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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On January 15 2020 08:29 gotchaman wrote:Will it be legal for Harry and Meghan to have armed security in Canada? https://globalnews.ca/news/1765700/some-security-guards-can-carry-guns-but-can-be-charged-for-shooting/Some security guards in Canada are allowed to carry and use guns, but only if they are guarding cash or precious metals. They also have to apply for a Possession and Acquisition License and work with a security firm approved by the Ontario government. “It’s most common in jewellery stores. Bodyguards are not allowed to carry guns in Canada. It has to be a precious metal or a cash value,” security expert Chris Menary said in an interview.
I don't know Canadian gun laws but that sounds like if they wear expensive jewelry or carry a bag of money they can have armed guards to protect the money and jewels, just not them as a person?
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Canada8989 Posts
On January 15 2020 23:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 08:29 gotchaman wrote:Will it be legal for Harry and Meghan to have armed security in Canada? https://globalnews.ca/news/1765700/some-security-guards-can-carry-guns-but-can-be-charged-for-shooting/Some security guards in Canada are allowed to carry and use guns, but only if they are guarding cash or precious metals. They also have to apply for a Possession and Acquisition License and work with a security firm approved by the Ontario government. “It’s most common in jewellery stores. Bodyguards are not allowed to carry guns in Canada. It has to be a precious metal or a cash value,” security expert Chris Menary said in an interview. I don't know Canadian gun laws but that sounds like if they wear expensive jewelry or carry a bag of money they can have armed guards to protect the money and jewels, just not them as a person?
I think it's more about the guard in the jewelry or who drive the armoured truck with money in it.
Altought you could make the argument royal family member are pretty much human size jewels
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Yeah, it's for specific types of guards, who can only do their shifts doing specifically those tasks. Bodyguard is a specific type of security guard if I'm remembering correctly.
And they should absolutely pay for their own protection. They are commonwealth citizens like any other, at least until they ascend to the throne.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Agreed with the consensus here. They are free to come and live here, but they should pay for their own protection. That money could be put for good use over here.
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Do you guys have a contractual/treaty obligation to pay or did they just request you guys do it out of the kindness of your hearts/deference to your royals?
The whole royalty thing seems ridiculous in the first place to me but if it's a "we pay for security for the royal family" seems it's not really a choice that's up to Canadians.
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For those stating that a work around is to wear expensive jewelry, the optics are terrible, with the implication that above a certain net worth, people can to legally have armed bodyguards. Assuming this situation is true, what value of jewelry does one need to carry to have legal armed security?
Another work around would be to use a security firm where it is an open secret that the guards are armed, just not actively advertised, so the guard would take the rap.
Warren Buffet has armed security follow him in the United States. What happens when he goes to Canada? Google searching is not providing an answer.
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Some interesting news since Trudeaus donutgate
TORONTO -- About 200 people stopped traffic at Rainbow International Bridge in Niagara Falls, Ont. on Sunday afternoon in protest of what they call an “invasion of the Wet’suwet’en Nation” due to the proposed pipeline in British Columbia.
The demonstration started around 2 p.m. near Highway 420 and Stanley Avenue, at which point the protesters marched towards the entrance to the bridge, effectively blocking traffic from travelling into the United States.
Protesters held signs that said “what about the next generation,” “reconciliation is dead” and “stand with Wet’suwet’en.”
“This is about asserting Indigenous rights, asserting Indigenous sovereignty, to remind the government that they have a legal responsibility to us,” Sean Vanderklis said. “They can’t trample over our rights. They can’t come in and impose these injunctions without proper consultation.”
Vanderklis said that they chose to block the U.S.-Canada border crossing because the government has blocked access to their borders.
“We are asserting that we are sovereign and that we are capable of doing what they are capable of doing. If they are preventing people from coming in, we are going to prevent people from coming in.”
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/anti-pipeline-protesters-block-international-bridge-in-niagara-falls-in-support-of-wet-suwet-en-1.4814447
Interesting to see if the people who support hereditary chiefs also support the royal family and the monarchy
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Canada11385 Posts
That... makes a lot of sense.
A bit of red washing, I think.
All elected councils, representing a majority of impacted indigenous favour the pipelines, having negotiated both for environmental concerns and financial incentives, which I think is wonderful. Even a majority of the hereditary chiefs are at least not opposed- only 5/13 are opposed, and that's after stripping two hereditary chiefs of their titles because they were pro-pipelines.
But it's easier to try and hide behind the few indigenous holdouts in order to advance your actual causes.
We have been told again and again that the indigenous are diverse people that cannot all be lumped in together, but somehow 5 represents the whole. Mind you the Mohawks are doing whatever, but it doesn't seem like that great of a negotiating position when the RCMP have already cleared the area... and it's in another province... and it's a different police force.
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Interesting times!
I think Trudeau is employing the proper approach in order to facilitate the possibility of a long term solution. One requires genuine, honest buy-in from all parties. You don't get that by crushing people. By crushing people you get a quick short term fix and a group of long term disgruntled people. "Just Watch Me" provided some great drama and a very quick fix. Did it result in a long term solution? nah. did it result in some long term disgruntled people? yes it did.
The economy in Ontario isn't being crippled as badly as some grandstanders might have you believe. One of my customers with the oldest, most ancient tracking database known to humanity is a small trucking company in Markham, Ontario. He has friends who run small trucking companies in other parts of Ontario. He claims these guys are all making an absolute killing right now. I think he is right. So some stuff is getting transported across the province. Various Grandstanders making it sound like Ontario is turning into "Fallout North" ... are exaggerating to forward whatever their own BS agenda is.
So far I've made a cool $400 on his tracking system based on the 1994 Foxpro for DOS. LOL.  That's enough for 1 Raptors regular season ticket in the lower bowl! LOL.
One of this guy's firends owns a small trucking company around Kingston and they will probably want to start using my tracking system due to the high volume of new customers he has. So all in all.. I might end up making about $5,000. I might be able to go to 2 Raptors playoff games in the lower bowl this spring!
Some big orgs are approaching these small trucking companies to create permanent relationships for ad hoc deliveries in emergencies. Their trust in rail is lower than 100%. It is a lot higher than 0% though. They just want alternatives and are willing to pay for a flexibility that creates closer to 100% on scheduled deliveries.
TL;DR ; in Ontario the situation is not as extreme as certain people with specific agendas would have you believe. Trudeau has some wiggle room. I know Trudeau's speaking style is growing increasingly annoying to some Ontarians. However, i say ... Let the guy play out his hand.... who cares if his speeches make some people feel annoyed. Long term results are more important than "feelings"
If Trudeau somehow fucks this into the ground ... crucify him at that point. Until then, I recommend citizens stand behind the PM of Canada and give his process a chance. If Trudeau succeeds we all benefit in the long term.
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Canada11385 Posts
That's nice and all- but if the pipes aren't put in or it's bogged down forever because of a very vocal, very small minority, I don't think that's a win. We already got buy-in. Just not from the few hold outs. I don't think you will get 100% consensus on any project, and you certainly won't get agreement from people that want to end capitalism, nor those that would never agree to any pipe ever. 'Consensus' in that case is simply capitulation to their view and the rest of the impacted parties be damned, indigenous or not.
One of the solutions was simply laughable. Not in our traditional territories... but what about theirs? You can put it in their traditional territory though there are no agreements, the loopty loop would add another $800M or more and is environmentally not as good. Classic NIMBY, from the vocal minority.
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TLADT24920 Posts
I tend to agree with Falling on this one. I ain't cutting Trudeau slack on this one, not a tiny bit. The fact that a very small vocal minority is holding up a project where the majority support it is ridiculous to me and much like Falling mentioned, you won't ever get 100% buy-in as is. I remember reading one of the chiefs or whoever it was talking about the pipeline and how it would benefit his community greatly. How the money can be used to help them with their quality of life and they would require less help from Ottawa on top of the fact that in his 20? years in his office, not a single person has complained about these recent complaints. It's always been about trying to find a way to live etc...
While I don't believe force is the answer either, you can have peaceful demonstrations to support the chiefs without disrupting rail service and causing people to lose their jobs temporarily.
On February 19 2020 12:54 Falling wrote:
One of the solutions was simply laughable. Not in our traditional territories... but what about theirs? You can put it in their traditional territory though there are no agreements, the loopty loop would add another $800M or more and is environmentally not as good. Classic NIMBY, from the vocal minority.
I can't remember the full explanation, but the company stated that they spent something like 100,000 hours working on this along with doing consultations, and that the new route they proposed would cost an additional 600-800 million, but it's also not feasible for a lot of different reasons (environmental etc...).
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On February 19 2020 14:19 BigFan wrote:
I tend to agree with Falling ...
both of you guys make some good points
On February 19 2020 14:19 BigFan wrote:
While I don't believe force is the answer either, you can have peaceful demonstrations to support the chiefs without disrupting rail service and causing people to lose their jobs temporarily.
force is the key here. Until these blockades have a big impact on the lives of a large # of Canadians Trudeau won't use force. Once it starts to have a big impact the current negotiation process will be ongoing, This is when the anarchist faction expose themselves as just anarchists. At this point Trudeau will have the political currency necessary to smash the protests hard. Until that point Trudeau will hold his cards close to his chest. During the negotiation process Trudeau will be able to sway a decent % of the most reasonable protesters. He'll also be able to expose the idiots.
As the protests continue the protesters will have trouble maintaining the energy and collective willpower to continue the protests.
I think this is Trudeau's strategy.
All the results of Trudeau's maneuvers won't be in for 5 or 10 years. Angry people will scream for instant results and claim what happens in the next month determines whether it was a win or loss. I say we overlook the short term emotional people and only try to view this through a long term lense. This is not easy advice to follow. Although I think this is the right approach... it is also the most difficult method to execute.
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Canada11385 Posts
Well if Ontario wants to shut down for awhile that's fine by me- you can get those tickets if you want. Just so long as we can go ahead. I was just listening to an elected council member who was saying they've been in consultation since 2004- there's agreements in place from previous governments. They've seen a lot of talk, now it's time for action. I tend to agree.
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Canada5565 Posts
"Via Rail says it will issue temporary layoff notices to 1,000 employees as the suspension of most passenger rail services continues amid protests that have halted train traffic in much of Canada.
“This general interruption is an unprecedented situation in our history. In 42 years of existence, it is the first time that VIA Rail, a public intercity passenger rail service, has to interrupt most of its services across the country,” said Cynthia Garneau, Via’s chief executive officer.
The 1,000 Via layoffs include union members of Teamsters Canada Rail Conference, Unifor and other labour groups, said Christopher Monette, a spokesman for the Teamsters union, which represents train engineers, conductors and other employees at CN and Via. “It’s bad,” he said. “We have a lot of members in our rail sector who are hurting right now.”
The Globe and Mail
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I'd say a relatively mild winter in Ontario contributed to the veracity of the Ontario protesters. Over the last 20 years or so I've seen -25C take the starch out of many a protest group that contains Greater Toroto Area left wingers.
-25C isn't really that bad for most Canadians, but keep in mind that Toronto Mayor Mel Lastman had the Canadian military called in during a big snow fall. LOL.
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Canada11385 Posts
You are fortunate then. There's really no reason to shut down protests on the account of weather over here. Unless you don't like getting rained on.
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On February 20 2020 11:49 Falling wrote:
Well if Ontario wants to shut down for awhile that's fine by me- you can get those tickets if you want. Just so long as we can go ahead. I was just listening to an elected council member who was saying they've been in consultation since 2004- there's agreements in place from previous governments. They've seen a lot of talk, now it's time for action. I tend to agree.
Turns out Ontario was never "shut down".
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cp-cn-arrangement-blockade-1.5474684
Quiet talks brokered by a government desperate to stop a growing economic threat led to two rail rivals coming together with a workaround to bypass the Tyendinaga blockade site.
Turns out stuff was getting shipped via secret co operation agreements. The trips are partially by rail and partially by truck employing new and different routes with different loading spots. This explains why this tiny trucking company needed a bunch of new features for the ancient Foxpro For DOS tracking system under a very strict deadline.
What a laugh. for the first time in 5 years this trucking company had an urgent deadline for new features to be implemented in their tracking software. I never get urgent deadlines from this tiny company because they can't afford it. Now it all makes sense.
Tiny and nimble trucking companies that can turn their operations on a dime made a killing; the customer I have is trying to sign larger deals to be part of a constantly nimble easily modifiable route system. The goal is to be part of a solution that can bypass future blockades quickly and easily.
twitter.com
twitter.com
I have almost zero in agreement with Jesse Brown from a political perspective. However, he a responsible journalist who does not lie. He may spin things a certain way .. but he doesn't make up BS. In retrospect, this is some good work by Jesse Brown. For those interested in going down the rabbit hole I suggest checking out Jesse Brown's work.
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EPT
