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On March 11 2015 04:18 Pursuit_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 03:27 Glowsphere wrote:
Is there such a thing as a fetish for protecting victimized women? I don't mean actually stepping in and helping somebody, but making elaborate fantasies, where the object of your desire is made into a perfect victim, and you her protector. Ironically it fits the damsel in distress trope, which is now being reframed to be itself a victimizer of women. I ask this question because it's a tendency I've noted sometimes in my own thoughts. And I wonder, if it exists, if it isn't partly behind the tireless energy of the "you don't understand how hard it is to be a woman" crowd. I don't think it's necessarily women who men want to protect, the same idea can be (and has been) done with a brother (especially a younger brother), a close friend or confidant, a mentor figure, ect. In fact, since we were talking about it earlier, Shadows of Mordor has a pretty good example in Ratbag. Your character always seems to be running around rescuing him. I'm not really sure why female damsels are so much more prominent. The only reason I can really think of is that it's more relatable to your average male. Pretty much every guy I know has at least one if not multiple female's in their lives they would go to great lengths to protect. I think if you did a survey of 'would you take a bullet for a random stranger', I'm pretty sure more men would be likely to say yes if that stranger was implied to be female. It might also simply be because we have so many more male protagonists. In a game where you have a main male and female lead but actually control the male lead, when you want an emotional impact it's by far easiest to use one of the leading characters. And since you're controlling the male... Either way, I'd like to see this played around with, but I don't think it's such a bad trope as everyone makes it out to be. I think I'll always enjoy this trope when it's done well. Most of my favorite movies or games involve rescuing someone else, usually female. As for a 'fetish', I don't know, but I'm sure there is some kind of mental desire in most men. I used to use this fantasy in my own head when bored at school. "That girl over there holds some secret data and is about to be attacked by 20 ninja. Here's where the first attack happens, and here's how I act to save her". It never actually had any sexual connotations though, oftentimes I was just randomly picking some classmate. I think it's just an ingrained part of me (and perhaps most males?), wanting to protect others. Did this with male classmates on occassion too, but usually female. Wasn't because I thought the girl was incompetent or anything.
It can definitely have sexual connotations if the fetish-holder wants it to. I think that this mentality definitely motivates some, but not all, "white knights" as people call them. Some people just want others to be treated better. Others operate under the deep-seeded notion that if they save the damsel they get to live happily ever after with her, or at least have a shot. As long as they handle reality well enough when it doesn't work out that way, in the end all they did was try to keep people from being jerks.
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On March 11 2015 03:27 Glowsphere wrote:
Is there such a thing as a fetish for protecting victimized women? I don't mean actually stepping in and helping somebody, but making elaborate fantasies, where the object of your desire is made into a perfect victim, and you her protector. Ironically it fits the damsel in distress trope, which is now being reframed to be itself a victimizer of women. I ask this question because it's a tendency I've noted sometimes in my own thoughts. And I wonder, if it exists, if it isn't partly behind the tireless energy of the "you don't understand how hard it is to be a woman" crowd.
lol no, but I have heard white knight, Sharia Law, and Tumblr SJW all said in the same sentence which leads me to wonder if people get hot and sweaty thinking about other oppressed women that is not of the same culture as them. Maybe it has something to do with guilt of being called out by your own women.
But in all seriousness, when has the attempt to be a good human being turned into weird pseudo-Freudian speculations like that?
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On March 11 2015 04:45 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 03:27 Glowsphere wrote:
Is there such a thing as a fetish for protecting victimized women? I don't mean actually stepping in and helping somebody, but making elaborate fantasies, where the object of your desire is made into a perfect victim, and you her protector. Ironically it fits the damsel in distress trope, which is now being reframed to be itself a victimizer of women. I ask this question because it's a tendency I've noted sometimes in my own thoughts. And I wonder, if it exists, if it isn't partly behind the tireless energy of the "you don't understand how hard it is to be a woman" crowd. lol no, but I have heard white knight, Sharia Law, and Tumblr SJW all said in the same sentence which leads me to wonder if people get hot and sweaty thinking about other oppressed women that is not of the same culture as them. Maybe it has something to do with guilt of being called out by your own women. But in all seriousness, when has the attempt to be a good human being turned into weird pseudo-Freudian speculations like that?
The idea that every single person standing up for women is just doing so to sleep with them is just silly. It also feeds into that idea that women are not people, but obstacles to be overcome on the way to sleeping with them. By sticking up for them, you will trick them into liking you. Its so fucking stupid.
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Northern Ireland26667 Posts
On March 11 2015 04:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 04:45 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2015 03:27 Glowsphere wrote:
Is there such a thing as a fetish for protecting victimized women? I don't mean actually stepping in and helping somebody, but making elaborate fantasies, where the object of your desire is made into a perfect victim, and you her protector. Ironically it fits the damsel in distress trope, which is now being reframed to be itself a victimizer of women. I ask this question because it's a tendency I've noted sometimes in my own thoughts. And I wonder, if it exists, if it isn't partly behind the tireless energy of the "you don't understand how hard it is to be a woman" crowd. lol no, but I have heard white knight, Sharia Law, and Tumblr SJW all said in the same sentence which leads me to wonder if people get hot and sweaty thinking about other oppressed women that is not of the same culture as them. Maybe it has something to do with guilt of being called out by your own women. But in all seriousness, when has the attempt to be a good human being turned into weird pseudo-Freudian speculations like that? The idea that every single person standing up for women is just doing so to sleep with them is just silly. It also feeds into that idea that women are not people, but obstacles to be overcome on the way to sleeping with them. By sticking up for them, you will trick them into liking you. Its so fucking stupid.
Some are, it's sometimes painfully apparent. That said I like to think that women are fellow rational people with the capacity to differentiate such behaviour from genuine people who stand against what they see as improper behaviour.
@Ovid, yeah it's fucking silly at times. Especially given an article I read a few months ago with damning figures showing that many men were literally giving up their visitation battles due to slashes to legal aid and the prohibitive costs of fighting such cases without that safety net.
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And now the MRAs are here to derail the discussion with the Olympic Oppression Games and trying to blame problems caused by the feminist world order.
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Northern Ireland26667 Posts
I think his point is more trivial bullshit and things like Twitter abuse are getting more media traction than legitimate issues, regardless of who they affect.
We don't have a media in this country who report particularly well on what I see as ACTUAL issues like sex trafficking, wage disparity or indeed the plight of many single fathers.
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On March 11 2015 04:58 Shiragaku wrote:
And now the MRAs are here to derail the discussion with the Olympic Oppression Games and trying to blame problems caused by the feminist world order.
Are you a man, do you not think that discussing what should be done for a minority you are not included in and can't do anything to help is slightly patronising? Simple thing is to teach your kids to treat everyone equally and not be dick yourself. It's all in the education of the next generation and ours. "Minority" not even being the case since Women are the majority in the UK.
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On March 11 2015 04:58 Shiragaku wrote:
And now the MRAs are here to derail the discussion with the Olympic Oppression Games and trying to blame problems caused by the feminist world order.
I am waiting for the Red Pill discussion and how its a woman's world. Its only a matter of time before they start trotting out the cooked up stats that men face more domestic abuse than women and more work place discrimination.
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On March 11 2015 05:04 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 04:58 Shiragaku wrote:
And now the MRAs are here to derail the discussion with the Olympic Oppression Games and trying to blame problems caused by the feminist world order. Are you a man, do you not think that discussing what should be done for a minority you are not included in and can't do anything to help is slightly patronising? Simple thing is to teach your kids to treat everyone equally and not be dick yourself. It's all in the education of the next generation and ours.
What? I am trying to find the context for that statement other than outside examples.
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On March 11 2015 05:12 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 05:04 Ovid wrote:On March 11 2015 04:58 Shiragaku wrote:
And now the MRAs are here to derail the discussion with the Olympic Oppression Games and trying to blame problems caused by the feminist world order. Are you a man, do you not think that discussing what should be done for a minority you are not included in and can't do anything to help is slightly patronising? Simple thing is to teach your kids to treat everyone equally and not be dick yourself. It's all in the education of the next generation and ours. What? I am trying to find the context for that statement other than outside examples.
Its the standard "You should be for EQUALITY and not sticking up for a specific group that I don't think is discriminated against." I am waiting for talks about being an "equalist".
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On March 11 2015 05:29 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 05:12 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2015 05:04 Ovid wrote:On March 11 2015 04:58 Shiragaku wrote:
And now the MRAs are here to derail the discussion with the Olympic Oppression Games and trying to blame problems caused by the feminist world order. Are you a man, do you not think that discussing what should be done for a minority you are not included in and can't do anything to help is slightly patronising? Simple thing is to teach your kids to treat everyone equally and not be dick yourself. It's all in the education of the next generation and ours. What? I am trying to find the context for that statement other than outside examples. Its the standard "You should be for EQUALITY and not sticking up for a specific group that I don't think is discriminated against." I am waiting for talks about being an "equalist".
I feel like the "equalists" largely lash out against the minority of people who believe we somehow need to make up for history by discriminating against white males now (they do exist). Their premise is praise-worthy, everyone wants equality, right? But to have equality from inequality, you're going to need to give some people preferential treatment for a little while.
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On March 11 2015 05:34 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 05:29 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2015 05:12 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2015 05:04 Ovid wrote:On March 11 2015 04:58 Shiragaku wrote:
And now the MRAs are here to derail the discussion with the Olympic Oppression Games and trying to blame problems caused by the feminist world order. Are you a man, do you not think that discussing what should be done for a minority you are not included in and can't do anything to help is slightly patronising? Simple thing is to teach your kids to treat everyone equally and not be dick yourself. It's all in the education of the next generation and ours. What? I am trying to find the context for that statement other than outside examples. Its the standard "You should be for EQUALITY and not sticking up for a specific group that I don't think is discriminated against." I am waiting for talks about being an "equalist". I feel like the "equalists" largely lash out against the minority of people who believe we somehow need to make up for history by discriminating against white males now (they do exist). Their premise is praise-worthy, everyone wants equality, right? But to have equality from inequality, you're going to need to give some people preferential treatment for a little while.
It just seems like people who are unwilling to accept that some groups as a whole have a harder time that other groups.
But really its just a cheap arguing tactic because they just want to be able to stay "I'm for equality, why are you not for equality? Why do you want to repress people?" when they just want to deny that a given group is discriminated against.
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Everyone is so angry
It's like when me and my friends play risk.
No one wins.
Except for Dave, he always wins.
But on this topic
It seems a little biased, but still interesting.
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On March 11 2015 05:34 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 05:29 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2015 05:12 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2015 05:04 Ovid wrote:On March 11 2015 04:58 Shiragaku wrote:
And now the MRAs are here to derail the discussion with the Olympic Oppression Games and trying to blame problems caused by the feminist world order. Are you a man, do you not think that discussing what should be done for a minority you are not included in and can't do anything to help is slightly patronising? Simple thing is to teach your kids to treat everyone equally and not be dick yourself. It's all in the education of the next generation and ours. What? I am trying to find the context for that statement other than outside examples. Its the standard "You should be for EQUALITY and not sticking up for a specific group that I don't think is discriminated against." I am waiting for talks about being an "equalist". I feel like the "equalists" largely lash out against the minority of people who believe we somehow need to make up for history by discriminating against white males now (they do exist). Their premise is praise-worthy, everyone wants equality, right? But to have equality from inequality, you're going to need to give some people preferential treatment for a little while.
To create legislation or acts that would allow equality is not called giving preferential treatment, it is called allowing the playing field to be even. That statement has been recycled over and over again whenever the question of social equality has arisen. I guess to some people, it looks preferential.
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Perhaps it's just the difference in statistics and general social consensus between the UK and US?
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On March 11 2015 05:51 Ovid wrote:
Perhaps it's just the difference in statistics and general social consensus between the UK and US?
Why would that have any baring on the current discussion?
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On March 11 2015 06:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 05:51 Ovid wrote:
Perhaps it's just the difference in statistics and general social consensus between the UK and US? Why would that have any baring on the current discussion?
Because it's the obvious difference we have and a possible explanation for our differing views. But this is my last post here, go tell a random women that you enjoy sticking up for her rights on a predominately male forum and see what reaction you get or post why you wouldn't want to do that.
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On March 11 2015 04:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 04:45 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2015 03:27 Glowsphere wrote:
Is there such a thing as a fetish for protecting victimized women? I don't mean actually stepping in and helping somebody, but making elaborate fantasies, where the object of your desire is made into a perfect victim, and you her protector. Ironically it fits the damsel in distress trope, which is now being reframed to be itself a victimizer of women. I ask this question because it's a tendency I've noted sometimes in my own thoughts. And I wonder, if it exists, if it isn't partly behind the tireless energy of the "you don't understand how hard it is to be a woman" crowd. lol no, but I have heard white knight, Sharia Law, and Tumblr SJW all said in the same sentence which leads me to wonder if people get hot and sweaty thinking about other oppressed women that is not of the same culture as them. Maybe it has something to do with guilt of being called out by your own women. But in all seriousness, when has the attempt to be a good human being turned into weird pseudo-Freudian speculations like that? The idea that every single person standing up for women is just doing so to sleep with them is just silly. It also feeds into that idea that women are not people, but obstacles to be overcome on the way to sleeping with them. By sticking up for them, you will trick them into liking you. Its so fucking stupid.
When people act like this [claim anyone defending women just wants to get in with them for sex] I always wonder what sort of thoughts and cognitive rewiring must go on if they ever father a daughter. That or how they reconcile it with having a sister, cousin, or niece.
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On March 11 2015 06:04 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 06:00 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2015 05:51 Ovid wrote:
Perhaps it's just the difference in statistics and general social consensus between the UK and US? Why would that have any baring on the current discussion? Because it's the obvious difference we have and a possible explanation for our differing views. But this is my last post here, go tell a random women that you enjoy sticking up for her rights on a predominately male forum and see what reaction you get or post why you wouldn't want to do that.
All the women I personally know have no issue with me doing this and are happy to have someone stand up for their rights with them. They have never seems concerned with the venue that I do it on. I don't really think I am qualified explain feminism to other women, so really a male dominated forum is the best place for me to discussed the matter.
Also, the topic of this thread is a NYT article saying women are being harassed and abused by men in gaming. The topic has a lot to do with this forum.
On March 11 2015 06:08 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 04:50 Plansix wrote:On March 11 2015 04:45 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2015 03:27 Glowsphere wrote:
Is there such a thing as a fetish for protecting victimized women? I don't mean actually stepping in and helping somebody, but making elaborate fantasies, where the object of your desire is made into a perfect victim, and you her protector. Ironically it fits the damsel in distress trope, which is now being reframed to be itself a victimizer of women. I ask this question because it's a tendency I've noted sometimes in my own thoughts. And I wonder, if it exists, if it isn't partly behind the tireless energy of the "you don't understand how hard it is to be a woman" crowd. lol no, but I have heard white knight, Sharia Law, and Tumblr SJW all said in the same sentence which leads me to wonder if people get hot and sweaty thinking about other oppressed women that is not of the same culture as them. Maybe it has something to do with guilt of being called out by your own women. But in all seriousness, when has the attempt to be a good human being turned into weird pseudo-Freudian speculations like that? The idea that every single person standing up for women is just doing so to sleep with them is just silly. It also feeds into that idea that women are not people, but obstacles to be overcome on the way to sleeping with them. By sticking up for them, you will trick them into liking you. Its so fucking stupid. When people act like this I always wonder what sort of thoughts and cognitive rewiring must go on if they ever father a daughter. That or how they reconcile it with having a sister or cousin.
I have no idea, but it must be a struggle. I just get tired of the idea that the sole purpose of any interaction with a woman, even sticking up for women rights, is some veiled attempt to sleep with them.
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EPT
