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On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby. So what was your argument again?
Is there money in it for them if the situation continues or worsens? The obvious answer is yes. Do they ever propose any real courses of action to solve the problems? No.
Isn't it possible that they are actively trying to get the problems to continue to keep up the easy money?
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On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby. So what was your argument again?
Mainstream news and media and their utter lack of research on video games, people playing them, or any general topic of "young person trends" is a whole discussion topic on its own.
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On March 10 2015 05:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby. So what was your argument again? Mainstream news and media and their utter lack of research on video games, people playing them, or any general topic of "young person trends" is a whole discussion topic on its own.
Well gaming media is also reporting the exact same thing. And the article in the NYT is very well written and researched. If everyone is reporting the exact same thing, both main stream and gaming media, there is a pretty reasonable chance it might just be true.
Or its all some grand SJW Illuminati plot to get girls/minorities into games.
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On March 10 2015 05:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby. So what was your argument again? Mainstream news and media and their utter lack of research on video games, people playing them, or any general topic of "young person trends" is a whole discussion topic on its own. Well gaming media is also reporting the exact same thing. And the article in the NYT is very well written and researched. If everyone is reporting the exact same thing, both main stream and gaming media, there is a pretty reasonable chance it might just be true. Or its all some grand SJW Illuminati plot to get girls/minorities into games.
It's not some grand plot. Its clickbait garbage. You don't need some cabal of evildoers to milk suckers for clicks. It doesn't have to be some massive conspiracy for multiple news sources to use the same techniques to make easy money.
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I love how "clickbait garbage" is pretty much code for "anything I don't agree with". Especially when some of the coverage by major news outlets isn't even internet based, like National Public Radio and the BBC.
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On March 10 2015 05:28 Plansix wrote:
I love how "clickbait garbage" is pretty much code for "anything I don't agree with". Especially when some of the coverage by major news outlets isn't even internet based, like National Public Radio and the BBC.
As much as I love NPR, they do have some clickbaity as fuck titles for some of their coverage, it's pretty much norm at this point for new coverage.
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On March 10 2015 05:28 Plansix wrote:
I love how "clickbait garbage" is pretty much code for "anything I don't agree with". Especially when some of the coverage by major news outlets isn't even internet based, like National Public Radio and the BBC.
It's circling information. Every other news media takes the informations from the others and post it. That's how a non news like the zoe quinn affair came to be top information in France most respected newspaper "Le Monde" without any real information on what actually happen, but just a simple focus on the supposed insult that she got because she was a woman.
Note that rarely if ever the newspapers actually back up their claim with real empirical data. It's always specific event that create emotion and that are eventually talked about by the medias.
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On March 10 2015 05:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby. So what was your argument again? Mainstream news and media and their utter lack of research on video games, people playing them, or any general topic of "young person trends" is a whole discussion topic on its own. Well gaming media is also reporting the exact same thing. And the article in the NYT is very well written and researched. If everyone is reporting the exact same thing, both main stream and gaming media, there is a pretty reasonable chance it might just be true. Or its all some grand SJW Illuminati plot to get girls/minorities into games.
Of course it's true. Of course there IS online sexual harassment. No one is arguing that it doesn't take place, we're simply exasperated at the fact that a bunch of wankers are turning the issue into tabloid level in order to turn profit. The documentary is an example of that.
They're making it worse too because they are feeding the trolls and actively giving them a voice. It's not like violence or racism (well, even that's arguable). Feminism feeds off of trolls and trolls feeds off of feminism. When feminists whine about trolls, the trolls just troll harder. Reporting about it is fine, but we're beyond that point now. Making a huge fuss about it, beyond its actual proportions, just shows the trolls they're being effective.
It's kind of a fad really, not really a actual societal issue. I'm personally more concerned that everyone is buying iPhones made by Chinese child/slave labor, to be perfectly frank, but those kinds of stories just don't sell as well, do they?
I have beef with media either way. e.g. French media doing a very poor job of describing things that happened in the United States and making Americans come off as racist fucks. When you hear that kind of thing on French radio and then look up what actually happened, you come to realize that media needs to be taken with a grain of salt and cross-referenced constantly.
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On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby.
I was of course not talking about a publication as a whole, but about the content, because where I come from putting an acronym at the end of your article doesn't make you necessarily right or wrong.
I cannot accept that you believe the NYT, with over 1,000 writers, or the BBC with over 10,000 employees, is a holy authority which would never be mistaken about something. The minute they printed something you thought was a non-issue this respect of authority you have would disappear. Of course if someone makes a movie and their thesis is reprinted in the NYT, that doesn't mean it's ennobled and immune to any further critical analysis.
On March 10 2015 05:28 Plansix wrote:
I love how "clickbait garbage" is pretty much code for "anything I don't agree with"
I believe if you mobilized all your strawmen into one force they would outnumber even the terracotta army.
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On March 10 2015 05:28 Plansix wrote:
I love how "clickbait garbage" is pretty much code for "anything I don't agree with". Especially when some of the coverage by major news outlets isn't even internet based, like National Public Radio and the BBC.
Coverage can still be clickbait garbage without being on the internet. Television and radio news both have strong incentives for luring in viewers. I guess it's not clicking, but it's the same kind of conflict-promoting bullshit.
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On March 10 2015 05:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby. So what was your argument again? Mainstream news and media and their utter lack of research on video games, people playing them, or any general topic of "young person trends" is a whole discussion topic on its own. Well gaming media is also reporting the exact same thing. And the article in the NYT is very well written and researched. If everyone is reporting the exact same thing, both main stream and gaming media, there is a pretty reasonable chance it might just be true. Or its all some grand SJW Illuminati plot to get girls/minorities into games.
It's also the same kind of general article you saw when people like Jack Thompson were talking up video games as a hub of youth violence or...Dungeons and Dragons or MTG creating satanic cults. Or Rock & Roll corrupting the youth.
It's very easy to have articles that sound reasonably true, especially if it just involves interviewing people, and it's the kind of flavour of article and reporting that organizations like NYT, BBC, CBS, etc. have pumped out for decades.
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On March 10 2015 04:42 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 04:33 ZasZ. wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 10 2015 04:16 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 04:07 ZasZ. wrote:On March 10 2015 03:55 Incognoto wrote:To be fair, it does seem like a lot of people, especially on Team Liquid, are happy and pumped to see women invest themselves in starcraft. Look at how much respect the girls like Anna, Rachel, Smix, Sojung, etc and so on have gotten for their work? If you go into Livibee's chat or Aphrodite's chat, you'll see mostly positive content. I am very happy to have girls in esports. I'm pretty sure that most are like me. + Show Spoiler +http://i.imgur.com/VMinw7J.gif I think travis hit the nail on the head with his first post. Most probably are, but the internet allows the vocal minority to be extremely loud, and unfortunately it's the first thing people will see. Team Liquid is heavily moderated, and has built up that reputation after years of slapping down people who post inappropriately. Unfortunately, due to the voice they possess, it's not good enough to just pretend sexist gamers don't exist because it is very clear they do, and it hurts the community as a whole. This topic is really for another thread, but I do believe it is a parenting problem where the web is more of a parental influence than actual parents are. If we were doing a better job teaching kids that the internet is no different from any other public forum and the people you are degrading are, you know, real people, we would be in a different place. If the sexist trolls are indeed a minority, then you might agree that the issue is at least somewhat blown out of proportion? The way I see it, its the sites themselves (gamespot, console networks, etc) which should be required to police what the users are saying. If networks banned the trolls spouting hateful bullshit on their servers, then perhaps we would actually live in a "cleaner" internet. I just don't think that writing articles and making documentaries about it helps. If anything, you make money off of the problem, but you aren't really fixing it. None of those articles are asking gamespot, PSN or whatever to moderate their users (which would actually help), they're just fueling the fire. That doesn't mean the the likes of Riot didn't clean things up on their end, for example. Riot is a good example of how the problem should be tackled. The rest is clickbait It's blown out of proportion only when the headlines say that ALL gamers are sexist, misogynist, etc. and there have been a few of those. But I don't think the issue itself is blown out of proportion. If a small population has a powerful voice, they are a powerful population, that's been proven throughout history. And the trolls have shown they will do whatever it takes to make it seem like they are the majority. And people on the outside will believe them because they are the loudest. Yes, a good step would be for companies to actually crack down on destructive behavior on their forums and client services. Many already do this, such as Riot and TeamLiquid. But it doesn't make it easy to do, and eliminating 100% of the toxicity from games like Dota and LoL is nigh on impossible, and banning someone for being a douche doesn't magically turn them into a good person, it makes them a douche who is temporarily without his voice. And you forget that even if you ban all of the trolls from your website or your game, they can go create their own forum. I would say "great, live and let live," at that point except that they use it as a platform for committing criminal harassment and just making people's lives a living hell. Really the only thing we can do is try to teach our kids that the internet is just another public forum and it isn't appropriate to treat people that way. The internet would be a very different place if the only people who harassed online are the type of people who would harass offline. But anonymity is a powerful thing. You do realize that those who are giving the trolls their voice are the ones writing articles and making documentaries about the issue (while making money off of it)? Show nested quote +Part of the drama that is going into these articles are the reactions of obstinate gamers who immediately leap into "not all gamers" mode. Haven't we already agreed that the trolls are a minority? Wouldn't that mean that "not all gamers" would be true? Show nested quote +It's a vicious cycle. It's hard to get women in gaming because men don't know how to behave around women in gaming, because there are very few women in games. I'm confident that if, overnight, the distribution became 50/50, awkward nerds would slowly learn how to not be awkward and we would have a more inclusive community. But that organic change in thought would only occur if more women existed in gaming, and we have to take first steps to get it there. I don't understand this. Is the problem vicious harassment (e.g. pregnant with triplets) or awkward flirting? Vicious harassment is done by a minority, not a majority. most people with common sense do not condone trolling of girls, or anyone for that matter.
Trolls don't need the media to give them a voice, that is the beauty of the age that we live in. They have Twitter, where they can directly harass the people they don't like and blocking them becomes a full-time job. Sure, media will always report on the most controversial topics that will get them the most attention, that is what the media does. But unless they report outright lies, it doesn't mean it's all bad. If people weren't dicks on the internet, the media wouldn't be able to report on people being dicks on the internet. In fact, people have been dicks on the internet for a long time but only recently has swatting or realistic death/rape threats of public figures become a problem. You can hate on the media all you want, and believe me I do, but I don't consider it unreasonable that they decide to report on swatting, which is a criminal act and representative of the worst people our society has to offer.
Another example, the way that the media covers school shootings in America is deplorable. They cover the shooter rather than the victims and provide a play-by-play for those taking notes at home for how to kill as many people as possible as efficiently as possible. Does that mean that school shootings aren't an issue? Just because the media is terrible at addressing something doesn't mean it's not worthy of being addressed.
Why can't both issues, vicious harassment and unwanted sexual attention, be problems? They come from the same place after all, awkward young men not knowing how to conduct themselves in public. And there are many degrees of inappropriate behavior. You are right that most sane individuals do not condone rape or death threats, but there are tamer forms of harassment that nevertheless contribute to a culture that excludes women. But all of these issues stem from the fact that because women are rare in gaming, young men don't know how to behave around them, which makes it harder to get women into gaming.
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On March 10 2015 05:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:20 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby. So what was your argument again? Mainstream news and media and their utter lack of research on video games, people playing them, or any general topic of "young person trends" is a whole discussion topic on its own. Well gaming media is also reporting the exact same thing. And the article in the NYT is very well written and researched. If everyone is reporting the exact same thing, both main stream and gaming media, there is a pretty reasonable chance it might just be true. Or its all some grand SJW Illuminati plot to get girls/minorities into games. It's also the same kind of general article you saw when people like Jack Thompson were talking up video games as a hub of youth violence or...Dungeons and Dragons or MTG creating satanic cults. Or Rock & Roll corrupting the youth. It's very easy to have articles that sound reasonably true, especially if it just involves interviewing people, and it's the kind of flavour of article and reporting that organizations like NYT, BBC, CBS, etc. have pumped out for decades.
I am just going to disagree and i think the reporting is totally valid in most cases. I don't buy into the whole argument that is all click base and they are misrepresenting the issue. My main reasoning behind that is that I only hear that argument coming from men on the internet, who I feel have a pretty poor perspective on how bad the harassment can be or the extent. I find the whole argument to be pretty weak and just a way to discredit the issue. And its all pretty much boils down to "Eh, its doesn't sound like a big deal to me."
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On March 10 2015 05:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:20 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby. So what was your argument again? Mainstream news and media and their utter lack of research on video games, people playing them, or any general topic of "young person trends" is a whole discussion topic on its own. Well gaming media is also reporting the exact same thing. And the article in the NYT is very well written and researched. If everyone is reporting the exact same thing, both main stream and gaming media, there is a pretty reasonable chance it might just be true. Or its all some grand SJW Illuminati plot to get girls/minorities into games. It's also the same kind of general article you saw when people like Jack Thompson were talking up video games as a hub of youth violence or...Dungeons and Dragons or MTG creating satanic cults. Or Rock & Roll corrupting the youth. It's very easy to have articles that sound reasonably true, especially if it just involves interviewing people, and it's the kind of flavour of article and reporting that organizations like NYT, BBC, CBS, etc. have pumped out for decades.
Except we have studies that show video games do not contribute directly to violence, and there was never any proof that D&D or MTG created satanic cults. But you don't have to be in gaming for very long before you notice that gamers, as a collective, have no idea how to behave around women. The evidence is all around us. And as someone who grew up in front of the TV and PC playing games, I recognize that it is hard to learn how to behave around anyone other than gamer dudes if all you do is spend your time with gamer dudes. Which is why, if there were a lot more gamer girls, I think this problem would largely solve itself.
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On March 10 2015 05:43 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 10 2015 05:20 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby. So what was your argument again? Mainstream news and media and their utter lack of research on video games, people playing them, or any general topic of "young person trends" is a whole discussion topic on its own. Well gaming media is also reporting the exact same thing. And the article in the NYT is very well written and researched. If everyone is reporting the exact same thing, both main stream and gaming media, there is a pretty reasonable chance it might just be true. Or its all some grand SJW Illuminati plot to get girls/minorities into games. It's also the same kind of general article you saw when people like Jack Thompson were talking up video games as a hub of youth violence or...Dungeons and Dragons or MTG creating satanic cults. Or Rock & Roll corrupting the youth. It's very easy to have articles that sound reasonably true, especially if it just involves interviewing people, and it's the kind of flavour of article and reporting that organizations like NYT, BBC, CBS, etc. have pumped out for decades. I am just going to disagree and i think the reporting is totally valid in most cases. I don't buy into the whole argument that is all click base and they are misrepresenting the issue. My main reasoning behind that is that I only hear that argument coming from men on the internet, who I feel have a pretty poor perspective on how bad the harassment can be or the extent.
Point was more that you shouldn't assume that it's factual reporting just because it's major news outlets doing it (appeal to authority, if you'd prefer).
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On March 10 2015 03:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 03:30 WhiteDog wrote:On March 10 2015 03:26 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 03:18 WhiteDog wrote:On March 10 2015 03:15 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 03:07 WhiteDog wrote:On March 10 2015 03:06 levelping wrote:On March 10 2015 03:03 WhiteDog wrote:On March 10 2015 03:00 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 02:53 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
You're a kid really if you believe hitting on a girl, even in such a clumsy manner as on the internet, is a "bad" behavior. Do you think all girls are weak little virgins that needs protection ? Sex is part of life, and men trying to find partners is absolutly normal.
Never used voice communicator with strangers in games, didn't prevent me from achieving a good enough level. Its not bad behavior if you don't throw a fit if you get rejected in a most amazing manner. But unwanted sexual attention and the negative blow back that comes from rejecting said attention is something women deal with. http://www.theonion.com/articles/courageous-man-overcomes-womans-body-language-to-c,38152/This Onion article pretty much sums up the issue that women face with unwanted sexual attention. The article does not respond to my point at all. It's harassment, not hitting on a girl. And seriously, first world problem. You part of those people that believe unattractive men should not hit on girls ? I think that article is pretty clearly just saying that unwanted attention from clueless guys is annoying and is something that girls have to put up with. Her "body language" is saying no it must mean he already made his move right ? Pretty much yes. You can pretty much tell if a girl doesn't want your attention in the first 5 minutes of talking with her. Maybe even less if you are just introducing yourself for the first time. Also, by making this advance, you are putting the woman an awkward situation. She doesn't want to be a jerk, but wants to be clear she isn't interested. The burden is on her to be both very clear and not to hurt the guys feelings. And when the person is socially awkward or just an idiot, its makes it even harder. Its why most of the single women I know have fake wedding/engagement rings for when they go out. You have fully interiorized the hypocrisy of sexual relations. Congratulation. What the fuck does that even mean? The only hypocrisy I see in sexual relations is that some dudes feel that hitting on a girl is totally ok because she should be excited that she is attractive enough to get his attention. And women wants attention, but from men they feel attracted to and in places they want to. The two not wanting to show their underlying motive, which is reproduction - pleasant event right ? Love, it's beautiful. She doesn't want the attention. She wants to go out, be on a stream or play a game. Hate to break it to you, when girls get dressed up to go out, they don't do it to attract a guy. Thats the problem, you assume they want the attention, which they do not.
Good lord dude, women LOVE the attention of men, And yes they dress up to get it. No they don't like guys who they aren't attracted to to overstay their welcome but you sound like a guy who has zero clue about women at all. Classic 2015 clueless male who gets dating advice from mom
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On March 10 2015 05:46 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 10 2015 05:20 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby. So what was your argument again? Mainstream news and media and their utter lack of research on video games, people playing them, or any general topic of "young person trends" is a whole discussion topic on its own. Well gaming media is also reporting the exact same thing. And the article in the NYT is very well written and researched. If everyone is reporting the exact same thing, both main stream and gaming media, there is a pretty reasonable chance it might just be true. Or its all some grand SJW Illuminati plot to get girls/minorities into games. It's also the same kind of general article you saw when people like Jack Thompson were talking up video games as a hub of youth violence or...Dungeons and Dragons or MTG creating satanic cults. Or Rock & Roll corrupting the youth. It's very easy to have articles that sound reasonably true, especially if it just involves interviewing people, and it's the kind of flavour of article and reporting that organizations like NYT, BBC, CBS, etc. have pumped out for decades. Except we have studies that show video games do not contribute directly to violence, and there was never any proof that D&D or MTG created satanic cults. But you don't have to be in gaming for very long before you notice that gamers, as a collective, have no idea how to behave around women. The evidence is all around us. And as someone who grew up in front of the TV and PC playing games, I recognize that it is hard to learn how to behave around anyone other than gamer dudes if all you do is spend your time with gamer dudes. Which is why, if there were a lot more gamer girls, I think this problem would largely solve itself.
And it should also be pointed out that media have been proven to effect our eating habits, body image and a number of other social issues. Wartime propaganda was and still is extremely effective. There is no reason to believe that some of the problematic parts of gaming and its culture have could contribute to sexism.
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On March 10 2015 05:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2015 05:43 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 10 2015 05:20 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 10 2015 05:08 Plansix wrote:On March 10 2015 05:04 oBlade wrote:On March 10 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
So wait, news companies shouldn't report on things that people want to read? Their goal isn't to make money? And people who make documentaries shouldn't' make money? Is this where the whole "professional victim money grab" argument comes in? Because that one is my favorite. You have recognized that their goal is to make money, so let me ask, do you think that tabloid news should be taken at face value as 100% true? Is the NYT a tabloid news paper? How about NPR, the BBC, ABC, CBS and almost every tech site that matters? None of these are tabloid news and they are all reporting the same thing, that sexism in games(and tech as a whole) is an issue due to it being a male dominated field/hobby. So what was your argument again? Mainstream news and media and their utter lack of research on video games, people playing them, or any general topic of "young person trends" is a whole discussion topic on its own. Well gaming media is also reporting the exact same thing. And the article in the NYT is very well written and researched. If everyone is reporting the exact same thing, both main stream and gaming media, there is a pretty reasonable chance it might just be true. Or its all some grand SJW Illuminati plot to get girls/minorities into games. It's also the same kind of general article you saw when people like Jack Thompson were talking up video games as a hub of youth violence or...Dungeons and Dragons or MTG creating satanic cults. Or Rock & Roll corrupting the youth. It's very easy to have articles that sound reasonably true, especially if it just involves interviewing people, and it's the kind of flavour of article and reporting that organizations like NYT, BBC, CBS, etc. have pumped out for decades. I am just going to disagree and i think the reporting is totally valid in most cases. I don't buy into the whole argument that is all click base and they are misrepresenting the issue. My main reasoning behind that is that I only hear that argument coming from men on the internet, who I feel have a pretty poor perspective on how bad the harassment can be or the extent. Point was more that you shouldn't assume that it's factual reporting just because it's major news outlets doing it (appeal to authority, if you'd prefer).
And you should assume they are false without evidence they are. The idea that every single news outlet is misrepresenting the facts all at the same time, over and over, needs some sort of evidence to back it up.
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News is memetic and different media forces are constantly trying to maintain parity. If one outlet has a "scoop" everyone else is going to want to mirror it. It's not dependent strictly on what the content is but how much attention it gets. It's similar to the advertising business, companies would rather not spend money on advertising and split the market, but they have to advertise because so is the other guy.
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ITT: a bunch of dudes insisting that any problem which doesn't affect them personally doesn't exist, that nobody can possibly have it worse off than them, and that any article they disagree with is intellectually dishonest clickbait by virtue of focusing on problems that don't personally impact them.
Honestly I get it, in that I used to be similarly oblivious because, well, I'm a dude. I have never in my life played a multiplayer game without encountering a certain percentage of trolling assholes, and so I assumed women complaining about sexism in gaming were just misinterpreting that minority of douchebags as being both representative of gamers as a whole, and seeing their behavior as specific to them rather than a universal thing...
Until that is I actually started dating and meeting more gamer women, literally every one of whom had a plethora of stories of total fucking creeps crossing lines that I as a dude have never had to deal with. My wife and I play a lot of games together, which makes it pretty easy to compare and contrast how we both get treated when playing the game...and yes, she has to deal with way more shit than I do, and a lot of it strikes a decidedly creepier tone than the standard trolling douchebags that guy gamers have to deal with.
A similar phenomenon happens with my black friends who game. A lot of them outright refuse to use voice chat because when they do, there's a decent chance some asshole is going to hear their voice and immediately start spouting loads of racial bullshit targetted specifically at them. That's not to say that I as a white dude never hear racial slurs, but it isn't with the same frequency, nor does it have nearly the same impact.
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EPT
