new technologies, so I suppose when you see a lot of teens vaping it can put an image in your head that it's some children's thing. Same as a skateboard, few adults buy one even if it can be useful, simply because the kind of people they usually associate with skaters. Vaping is the same way I think, but I think vaping is a lot more beneficial than skateboarding, and eventually it'll really catch on with adults of all ages. Many of the smokers in my company wouldn't try it because they think it's stupid, bit once they did they usually liked it.
I wish this was my experience because then I'd at least be able to laugh at myself Literally the vape shop I went to was my friend who would basically be sexually harassed but was a strong girl and just pushed them away but they literally let her pour her own juice and work the desk etc. Lots of girls who were not old enough to get nicotine would come to this shop full of pervworkers and get free juice because the manager(perv#1) was making good margins because he was an early adopter Now that I have re-entered the vaping world several years later, it doesn't have all that baggage and I am, as I always have, doing it for myself. I am an acultural vapist. edit: she got me free juice so no complaints #vapelife
*vapelyfe
In all seriousness though, yes, that is shitty. New industry means the big corporations haven't entered, and yeah, those things happen. I hope that's a one off case, pretty sad.
But i´m definitly not considering going back to "pyros" (fancy vape-forum term i saw everywhere for cigs)
The good old days of being a pyrotechnician. Yeah, pyros and analogs - I guess collectively many of us smoked before and now stopped and see smoking as a bad decision, so we defile cigarettes, gotta give them some name that makes them sound uncool.
Also, what PG/VG ratio are you guys going for? I bought a 4L 70/30 premixed, so it's been a while since I've had something different. I'm actually getting a bigger throat hit than I'd like, after a 10 minute session of a puff every 30 seconds or less my throat is a little sore. Not sure if it's too much PG, or just too much nicotine at once. I keep saying I'll do a lower nic one to compare, but then I don't because you know, cravings lol.
Also on another topic, one thing that really erks me in the e-juice DIY community is how crude steeping is. Like I'm in this DIY facebook page, and fml. Someone posts a recipe and says to steep it for 6-8 weeks, wtf are you serious, who's going to do this. So it's not the fact that steeping it for that long is an issue (though it is sort of), but is there no science to this? What I mean is if someone says to steep it for 6 weeks in a dark room at say 20C, there should be some connection versus steeping it at 30C until you get the same flavor.
Clearly some reactions happen in that time, so if we measured how much of a certain compound was created, and then ran a test on a hotplate with say a magnetic stir stick, and periodically take samples and check them to compare, we should see how long it takes, and we could make some rough conclusions. But right now there's no science at all, and it makes me unhappy... Maybe it is one of those finer things in life, like good wine and cheese, but I'm not patient enough for it. The other issue is that it becomes impossible to do any kind of science on your recipes if you need to wait at least one week before you can analyze your sample (taste), because you wont remember what the previous one tasted like, and even the one in your bottle from a week before that is the same but 2% more of some flavor will taste different, because it's had another week to steep. It's a big problem, because if you can get feedback on your recipe only once a week, trying to design anything new becomes super annoying. So I guess it surprises me that more science hasn't been done on this, that or I don't know where to look for it. Maybe someone has some insights about how the e-juice companies go about creating their flavors, or any information that can point me in the right direction?
On September 26 2017 08:27 Samba wrote: First of all, nice write up, very informative. I try to get this rolling again as i just started vaping about 3 weeks ago after smoking for 16 years. =)
For me it was definitly the best decision i´ve made in a long time, because of vaping i haven´t smoked a single cigarette in 3 weeks where i was at around 10-15 cigs per day before that. And all that without any signs of withdrawal at all. My coughing alrdy got significally better and the money saving aspect is really a nice incentive as well. After some liquids from the store i started mixing my own base, 1 liter of that costs here in germany around 30 € and should last me at least 6 month! So talk about saving a shit ton of money. ^^
And while i was only a somewhat "moderate" smoker, after i bought my e-cig i showed the thing to my 62 year old father who has smoked about 2 packs each day for 47 years. He was immediately so keen about it that i went back to the store and bought one for him as well. And since then he´s basically completely off cigs. I wouldn´t have thought i would live to see that day, because i can´t remember a single day where i have seen my father for even 30 mins without a cigarette. And THAT makes me really fucking happy!
As for my setup, after a good consulting in my local vapeshop i bought an Eleaf iPower 5000mA 80W battery mod with an Aspire Nautilus atomizer. As far as i can tell the atomizer really makes the difference here, since it´s a so called mouth to lung version, which has a similiar drag as a cig has.(as opposed to a direct lung atomizer, which just made me cough heavily) I started with a 6mg/ml nikotine liquid, but alrdy dropped it down to 3 and still feel completely satisfied with it.
So long story short, for everybody who wants to stop smoking, i couldn´t recommend it more!
That's a great story, I'm happy to hear it Keep it up!
I was smoking for around 4 years, not as long as many, and not as high quantity as many either. I think from year 1 to year 3 I linearly progressed from 3 cigarettes/day, to 8-10. Then for the last year, I averaged 12-15/day. Since "quitting" 2 months ago, I've had 4 cigarettes total (so I guess not exactly quit). Each time when out drinking with friends, the taste and smell is really starting to get a big gross, but I finished them out of habit, anyway.
I've enjoyed going out with shisha with my Jewish and Middle eastern friends, and so I've tried to make my vaping experience pretty similar to that. Which means I want a lot of airflow with light fruity flavors. But definitely depends on your exact objectives, having only tried 4 different vapes, I'm far from an expert... I remember buying one like 4-5 years ago from a 7-11 and man, the thing was awful. Was harder to suck on it than inflating a hot water bottle, little flavor, no vapor, no way to replace the flavor. I work with some older people, and they've tried them in the past when they were crap, and so they don't think it's very good even though they've changed a lot. Definitely the current gen ones do a very nice job.
Looks like a solid mod, I think 80W is on the border of what I'd consider satisfying the average sub-ohm vaper, but if it works for you then great. If you're going for more cigarette like feel, you don't need as much power. I vape low compared to most people I meet, 45W, I prefer a smooth and cooler inhale... Though occasionally when I'm out with some other people and I want to sort of showoff, or just vape higher a couple puffs for the sake of it, I like to go to 80-100W, so having that potential there is nice.
The thing that I'm interested about is the flavors. Nowadays super concentrates are becoming quite popular, usual juices that you mix yourself dissolved in VG/PG require around 10% flavor, which can add up pretty quick, since where I buy from a 10mL flavor is $5, and a 30mL flavor is $8 (CDN though). So if you want a smaller size just to try it out, you're paying $5 for 100mL (and sometimes people add 15-20% flavor, I just happen to prefer that softer taste) just flavor, whereas if you buy a popular brand juice, it'll cost you like $50 for everything. So the savings aren't as significant as they could be. But these alcohol dissolved super concentrates only require 1-3% flavoring, yet they are like the same price per mL of these normal PG/VG dissolved flavors. I think I calculated that at my current levels, $120 worth of products will last me 3.5 years when buying these super concentrates (versus more than double for the standard concentrations).
On September 26 2017 08:56 Alejandrisha wrote: helped me quit smoking so I am a fan. i don't know where to stand on 'vape culture' as i do not consider myself a part of it. the only thing that comes to mind when I hear 'vape culture' are the gross guys that work at the local shop that hit on underage girls that hang out there to get free juice
Yeah, same here. I have a friend who before I was vaping (and the one who eventually convinced me to get one), half jokingly did this extremely cringy this where he would put out two piece hand signs, right next to one another, creating the letter V and letter N, and would say "Vape Nation". This is the origin of the title for the thread lol. I treat it much like smoking, you do it because you do, not because you're trying to be part of some group.
But yeah, younger people are quicker to adopt to new technologies, so I suppose when you see a lot of teens vaping it can put an image in your head that it's some children's thing. Same as a skateboard, few adults buy one even if it can be useful, simply because the kind of people they usually associate with skaters. Vaping is the same way I think, but I think vaping is a lot more beneficial than skateboarding, and eventually it'll really catch on with adults of all ages. Many of the smokers in my company wouldn't try it because they think it's stupid, bit once they did they usually liked it.
I wish this was my experience because then I'd at least be able to laugh at myself Literally the vape shop I went to was my friend who would basically be sexually harassed but was a strong girl and just pushed them away but they literally let her pour her own juice and work the desk etc. Lots of girls who were not old enough to get nicotine would come to this shop full of pervworkers and get free juice because the manager(perv#1) was making good margins because he was an early adopter Now that I have re-entered the vaping world several years later, it doesn't have all that baggage and I am, as I always have, doing it for myself. I am an acultural vapist. edit: she got me free juice so no complaints #vapelife
*vapelyfe
In all seriousness though, yes, that is shitty. New industry means the big corporations haven't entered, and yeah, those things happen. I hope that's a one off case, pretty sad.
But i´m definitly not considering going back to "pyros" (fancy vape-forum term i saw everywhere for cigs)
The good old days of being a pyrotechnician. Yeah, pyros and analogs - I guess collectively many of us smoked before and now stopped and see smoking as a bad decision, so we defile cigarettes, gotta give them some name that makes them sound uncool.
Also, what PG/VG ratio are you guys going for? I bought a 4L 70/30 premixed, so it's been a while since I've had something different. I'm actually getting a bigger throat hit than I'd like, after a 10 minute session of a puff every 30 seconds or less my throat is a little sore. Not sure if it's too much PG, or just too much nicotine at once. I keep saying I'll do a lower nic one to compare, but then I don't because you know, cravings lol.
Also on another topic, one thing that really erks me in the e-juice DIY community is how crude steeping is. Like I'm in this DIY facebook page, and fml. Someone posts a recipe and says to steep it for 6-8 weeks, wtf are you serious, who's going to do this. So it's not the fact that steeping it for that long is an issue (though it is sort of), but is there no science to this? What I mean is if someone says to steep it for 6 weeks in a dark room at say 20C, there should be some connection versus steeping it at 30C until you get the same flavor.
Clearly some reactions happen in that time, so if we measured how much of a certain compound was created, and then ran a test on a hotplate with say a magnetic stir stick, and periodically take samples and check them to compare, we should see how long it takes, and we could make some rough conclusions. But right now there's no science at all, and it makes me unhappy... Maybe it is one of those finer things in life, like good wine and cheese, but I'm not patient enough for it. The other issue is that it becomes impossible to do any kind of science on your recipes if you need to wait at least one week before you can analyze your sample (taste), because you wont remember what the previous one tasted like, and even the one in your bottle from a week before that is the same but 2% more of some flavor will taste different, because it's had another week to steep. It's a big problem, because if you can get feedback on your recipe only once a week, trying to design anything new becomes super annoying. So I guess it surprises me that more science hasn't been done on this, that or I don't know where to look for it. Maybe someone has some insights about how the e-juice companies go about creating their flavors, or any information that can point me in the right direction?
i have a brewer friend, he said steeping processes could take time around 2-4 months
"Watch out, I'm gonna blow vapour in your direction..." :/
What, this has happened? Man, if someone said this to me, fuck.
No, that was just a way of painting a more complete picture of what I think when I hear "Vape Nation" )
Regarding the TPD, in the US it's the FDA and federal government that is doing something similar. In the EU, the TPD was a directive voted on in 2014 by the Eu parliament (was supposed to be active starting with 2016 and then was extended to 2017) link here. There are good and bad aspects. My problem with it is that it was based on the reality of the vaping world/industry that has changed completely in these few years. With the new sub-ohm tanks 2 ml is very little, for most tanks in that time it was actually enough.
Some of the good aspects - it brought rules and regulations to a billion dollar industry which had almost no supervision and did things how they wanted (not all, but there were a lot of shoddy manufactures and sellers). For example: better labeling (forcing liquid manufactures to list ALL their ingredients), banning certain ingredients for liquids (that were not tested enough or not very safe), liquids need to be tested in labs before being released on market, child proof bottles.
The thing is, from my understanding, each country can sort of choose how hard to enforce the TPD and also the way they actually check how shops comply with these standards (which isn't that strict from what I can see).
On a different note, here's my first setup https://imgur.com/a/v6l8m The Delta I on top of the Evic Supreme, both from Joyetech. Looked like a metal dildo, total length is about 20cm without the drip tip lol but it worked just fine (still does). Can't believe this was actually top stuff some years ago, it went to a whooping 30 w ^^.
cmiiw but higher wattage translate to thicker smokes and deeper throat kicks right?
cuz my mod can goes all the way to 150w (i vape on 60-65w) but i somehow still cant get those thick ass smokes that vape trickers (?) usually get when they take a hit despite sucking it for like 2-3 seconds.
also regarding e liquids, how does one determine that an e-liquid is "safe" to use and will not likely cause any shitty side effects? cuz last time i heard it became an issue in fda health regulations or something
On September 27 2017 23:52 neozxa wrote: cmiiw but higher wattage translate to thicker smokes and deeper throat kicks right?
higher wattage means more power going through the wire heating it up faster and vapourizing more liquid thus giving more "clouds" (simplified answer) side note: most coils have a recommended range (usually stamped on them), going (far) above will usually make it an unpleasant experience - very hot vape, burnt liquid taste, burnt cotton taste, metallic taste
the harsh throat sensation is usually from nicotine
cuz my mod can goes all the way to 150w (i vape on 60-65w) but i somehow still cant get those thick ass smokes that vape trickers (?) usually get when they take a hit despite sucking it for like 2-3 seconds.
it's not just about watts, there are many variables here: mod, tank, coil, liquid (pg-vg ratio), pull time if you could share your setup, people could easier give tips
also regarding e liquids, how does one determine that an e-liquid is "safe" to use and will not likely cause any shitty side effects? cuz last time i heard it became an issue in fda health regulations or something
best way is to use well known brands and sellers. do a little research (just google the liquid/manufacturer, you will most likely get a lot of reviews cuz people like to give their opinion on everything ) ) side note: some people have a sensitivity to PG and might have issues with high PG ratio juices
On September 27 2017 23:52 neozxa wrote: cmiiw but higher wattage translate to thicker smokes and deeper throat kicks right?
higher wattage means more power going through the wire heating it up faster and vapourizing more liquid thus giving more "clouds" (simplified answer) side note: most coils have a recommended range (usually stamped on them), going (far) above will usually make it an unpleasant experience - very hot vape, burnt liquid taste, burnt cotton taste, metallic taste
the harsh throat sensation is usually from nicotine
cuz my mod can goes all the way to 150w (i vape on 60-65w) but i somehow still cant get those thick ass smokes that vape trickers (?) usually get when they take a hit despite sucking it for like 2-3 seconds.
it's not just about watts, there are many variables here: mod, tank, coil, liquid (pg-vg ratio), pull time if you could share your setup, people could easier give tips
also regarding e liquids, how does one determine that an e-liquid is "safe" to use and will not likely cause any shitty side effects? cuz last time i heard it became an issue in fda health regulations or something
best way is to use well known brands and sellers. do a little research (just google the liquid/manufacturer, you will most likely get a lot of reviews cuz people like to give their opinion on everything ) ) side note: some people have a sensitivity to PG and might have issues with high PG ratio juices
i am using an evic VTC dual with a local rda atomizer called Goon RDA. my current coils are at 0.25 ohm and as i stated earlier i usually vape at 60 watts.
currently im using a local eliquid called hypejuice which has a 60/40 vg/pg and has menthol and 3mg of nicotine infused in it.
i want to get into coiling my own vapes but i think i need a good grasp on what exactly im doing beforehand lmao, all this time i just go to a local vape bar and get it coiled up for like 1 usd.
On September 27 2017 23:52 neozxa wrote: cmiiw but higher wattage translate to thicker smokes and deeper throat kicks right?
higher wattage means more power going through the wire heating it up faster and vapourizing more liquid thus giving more "clouds" (simplified answer) side note: most coils have a recommended range (usually stamped on them), going (far) above will usually make it an unpleasant experience - very hot vape, burnt liquid taste, burnt cotton taste, metallic taste
the harsh throat sensation is usually from nicotine
cuz my mod can goes all the way to 150w (i vape on 60-65w) but i somehow still cant get those thick ass smokes that vape trickers (?) usually get when they take a hit despite sucking it for like 2-3 seconds.
it's not just about watts, there are many variables here: mod, tank, coil, liquid (pg-vg ratio), pull time if you could share your setup, people could easier give tips
also regarding e liquids, how does one determine that an e-liquid is "safe" to use and will not likely cause any shitty side effects? cuz last time i heard it became an issue in fda health regulations or something
best way is to use well known brands and sellers. do a little research (just google the liquid/manufacturer, you will most likely get a lot of reviews cuz people like to give their opinion on everything ) ) side note: some people have a sensitivity to PG and might have issues with high PG ratio juices
i am using an evic VTC dual with a local rda atomizer called Goon RDA. my current coils are at 0.25 ohm and as i stated earlier i usually vape at 60 watts.
currently im using a local eliquid called hypejuice which has a 60/40 vg/pg and has menthol and 3mg of nicotine infused in it.
i want to get into coiling my own vapes but i think i need a good grasp on what exactly im doing beforehand lmao, all this time i just go to a local vape bar and get it coiled up for like 1 usd.
Your gear is pretty good, the Goon is actually a very nice dripper. I googled that hyperjuice juice and is seems to be a reputable brand. Regarding more cloud production, there are a couple of things you could try. One simple thing would be try a higher VG juice if you can find, 70/30 maybe even higher. (Things to know, if you see somewhere "Max Vg" - max VG doesn't mean 100% vg, it varies depending on vendor, it's 80 or 85 %vg in most cases, might go to 90%) I don't know how you vape but you could try to chain a couple of puffs (the coil won't have cooled between pulls so it will be hotter and produce a bit more vapour) - just take it easy and in small increments, test it out (don't go full force) Since I can't tell how your coil looks I cannot comment on what to change there but another trick is the bigger/larger the coil (more wraps, bigger diameter) the more surface area to heat the juice resulting in more clouds. Lastly, if your vape is not to hot, you could try to go a bit higher in watts, take small steps - a 3-5 watts, take a couple of puffs, see how it feels, repeat (again, increase in small increments and stop if it feels too hot or has a strange flavour). Hope something helps and pls tell us the results ^^
I get massive clouds at 40 watts, can't really see the point in going higher.
Also, I was only a casual smoker but I went for 12 mg juice because I figured then i would have to smoke less to get a nicotine hit.I hope I haven't created a massive addiction for myself lol.
On September 30 2017 14:16 tomatriedes wrote: I get massive clouds at 40 watts, can't really see the point in going higher.
Also, I was only a casual smoker but I went for 12 mg juice because I figured then i would have to smoke less to get a nicotine hit.I hope I haven't created a massive addiction for myself lol.
It's quite high, really depends on how much you end up vaping. If you're sitting at the computer with it in your hand for a few hours a day, I think you'll build a physical dependence. I think it's better to see how much you vape, and then choose concentration from there, rather than control how many puffs per day you'll take.
Also if you're making your own juice, nicotine salts will give you a larger nicotine hit than freebase, due to its lower half-life in the body.
Anyway, I like to be in a position where I'm not suffering if I'm not vaping for half a day, or two days, I don't think that'd be possible for me at 12mg. But there's nothing too harmful to getting addicted to nicotine, much like getting addicted to eating really tasty food, just my opinion.
Ijoy RDTA 5, single coil ohming at 0.49, kanthal a1, 28ga, twisted wire (3x) on top of Evic vt, vaping at around 20watts yes, I get a lot of vapour, even at that low wattage I'm using some vape-mail liquid which reminds me, have you tried any prescription boxes? This vape-mail juice has been pretty good, have also tried Zamplebox.
I moslty use high VG liquids, have never had any problems (it can cause issues with wicking in some tanks since it's thicker than PG)
What I enjoy about vaping and especially rebuilding/diy side is the customisation. Since preferences are subjective, I can have it which way I like. I can add or switch flavours easily, I can go for more clouds or more intense flavour with small tweaks, can make it warmer or colder, depending or mood, there's a lot to play with.
Smoked for 20 years, stopped 14 days ago thanks to vaping.
Started with an Aspire Zelos kit (Nautilus 2 tank), sadly got a shitty one that leaked and gurgled like mad, was so stressed that i almost went back to fags. Went ahead and gave the Nautilus Mini a try, works a treat. Firing 1.9 ohms at 12w, works as it should.
Already went way overboard by ordering today: Smoant Charon 218 TS (Wood trim!), a Kayfun Mini v3, a Vandy Vape Kylin, a Cubis 2, Wotofo Serpent SMM and well, a Doggystyle 2k16. Next to a Coil Master Rebuild Kit and other niggly bits like atomiser stands etc.
Can say that vaping enabled me to stop smoking, 10/10. Need to read into stuff now in regards to coil making, what wire to use for MTL setups like the Kayfun etc blabla, it's not entirely what i'd call "uncomplicated" once you jump into the deeper end.
edit: in regards to nicotine, it depends on the atomiser as well, i figured. My Nautilus 2 went through 6ml easily per day (mostly due to leaking, so maybe not necessarily a good comparison). With my non-leaking Nautilus Mini i have a good comparison though, i go through roughly 2ml juice per day with that. That's 24mg nicotine per full tank. A normal cigarette has roughly 1mg nicotine, so 1-1, it'd be 24 fags a day which is roughly what i've smoked before (little bit less).
But, here's the important part, nicotine in vapour isn't absorbed as "efficiently" as from a cigarette. If you'd manage to puff 1ml in one drag, that doesn't mean you now absorbed 12mg of nicotine. It's more around 50ish percent that you absorb.
edit2: should mention, i like "stealth vaping" - i use it as a smoking replacement, my wife as "snacking" (for the lack of a better term, flavour basically). No cloud chasing allowed, because (that's just my opinion), it looks absolutely idiotic.
On October 03 2017 14:11 m4ini wrote: Smoked for 20 years, stopped 14 days ago thanks to vaping.
Started with an Aspire Zelos kit (Nautilus 2 tank), sadly got a shitty one that leaked and gurgled like mad, was so stressed that i almost went back to fags. Went ahead and gave the Nautilus Mini a try, works a treat. Firing 1.9 ohms at 12w, works as it should.
Already went way overboard by ordering today: Smoant Charon 218 TS (Wood trim!), a Kayfun Mini v3, a Vandy Vape Kylin, a Cubis 2, Wotofo Serpent SMM and well, a Doggystyle 2k16. Next to a Coil Master Rebuild Kit and other niggly bits like atomiser stands etc.
Can say that vaping enabled me to stop smoking, 10/10. Need to read into stuff now in regards to coil making, what wire to use for MTL setups like the Kayfun etc blabla, it's not entirely what i'd call "uncomplicated" once you jump into the deeper end.
edit: in regards to nicotine, it depends on the atomiser as well, i figured. My Nautilus 2 went through 6ml easily per day (mostly due to leaking, so maybe not necessarily a good comparison). With my non-leaking Nautilus Mini i have a good comparison though, i go through roughly 2ml juice per day with that. That's 24mg nicotine per full tank. A normal cigarette has roughly 1mg nicotine, so 1-1, it'd be 24 fags a day which is roughly what i've smoked before (little bit less).
But, here's the important part, nicotine in vapour isn't absorbed as "efficiently" as from a cigarette. If you'd manage to puff 1ml in one drag, that doesn't mean you now absorbed 12mg of nicotine. It's more around 50ish percent that you absorb.
edit2: should mention, i like "stealth vaping" - i use it as a smoking replacement, my wife as "snacking" (for the lack of a better term, flavour basically). No cloud chasing allowed, because (that's just my opinion), it looks absolutely idiotic.
Most things I've read say that you absorb 0.9-1mg per cigarette and it's a lot more than 50% in vaping. When the technology wasn't developed very well 5-10 years ago, around 50% was the case. It's closer to 70-85% for Sub-ohm nowadays.
Maybe I need to up my juice from 3mg to 6??? Maybe that would help?
But when I'm in a good mood, it just is so nice to smoke my beloved cigarettes... Please help me, my old friend won't see me anymore because he doesn't want his 3-year-old daughter to see smoking.
Everyone hates smokers very much too, more than any other drug.
I want to relax with my nice little vape, but it's getting dusty..
Your friend is a moron. Vape culture is the mother of all add scams (smokers want to stop, there is this product that helps but is kinda healthy/not killing you...). If it helps you stop smoking, vaping is ok.
On October 04 2017 07:03 james1024 wrote: I have a nice vape.
It is a smok-little cute red guy for about 80$.
But I am still smoking cigs.
I have marlboro madness. It's a problem.
Maybe I need to up my juice from 3mg to 6??? Maybe that would help?
But when I'm in a good mood, it just is so nice to smoke my beloved cigarettes... Please help me, my old friend won't see me anymore because he doesn't want his 3-year-old daughter to see smoking.
Everyone hates smokers very much too, more than any other drug.
I want to relax with my nice little vape, but it's getting dusty..
3mg is way too little for a serious smoker.
How many cigarettes / day? What wattage, and how much juice per day were you vaping?
Start at 6mg at bare minimum in your case, but 12 (and even 18 if you had serious smoking addiction) is acceptable too. Once you get in the vaping habit, and not carrying a lighter or cigarettes with you, it's much easier to stick with it and go down in nicotine and not go back to smoking. When you lower nicotine levels, you might vape a bit more liquid at first, but over time your body naturally goes down to the volume you were at before.
Because if you're working and have breaks, you can only vape so much, when you're home you can only vape so much since you also have things to do. Essentially it's a continuously light push to lower your nicotine intake, and one that isn't overwhelming. Take it steady, start higher if you have to. At the incremental decreases I have in mind, I believe even the heaviest smokers can be at 0 nicotine in 3-6 months if that's their goal with very little discomfort. I think that's little time relative to our lives, and so there's no reason to rush it even more and make an instantaneous jump. Do it right the first time.
You can also buy some nicotine salts: https://thebrokevaper.ca/shop/flavourless-salt-base/ They have a nic absorption profile far more similar to cigarettes, and you can spike your e-liquids with them. Shake well, let them sit for a day and good to go.
@Velr Prefer if you didn't post here. This is a thread about vaping, you come here and agree that health effects aren't particularly negative... And then just saying vaping is stupid.
It's like me going to the fountain pen thread and saying fountain pens are stupid, or men's fashion thread and calling men's fashion stupid, going to a fan club and calling that person stupid, etc. You'd surely get a warning. I'm all for substantiated claims that vaping is very unhealthy (since that will give me something to think about), or statistics showing that people who vape commit more homicides (assuming it's a legit study).
But people sharing their negative feelings about vaping does nothing for the thread.
On October 03 2017 14:11 m4ini wrote: Smoked for 20 years, stopped 14 days ago thanks to vaping.
Started with an Aspire Zelos kit (Nautilus 2 tank), sadly got a shitty one that leaked and gurgled like mad, was so stressed that i almost went back to fags. Went ahead and gave the Nautilus Mini a try, works a treat. Firing 1.9 ohms at 12w, works as it should.
Already went way overboard by ordering today: Smoant Charon 218 TS (Wood trim!), a Kayfun Mini v3, a Vandy Vape Kylin, a Cubis 2, Wotofo Serpent SMM and well, a Doggystyle 2k16. Next to a Coil Master Rebuild Kit and other niggly bits like atomiser stands etc.
Can say that vaping enabled me to stop smoking, 10/10. Need to read into stuff now in regards to coil making, what wire to use for MTL setups like the Kayfun etc blabla, it's not entirely what i'd call "uncomplicated" once you jump into the deeper end.
edit: in regards to nicotine, it depends on the atomiser as well, i figured. My Nautilus 2 went through 6ml easily per day (mostly due to leaking, so maybe not necessarily a good comparison). With my non-leaking Nautilus Mini i have a good comparison though, i go through roughly 2ml juice per day with that. That's 24mg nicotine per full tank. A normal cigarette has roughly 1mg nicotine, so 1-1, it'd be 24 fags a day which is roughly what i've smoked before (little bit less).
But, here's the important part, nicotine in vapour isn't absorbed as "efficiently" as from a cigarette. If you'd manage to puff 1ml in one drag, that doesn't mean you now absorbed 12mg of nicotine. It's more around 50ish percent that you absorb.
edit2: should mention, i like "stealth vaping" - i use it as a smoking replacement, my wife as "snacking" (for the lack of a better term, flavour basically). No cloud chasing allowed, because (that's just my opinion), it looks absolutely idiotic.
Most things I've read say that you absorb 0.9-1mg per cigarette and it's a lot more than 50% in vaping. When the technology wasn't developed very well 5-10 years ago, around 50% was the case. It's closer to 70-85% for Sub-ohm nowadays.
Yes, it's higher than it was on the first generation e-cigs etc, but still nowhere near actual smoking.
Now, they wouldn't have checked sub ohm vaping, because realistically, it's irrelevant. If we're talking nicotine levels, we're talking someone using it as a smoke-replacement (stealth, smoke-like), and sub ohm is not that - not even remotely. MTL RTAs all have one thing in common, high resistance and highly restrictive airflow (to "accurately" simulate a smoke).
Note, i'm not bashing sub ohming or anything, i'm just saying that sub ohming for nicotine is the same as drinking methadone for heroin addicts. Maybe not entirely, but i guess you understand what i'm trying to say. I just recently stopped smoking, and certainly ordered a few RTAs now including a second mod (and already looking at squonkers and RDA/RDTAs) already, but i'd never smoke nicotine in those. That's just me though, for my nicotine habit i'm still going to use the Nautilus Mini, possibly the Kayfun Mini V3 once i have it (and works decently).
Don't trust me on this though, ask any (decent) reviewer on youtube, who all still use MTL setups for "fag replacement" - next to their drippers etc.
I'm all for substantiated claims that vaping is very unhealthy (since that will give me something to think about), or statistics showing that people who vape commit more homicides (assuming it's a legit study).
That's the one thing i'd like to see too - actual, science based (not guesswork by some moron) research on health risks, especially compared to actual smoking (not things like "VG makes you shit your brains out! It's a laxative!!1"). Even better with long term studies. For me personally, my sense of smell after 20 years seems to be improving a lot - it feels a bit like a newly gifted super power, it's quite the ridiculous sensation.
edit: in regards to TPD btw, since i live in the UK, and have family/friends in germany, it's EU-wide. It's correct that legally you can only sell 2ml tanks. Doesn't impact me, most tanks actually come with a second glass for the tank, considerably bigger. Not that i need it, 2ml carries me through most of the day, but alas. Most shops don't give a shit anyway, some even suggest simply ordering from fasttech and the sorts. It's a mess anyways, because the restrictions (all restrictions) only count for things that contain nicotine. A freshly bought tank does not. It could, obviously, but it could also be bought by a cloud chaser who's using it without nicotine. Most "big" names such as Aspire, if they don't include the bigger glass already, offer things like this here. http://evapo.co.uk/accessories/aspire-nautilus-x-adapter.html
No idea about the legality, but it certainly is an option. Another option is simply using RTAs, which are a grey area under the law. My Vandy Vape Kylin for example comes stock with a 6ml tank.
[quote]For advanced vapers there is also the option of using RDTAs and RTAs that hold more than 2ml of E-Liquid. Whether or not they are subject to TPD is still a grey area despite the law already being in place. Some manufacturers are working around it by supplying the tank with a 2 ml capacity glass and including an extension glass with the kit.
The Vandy Vape Kylin RTA for example comes with a 6ml chimney and Pyrex glass!/quote]
So yeah.. The only real restriction that TPD places (although still work-aroundable) is the limit on size of bottles that include nicotine (10ml). I make my own, so that doesn't matter to me either.
On October 03 2017 14:11 m4ini wrote: Smoked for 20 years, stopped 14 days ago thanks to vaping.
Started with an Aspire Zelos kit (Nautilus 2 tank), sadly got a shitty one that leaked and gurgled like mad, was so stressed that i almost went back to fags. Went ahead and gave the Nautilus Mini a try, works a treat. Firing 1.9 ohms at 12w, works as it should.
Already went way overboard by ordering today: Smoant Charon 218 TS (Wood trim!), a Kayfun Mini v3, a Vandy Vape Kylin, a Cubis 2, Wotofo Serpent SMM and well, a Doggystyle 2k16. Next to a Coil Master Rebuild Kit and other niggly bits like atomiser stands etc.
Can say that vaping enabled me to stop smoking, 10/10. Need to read into stuff now in regards to coil making, what wire to use for MTL setups like the Kayfun etc blabla, it's not entirely what i'd call "uncomplicated" once you jump into the deeper end.
edit: in regards to nicotine, it depends on the atomiser as well, i figured. My Nautilus 2 went through 6ml easily per day (mostly due to leaking, so maybe not necessarily a good comparison). With my non-leaking Nautilus Mini i have a good comparison though, i go through roughly 2ml juice per day with that. That's 24mg nicotine per full tank. A normal cigarette has roughly 1mg nicotine, so 1-1, it'd be 24 fags a day which is roughly what i've smoked before (little bit less).
But, here's the important part, nicotine in vapour isn't absorbed as "efficiently" as from a cigarette. If you'd manage to puff 1ml in one drag, that doesn't mean you now absorbed 12mg of nicotine. It's more around 50ish percent that you absorb.
edit2: should mention, i like "stealth vaping" - i use it as a smoking replacement, my wife as "snacking" (for the lack of a better term, flavour basically). No cloud chasing allowed, because (that's just my opinion), it looks absolutely idiotic.
Most things I've read say that you absorb 0.9-1mg per cigarette and it's a lot more than 50% in vaping. When the technology wasn't developed very well 5-10 years ago, around 50% was the case. It's closer to 70-85% for Sub-ohm nowadays.
Yes, it's higher than it was on the first generation e-cigs etc, but still nowhere near actual smoking.
Now, they wouldn't have checked sub ohm vaping, because realistically, it's irrelevant. If we're talking nicotine levels, we're talking someone using it as a smoke-replacement (stealth, smoke-like), and sub ohm is not that - not even remotely. MTL RTAs all have one thing in common, high resistance and highly restrictive airflow (to "accurately" simulate a smoke).
Note, i'm not bashing sub ohming or anything, i'm just saying that sub ohming for nicotine is the same as drinking methadone for heroin addicts. Maybe not entirely, but i guess you understand what i'm trying to say. I just recently stopped smoking, and certainly ordered a few RTAs now including a second mod (and already looking at squonkers and RDA/RDTAs) already, but i'd never smoke nicotine in those. That's just me though, for my nicotine habit i'm still going to use the Nautilus Mini, possibly the Kayfun Mini V3 once i have it (and works decently).
Don't trust me on this though, ask any (decent) reviewer on youtube, who all still use MTL setups for "fag replacement" - next to their drippers etc.
I'm all for substantiated claims that vaping is very unhealthy (since that will give me something to think about), or statistics showing that people who vape commit more homicides (assuming it's a legit study).
That's the one thing i'd like to see too - actual, science based (not guesswork by some moron) research on health risks, especially compared to actual smoking. Even better with long term studies.
I have maybe 10 pals who I am okay friends with, and we all switched from smoking right into sub-ohm vaping. It wasn't a conscious decision to create as much smoke as possible... It was a let's see what's popular and good quality, and this is what we will get.
I don't see why sub-ohm is not a smoking replacement. It satisfies cravings, gives your hands something to do when you're bored, gives me things to do if my coworkers go out for a smoke and not feel left out, and am able to go and socialize (yeah yeah, I know). I'm able to adjust power until it burns my throat enough (though I liked shisha for a while, and so I prefer a very smooth inhale, never smoked for that throat hit). But anyway, your assessment of a smoking replacement is that in every way it behaves like a traditional cigarette, I don't think that's fair, because for example a nicotine patch is nothing like a cigarette yet still considered a cigarette replacement.
And heck, on pretty much any decent sub-ohm you're able to adjust airflow to make it very restrictive, as well as lower voltage until it behaves very similarly to a cigarette. You don't in fact need high resistance. Combine ohm's law with p=vi, and you get P=i^2*R, solve for R = P/i^2 set desired power and maximum battery current of batteries (say 20A for single batteries, can be 30A for some batteries) R = 20W/(20A)^2
0.05ohms, so if you want to mimic a cigarette (which pretty much always is 20W or less), you could do it with a 0.05ohm coil. If you want less power, you'd lower to voltage which would lower the voltage, which would lower the current. I think the only thing that stops you from making it work perfectly is that the coils that make lots of clouds will have lots of surface area, and you wont be able to heat the liquid to a high enough temperature to vaporize it or make it hot enough if you run a low (relative to sub-ohm) voltage. So you'd need a coil replacement.
I'm out right now, but I'll re-find some of the studies afterwards.
edit: As for the TPD part of the post, I agree, definitely possible to workaround, but it's wasting money of the taxpayer, creates hassle for the consumers, and the less experienced ones might not know these workarounds for some time.
Also there's some bullshit, like I can chain smoke 10 cigarettes in a row, but now for some reason I can't have 24mg/ml nicotine? The chance of nicotine poisoning is like impossible without drinking it, and high nicotine levels will just taste gross. The law doesn't achieve anything with the 2% nicotine level, and a 1cm long nozzle, what why. Some of it is good imo, like the emissions testing and nicotine warning, but that's about it.
An “electronic cigarette” is defined as a product that
can be used for the consumption of nicotine-containing vapour via a mouth piece, or any component of that product, including a cartridge, a tank and the device without cartridge or tank (regardless of whether the product is disposable or refillable by means of a refill container and a tank, or rechargeable with single use cartridges); and is not a medicinal product or medical device; Notification about electronic cigarettes and refill containers
A transition period for products not compliant with the TPD will allow them to remain on sale until 20th May 2017. It principally defines:
“a new transitional product”: a product which is not a modified product during the period beginning with 20th May 2016 and ending with 19th November 2016
“an existing product”: a product first supplied before 20th May 2016 that is being supplied on or after 20th November 2016
Annual reporting requirement and submission of information
The Secretary of State is at the center of the process and will receive notifications. Notifications should be submitted through the EU gateway and become valid after paying the notification fee.
In turn, the Secretary of State must ensure that submitted information is made publicly available on a website, taking the need to protect trade secrets duly into account. The Secretary of State must also provide the European Commission and the competent authorities of other member States with access to information submitted in accordance with any provision of this Part on request, ensuring that trade secrets are treated in a confidential manner.
Product requirements
Nicotine-containing liquid which is presented for retail sale must be in a dedicated refill container in a volume not exceeding 10 millilitres; or a disposable electronic cigarette, a single use cartridge, or a tank, in a volume not exceeding 2 millilitres. The capacity of the tank of a refillable electronic cigarette must not exceed 2 millilitres. Nicotine-containing liquid which is presented for retail sale in an electronic cigarette or refill container must not contain nicotine in excess of 20 milligrams per millilitre. Nicotine-containing liquid in an electronic cigarette or refill container must not contain any additive referred to in regulation 16 (no vitamins, colourings or prohibited additives in tobacco products); must be manufactured using only ingredients of high purity; must not contain substances other than the ingredients notified under regulation 31, unless present in trace levels, where such trace levels are technically unavoidable during manufacture; and must not include ingredients (except for nicotine) which pose a risk to human health in heated or unheated form. An electronic cigarette must be able to deliver a dose of nicotine at consistent levels under normal conditions of use. An electronic cigarette or refill container must be child-resistant and tamper-evident; and protected against breakage and leakage. An electronic cigarette or refill container must have a mechanism for ensuring re-filling without leakage (unless it is a disposable electronic cigarette). Product information and labelling requirements
Each unit packet of the electronic cigarette or refill container must include a leaflet with information on: instructions for use and storage of the product, including a reference that the product is not recommended for use by young people and non-smokers; contra-indications; warnings for specific risk groups; possible adverse effects; addictiveness and toxicity; contact details of the producer; and if the producer is not based in a member State, a contact person within a member State. Each unit packet and any container pack must include a list of all ingredients contained in the product set out in descending order by weight; an indication of the nicotine content of the product and the delivery per dose; the batch number; and a recommendation to keep the product out of reach of children. Each unit packet and any container pack must carry a health warning consisting of the text: “This product contains nicotine which is a highly addictive substance”. The health warning must appear on both the front and back surfaces of the unit packet and any container pack; cover 30% of the area of each of those surfaces, calculated in relation to the area of the surface concerned when the pack is closed; be in black Helvetica bold type on a white background; be in a font size which ensures that the text occupies the greatest possible proportion of the surface area reserved for it; and appear at the centre of that area. The health warning must be parallel to the main text on the surface concerned. Product presentation requirement
The unit packet and any container pack of the electronic cigarette or refill container may not include any element or feature that: promotes an electronic cigarette or refill container, or encourages its consumption by creating an erroneous impression about its characteristics, health effects, risks or emissions; suggests that a particular electronic cigarette or refill container is less harmful than other electronic cigarettes or refill containers, has vitalising, energising, healing, rejuvenating, natural or organic properties, or has other health or lifestyle benefits; refers to taste, smell or other additives (except flavourings) or the absence of any such thing; resembles a food or a cosmetic product; or suggests that a particular electronic cigarette or refill container has improved biodegradability or other environmental advantages. The unit pack or container pack in which an electronic cigarette or refill container is, or is intended to be, presented for retail sale may not contain any element or feature which suggests economic advantage by including printed vouchers or offering discounts, free distribution, two-for-one or other similar offers. Vigilance requirements
A producer of electronic cigarettes or refill containers must establish and maintain a system for collecting information about all of the suspected adverse effects on human health of the product.
In addition to that, a producer can also warn the Secretary of his State or of any other State if he considers that the product he has is not:
safe; of good quality; or in conformity with this Part of the Regulations. The Secretary of State or the competent authority of any other member State may request additional information from a producer of electronic cigarettes or refill containers, including information on the safety and quality aspects or any adverse effects of electronic cigarettes or refill containers.
Action to protect human health
If the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds to believe that an electronic cigarette or refill container, or a type of electronic cigarette or refill container, could present a serious risk to human health.
The Secretary may take appropriate provisional measures to address the risk to human health. The measures include, but are not limited to
prohibiting the supply of the electronic cigarette or refill container, or the type of electronic cigarette or refill container; requiring each supplier of the electronic cigarette or refill container, or the type of electronic cigarette or refill container, to recall the product. The Secretary of State may take appropriate follow-up measures to implement any conclusions of the European Commission in relation to the matter. Any producer or supplier of a product that is the subject of a provisional measure or a follow-up measure must comply with the measure insofar as it applies to that producer or supplier.
Electronic cigarette advertising
It means an advertisement with:
the aim of promoting an electronic cigarette or refill container; or the direct or indirect effect of promoting one. No advertising of electronic cigarettes in the press (newspaper, periodical or magazine) except:
a newspaper, periodical or magazine which is intended exclusively for professionals in the trade of electronic cigarettes or refill containers; or a newspaper, periodical or magazine which is printed and published in a third country and is not principally intended for the Union market. No advertising of electronic cigarettes in information society services. The derogation condition:
necessary for the purposes of public policy, the protection of public health or the protection of consumers (“the objective”); relates to an information society service that prejudices the objective or presents a serious and grave risk of prejudice to the objective; and proportionate to the objective. This does not apply:
to an information society service which is intended exclusively for professionals in the trade of electronic cigarettes or refill containers; or to an electronic cigarette advertisement which is not principally intended for the Union market. No sponsorship of events. In this regulation “electronic cigarette sponsorship” means any form of public or private contribution to any event, activity or individual, with the aim or direct or indirect effect of promoting an electronic cigarette or refill container:
an event or activity which takes place in or has an effect in two or more member States (“a cross-border event or activity”); or an individual taking part in a cross-border event or activity. Distance sales to consumers
Cross-border distance sales of tobacco products and electronic cigarettes by foreign companies to UK consumers will continue to be permitted. It requires the person to register with the Secretary of State if he/she is:
a retailer established in the United Kingdom who engages or intends to engage in a crossborder distance sale of a relevant product with a consumer located in any other member State; and a retailer who is established elsewhere than in the United Kingdom who engages or intends to engage in a cross-border distance sale of a relevant product with a consumer located in the United Kingdom. A person seeking registration must submit to the Secretary of State the retailer information, the additional information and such other information as the Secretary of State may reasonably require.
The retailer information is:
the retailer’s name; the retailer’s trading name, if different; the address of each place of business used by the retailer for the supply of a relevant product; the date on which the retailer first supplied or, if the retailer has not yet so supplied, intends to supply a relevant product via a cross border distance sale; the address of any website on which the retailer offers or intends to offer to supply a product, together with any other information required to identify the website; and a description of the details and functioning of the retailer’s age verification system. The additional information is:
a confirmation of any registration provided by the competent authority of any member State in which the retailer is registered to supply products via a cross-border distance sale to a consumer located in that member State; and the name of any other member State to which the retailer has applied, or is intending to apply, for registration. The Secretary of State must:
provide confirmation of registration to a retailer who complies with paragraph (2); publish a list of retailers registered with the Secretary of State. A cross-border distance sale can only be concluded if:
the retailer has received confirmation of registration from the Secretary of State and from the competent authority of any member State in which the consumer is located or in which the retailer is established; the retailer operates an age verification system; and prior to, or at the time of sale, the retailer’s age verification system confirms that the consumer’s age is not lower than the minimum age applicable for the purchase of the product in the member State in which the consumer is located. A retailer must not supply a relevant product via a cross-border distance sale to a consumer located in a member State in which cross-border distances sales are prohibited in accordance with Article 18(1) of the Tobacco Products Directive.
Penalties and enforcement
Guilty of an offence:
breaches any provision of Part 6 (electronic cigarettes) except regulations 32(5) (annual reporting requirement) and 34 (Secretary of State duty to publish notifications); breaches any provision of regulations 42, 43 or 44 (advertising and sponsorship); or supplies a product in breach of regulation 47 (cross border distance sales of tobacco products and electronic cigarettes etc.). Is guilty of an offence a producer or retailer who provides information to a person pursuant to any obligation in these Regulations if
the information is false or misleading in a material particular; and the producer or retailer who provides the information either knows it to be false or misleading in a material particular, or is reckless as to whether it is false or misleading in a material particular. Penalties. A person guilty of an offence under these Regulations is liable
on summary conviction: in England and Wales to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or a fine or both, or in Scotland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding twelve months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both; in Northern Ireland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both; or on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years, or a fine, or both. Enforcement. It is the duty of each weights and measures authority in Great Britain and each district council in Northern Ireland to enforce these Regulations within their area.
In determining how to comply with paragraph (1) in relation to regulations 42 and 43 (electronic cigarette advertising), every enforcement authority must have regard to the desirability of encouraging control of advertising by such established means as it considers appropriate, having regard to all the circumstances of the particular case.
No argument in regards to the TPD, it does nothing but hassle people.
In regards to replacement, every single person i know trying to stop smoking with nic-patches went back to fags. Smoking is as much a habit as it is a physical addiction. I smoked for 20 years, i can't do DTL. I have a mod sitting here with a Serpent SSM, i can't. It's not smoking. Arguing that it is, is kinda denying reality - DTL has nothing to do with smoking. That's why MTL setups exist in the first place (even if they're getting rare, with only 2-3 RTAs releasing in the next 2 months).
I'm glad you figured that your idea of using a 0.05 ohms coil is kinda pointless, because it wouldn't work. To fire at 20W (which btw is 6 watts higher than the maximum that my coils can run on, and almost double what i'm actually firing at), you need: a mod able to fire 0.05 ohms in the first place. Most don't. Of the few that do, most only do it in TC, but not VW. Lets assume you have a regulated mod that does allow it, you're firing the coil at a whopping volt. A single one. This will not produce any vapour unless you're trying to fire it on the sun. And that already draws 20A.
Now, there is a method of firing it, and that's a mechanical mod. That mechanical mod will draw 84amps. I don't need to elaborate what happens then.
And if all this doesn't happen, and you find a regulated mod that fires a 0.05 ohm coil in BM, it will 100% shut off really quick with a "device too hot" error because the batteries are still melting. Especially 18650s, which is the "go to" cell for any average joe including me. Or if you're using a wonky chipset, i't just shut off because it detected a dead short.
I'm sorry if i come off like an asshat (i recently stopped smoking, hehe, might be partially the reason), but that suggestion is A not working, B highly dangerous if used in the wrong device. There's a reason why these types of coils do not exist outside of competitions, and especially not in any MTL setup.
Again. I'm not bashing sub ohming, if you like it, all the power to you. I'm telling you that as someone who already smoked before quite a few people here were born, DTL doesn't do it for me, nor for my mother in law. It does not satisfy the habit. Also, forgot to mention, with high airflow RTAs, if you restrict them so much and have a "hard" drag on them, you'll flood them immediately. Hell i've flooded a dedicated MTL tank with BVC coils that way.
If you stopped smoking by switching to sub ohming, you could've also stopped smoking by getting a fidget spinner and a nic patch, maybe bubble gum. Something i could not (as much as it sucks to admit).
edit: jeez, i'm not trying to be offensive, that's reserved for other people here. Reads like it, but wasn't supposed to.
On October 04 2017 11:07 m4ini wrote: No argument in regards to the TPD, it does nothing but hassle people.
In regards to replacement, every single person i know trying to stop smoking with nic-patches went back to fags. Smoking is as much a habit as it is a physical addiction. I smoked for 20 years, i can't do DTL. I have a mod sitting here with a Serpent SSM, i can't. It's not smoking. Arguing that it is, is kinda denying reality - DTL has nothing to do with smoking. That's why MTL setups exist in the first place (even if they're getting rare, with only 2-3 RTAs releasing in the next 2 months).
I'm glad you figured that your idea of using a 0.05 ohms coil is kinda pointless, because it wouldn't work. To fire at 20W (which btw is 6 watts higher than the maximum that my coils can run on, and almost double what i'm actually firing at), you need: a mod able to fire 0.05 ohms in the first place. Most don't. Of the few that do, most only do it in TC, but not VW. Lets assume you have a regulated mod that does allow it, you're firing the coil at a whopping volt. A single one. This will not produce any vapour unless you're trying to fire it on the sun. And that already draws 20A.
Now, there is a method of firing it, and that's a mechanical mod. That mechanical mod will draw 84amps. I don't need to elaborate what happens then.
And if all this doesn't happen, and you find a regulated mod that fires a 0.05 ohm coil in BM, it will 100% shut off really quick with a "device too hot" error because the batteries are still melting. Especially 18650s, which is the "go to" cell for any average joe including me. Or if you're using a wonky chipset, i't just shut off because it detected a dead short.
I'm sorry if i come off like an asshat (i recently stopped smoking, hehe, might be partially the reason), but that suggestion is A not working, B highly dangerous if used in the wrong device. There's a reason why these types of coils do not exist outside of competitions, and especially not in any MTL setup.
Again. I'm not bashing sub ohming, if you like it, all the power to you. I'm telling you that as someone who already smoked before quite a few people here were born, DTL doesn't do it for me, nor for my mother in law. It does not satisfy the habit. Also, forgot to mention, with high airflow RTAs, if you restrict them so much and have a "hard" drag on them, you'll flood them immediately. Hell i've flooded a dedicated MTL tank with BVC coils that way.
If you stopped smoking by switching to sub ohming, you could've also stopped smoking by getting a fidget spinner and a nic patch, maybe bubble gum. Something i could not (as much as it sucks to admit).
edit: jeez, i'm not trying to be offensive, that's reserved for other people here. Reads like it, but wasn't supposed to.
Well, i guess the main point here is, take what´s working for you best and be happy you found it. Everybody has their own preferences and vaping allows us to customize it the way we want, that´s so great about it imo. I couldn´t do direct lung either, but if you´re used to smoking shisha, i guess you can handle it way better from the get go.
But on another note, since you said, you´re using a Nautilus mini, how long are your coils lasting? I´m currently using 1.6 and 1.8 ohm coils at 12W in my Nautilus (the big one with 5 ml tank) none of them lasted longer than a good week before tasting burned....i vape around 4-5 ml per day and always prime them before using and let them sit in the full tank for 15 mins before vaping.
That´s kinda annoying, not sure if i´m just doing something wrong or they just don´t last longer.
if people can get massive vapor out of 20w alone, then the problem could be in my mod itself, cuz i barely get any vapor when i use 20w even after sucking for 6+ seconds.
But on another note, since you said, you´re using a Nautilus mini, how long are your coils lasting? I´m currently using 1.6 and 1.8 ohm coils at 12W in my Nautilus (the big one with 5 ml tank) none of them lasted longer than a good week before tasting burned....i vape around 4-5 ml per day and always prime them before using and let them sit in the full tank for 15 mins before vaping.
That´s kinda annoying, not sure if i´m just doing something wrong or they just don´t last longer.
It also depends on the juice, if it's darker or particularly sweet it will gunk the coils faster.
But on another note, since you said, you´re using a Nautilus mini, how long are your coils lasting? I´m currently using 1.6 and 1.8 ohm coils at 12W in my Nautilus (the big one with 5 ml tank) none of them lasted longer than a good week before tasting burned....i vape around 4-5 ml per day and always prime them before using and let them sit in the full tank for 15 mins before vaping.
That´s kinda annoying, not sure if i´m just doing something wrong or they just don´t last longer.
It also depends on the juice, if it's darker or particularly sweet it will gunk the coils faster.
Yeah, but so far i´ve only used fruity flavors at 5% in 50/50 base, just wanted to get some comparison since the guy in the shop told me, the coils would last somewhere between 1 and 4 weeks.
On October 04 2017 23:30 neozxa wrote: if people can get massive vapor out of 20w alone, then the problem could be in my mod itself, cuz i barely get any vapor when i use 20w even after sucking for 6+ seconds.
or maybe its my atomizer?
Probably the atomizer. If it has too much surface area (power output/mm^2 of surface area is lower)... And when you take into account the heat transfer (since the coil doesn't instantly vaporize the liquid next to it), then yeah, what can happen is you don't get any vaporization.
Check the rated wattage of the atomizer. I use the TFV8-T8 coils, these are 50-110W, and 60-80W ideal. If a vape them at 20W the vapor is barely noticeable, and at 25-30W, it's just a bit more than cigarettes. A lot of people like to get the octocoils, the 12 coil in parallel and whatnot, which is great if you want to keep resistance low and vaporize a lot of liquid, but its not good if you don't meet the minimum power demands.
Also remember, 10A and 1V isn't the same thing as 10V and 1A. Just because the quantity of energy going through is the same doesn't mean you get identical heating profiles.
Just heard something interesting. My friend whose cousin frequently uses an Albuterol inhaler to relieve her asthma went to the doctor yesterday and was told it might actually be safer to use a vape with zero nicotine to expand her airways - as opposed to using the inhaler!! Both devices contain the component propylene glycol, which is what helps open the airways The side effects of Albuterol inhalation, are typically nausea/light-headedness/shakiness. In addition to that, long term and repetitive use of one can have negative side effects on the calcium in your bones.
Haven't been able to find much clinical data/research to back this up but there is a lot of work to do be done to see what these things really do haha
honestly if anything it would only do her more harm than good as it would actually obstruct her airways more as most eliquids arent really created for therapeutic purposes
though i am looking forward to the say where therapeutic eliquid are developed to cure asthma and other minor respiratory diseases.
If you are a smoker switching to vaping is the second best thing you could do to yourself. It has been just above 3 years that I went from 30 cigarettes a day to 0 by switching to vaping instead. I must have tried/intended to stop smoking a couple hundred times before, but it was only after I switched to vaping that I could leave the cigarettes behind. In the beginning, it took only ~3 weeks until I did not have to spit out nasty slime for two minutes every morning. Your lungs will be awefully thankful if you stopped smoking and started vaping instead. Personally, I feel that the nicotine mg amounts in the OP's post are quite inaccurate since it mostly depends on what device you have, e.g. have fun inhaling 18mg or even 6mg with a 300W device. With a sub-ohm vaporizer, a 50W e-cig and 6mg liquids, I felt like my nicotine needs were quite satisfied even at the beginning. Currently, I use a 0,3 ohm coil, 30W device and 3mg liquid, which is enough to satisfy my nicotine addiction. The offers for e-cigs, vaporizes and liquids are quite overwhelming if you are just about to start with vaping, so my best advice to everyone intending to switch is to go to a local shop specialized in vaping and get some recommendations as to what to get. Else you may end up buying some 300W, $300 device loaded with 20mg liquids that makes you wanna cough your lungs out, or alternatively some $5 crappy pen that does nothing even if you load it with some absurd 50mg nicotine solution. Really, if you want to switch go to a specialized shop. It will be marginally more expenisive than ordering the correct stuff online, but way cheaper than buying the wrong stuff you read about on some outdated and/or obscure website.I am talking from experience here... Don't do the same mistake as me. Later on, when you know what you need, you can still start buying you supplies online to get a better deal.
I cannot stress enough how much better for your health and well-being vaping is compared to smoking! Honestly, it is nowhere near the same as smoking. For nearly two years, I kept catching myself longing for a cigarette. Vaping is different, but it helps to take the edge off (and then some more; when you suck on that thing, you do not feel like having to smoke).
If you are not a smoker, do not bother with vaping. It is not cool. It costs money. And "healthy" is certainly not a adjective I'd use to destribe it (especially, when you have any nicotine in your liquid).
p.s. How unhealthy vaping is, is up for debate, but compared to smoking it is several orders of magnitude less bad. It is not even remotely comparable in that aspect. Try it for a couple of weeks instead of smoking if you do not believe me,
Hi there, quite an informative thread. I quit smoking thanks to vaping. So now I advise it to everyone who asks me I was a heavy smoker for maybe 10 years. Tried all possible methods to quit, nothing worked. I like Vapingdaily. Also a good site about vaping. My story started from here. Now I vape quite rarely. But still, my favorite vaping flavors are desserts flavors as someone already said here. Like them
On March 14 2019 19:19 StrongJohn wrote: Hi there, quite an informative thread. I quit smoking thanks to vaping. So now I advise it to everyone who asks me I was a heavy smoker for maybe 10 years. Tried all possible methods to quit, nothing worked. I like Vapingdaily. Also a good site about vaping. My story started from here. Now I vape quite rarely. But still, my favorite vaping flavors are desserts flavors as someone already said here. Like them
Good stuff, congratulations
As for myself, still vaping away, went from 3mg to 1.5mg over the course of since I made the OP, never felt the need to go lower. In October, broke up with my long time gf (since 18, in my setup it was like if my whole family died and I became an orphan). Was shitty, life felt pretty empty (still hurts haha.. ha... ha.....)... Anyway, that got me back to smoking, went from zero, to pack a day, in the course of 1 day. Kept that up for two months, realized I don't want to die this quickly, so I went with nic salts. At 35mg, but very low powered mods, so tough to compare. I guess I go through around 3/4mL per day, so like 24 cigarettes equivalent in nicotine. Still smoke, maybe 4/day, but progressively cutting down.
My friend opened up a vape shop chain locally, been very successful so far, half a dozen stores opened, I'm able to get all products at wholesale prices, so it's pretty nice.
I went from using a Smok Alien to a Voopoo Drag, both are two battery mods, performance wise very similar, but the battery holder on my Alien broke, wasn't fan of that mechanism, but the software and form factor was better.
Maybe 3 months ago I switched from using sub ohm mods into those pen style kits. Initially I used a Smok Novo, similar to Juul, Aspire Breeze, etc, but it broke after just shy of 3 months. The buttonless mods are limited in lifetime because eventually juice will clog up the sensor, and they'll activate strangely. Mine stayed fired up for a second after I stopped inhaling, and just a couple days ago it got stuck all the way, and burned my coils completely. So I'd recommend getting one with a button, and definitely get one with refillable pods too, checking prices of the pods before committing to one is a smart idea too. After that issue, I bought a Innokin EQ, so far so good. Fairly large battery for a pen mod (800mAh), filling mechanism is excellent, cover for mouthpiece is smart, the inhale is excellent, would recommend.
I'm toying with the idea to join the vape club instead of smoking cigarettes. Is this something you guys would recommend? I'm not a heavy smoker ( 5-10 a day) but can't really quit since a smoke after lunch and after work are so fixed in my day that I just can't do without (though I tried)
What would be a decent beginner set? What can you recommend? I'm absolutely new to this and I don't have any friends who tried this step :/
On March 28 2019 19:41 Harris1st wrote: I'm toying with the idea to join the vape club instead of smoking cigarettes. Is this something you guys would recommend? I'm not a heavy smoker ( 5-10 a day) but can't really quit since a smoke after lunch and after work are so fixed in my day that I just can't do without (though I tried)
What would be a decent beginner set? What can you recommend? I'm absolutely new to this and I don't have any friends who tried this step :/
Since you're asking in a thread dedicated to vapers, I think you know what the general answer would be.
I'm curious about what you want to achieve by switching to vaping. Are you worried about your health and trying to reduce the long term effects of smoking? Then I could link a study from the Royale Collage of Physicians which concluded that vaping is up to 95% safer than smoking. (it's still not healthy, but healthier compared to smoking) Are you looking for a better way to help you stop smoking? There's a somewhat decent NY Times article talking about how vaping is more effective than other traditional cessation options. Are you looking just to replace the nicotine delivery method? Well, I don't think there's any debate, vaping brings so many more options. (I'm obviously biased towards vaping)
Just one thing to note, vaping will never taste like an actual cigarette. It's two different processes.
If you do decide to try it out, my recommendation would be to go to an actual physical store, ideally one where you can try out products, not sure what the situation is with those in Germany. The thing is, vaping allows for so much variation that it's hard to point to one specific item and say "get that"... My advice would be to try out some pod systems. They usually mimic quite closely the draw (the way you pull air) of a traditional cigarette and the feel (throat sensation). They're generally accessible, around 20-40 euro range, easy to use, don't require any extras (batteries, chargers etc.) Don't spend too much on liquids, get a couple of small bottles and try different aroma profiles (fruits/tobacco/desserts etc.).
Let us know how it goes, ask questions (it can be quite overwhelming in the beginning).
On March 28 2019 19:41 Harris1st wrote: I'm toying with the idea to join the vape club instead of smoking cigarettes. Is this something you guys would recommend? I'm not a heavy smoker ( 5-10 a day) but can't really quit since a smoke after lunch and after work are so fixed in my day that I just can't do without (though I tried)
What would be a decent beginner set? What can you recommend? I'm absolutely new to this and I don't have any friends who tried this step :/
I stopped smoking 18 months ago through vaping. You're pretty much in the same boat as i was, though i smoked more. A "Gewohnheitsraucher", whatever the term in english is (sorry).
Here's my thoughts after going through pretty much everything vaping has to offer, from MTL to DTL vaping (the way you inhale the vapour, MTL is cigarette style draw, DL is putting the atomiser on your lips, turning it on and then inhale through the atomiser), from regulated mods to mech mods (mod = Akkutraeger in german, mechanical mods don't have displays and are potentially dangerous, more hobbyist level with needs of knowledge in ohms law etc), from rebuildable atomisers to ready-coils, vape pens, squonk devices etc pp.
Backendampfen = MTL. That's the atomiser i started with/stopped smoking with. I proceeded down the rabbit hole, owning like 30 different atomisers and 8 mods (one of which cost me £300) - but for the beginning, a "ready coiled" (Fertigcoiler) tank is good enough. Once you turn it into a hobby or habit, i suggest you come back and look for other things like rebuildables etc.
The Nautilus pretty much uniformly is accepted as the best MTL pre-coiled tank, where you change out the coil head every few days (screw out/screw in, easy as pie). Now, i'll be real here: it's messier than smoking. The Nautilus can leak a little. You can rectify this later down the line with more advanced tanks.
Starting, at 6-10 cigarettes a day, i wouldn't suggest to go higher on nicotine than 6mg on MTL, 3mg if you decide to go DTL (the "bong style inhaling") - in fact i'd even dilute that to 1.5mg (simply because you inhale considerably more vapour this way). I started on 12mg, and am down to 6mg now - and 1.5mg on my DTL devices.
For juices, well. Here's what i suggest. Don't buy off of facebook or ebay, go into a shop if you can, or a reputable online dealer. There's no "cigarette flavour", but there's some that scratch the itch - ex smokers often try one of the various "RY4" liquids (Caramel Vanilla Tobacco), less fruity stuff. Me personally, i don't enjoy fruity things in MTL (cigarette-style) atomisers.
If needed you can PM me (in german), can explain things a bit clearer in german.
They usually mimic quite closely the draw (the way you pull air) of a traditional cigarette and the feel (throat sensation).
The first part is true for the most part (though usually not adjustable), the second part is wrong from my experience, here's why. To get the "throat hit", the scratch in your throat, with pens etc you need to go incredibly high in nicotine/high PG, because the way they're built simply doesn't allow for long chimneys.
A proper MTL device will always have a long chimney. That's why usually in Juuls etc you use considerably higher nicotine levels (in fact, that's why they're pretty much useless in the EU where the Nicsalt Juul is prohibited because they go above 20mg). That's why MTL RDAs aren't really a thing either (i have three) - at least not as a smoke replacement. If you just enjoy MTL and don't need throathit, then sure, they're great in terms of flavour - but mimicking an actual cigarette?
Only with way higher nicotine content compared to normal tanks. Case in point, my Kayfun Prime on 6mg has a more satisfying throat hit than my Juul, Blu or Bo with 18mg, which results in me chain drawing to get heat into the device to get something, resulting of course in headaches because it's three times the amount of nic i'm used to.
Thanks for the help and information. Appreciate it
My goals with the switch are definitely health based. Also my new GF hates the smell of cigarettes (or "ash tray" , her words). As I pointed out, I am not only addicted to the nicotine but the ritual as well. That is why gum or injections or bandaids are no substitute (I tried) I don't need any convincing to vape. I am already convinced. My problem is the overwhelming amount of options, be it devices, liquids and everything else. If I knew how /where to start , I would have done it a long time ago ^^' But I don't want to buy stuff for 500 bucks just to realize this device or method or liquid isn't for me. In general I don't mind if this is slightlymore expensive than smoking.
Is the "pod" system that nukem1 mentions the same as the "MTL" that m4ini mentions? That sounds like my thing.
@m4ini What do you mean with messi and leak? That sounds disturbing TBH. Does this concern only the "refill" process or is this a general thing, going of in my pocket and whatnot?
Well first and foremost, you're working with liquids here instead of pulling out a papered roll of death out of a carton. It's inherently messier, if something goes wrong, you'll get liquid in your pocket/your fingers. As a sidenote, tobacco crumbs in my pocket were as annoying, just less "wet".
Podsystems both come in MTL and DL, partially depending on the style of the pod too, pen style pods tend to be more MTL, proper podmods like a LostVape DNA Orion (not the Q, that one just plain sucks) are both.
In regards to when a tank leaks, it's usually one of two things. You either did something wrong when refilling, or it's damaged. There's exceptions, like tanks that are inherently more likely to leak, but in 18 months, the only real mess i had was a damaged Nautilus 2 than leaked in my pocket. That being said, some tanks require some "trickery" to prevent seeping liquid (not leaking, but losing a few drops and make it gurgle when you draw). In case of the Nautilus, basically, if you want to be absolutely on the safe side, you take the cap off, refill it, screw the cap on half way, turn it on its head and screw the rest in. Reason being is that if you don't do that, the created airpressure can press some liquid through the coil into the chimney/airholes.
Make no mistake: i had a Bo Pen leak too. In fact the "pods" or "cartridges" that you have to buy are "pre-leaky" when you take them out of their plastic, smeared with juice.
The slightly awkward thing is, the further you go down the rabbit hole, the better the options get. I have a few setups currently, one being a SXmini SL Class with a Kayfun Prime, that flatout hasn't leaked a single drop in 12 months, and neither has my KHW Dvarw MTL. Problem with these is, they are rebuildable tanks (called RTA). They work differently from what usually is suggested to beginners, but usually are way better quality. Think microwave meal compared to preparing a feast. RTAs don't have pre-made coils, you make the coils yourself, install it, then "install" the cotton, rather than having a premade coil.
Another thing is price. Podsystems, especially non-refillable ones (though, careful here: usually you can only refill the pod a few times - depending on the juice you use, that can go down to max. 2-3 times because the cotton of course gets ruined and for 95% of systems you can't change that), seem like a good alternative until you do the math. I'm not 100% sure of prices in germany, over here a pack of 4 pods, one being 2ml, is around 15 euros. That's 8ml for 15 bucks. I can get 100ml of juice for roughly that price. Or, once you get more comfy with stuff, you'll end up like me with 500ml of "my" juice, for roughly 30 bucks by buying just basically the aroma/concentrate and then mix it yourself with nic and pg/vg and be done with it for 6-8 weeks.
Long story short: Pen style systems have upsides, mainly due to their size, but they also have pretty big downsides (battery capacity, non-adjustable draw, non-/partially refillable, auto-firing devices usually not working after a few weeks etc). I use them when i know i'm only out for 2 or 3 hours, and feel like my "normal" setup doesn't fit my pocket. I'd suggest a normal tank, on a normal mod (the mod that i suggested btw is a decent mod that you can use with any other MTL tank or single coil DL tank). I've been through everything, that's what i go back to.
edit: btw, you mentioned "the ritual" - MTL is exactly what you want, because it's literally like smoking a fag, only that you need to press a button to make "smoke" (and i say "smoke" because some people don't get tired pointing out that it is vapour, not smoke). And you don't smell like ass afterwards.
Believe me, it's not. When i started out i was in the exact same boat as you, not understanding a quarter of it - but once you have the thing in your hand and see how it works, it's simple from there.
Get the Zelos kit, get a few juices (again, i'd suggest at least one RY4 variant, ex smokers more often than not enjoy it, including me), have a toot - if you indeed enjoy it and think you can stop through vaping, you'll advance to, well, more advanced ("proper") stuff pretty quickly.
Things to note in regards to pre coiled (so called Subohm Tanks, even though in the case of the Nautilus it's not sub ohm), once you get it, you need to "prime" it to prevent what happened to me. Once you have the nautilus, and are ready to vape - before you vape for the first time on a fresh coil, drip one or two drops of juice down the center of the coil, then refill the tank, then let it sit for 5 minutes to make sure the cotton is saturated.
Because if it isn't, and that's the mistake i made, it's basically a so called "dry hit". Or, as i like to call it, "smoking a t-shirt" (cotton). Can be pretty disgusting.
Stuff arrived yesterday, took it for my first test drive today
Tried the RY4 with 6 mg nicotine liquid. It's incedible sweet. Like sweeter than sugar. is that normal? Doesn't taste like tobacco at all
Also one fill was leaking out of the airflow. Bit of a mess
Was vaping mostly on VW mode with ~13 W and closed air holes (for the cigarette style smoking). Actually had to cough. Too much steam? Too hot? Not sure. Haven't coughed from smoking for 15 years ^^
Addiction for nicotine is not really fulfilled yet. Have to try and experiment some more
There's no "the RY4", RY4 is a flavour profile. Your ejuice is made of a few different aromas/concentrates, one of which is RY4.
And no, as was said, you will not get actual cigarette flavour in ejuices. RY4 usually is liked by ex smokers, but there isn't a guarantee - you have to find your own juice there.
VW with 13-15w is where you should be, but closed airholes seems.. off. Don't close them all the way off, you'll burn the cotton in your coil - with no airflow through the coil cooling it, you'll boil the liquid instead of vaporising it, and singe the cotton. Try the smallest available airhole.
My guess would be singed cotton, or, if you've never vaped before - i know quite a few people who're allergic to PG and cough even with zero nicotine and max VG liquid.
I think it also takes a day or two for you body to get used to PG. My boss was in the car, took a hit, and threw up all over his car the first time he tried (now he's not trying it again lol). For myself, it made me cough at first, but I had one of the bigger 2 battery 18650 mods. So at first I vaped at 35W (I think the coils were recommended for 50-60), after a half a week I went to 40, then maybe a month later to 45, and then for the rest of the year I bounced around between 45-50 depending on if I wanted a hotter or cooler hit.
Not too familiar with RY4, but a lot of flavors are overly sweet for me (and gunk up cotton quick, I think it's a bit intentional to get you to buy coils more often), so I've been making my own juice at $2/bottle of 60mL to compensate for that, until recently switching to nic salts and the little pods. I go through juice with them at a rate of a bottle per month, and getting them at cost for $7, not worth the hassle to make my own.
I've gotten a bit more familiar with my gear over the last days and I've really started to enjoy it The leaks were probably due to the fact that I "overpressed" the power button and hot steam was pouring out through every crack possbile. Also I'm closing the airholes when I'm done now to prevent leaking. Currently I have the 6mg liquid but sometimes after vaping I have the urge for a smoke. I think my lung just doesn't realize there is nicotine in the steam yet ^^' Or I have to hold it in longer. Guess smoking all those years really did render my lung unable to take stuff in
Also I haven't smoked a cigarette in 5 days now :D Yeah Me
Edit: How many draws (is that the right word here?) do you guys usually take?
On April 08 2019 22:04 Harris1st wrote: I've gotten a bit more familiar with my gear over the last days and I've really started to enjoy it The leaks were probably due to the fact that I "overpressed" the power button and hot steam was pouring out through every crack possbile. Also I'm closing the airholes when I'm done now to prevent leaking. Currently I have the 6mg liquid but sometimes after vaping I have the urge for a smoke. I think my lung just doesn't realize there is nicotine in the steam yet ^^' Or I have to hold it in longer. Guess smoking all those years really did render my lung unable to take stuff in
Also I haven't smoked a cigarette in 5 days now :D Yeah Me
Edit: How many draws (is that the right word here?) do you guys usually take?
Congrats! Glad it's been enjoyable, and hardest part is over!
You can consider trying Nic salts instead of freebase nicotine, it absorbs into your blood stream faster. It's more addictive though because your body feels the nicotine a lot more. It's become popular with the little pod mods in the last 2-3 years.
What wattage are you running it at? Quick search shows me 18-23 watts for 0.7 Ohm coil, and 10-14 Watts for the 1.8 Ohm coil. 6mL is what I started at when I was smoking around 10 a day, but that I was vaping at 45-50W, so getting at least twice the nicotine. It's definitely on the low side, but if you're able to hold off the craving, then you don't need to go up.
You can measure how much liquid you use in a day, and see roughly how many cigarette equivalent it is. 1mL of 1mg liquid is around 0.9 cigarettes. When you start, usually you want to do 25-50% higher, just to make the switch easier, because the nicotine does absorb differently. After the habit is changed, slowly taper down. Another reason to overshoot and go high nicotine is so that your body associates a high nicotine feeling with vaping, because if it only subdues the craving only a bit... Then if you're having some rough time and need some extra strong medication, you might switch back to cigarettes. Or you're at a bar drinking, and you want the stronger stuff. Anyway, just talking from personal experience, something to think about maybe!
As for me, using the Innokin EQ right now, 13.5W, 35mg nic salts. I go through 0.75-1.5mL per day. The longer I'm driving, or the longer I'm in an area where it's ok, the more I'll do it. I don't usually smoke it like a cigarette, and rather I do more spaced out draws. If at home, I'll take a hit every 3-5 minutes or so (unless I'm around other people, then I won't). If it's a smoke break at work, probably one hit every 30-45 seconds until other people are done. If driving, probably once a minute for whole trip lol (I switch to sipping my coffee very slowly).
On April 08 2019 22:04 Harris1st wrote: I've gotten a bit more familiar with my gear over the last days and I've really started to enjoy it The leaks were probably due to the fact that I "overpressed" the power button and hot steam was pouring out through every crack possbile. Also I'm closing the airholes when I'm done now to prevent leaking. Currently I have the 6mg liquid but sometimes after vaping I have the urge for a smoke. I think my lung just doesn't realize there is nicotine in the steam yet ^^' Or I have to hold it in longer. Guess smoking all those years really did render my lung unable to take stuff in
Also I haven't smoked a cigarette in 5 days now :D Yeah Me
Edit: How many draws (is that the right word here?) do you guys usually take?
Sounds good.
Well there's two options, if you really crave a cigarette, you can always go up one set to 9mg.
Contrary to what FiwiFaki said (though of course everyone is entitled to their opinion), i would not suggest to go to NicSalts. First, it's smoother (so the "throat hit" doesn't actually happen), but more importantly, it contains benzoic acid. Here's where it's up to the person to decide if they want to consume it - short term it doesn't do any damage as far as is known - nothing is known for long term usage. I also avoid colourations entirely (some people colour their juices for some reason), but again, whatever works for you is the correct thing.
You don't have to "hold it in longer", you can just smoke it like a cigarette. On my usual MTL setups i "draw" 6-10 times when there's time (and legal) to do so. Keep in mind, all smoking restrictions are also applicable to vaping (like airports, etc).
As a disclaimer to Fiwis posting: don't blast your Nautilus at 30+ watts. You'll instantly burn the cotton, and get a so called dry hit. And those are painful. Imagine swallowing a few razorblades, that should come close. 30+ watts is definitely not MTL - and the reason why it "buzzes" more on higher wattages is simply because you vaporise more juice. You'll get the same effect by just drawing twice the amount.
My mouth dries up if I want to chain vape a lot.
Downside of PG, can relate. Shouldn't happen with "pure" VG liquids, but there's barely any aromas suspended in VG afaik, meaning that even advertised "max VG" are at best 80% VG.
Just to clarify about the wattage, I was trying to say that it's a fairly low dosage of nicotine, and suggesting to get a higher nicotine concentration, rather than vape at higher wattage like m4ini said.
Yup, all my juices are high VG, usually max VG (around 80-20 like you said), and at worst 70-30. I think besides the PG, the nicotine contributes to it, 35mg is quite high after all.
Yeah, didn't mean to say you suggested that - just wanted to make sure that the next posting isn't "omg oof coughing"
I'd also suggest either going to 9mg, or simply drawing a few times more if it doesn't satisfy. In the end, things like nicotine amount are very subjective, you'd need to find your mix there. We can only give indications for that based on theories circulating with vapers. I personally started with 12mg, and went down to half that over a year, but i also smoked more (around 15-20 cigarettes a day).
35mg is indeed pretty high - so much so that it's illegal in the EU. That's why NicSalts over here, even ignoring the benzoic acid, are pretty pointless really. Also the reason why the Juul (25mg and 50mg iirc?) wasn't available until very recently when they started offering freebase pods.
I have stabilized at 13,5 W with the 0,7 Ohm coil for now. Vape about 0,5 - 1 ml a day, still with the 6 mg liquid (I can do this! ). Haven't done any excessive drinking yet, which is when the nicotine craving reeeeaally starts for me. At parties, specially with some outdoor area, were always the worst. Easy going through a pack of cigs in an evening. One of those is on saturday. Wish me luck!
Question time: When do I need a new coil? How do I notice? I still have the 1,8 Ohm new and ready to try if the 0,7 is done. If I have understood what you guys said, I need to go down on wattage if using the 1,8? Too lazy to do the math ^^'
On April 11 2019 18:54 Harris1st wrote: I have stabilized at 13,5 W with the 0,7 Ohm coil for now. Vape about 0,5 - 1 ml a day, still with the 6 mg liquid (I can do this! ). Haven't done any excessive drinking yet, which is when the nicotine craving reeeeaally starts for me. At parties, specially with some outdoor area, were always the worst. Easy going through a pack of cigs in an evening. One of those is on saturday. Wish me luck!
Question time: When do I need a new coil? How do I notice? I still have the 1,8 Ohm new and ready to try if the 0,7 is done. If I have understood what you guys said, I need to go down on wattage if using the 1,8? Too lazy to do the math ^^'
Good luck! Don't make exceptions for nights of drinking, because then I find it's easy to make exceptions for other stuff down the line.
You'll know based on the taste and hit you take. The juice will get darken and get more viscous, cottom will darken (more noticeable inside the cylinder rather than from outside). Length of time depends on the juice, usually the more sweetener in the juice, the more frequently your coils need to be replaced (crystallization in the cotton, seals up the pores, vape has a tighter inhale and tastes like burnt sugar).
I mean I'd go until it tastes bad to you, my first time I was worried because I didn't change my coils for 3 weeks, so I'm like nope, must be done now. Then I had the new coils and realized they tasted the same. Next time I let it go longer, and noticed they deteriorated quickly afterwards, around 4-5 weeks in (I had nice juice for the coils )
Every coil has a different recommended wattage range, usually it's written on the coils somewhere. The thing that determines it is the wattage for the ideal heat and harshness of the coil. Deriving it from Ohms law and power law isn't as easy as you'd think, as it's mainly dependent on the heat transfer between the wire and liquid, which is dependent on the geometry of the wire. Just cycle through their range for their coil to find a power level you like.
Every coil has a different recommended wattage range, usually it's written on the coils somewhere. The thing that determines it is the wattage for the ideal heat and harshness of the coil. Deriving it from Ohms law and power law isn't as easy as you'd think, as it's mainly dependent on the heat transfer between the wire and liquid, which is dependent on the geometry of the wire. Just cycle through their range for their coil to find a power level you like.
Pretty much. Ohms Law is mandatory once (if) you get into mech mods, where knowledge (or lack thereof) can lead to basically vaping a pipe bomb. There's even more to it than Fiwi stated, like heat capacity etc - though all that said, this information usually is only relevant in complex coils, rather than straight wire coils. The coils in my dripper are made out out of three different wires, 0.15 ohm on those coils are very different from 0.15 ohm on straight wire.
I can tell you though, i vaped the 0.7 slightly higher than you (i vaped that one at 18w), and the 1.8 ohm at around 13. The 1.8 is, if memory serves me right, rated at around 10w-14w (0.7 at 18w-23w).
It all really depends on what you like. If you like a warmer vape (my preference), go to the higher end of the given range, if you like a colder one - lower end.
One thing: don't do "half watts". When i started, i looked for that kinda "fine tuning" on mods, it's utterly useless. On your current coil, try 15w.
It's pretty easy to taste a "done" coil, it'll taste, ahm.. "off". Throat hit gets less, there's a slight burny taste somewhere.
In general, on ready coiled tanks, you get a range of wattage, that's what you stick to - no need to do maths. That's only somewhat interesting later down the line, and absolutely necessary once you go really low (MTL never, ever goes really low) in resistance.
Still going strong. Yesterday I switched the coils for the first time. Childs play really.
I noticed I bought waaaaay too much Liquid with my initial Order. At this rate I'm good till the end of the year ^^'
Switched to the 9mg nicotine ones though. Helps a lot with the addiction. Everytime I opened a beer I really really wanted a smoke with it. With 9mg I can quiet that urge much better
What are your favorite Liquids? Have to order new coils anyway, thought I order 1-2 fancy Liquids with it as well. Just to try something different