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Keep the discussion ON TOPIC. This thread is for discussing the terror attacks in Paris. |
On November 14 2015 08:51 _vk_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:46 m4ini wrote:
Hm.. Raid going for more than 15 minutes apparently now (if you judge by news source times) - how long does a raid like that take, generally? Honest question, never really checked up on that. Tens of minutes is typical IIRC. The raid on Osama, for example: Show nested quote +
The raid was intended to take 40 minutes. All told, the time between the team's entry in and exit from the compound was 38 minutes.[55] According to the Associated Press, the military offensive aspect of the raid was completed in the first 15 minutes.[73]
(WIkipedia.)
Hm, thanks. I would've thought it takes like 5 minutes maximum to prevent executions etc.
Guess that's me rainbow sieging.
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On November 14 2015 08:49 RouaF wrote:
Assault given, terrorists killed.
good riddance
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On November 14 2015 08:50 Cele wrote:
recent studies have shown that the influx of refugees in germany did not have any influx on criminality rate. So, i don't think there's a valid connection. Most likely (as in the past) the terrorists have a french passport. I think we, as european society, have to be careful not to bring xenophobia into the discsussion.
Gonna need source here or this post is meaningless.
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United States43617 Posts
On November 14 2015 08:47 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:45 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:43 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:40 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:36 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:34 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:31 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:27 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:22 Maluk wrote:On November 14 2015 08:16 KwarK wrote:
Is the difference between English and Nirish so much greater than that between French and Syrian?. What. My point was that people are people everywhere. That was essentially what I was getting at. That the only real difference between a Syrian infant and a French infant is geography. Infants aren't yet indoctrinated into barbaric, backwards, belief systems. And neither is every Syrian. Of course not, but you're being intellectually dishonest with your infant analogy as it pertains to the immigration issue overall. My original argument was with a Northern Irish person who was claiming that one group of people have no obligation to assist another group of people if the price is the risk of terrorism. I found this particularly striking given the history of the English enduring and fighting terrorism on behalf of the Northern Irish. When I explained this to him he went with "that's different though". My point with him was that the Syrians may be a different people but differences sure as hell didn't matter to him back when it was his homeland in danger and he needed the help of the English. He was happy enough to focus on what he had in common with the English and the English, for their part, did the right thing in standing up to the terrorism of the IRA. Now I'm no longer arguing directly with him we're a long way past relevance but my core point was that whenever you do the right thing people who disagree with it are going to be cunts. That doesn't make the right thing less worth doing. how can u compare the british defending its citizens on its soverign soil to europe letting in refugees? Quite easily. As I said, I feel no kinship with you just because we share a passport. Nor do I have any special relationship with the soil you stand on just because it's north of the border with the Republic of Ireland. Soil is soil. Blood is blood. And you saying that is a failure. You share more than soil with him, you share institution, history. Those people that did it didn't feel any kind of kinship with the people they killed too btw.
I'm not saying I feel no kinship with other humans, I'm saying that the kinship I have with other humans doesn't depend upon what colour their passport is.
I'm as far away from those terrorists as you can get. The terrorists are very much into the "kill everyone not like us" mindset. The people I'm arguing with in this topic are in the "fuck everyone not exactly like us, focus on us" mindset. I'm arguing for "most people are basically the same, kill those terrorist cunts, help the people who aren't".
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On November 14 2015 08:52 WhiteDog wrote:
The Bataclan can contain 1500 people, and apparently the terrorist attacked with grenades, it is a carnage.
I've seen 100 thrown around for the number of hostages.
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On November 14 2015 08:51 ref4 wrote:
so.....how easy is it to smuggle in so many weapons into France?
because you have something called the european union where you can pick up weapon in eastern europe, drive to france and do your terrorist attack
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On November 14 2015 08:51 Sent. wrote:
Btw, did they catch or kill all terrorists responsible for Charlie Hebdo attack?
Yeah, they were killed two days after the attack.
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On November 14 2015 08:51 ref4 wrote:
so.....how easy is it to smuggle in so many weapons into France?
Easy, there are millions of weapons in Europe right now and without border it's easy to move them around. Belgium is plagued with automatic weapons from bulgarian migration from the 90's.
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United States43617 Posts
On November 14 2015 08:51 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:45 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:43 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:40 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:36 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:34 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:31 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:27 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:22 Maluk wrote:On November 14 2015 08:16 KwarK wrote:
Is the difference between English and Nirish so much greater than that between French and Syrian?. What. My point was that people are people everywhere. That was essentially what I was getting at. That the only real difference between a Syrian infant and a French infant is geography. Infants aren't yet indoctrinated into barbaric, backwards, belief systems. And neither is every Syrian. Of course not, but you're being intellectually dishonest with your infant analogy as it pertains to the immigration issue overall. My original argument was with a Northern Irish person who was claiming that one group of people have no obligation to assist another group of people if the price is the risk of terrorism. I found this particularly striking given the history of the English enduring and fighting terrorism on behalf of the Northern Irish. When I explained this to him he went with "that's different though". My point with him was that the Syrians may be a different people but differences sure as hell didn't matter to him back when it was his homeland in danger and he needed the help of the English. He was happy enough to focus on what he had in common with the English and the English, for their part, did the right thing in standing up to the terrorism of the IRA. Now I'm no longer arguing directly with him we're a long way past relevance but my core point was that whenever you do the right thing people who disagree with it are going to be cunts. That doesn't make the right thing less worth doing. how can u compare the british defending its citizens on its soverign soil to europe letting in refugees? Quite easily. As I said, I feel no kinship with you just because we share a passport. Nor do I have any special relationship with the soil you stand on just because it's north of the border with the Republic of Ireland. Soil is soil. Blood is blood. I agree with this sentiment, and I am not 'patriotic', I don't think anyone should have an inherent right to live somewhere over someone else simply because they by pure chance, were born there. However, I can't turn a blind eye to destructive, sexist and complete disregard for modern society woven within archaic religious beliefs. I feel bad for the EU and Syrians, and I don't pretend to have an answer but Islamic beliefs are an issue, just as Christian bigotry has been an issue in the USA.
You'll find no defence of militant Islam from me.
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On November 14 2015 08:52 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:47 WhiteDog wrote:On November 14 2015 08:45 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:43 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:40 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:36 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:34 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:31 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:27 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:22 Maluk wrote:
[quote]
What. My point was that people are people everywhere. That was essentially what I was getting at. That the only real difference between a Syrian infant and a French infant is geography. Infants aren't yet indoctrinated into barbaric, backwards, belief systems. And neither is every Syrian. Of course not, but you're being intellectually dishonest with your infant analogy as it pertains to the immigration issue overall. My original argument was with a Northern Irish person who was claiming that one group of people have no obligation to assist another group of people if the price is the risk of terrorism. I found this particularly striking given the history of the English enduring and fighting terrorism on behalf of the Northern Irish. When I explained this to him he went with "that's different though". My point with him was that the Syrians may be a different people but differences sure as hell didn't matter to him back when it was his homeland in danger and he needed the help of the English. He was happy enough to focus on what he had in common with the English and the English, for their part, did the right thing in standing up to the terrorism of the IRA. Now I'm no longer arguing directly with him we're a long way past relevance but my core point was that whenever you do the right thing people who disagree with it are going to be cunts. That doesn't make the right thing less worth doing. how can u compare the british defending its citizens on its soverign soil to europe letting in refugees? Quite easily. As I said, I feel no kinship with you just because we share a passport. Nor do I have any special relationship with the soil you stand on just because it's north of the border with the Republic of Ireland. Soil is soil. Blood is blood. And you saying that is a failure. You share more than soil with him, you share institution, history. Those people that did it didn't feel any kind of kinship with the people they killed too btw. I'm not saying I feel no kinship with other humans, I'm saying that the kinship I have with other humans doesn't depend upon what colour their passport is. I'm as far away from those terrorists as you can get. The terrorists are very much into the "kill everyone not like us" mindset. The people I'm arguing with in this topic are in the "fuck everyone not exactly like us, focus on us" mindset. I'm arguing for "most people are basically the same, kill those terrorist cunts, help the people who aren't".
This mindset totally worked the past 40years. /s
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skynews showing where the police is
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On November 14 2015 08:52 politik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:50 Cele wrote:
recent studies have shown that the influx of refugees in germany did not have any influx on criminality rate. So, i don't think there's a valid connection. Most likely (as in the past) the terrorists have a french passport. I think we, as european society, have to be careful not to bring xenophobia into the discsussion. Gonna need source here or this post is meaningless.
Yeah, especially with the number of arsons from locals and other stuff, I'm pretty sure that raised the rate a little.
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Sky News:
Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful".
skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over.
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Yeah, it's incredibly naïve to assume terrorists are held back by weapon availability. I'm not saying they're easy to get, but these terrorists have the time...
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On November 14 2015 08:52 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:47 WhiteDog wrote:On November 14 2015 08:45 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:43 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:40 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:36 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:34 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:31 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:27 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:22 Maluk wrote:
[quote]
What. My point was that people are people everywhere. That was essentially what I was getting at. That the only real difference between a Syrian infant and a French infant is geography. Infants aren't yet indoctrinated into barbaric, backwards, belief systems. And neither is every Syrian. Of course not, but you're being intellectually dishonest with your infant analogy as it pertains to the immigration issue overall. My original argument was with a Northern Irish person who was claiming that one group of people have no obligation to assist another group of people if the price is the risk of terrorism. I found this particularly striking given the history of the English enduring and fighting terrorism on behalf of the Northern Irish. When I explained this to him he went with "that's different though". My point with him was that the Syrians may be a different people but differences sure as hell didn't matter to him back when it was his homeland in danger and he needed the help of the English. He was happy enough to focus on what he had in common with the English and the English, for their part, did the right thing in standing up to the terrorism of the IRA. Now I'm no longer arguing directly with him we're a long way past relevance but my core point was that whenever you do the right thing people who disagree with it are going to be cunts. That doesn't make the right thing less worth doing. how can u compare the british defending its citizens on its soverign soil to europe letting in refugees? Quite easily. As I said, I feel no kinship with you just because we share a passport. Nor do I have any special relationship with the soil you stand on just because it's north of the border with the Republic of Ireland. Soil is soil. Blood is blood. And you saying that is a failure. You share more than soil with him, you share institution, history. Those people that did it didn't feel any kind of kinship with the people they killed too btw. I'm not saying I feel no kinship with other humans, I'm saying that the kinship I have with other humans doesn't depend upon what colour their passport is. I'm as far away from those terrorists as you can get. The terrorists are very much into the "kill everyone not like us" mindset. The people I'm arguing with in this topic are in the "fuck everyone not exactly like us, focus on us" mindset. I'm arguing for "most people are basically the same, kill those terrorist cunts, help the people who aren't".
But your vision of "kinship" is based on nothing but a same condition - being men. Such kinship has no sociological ground, no body in real life, it's entirely philosophical. The relation you feel with your familly is not based on blood but on repeated interaction through out your life and emotional investment.
In a nation, in a city, institutions can create a body for such relation to grow. That you don't feel any kinship with people that share the same nationality means that you are not invested in those institutions or that they don't work. Let me give you an exemple : social security is an institution that create solidarity between people in a country. It create a tight relation, but most people forget the importance of such relation because of the bureacracy and the formal aspect that it takes.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". Raid is over.
if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people
damn right thats succesfull.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On November 14 2015 08:52 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:47 WhiteDog wrote:On November 14 2015 08:45 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:43 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:40 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:36 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:34 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:31 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:27 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:22 Maluk wrote:
[quote]
What. My point was that people are people everywhere. That was essentially what I was getting at. That the only real difference between a Syrian infant and a French infant is geography. Infants aren't yet indoctrinated into barbaric, backwards, belief systems. And neither is every Syrian. Of course not, but you're being intellectually dishonest with your infant analogy as it pertains to the immigration issue overall. My original argument was with a Northern Irish person who was claiming that one group of people have no obligation to assist another group of people if the price is the risk of terrorism. I found this particularly striking given the history of the English enduring and fighting terrorism on behalf of the Northern Irish. When I explained this to him he went with "that's different though". My point with him was that the Syrians may be a different people but differences sure as hell didn't matter to him back when it was his homeland in danger and he needed the help of the English. He was happy enough to focus on what he had in common with the English and the English, for their part, did the right thing in standing up to the terrorism of the IRA. Now I'm no longer arguing directly with him we're a long way past relevance but my core point was that whenever you do the right thing people who disagree with it are going to be cunts. That doesn't make the right thing less worth doing. how can u compare the british defending its citizens on its soverign soil to europe letting in refugees? Quite easily. As I said, I feel no kinship with you just because we share a passport. Nor do I have any special relationship with the soil you stand on just because it's north of the border with the Republic of Ireland. Soil is soil. Blood is blood. And you saying that is a failure. You share more than soil with him, you share institution, history. Those people that did it didn't feel any kind of kinship with the people they killed too btw. I'm not saying I feel no kinship with other humans, I'm saying that the kinship I have with other humans doesn't depend upon what colour their passport is. I'm as far away from those terrorists as you can get. The terrorists are very much into the "kill everyone not like us" mindset. The people I'm arguing with in this topic are in the "fuck everyone not exactly like us, focus on us" mindset. I'm arguing for "most people are basically the same, kill those terrorist cunts, help the people who aren't".
nope. it's "make sure we don't fuck ourselves trying to unfuck others"
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On November 14 2015 08:56 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over. if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people damn right thats succesfull.
Let's see how many civilians are dead before we call it successful, shall we?
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The Bataclan assault is over indeed but I'm very, very scared about how many people have been killed there. I wouldn't be surprised if it's over 100.
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But didnt they say there are 4 terrorists at that hotel?
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EPT
