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Once again, as this is a sensitive topic and one that can cause a lot of unnecessary things to be said in the heat of the moment, be VERY careful about what you post. Think twice before actually stating something and please be considerate of anyone who may feel involved or affected. |
On July 16 2016 00:53 Ragnarork wrote:
Also, lol at that "truth" video. I don't see any sources for what he claims...
For example, there is absolutely no serious study that has given a number for the proportion of muslims in prisons. So yeah, I'd stay away from this one. Saying "the truth" based on nothing concrete is a bit of a red flag for me...
Also, the "support" for ISIS that comes from... where exactly? I can also say "This is data that was collected by a survey" before any numbers I put out, that doesn't actually prove anything.
So yeah, sources please. This is bullshit in the meantime.
I went down the rabbit hole and that number comes from a poll comissioned by Russia Today. https://www.rt.com/news/181076-isis-islam-militans-france/
Highly skeptical since that's double the total muslim population in France.
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On July 16 2016 01:11 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2016 00:53 Ragnarork wrote:
Also, lol at that "truth" video. I don't see any sources for what he claims...
For example, there is absolutely no serious study that has given a number for the proportion of muslims in prisons. So yeah, I'd stay away from this one. Saying "the truth" based on nothing concrete is a bit of a red flag for me...
Also, the "support" for ISIS that comes from... where exactly? I can also say "This is data that was collected by a survey" before any numbers I put out, that doesn't actually prove anything.
So yeah, sources please. This is bullshit in the meantime.
I went down the rabbit hole and that number comes from a poll comissioned by Russia Today. https://www.rt.com/news/181076-isis-islam-militans-france/Highly skeptical since that's double the total muslim population in France.
#justRTthings
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On July 16 2016 00:41 GoTuNk! wrote:
-27% of population (not muslims only) aged 18-24 in France have a "Positive Attitude towards ISIS".
No fucking way.
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On July 15 2016 23:36 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 23:31 nojok wrote:On July 15 2016 23:24 Incognoto wrote:On July 15 2016 23:22 nojok wrote:On July 15 2016 23:17 Reaps wrote:On July 15 2016 23:15 nojok wrote:On July 15 2016 22:56 Reaps wrote:
Keep in mind there are multiple terrorist attempts in other European country's every year, they have just been foiled by the intelligence services.
Britain for example has stopped at least 3 major terrorist attacks per year since 7/7, more recently "the poppy day killer"
If any of these attacks were successful we wouldn't be asking the question "why France"
As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, security in France could be one of the issue's. I may sound cold hearted but if all of this money was spent towards something else, I'm sure it would do a lot more towards improving the quality of life. Even with several massive attacks during the last 12 months, it's a ridiculously low number of casualties and very far from a war, specially when you can compare the number of death of civilians being bombed by our planes or car accidents.People should stop being impressed by those attacks, sure it sucks but giving it so much attention is just making those attacks worthwhile. I'm fustrated people are giving them so much impotance, that's exatcly what those guys want. Politics and people are just too happy to get something like this distracting them from real matters. What are real matters if its not stopping mass murder? Global warming, education, human rights, social equity, whatever you want which causes more than 300 deaths a year... Why don't you take your misplaced cynicism somewhere else? Why my opinion disturbs you so much? I genuinely believe it's a waste of efforts and money and that we have more important matters to take care of. We can try to improve multiple things at the same time. What you're saying is the fallacy of relative privation, aka there are kids starving in Africa so why do anything about lesser issues.
I did not say to do nothing. For you it may look like a episodic but for us, it's a year long debate with far rights growing and infringement of freedom. We're playing the terrorists's game by giving them more importance than they should have as they manage to fuel the hatred between people. We're not in northern Ireland from a few decades ago or some other places plagued by terrorism on a weekly basis.
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On July 16 2016 01:11 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2016 00:53 Ragnarork wrote:
Also, lol at that "truth" video. I don't see any sources for what he claims...
For example, there is absolutely no serious study that has given a number for the proportion of muslims in prisons. So yeah, I'd stay away from this one. Saying "the truth" based on nothing concrete is a bit of a red flag for me...
Also, the "support" for ISIS that comes from... where exactly? I can also say "This is data that was collected by a survey" before any numbers I put out, that doesn't actually prove anything.
So yeah, sources please. This is bullshit in the meantime.
I went down the rabbit hole and that number comes from a poll comissioned by Russia Today. https://www.rt.com/news/181076-isis-islam-militans-france/Highly skeptical since that's double the total muslim population in France.
Thank you for going where most of us dare not.
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On July 16 2016 01:10 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2016 01:09 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 16 2016 01:03 Ragnarork wrote:On July 16 2016 00:59 plated.rawr wrote:My condolences to anyone impacted by this. On July 15 2016 19:30 stilt wrote:
Here what the police seems to have communicate to journalist:
_ The guy seemed not very religious, he liked salsa and girls. (he apparently did not go to Syria or stuff like this)
_ He was divorcing.
_ He slept while driving this truck some days ago and was sentenced for this
_ He was mentally instable.
Could be a very deadly nervous breakdown. That would be a strange coincidence considering the context but... Any more info on this, and any sources? While most people love jumping on EVIL MUSLIMS FROM ISIS whenever a brown guy does something horrible, I find it more realistic that it's just another fucked up guy who happened to be from a muslim-centric culture. Reminds me of that guy that beheaded his former boss a while ago, yelling "Allahu Akbar", everyone was like "ISIS striked again". Turned out he was mentally instable, and the boss in question had ended up with his ex-girlfriend, and wasn't really nice to him or something, and he carried out some kind of vengeance on him. So yeah, not "terrorism" but an actual crime that the guy thought would be good looking as a djihad thing or something.... Don't you think that as long as there is some connection to Islam "Allahu Akbar" there might be a problem to solve? Even if it isn't directly about ISIS Islam wasn't the motive, according to the past grudge and what his relatives described. He was pissed and unstable. So in that case, no.
Islam is probably never THE one motive. The question is if the religion "helps" at radicalizing people because of what it teaches (or in the case of Islam can be interpreted; because muslims love to point out that it's about interpretation)
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Stefan Molyneux is a stupid piece of shit, stuck in one-dimensional thinking, failing to see the broader picture, thinking he's in the loop by citing stats and "facts", but failing to understand bias is still in those stats. He's part of the indoctrinating apparatus by withholding nuance from his narrative. Don't listen to him without a healthy portion of skepticism please.
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This is sad. Its sad because more than 80 people lost their lives, and some more may die. And yet, people everywhere had already writen the narrative. Terrorist attack, full spot, now it's trying to shoehorning this as a ISIS attack, rather than trying to give an honest answer to its citizens and families of the victims.
Seriously, the media didn't even know the identity of the attacker or any proof, and it was already written. We used to mock Fox news and the like for this shit, and now we just take it for granted.
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No it was already written because the man had reportedly shouted Allahu Ackbar, released his pre-ISIS support, and then went on a rampage. It was an open and shut case.
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France9034 Posts
On July 16 2016 01:17 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2016 01:10 Ragnarork wrote:On July 16 2016 01:09 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 16 2016 01:03 Ragnarork wrote:On July 16 2016 00:59 plated.rawr wrote:My condolences to anyone impacted by this. On July 15 2016 19:30 stilt wrote:
Here what the police seems to have communicate to journalist:
_ The guy seemed not very religious, he liked salsa and girls. (he apparently did not go to Syria or stuff like this)
_ He was divorcing.
_ He slept while driving this truck some days ago and was sentenced for this
_ He was mentally instable.
Could be a very deadly nervous breakdown. That would be a strange coincidence considering the context but... Any more info on this, and any sources? While most people love jumping on EVIL MUSLIMS FROM ISIS whenever a brown guy does something horrible, I find it more realistic that it's just another fucked up guy who happened to be from a muslim-centric culture. Reminds me of that guy that beheaded his former boss a while ago, yelling "Allahu Akbar", everyone was like "ISIS striked again". Turned out he was mentally instable, and the boss in question had ended up with his ex-girlfriend, and wasn't really nice to him or something, and he carried out some kind of vengeance on him. So yeah, not "terrorism" but an actual crime that the guy thought would be good looking as a djihad thing or something.... Don't you think that as long as there is some connection to Islam "Allahu Akbar" there might be a problem to solve? Even if it isn't directly about ISIS Islam wasn't the motive, according to the past grudge and what his relatives described. He was pissed and unstable. So in that case, no. Islam is probably never THE one motive. The question is if the religion "helps" at radicalizing people because of what it teaches (or in the case of Islam can be interpreted; because muslims love to point out that it's about interpretation)
Hmm, yeah, I see your point. Could've been a factor, though my point was that it wasn't a "terror attack". It was just (although horrible) a crime.
And about interpretations, religion *is* and will always be about that, so yeah... Not specific to Islam by the way. I can understand why some religious people want to underline that fact when you see crazy people kill in the name of that, while the former only find some spirituality in it (and manage to keep it a private affair like it should be).
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On July 16 2016 01:36 Godwrath wrote:
This is sad. Its sad because more than 80 people lost their lives, and some more may die. And yet, people everywhere had already writen the narrative. Terrorist attack, full spot, now it's trying to shoehorning this as a ISIS attack, rather than trying to give an honest answer to its citizens and families of the victims.
Seriously, the media didn't even know the identity of the attacker or any proof, and it was already written. We used to mock Fox news and the like for this shit, and now we just take it for granted.
Theres nothing wrong with assuming this was a terrorist attack giving the political climate in the world and previous attacks.
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I think this is the first terrorist attack that hasn't made me angry, or sad, or even dismayed. I just can't feel anything anymore. I once had a friend who was constantly doing drugs and messing up and he would never get his act together and fix the problems, so eventually everyone just kind of stopped caring. After a while you get desensitized to it, and you realize that it's never going to stop, it will only get worse, and the honest truth is that no one cares enough to stop it.
There will be a bunch of warm, fuzzy memes. There will be scores of politicians giving absurd platitudes about whatever pet issue they have, someone will play "Imagine" on the piano, and everyone will cry and talk about how much healing we're all doing, and then a week will pass, and no one will care anymore until the whole cycle starts all over again.
The terrorists win again.
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France9034 Posts
On July 16 2016 01:40 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2016 01:36 Godwrath wrote:
This is sad. Its sad because more than 80 people lost their lives, and some more may die. And yet, people everywhere had already writen the narrative. Terrorist attack, full spot, now it's trying to shoehorning this as a ISIS attack, rather than trying to give an honest answer to its citizens and families of the victims.
Seriously, the media didn't even know the identity of the attacker or any proof, and it was already written. We used to mock Fox news and the like for this shit, and now we just take it for granted. Theres nothing wrong with assuming this was a terrorist attack giving the political climate in the world and previous attacks.
It is always wrong to assume it's a terrorist attack before facts support that.
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On July 16 2016 01:03 NukeD wrote:
My god, I am affraid to think what the world will look like in the next 10 years. I can't imagine a scenario where things will get better regarding terrorism.
A bit unrelated, there are predictions that by 2040. Europe will be majorly muslim population, giving the 1.3 birthrate of white europe and 3.5 birthrate of muslim famillies. It takes only 2 generations of people to shift the numbers giving those rates.
For terrorism in the west, it's not likely to get better in that time frame, quite possible though. And I'm only really looking at islamist terrorism for this; for other kinds of terror groups, and other parts of the world, I don't have good info to comment on off-hand.
A fair amount of the current stuff came out of the Arab spring, and instability tends to lead to violence; in 10 years many of the trouble spots might have stabilized (maybe not full agreement or anything, but settled into a situation), and ISIS will have been destroyed as a state (will probably still exist as an organization, or at least remnants of it will, but with much less influence/power).
cowboy -> the terrorists don't win throguh stuff like that; carrying on and living your lives means the terrorists lose. They have little actual power, only what they can inspire through fear. If you don't react to them, there's very little they can do beyond a relatively modest amount of damage.
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On July 16 2016 01:42 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2016 01:40 NukeD wrote:On July 16 2016 01:36 Godwrath wrote:
This is sad. Its sad because more than 80 people lost their lives, and some more may die. And yet, people everywhere had already writen the narrative. Terrorist attack, full spot, now it's trying to shoehorning this as a ISIS attack, rather than trying to give an honest answer to its citizens and families of the victims.
Seriously, the media didn't even know the identity of the attacker or any proof, and it was already written. We used to mock Fox news and the like for this shit, and now we just take it for granted. Theres nothing wrong with assuming this was a terrorist attack giving the political climate in the world and previous attacks. It is always wrong to assume it's a terrorist attack before facts support that.
Its not wrong to assume anything. Its wrong to clam it was a terrorist attack.
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In this case there was no assumption. There were reporters on hand immediately who were actually there while the attack took place. If a man starts shouting Allahu Akbar and rampages, and you can actually hear it odds are you have a pretty good idea.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the Saudi 911 attackers reportedly ate pork, went to strip clubs, but still shouted Allahu Akbar in the end.
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imgur.com/uJiW0Sx.png
User was warned for this post
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On July 16 2016 01:45 zlefin wrote:
cowboy -> the terrorists don't win throguh stuff like that; carrying on and living your lives means the terrorists lose. They have little actual power, only what they can inspire through fear. If you don't react to them, there's very little they can do beyond a relatively modest amount of damage.
Those are the platitudes I'm talking about. Living my life doesn't defeat terrorists. Especially because we all change our habits based on terrorism. We have a harder time getting on planes, or into events. We have to be more careful when we're in a crowd. We are less willing to discuss certain topics and less willing to trust foreigners.
And what have they lost? What political defeat has the radical Islamic suffered in the last decade? His numbers are growing, his support is growing, his friends are growing, and his enemies have capitulated.
If they kill one of us, and we don't kill two of them, they win.
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On July 16 2016 01:40 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2016 01:36 Godwrath wrote:
This is sad. Its sad because more than 80 people lost their lives, and some more may die. And yet, people everywhere had already writen the narrative. Terrorist attack, full spot, now it's trying to shoehorning this as a ISIS attack, rather than trying to give an honest answer to its citizens and families of the victims.
Seriously, the media didn't even know the identity of the attacker or any proof, and it was already written. We used to mock Fox news and the like for this shit, and now we just take it for granted. Theres nothing wrong with assuming this was a terrorist attack giving the political climate in the world and previous attacks.
There were no assumptions. They were outright claims of it being a terrorist attack.
And yet we do not really know what happened yet. I don't know, maybe asking questions instead of jumping straight into the answer you desire might be more useful.
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On July 16 2016 01:53 Cowboy24 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2016 01:45 zlefin wrote:
cowboy -> the terrorists don't win throguh stuff like that; carrying on and living your lives means the terrorists lose. They have little actual power, only what they can inspire through fear. If you don't react to them, there's very little they can do beyond a relatively modest amount of damage. Those are the platitudes I'm talking about. Living my life doesn't defeat terrorists. Especially because we all change our habits based on terrorism. We have a harder time getting on planes, or into events. We have to be more careful when we're in a crowd. We are less willing to discuss certain topics and less willing to trust foreigners. And what have they lost? What political defeat has the radical Islamic suffered in the last decade? His numbers are growing, his support is growing, his friends are growing, and his enemies have capitulated. If they kill one of us, and we don't kill two of them, they win.
you win by not being more careful, because there's still very little actual risk. Don't change your habits, keep living your life as you did.
Of course the police/intel do some work to stop attacks, but you don't need to go overboard. Maintain your trust in foreigners, and discuss all the topics.
As for defeats, that depends on which groups you classify as "radical"
their overall power is certainly quite low.
also, for the record, for each one of us they kill, we probably kill around 5-10 of them, maybe more.
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EPT
