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Keep the discussion ON TOPIC. This thread is for discussing the terror attacks in Paris. |
On November 14 2015 08:56 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:56 Kipsate wrote:On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over. if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people damn right thats succesfull. Let's see how many civilians are dead before we call it successful, shall we?
Less than before the Raid entered
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On November 14 2015 08:57 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:56 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 Kipsate wrote:On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over. if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people damn right thats succesfull. Let's see how many civilians are dead before we call it successful, shall we? Less than before the Raid entered
unfortunately we don't have the technology to un-kill people yet
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On November 14 2015 08:57 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:56 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 Kipsate wrote:On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over. if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people damn right thats succesfull. Let's see how many civilians are dead before we call it successful, shall we? Less than before the Raid entered
Do you mean "more than before"? Because otherwise i can't make sense of that sentence.
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On November 14 2015 08:57 Sent. wrote:
But didnt they say there are 4 terrorists at that hotel?
It's a concert hall and we don't exactly know how many they were, seems to be 3 or 4.
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Was visiting my 2 best friends in Paris this week.
They live and work two streets from where one of the shooting happened.
Can confirm it's really bad, my guess is the official number of deads will ramp up way highers in hours to come.
Shit..
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On November 14 2015 08:54 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:51 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:45 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:43 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:40 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:36 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:34 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:31 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:27 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:22 Maluk wrote:
[quote]
What. My point was that people are people everywhere. That was essentially what I was getting at. That the only real difference between a Syrian infant and a French infant is geography. Infants aren't yet indoctrinated into barbaric, backwards, belief systems. And neither is every Syrian. Of course not, but you're being intellectually dishonest with your infant analogy as it pertains to the immigration issue overall. My original argument was with a Northern Irish person who was claiming that one group of people have no obligation to assist another group of people if the price is the risk of terrorism. I found this particularly striking given the history of the English enduring and fighting terrorism on behalf of the Northern Irish. When I explained this to him he went with "that's different though". My point with him was that the Syrians may be a different people but differences sure as hell didn't matter to him back when it was his homeland in danger and he needed the help of the English. He was happy enough to focus on what he had in common with the English and the English, for their part, did the right thing in standing up to the terrorism of the IRA. Now I'm no longer arguing directly with him we're a long way past relevance but my core point was that whenever you do the right thing people who disagree with it are going to be cunts. That doesn't make the right thing less worth doing. how can u compare the british defending its citizens on its soverign soil to europe letting in refugees? Quite easily. As I said, I feel no kinship with you just because we share a passport. Nor do I have any special relationship with the soil you stand on just because it's north of the border with the Republic of Ireland. Soil is soil. Blood is blood. I agree with this sentiment, and I am not 'patriotic', I don't think anyone should have an inherent right to live somewhere over someone else simply because they by pure chance, were born there. However, I can't turn a blind eye to destructive, sexist and complete disregard for modern society woven within archaic religious beliefs. I feel bad for the EU and Syrians, and I don't pretend to have an answer but Islamic beliefs are an issue, just as Christian bigotry has been an issue in the USA. You'll find no defence of militant Islam from me.
That's part of the problem though, it's not just 'militant' Islam that is an issue. You cannot even criticize the beliefs or ideas presented in the religion (not speaking of people specifically). The political climate is too hostile. We can criticize Christians, Jews, Buddhist, whatever belief systems, and do quite frequently in the US (look at all the push back during the LGBT civil rights movement against the religious right) but the second you begin to critique Islam in the same way, you're a xenophobe, Islamaphobe, Nazi, etc. It's madness.
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United States43617 Posts
On November 14 2015 08:56 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:52 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:47 WhiteDog wrote:On November 14 2015 08:45 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:43 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:40 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:36 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:34 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:31 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:27 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
My point was that people are people everywhere. That was essentially what I was getting at. That the only real difference between a Syrian infant and a French infant is geography.
Infants aren't yet indoctrinated into barbaric, backwards, belief systems. And neither is every Syrian. Of course not, but you're being intellectually dishonest with your infant analogy as it pertains to the immigration issue overall. My original argument was with a Northern Irish person who was claiming that one group of people have no obligation to assist another group of people if the price is the risk of terrorism. I found this particularly striking given the history of the English enduring and fighting terrorism on behalf of the Northern Irish. When I explained this to him he went with "that's different though". My point with him was that the Syrians may be a different people but differences sure as hell didn't matter to him back when it was his homeland in danger and he needed the help of the English. He was happy enough to focus on what he had in common with the English and the English, for their part, did the right thing in standing up to the terrorism of the IRA. Now I'm no longer arguing directly with him we're a long way past relevance but my core point was that whenever you do the right thing people who disagree with it are going to be cunts. That doesn't make the right thing less worth doing. how can u compare the british defending its citizens on its soverign soil to europe letting in refugees? Quite easily. As I said, I feel no kinship with you just because we share a passport. Nor do I have any special relationship with the soil you stand on just because it's north of the border with the Republic of Ireland. Soil is soil. Blood is blood. And you saying that is a failure. You share more than soil with him, you share institution, history. Those people that did it didn't feel any kind of kinship with the people they killed too btw. I'm not saying I feel no kinship with other humans, I'm saying that the kinship I have with other humans doesn't depend upon what colour their passport is. I'm as far away from those terrorists as you can get. The terrorists are very much into the "kill everyone not like us" mindset. The people I'm arguing with in this topic are in the "fuck everyone not exactly like us, focus on us" mindset. I'm arguing for "most people are basically the same, kill those terrorist cunts, help the people who aren't". nope. it's "make sure we don't fuck ourselves trying to unfuck others"
"Unless the others are Northern Irish. Do whatever it takes to help the Northern Irish."
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Plusieurs fusillades ont eu lieu à Paris ce vendredi soir, qui ont fait au moins 42 morts. François Hollande a décrété l'état d'urgence national et annoncé la fermeture des frontières.
That's 42 death confirmed for the whole night. Thus far...
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I think he meant less killed in the actual raid than when the attacks started?
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On November 14 2015 08:58 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:57 FFW_Rude wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 Kipsate wrote:On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over. if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people damn right thats succesfull. Let's see how many civilians are dead before we call it successful, shall we? Less than before the Raid entered Do you mean "more than before"? Because otherwise i can't make sense of that sentence.
Probably means that some people who would've been dead if they hadn't raided it are now alive.
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On November 14 2015 08:58 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:57 FFW_Rude wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 Kipsate wrote:On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over. if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people damn right thats succesfull. Let's see how many civilians are dead before we call it successful, shall we? Less than before the Raid entered Do you mean "more than before"? Because otherwise i can't make sense of that sentence.
I guess he meant "less than if the Raid hadn't entered".
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On November 14 2015 08:58 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:58 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:57 FFW_Rude wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 Kipsate wrote:On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over. if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people damn right thats succesfull. Let's see how many civilians are dead before we call it successful, shall we? Less than before the Raid entered Do you mean "more than before"? Because otherwise i can't make sense of that sentence. Probably means that some people who would've been dead if they hadn't raided it are now alive.
Yeah
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On November 14 2015 08:57 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:56 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 Kipsate wrote:On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over. if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people damn right thats succesfull. Let's see how many civilians are dead before we call it successful, shall we? Less than before the Raid entered
GIGN only discharged their weapons 5 times before, right?
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On November 14 2015 08:56 Boucot wrote:
The Bataclan assault is over indeed but I'm very, very scared about how many people have been killed there. I wouldn't be surprised if it's over 100.
Sky saying one person found with explosives, the second had an AR on him. Not looking good.
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On November 14 2015 08:58 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:56 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:52 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:47 WhiteDog wrote:On November 14 2015 08:45 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:43 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:40 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:36 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:34 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:31 crms wrote:
[quote]
Infants aren't yet indoctrinated into barbaric, backwards, belief systems. And neither is every Syrian. Of course not, but you're being intellectually dishonest with your infant analogy as it pertains to the immigration issue overall. My original argument was with a Northern Irish person who was claiming that one group of people have no obligation to assist another group of people if the price is the risk of terrorism. I found this particularly striking given the history of the English enduring and fighting terrorism on behalf of the Northern Irish. When I explained this to him he went with "that's different though". My point with him was that the Syrians may be a different people but differences sure as hell didn't matter to him back when it was his homeland in danger and he needed the help of the English. He was happy enough to focus on what he had in common with the English and the English, for their part, did the right thing in standing up to the terrorism of the IRA. Now I'm no longer arguing directly with him we're a long way past relevance but my core point was that whenever you do the right thing people who disagree with it are going to be cunts. That doesn't make the right thing less worth doing. how can u compare the british defending its citizens on its soverign soil to europe letting in refugees? Quite easily. As I said, I feel no kinship with you just because we share a passport. Nor do I have any special relationship with the soil you stand on just because it's north of the border with the Republic of Ireland. Soil is soil. Blood is blood. And you saying that is a failure. You share more than soil with him, you share institution, history. Those people that did it didn't feel any kind of kinship with the people they killed too btw. I'm not saying I feel no kinship with other humans, I'm saying that the kinship I have with other humans doesn't depend upon what colour their passport is. I'm as far away from those terrorists as you can get. The terrorists are very much into the "kill everyone not like us" mindset. The people I'm arguing with in this topic are in the "fuck everyone not exactly like us, focus on us" mindset. I'm arguing for "most people are basically the same, kill those terrorist cunts, help the people who aren't". nope. it's "make sure we don't fuck ourselves trying to unfuck others" "Unless the others are Northern Irish. Do whatever it takes to help the Northern Irish."
Are you actually this dense?
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On November 14 2015 08:59 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:57 FFW_Rude wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 Kipsate wrote:On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over. if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people damn right thats succesfull. Let's see how many civilians are dead before we call it successful, shall we? Less than before the Raid entered GIGN only discharged their weapons 5 times before, right?
And they had to do it twice this year...
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France7248 Posts
On November 14 2015 08:56 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:56 Kipsate wrote:On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over. if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people damn right thats succesfull. Let's see how many civilians are dead before we call it successful, shall we?
it's successful in the way that only terrorists were killed during the raid (as far as we know) raid can't save people who were already dead when terrorists attacked
they say it's a massacre inside, so expect many more casualties
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United States43617 Posts
On November 14 2015 08:58 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:54 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:51 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:45 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:43 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:40 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:36 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:34 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:31 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:27 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
My point was that people are people everywhere. That was essentially what I was getting at. That the only real difference between a Syrian infant and a French infant is geography.
Infants aren't yet indoctrinated into barbaric, backwards, belief systems. And neither is every Syrian. Of course not, but you're being intellectually dishonest with your infant analogy as it pertains to the immigration issue overall. My original argument was with a Northern Irish person who was claiming that one group of people have no obligation to assist another group of people if the price is the risk of terrorism. I found this particularly striking given the history of the English enduring and fighting terrorism on behalf of the Northern Irish. When I explained this to him he went with "that's different though". My point with him was that the Syrians may be a different people but differences sure as hell didn't matter to him back when it was his homeland in danger and he needed the help of the English. He was happy enough to focus on what he had in common with the English and the English, for their part, did the right thing in standing up to the terrorism of the IRA. Now I'm no longer arguing directly with him we're a long way past relevance but my core point was that whenever you do the right thing people who disagree with it are going to be cunts. That doesn't make the right thing less worth doing. how can u compare the british defending its citizens on its soverign soil to europe letting in refugees? Quite easily. As I said, I feel no kinship with you just because we share a passport. Nor do I have any special relationship with the soil you stand on just because it's north of the border with the Republic of Ireland. Soil is soil. Blood is blood. I agree with this sentiment, and I am not 'patriotic', I don't think anyone should have an inherent right to live somewhere over someone else simply because they by pure chance, were born there. However, I can't turn a blind eye to destructive, sexist and complete disregard for modern society woven within archaic religious beliefs. I feel bad for the EU and Syrians, and I don't pretend to have an answer but Islamic beliefs are an issue, just as Christian bigotry has been an issue in the USA. You'll find no defence of militant Islam from me. That's part of the problem though, it's not just 'militant' Islam that is an issue. You cannot even criticize the beliefs or ideas presented in the religion (not speaking of people specifically). The political climate is too hostile. We can criticize Christians, Jews, Buddhist, whatever belief systems, and do quite frequently in the US (look at all the push back during the LGBT civil rights movement against the religious right) but the second you begin to critique Islam in the same way, you're a xenophobe, Islamaphobe, Nazi, etc. It's madness.
I think the reason people in the US criticize Christianity as much as they do is because there is an awful lot of Christianity and it's very influential. Moderate Christianity has far more impact on the day to day lives of Americans than moderate Islam. I think both are wrong, although I also don't care enough to go out of my way to let them know that.
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On November 14 2015 08:58 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:58 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:57 FFW_Rude wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 m4ini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:56 Kipsate wrote:On November 14 2015 08:55 m4ini wrote:Sky News: Two attackers killed in the raid, called it "successful". skynews showing where the police is
Raid is over. if u kill 2 terrorist and save a bunch of people damn right thats succesfull. Let's see how many civilians are dead before we call it successful, shall we? Less than before the Raid entered Do you mean "more than before"? Because otherwise i can't make sense of that sentence. Probably means that some people who would've been dead if they hadn't raided it are now alive.
That certainly is true, but not necessarily "success". What i initially meant anyway, is to emphasize the "successful" part of the news, because to me that indicates that it was not bloody. In terms of civilians.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On November 14 2015 08:58 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 08:56 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:52 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:47 WhiteDog wrote:On November 14 2015 08:45 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:43 ahswtini wrote:On November 14 2015 08:40 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:36 crms wrote:On November 14 2015 08:34 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2015 08:31 crms wrote:
[quote]
Infants aren't yet indoctrinated into barbaric, backwards, belief systems. And neither is every Syrian. Of course not, but you're being intellectually dishonest with your infant analogy as it pertains to the immigration issue overall. My original argument was with a Northern Irish person who was claiming that one group of people have no obligation to assist another group of people if the price is the risk of terrorism. I found this particularly striking given the history of the English enduring and fighting terrorism on behalf of the Northern Irish. When I explained this to him he went with "that's different though". My point with him was that the Syrians may be a different people but differences sure as hell didn't matter to him back when it was his homeland in danger and he needed the help of the English. He was happy enough to focus on what he had in common with the English and the English, for their part, did the right thing in standing up to the terrorism of the IRA. Now I'm no longer arguing directly with him we're a long way past relevance but my core point was that whenever you do the right thing people who disagree with it are going to be cunts. That doesn't make the right thing less worth doing. how can u compare the british defending its citizens on its soverign soil to europe letting in refugees? Quite easily. As I said, I feel no kinship with you just because we share a passport. Nor do I have any special relationship with the soil you stand on just because it's north of the border with the Republic of Ireland. Soil is soil. Blood is blood. And you saying that is a failure. You share more than soil with him, you share institution, history. Those people that did it didn't feel any kind of kinship with the people they killed too btw. I'm not saying I feel no kinship with other humans, I'm saying that the kinship I have with other humans doesn't depend upon what colour their passport is. I'm as far away from those terrorists as you can get. The terrorists are very much into the "kill everyone not like us" mindset. The people I'm arguing with in this topic are in the "fuck everyone not exactly like us, focus on us" mindset. I'm arguing for "most people are basically the same, kill those terrorist cunts, help the people who aren't". nope. it's "make sure we don't fuck ourselves trying to unfuck others" "Unless the others are Northern Irish. Do whatever it takes to help the Northern Irish."
except the northern irish aren't "others", the northern irish are us. what part of this is so hard to comprehend? you're saying the british government protecting its own people was an act of generosity and kindness????
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EPT
