EPTCanadian Politics Mega-thread - Page 87
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14113 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On February 15 2022 09:41 JimmiC wrote: I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding me or me you. I do not support the protests at all, 80% of the nation does not support them at all. One of the political parties has some members who do and some who have swapped and they have been losing support from both ends. i do not think it is a simple yes/no answer. https://globalnews.ca/news/8610727/ipsos-poll-trucker-convoy-support-ottawa-canada/ like most Canadians in the 18 to 34 age bracket i sympathize with the truckers. i'm in the majority on that. its not a slim minority. But Bricker said it’s less about partisanship and more about generation and social class. Those aged 18 to 34 who sympathize with the truck convoy protesters are at 61 per cent, while those aged 35 to 54 are 44 per cent and those 55 and older are much less likely to agree, and are at 37 per cent. as stated in the linked article... it is more about age/class than it is about political affiliation. On February 15 2022 09:20 Sermokala wrote: Protests like these that grip the nations day to day so completely are something you either have to be all in or all out. Waffling from supporting it, to not supporting it, to trying to then support it again as the mandates come off (as they were timed to and planned to) is something people will not credit you for in any way. these protests do not "grip the nation". in Toronto and most of southern ontario the protests have been a nothing burger. southern ontario is the most populous region of Canada. In Canada's 2nd most populous province, Quebec, the Premier declared invoking the emergency measures act unnecessary. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/francois-legault-quebec-emergency-measures-act-1.6351270 It ain't that big a deal man. Justin Trudeau should have either negotiated directly with the truckers or crushed the rebels as his father did in the October Crisis of 1970. Doing neither let the situation fester on and on. Justin Trudeau fucked this one into the ground. This is how its done boys... this is how you lead a country. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14113 Posts
No idea why people would sympathize with truckers complaining about something 90% of the country apparently didn't have an issue with. Even more bizarre that they've waited until the end of the pandemic to start having a real problem with it. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On February 15 2022 13:56 Sermokala wrote: No idea why people would sympathize with truckers complaining about something 90% of the country apparently didn't have an issue with. where are you getting this 90%? the people I know who live in southern ontario endure wearing masks everywhere, showing ID every where they go, and drastically lowered indoor capacities. Does this look like fun? preview.redd.it Meanwhile in upstate New York masks are optional, no one shows ID, and indoor events run at full capacity. Is Covid spreading much faster in upstate New York than it is in southern Ontario due to the drastic differences in restrictions? no it is not. Anyhow, as a result of these facts most people I know in southern ontario sympathize with the truckers are sick and tired of masks, lowered indoor capacities, and showing ID. On February 15 2022 13:56 Sermokala wrote: I'm pretty sure that a semi-violent occupation of the capital would be something that most people are talking about. what? you mean Ottawa? LOL. c'mon dawg don't be so dramatic. And a 5 minute drive north of Ottawa... Gatineau Quebec wants no part of these emergency measures Trudeau enacted. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14113 Posts
On February 15 2022 14:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote: where are you getting this 90%? the people I know who live in southern ontario endure wearing masks everywhere, showing ID every where they go, and drastically lowered indoor capacities. Meanwhile in upstate New York masks are optional, no one shows ID, and indoor events run at full capacity. Is Covid spreading much faster in upstate New York than it is in southern Ontario due to the drastic differences in restrictions? no it is not. Anyhow, as a result of these facts most people I know in southern ontario sympathize with the truckers are sick and tired of masks, lowered indoor capacities, and showing ID. what? you mean Ottawa? LOL. c'mon dawg don't be so dramatic. And a 5 minute drive north of Ottawa... Gatinuea Quebec wants no part of these emergency measures. I had seen a 90% vaccination rate for Canada being put around a lot, considering that's the main focus for the truckers trying to block the transition points into the united states that they aren't allowed to just come back without a vaccine or quarantining. . I would think that the majority of Canadians could do math and could see the differences in the death rate between Canada and the united states. The billion dollars a day of lost business and the factories that have to be shut down now due to the inability to get enough parts over the border would seem to be bothering as many people north of the border as I'm seeing from the people south of the border that I know of. People seem to be clowning a lot on the Canadians for not having control over their capitol and how this doesn't make an 6 look that bad. No one can be dumb enough to seriously think that a national leader would negotiate with terrorists but its pretty bad when you won't roll out the military for the white people when you are so eager to do it for minorities doing the same thing. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On February 15 2022 14:13 Sermokala wrote: I had seen a 90% vaccination rate for Canada Most of the people I know who are vaccinated are sympathetic with the truckers original protest message. We are tired of constantly wearing masks... tired of showing ID every where and tired of public venue limitations. This is in line with the poll that states 61% of Canadians aged 18-34 sympathize with the truckers. I live in Cheektowaga New York and spend about 25% of my time in Toronto. Its so much easier in upstate New York man. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14113 Posts
More people have died in new york than Canada. You should tell your friends that. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On February 15 2022 14:22 Sermokala wrote: Their original protest message was that they were against the vaccine mandate that was forcing them to not be able to cross the border and wanted the "personal freedom" to not have to get vaccinated. They thought that they were going to confront their nations legitimately elected leader and force him to resign or drop the mandate. More people have died in new york than Canada. You should tell your friends that. My friends know that New York state is far more densely populated than Canada. This is a communicable disease we're talking about here. In a densely populated area the disease spreads more than in a sparsely populated area. It is more appropriate to compare southern Ontario to upstate New York than it is to compare all of Canada to all of New York state. Again though, my personal observations match the poll. So I'm not sure there is much to discuss. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On February 15 2022 16:14 JimmiC wrote: Your poll does not show support for it but rather. Here is the exact line in the article to which i am referring. This sympathy has risen to 61 per cent particularly among Canadians aged 18 to 34, according to the poll. On February 15 2022 16:14 JimmiC wrote: I mean what a softball question. That support is so low is crazy. Why does a poll question have to be an extreme binary? I think its a great question. I want the trucker blockade to end. However, I sympathize with their plight. Like most Canadians 18 to 34. Truckers are part of the working poor in Canada who are getting absolutely fucking crushed by this pandemic. Also, the job is dangerous. 10,000 Canadians are injured in accidents involving heavy trucks each year. | ||
Falling
Canada11509 Posts
It's not the unvaxxed that are stopping it. It's the unreasonable expectation that we would get 100% compliance. 75% adults used to be the bench mark; and we blew threw that last June. The goal post was moved, but without giving a new one. Prior to the protests, there was zero hope given for ending any of these mandates- no benchmarks and no phases. Just something that might happen in the indefinite future and with ever increasing governmental control on the horizon. (The latest of which, I would LOVE to see backed by Follow the Science. If truckers, a solitary occupation by nature, must be mandated, logically almost every job imaginable except trappers and arctic guides ought to be mandated. So what? A forcible ban on all employment until compliance? Imprisonment? The final percentage of unvaxxed is especially untractable.) Other countries are backing off. We have +90% of our population double vaxxed and a version of the virus that gives you a fever for a day and a runny nose and a cough for five. Time to move on. (And for what it's worth, yes, I am triple vaxxed.) | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On February 15 2022 16:43 Falling wrote: (The latest of which, I would LOVE to see backed by Follow the Science. If truckers, a solitary occupation by nature, must be mandated, logically almost every job imaginable except trappers and arctic guides ought to be mandated. So what? A forcible ban on all employment until compliance? Imprisonment? The final percentage of unvaxxed is especially untractable.) what about hermit coders? there are a lot of them.  On February 15 2022 16:43 Falling wrote: Other countries are backing off. We have +90% of our population double vaxxed and a version of the virus that gives you a fever for a day and a runny nose and a cough for five. Time to move on. The differences in regulations between Canada and the USA illustrates why it is good to be eligible to work in multiple countries. Mega-corps pick the country that gives them to best advantages... people should do the exact same thing. I view Canada and the USA more as "economic zones" than countries in the traditional sense. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13407 Posts
These people are a blight in our city. This isn't about vaccine mandates. I'm sorry. Maybe the smokescreen worked, maybe the initial people.hopping.on.the convoy thought it was, but the organizers aren't here for mandates. They're here for anti government purposes. Pat King is a key on the ground organizer who is an open neo nazi. Tamara Lich grifted 750k from yellow vest protest GoFundMe and the federal government had to ail people out to send them home 2 years ago. Our election was not even a year ago and it's all Fuck Trudeau this Fuck Trudeau that. That's the strongest unitary message provided by all the various groups involved in the downtown core. On weekends its a rave Friday and Saturday. Every province has had restriction removal plans focused on March/April to remove them. Federal mandates are predominantly in coordination with international partners. The trucker one is reciprocal to the US and has been on the books for months before enforcement. They can't get into the US without a vaccine so how would a Canadian requirement matter? Some private companies made it a requirement months ago too. And on Ottawa's "peaceful protest" People literally pissing and shitting in the sidewalk, sometimes in a coordinated fashion to block sidewalk access at the edges of the so called red zone. Harassing residential areas. Parking and honking all day outside an elementary school. Driving to and harassing multiple schools last week in a coordinated way. Breaking windows of businesses with pride flags up. Spitting on and threatening people wearing masks in the area. Non.stop lack of respect. I'm having serious tech issues with my work equipment and I can't exchange it because I work on a building in the red zone. Just metres away from the occupied and "protected" by the convoyers cenotaph and war memorial. I have friends who haven't been able to work for 3 weeks. I have family who are in school at uO that can't go to class and know kids in residence who can't afford food because their jobs are shut down due to these people. Don't even get me started on how blockading the ambassador bridge was all sorts of not a protest. Slowing traffic for 24 hours to make a point is a protest. Standing on the side of the road with signs is a protest. Causing manufacturers to shut down on both sides of the border because of supply issues (that truckers claim mandates create, ironically) isn't a protest. Imagine being so mad about vaccine requirements that impact mostly American truckers that you block a Canadian border and hasten the "buy American" domestic supply chain conversation. It's the dumbest self own ever that has lasting impacts on Canadian economic futures that were entirely avoidable, and will be blamed on a government that didn't do anything to create. Especially given that in Canada our federal government can't enforce provincial jurisdiction in most scenarios and the time lag on dealing with it was entirely the premiers fault. So yeah, sorry if I have zero sympathy for any of these people at this point. I am sympathetic to the underlying concerns and causes as far as lack of employment, social isolation, rising cost of living. All of that. Always have been always will be. But this isn't about that based on the organizers ties and clear public statements. And it's certainly not about anything meaningful when people are setting up LCD concert screen venues and hosting public drinking night clubs on Wellington Street at the same time that resident's of nearby buildings have their carbon monoxide detectors going off because of all the exhaust in the area. Not at all. And not when fireworks are going off on streets with 2 lanes of traffic and a parking lane. And not when people are smoking and doing fire breathing shows 5 meters from Jerry cans and propane tanks either. Zero sympathy for these people. None. Not one iota. Not anymore. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On February 15 2022 23:09 JimmiC wrote: Basically no Truckers lost their job, we have a shortage of truckers. Truckers who are vaccinated are making more then they have in the past as they are getting paid more (and 90% of them are) and those that have not have been busy with all Canadian routes. its not hard to make more money when truckers are as poorly paid as they are. Canada has a shortage of truckers because the pay is garbage and the job is dangerous. On February 16 2022 00:09 ZeromuS wrote: I'm having serious tech issues with my work equipment and I can't exchange it because I work on a building in the red zone. Just metres away from the occupied and "protected" by the convoyers cenotaph and war memorial. I have friends who haven't been able to work for 3 weeks. I have family who are in school at uO that can't go to class and know kids in residence who can't afford food because their jobs are shut down due to these people. thanks for the insights. On February 16 2022 00:09 ZeromuS wrote: It's the dumbest self own ever that has lasting impacts on Canadian economic futures that were entirely avoidable, and will be blamed on a government that didn't do anything to create. I don't think it will have long term impact. Trudeau fucked up by neither negotiating nor crushing the protests. He fiddled while Rome burned. According to the poll JimmiC posted 44% of Canadians believe Trudeau's actions inflammed the situation. 38% thought that was not the case and 18% were not sure. So my opinion is pretty much in line with most Canadians. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On February 15 2022 23:09 JimmiC wrote: But more for the healthcare workers and frontline hourly workers. What is the plight? And wtf do you mean absolutely crushed by the pandemic? Trucking companies have killed it in the pandemic. From hauling all wildly expensive wood, from the increased price in oil driving up that market, to all the goods people have bought. What are you talking about? Its such a great job they can't get people to do it. Healthcare workers were getting crushed long before the pandemic started. https://rnao.ca/policy/submissions/violence-faced-healthcare-workers Here was a big inflection point for nurses in 2016 https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/a-great-mistake-to-leave-out-nurses-expert Finally, laws have been strengthened against these assaults. https://www.ona.org/news-posts/ona-protections-strengthened/ Let's see if this makes a difference on the front lines. Hopefully, it does. Based on the info I'm getting from my relatives working in Ontario Hospitals ... I predict nothing changes and highly skilled health care workers continue to move to the USA. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-canadian-nurses-are-leaving-in-droves-worn-down-by-16-merciless-months/ | ||
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