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On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry
Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic
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On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic
i agree
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On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic
If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is
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On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is
I must agree.. Don't tell me that the President gives the order when to go in and when you don't at the moment in both situations...
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On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is
The various hostage takers are localised and surrounded. So I don't really see what the State of Emergency would bring here
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On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is
That's not the point. State of emergency is a extreme tool you use if you need it. They don't need it.
Or you will have to explain me how solving two hostage crisis will be made easier with a state of emergency. It's not like suddenly policemen will become super heroes, it just suspends the normal functioning of the institutions and some of the rights of citizens. which is great if you are being invaded or if you have a coup going on, or something like that.
Right now that's completely useless and unnecessary.
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On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is
Optimist description is that 3 terrorists attacked Charlie Hebdo then made a run for it, separating in 2 groups. 1 of them got cornered near Montrouge, killed 2 on his way out, while the 2 others escaped to north/east of the city yesterday. Early this morning police moved too close to their position and they stole a car, before being once again cornered, this time in a closed area where they hold hostages. Meanwhile the 3rd got found and also ended up taking hostage in a market in Paris.
If you consider police have only 3 targets, all 3 cornered and an hostage situation to manage/under way, there is no need for a shutdown of the city.
The paranoia part is that we are not certain they were only 3 to begin with, which is why false alerts like the one near the Eiffel tower are taken seriously. The fact that they do not ask for a state of emergency means the first scenario seems probable at this stage.
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France9034 Posts
State of emergency would be clearly:
- overkill
- useless
in this situation.
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I was talking about "etat d'urgence" for the option to perquisition (is it an english word ?) without court order so police could go wherever it was needed without having to deal with court. For speed in a sense. I admit that this is only 3 guys (yeah in finality it's only 3 fucktard) and that the last time it was declared was for the event in 2005. Which was national.
Also i talked about it just when the second shooting was announced and that the guy wasn't surrounded at the time.
Maybe i'm just overreacting.
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On January 10 2015 00:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is That's not the point. State of emergency is a extreme tool you use if you need it. They don't need it. Or you will have to explain me how solving two hostage crisis will be made easier with a state of emergency. It's not like suddenly policemen will become super heroes, it just suspends the normal functioning of the institutions and some of the rights of citizens. which is great if you are being invaded or if you have a coup going on, or something like that. Right now that's completely useless and unnecessary.
While i agree with you, does this mean the police/armed forces have to ask for permission (From the President e.g) when to strike, lets say in a situation where the forces at the scene would see it fit to strike right that moment?
I.e does the Police forces/leaders have the right to go when and if it's needed, without asking the higher-up(s)?
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Journalists are being asked/forced to leave buildings near the Porte de Vincennes according to LeMonde
On January 10 2015 00:37 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is That's not the point. State of emergency is a extreme tool you use if you need it. They don't need it. Or you will have to explain me how solving two hostage crisis will be made easier with a state of emergency. It's not like suddenly policemen will become super heroes, it just suspends the normal functioning of the institutions and some of the rights of citizens. which is great if you are being invaded or if you have a coup going on, or something like that. Right now that's completely useless and unnecessary. While i agree with you, does this mean the police/armed forces have to ask for permission (From the President e.g) when to strike, lets say in a situation where the forces at the scene would see it fit to strike right that moment? I.e does the Police forces/leaders have the right to go when and if it's needed, without asking the higher-up(s)?
I have no idea about this as far as official texts and rules go, but considering units like GIGN or RAID are tailored for these kinds of situation I think they can go in when they want.
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On January 10 2015 00:37 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is That's not the point. State of emergency is a extreme tool you use if you need it. They don't need it. Or you will have to explain me how solving two hostage crisis will be made easier with a state of emergency. It's not like suddenly policemen will become super heroes, it just suspends the normal functioning of the institutions and some of the rights of citizens. which is great if you are being invaded or if you have a coup going on, or something like that. Right now that's completely useless and unnecessary. While i agree with you, does this mean the police forces have to ask for permission (From the President e.g) when to strike, lets say in a situation that the forces at the scene would see it fit to strike right that moment?
technically before the assault of the gign, they need the order from the president
i said technically because usually i suppose he will gives to the chief of the operation carte blanche
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On January 10 2015 00:40 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:37 Grettin wrote:On January 10 2015 00:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is That's not the point. State of emergency is a extreme tool you use if you need it. They don't need it. Or you will have to explain me how solving two hostage crisis will be made easier with a state of emergency. It's not like suddenly policemen will become super heroes, it just suspends the normal functioning of the institutions and some of the rights of citizens. which is great if you are being invaded or if you have a coup going on, or something like that. Right now that's completely useless and unnecessary. While i agree with you, does this mean the police forces have to ask for permission (From the President e.g) when to strike, lets say in a situation that the forces at the scene would see it fit to strike right that moment? technically before the assault of the gign, they need the order from the president i said technically because usually i suppose he will gives to the chief of the operation carte blanche
So i'm misinformed then (not to say i was in the first place). Because i thought "carte blanche" was only possible in the "Etat d'urgence" case.
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On January 10 2015 00:36 FFW_Rude wrote:
I was talking about "etat d'urgence" for the option to perquisition (is it an english word ?) without court order so police could go wherever it was needed without having to deal with court. For speed in a sense. I admit that this is only 3 guys (yeah in finality it's only 3 fucktard) and that the last time it was declared was for the event in 2005. Which was national.
Also i talked about it just when the second shooting was announced and that the guy wasn't surrounded at the time.
Maybe i'm just overreacting.
I'm quite sure that police and GIGN can act on their own discretion when it comes to diffusing hostage situations. Just that they have to act within a certain legal framework to avoid them to just do whatever the hell they want. No-one is above the law.
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In the US, the state of emergency also allows the city/state to tap into a number of government funds and received assistance from other states and cities without the need for paperwork or authorization from their legislature. It also allows them to take over TV channels to broadcast information to the public.
I don't know how it works in France, but it likely does more than just give the police special legal powers for the duration.
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On January 10 2015 00:44 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:40 Makro wrote:On January 10 2015 00:37 Grettin wrote:On January 10 2015 00:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is That's not the point. State of emergency is a extreme tool you use if you need it. They don't need it. Or you will have to explain me how solving two hostage crisis will be made easier with a state of emergency. It's not like suddenly policemen will become super heroes, it just suspends the normal functioning of the institutions and some of the rights of citizens. which is great if you are being invaded or if you have a coup going on, or something like that. Right now that's completely useless and unnecessary. While i agree with you, does this mean the police forces have to ask for permission (From the President e.g) when to strike, lets say in a situation that the forces at the scene would see it fit to strike right that moment? technically before the assault of the gign, they need the order from the president i said technically because usually i suppose he will gives to the chief of the operation carte blanche So i'm misinformed then (not to say i was in the first place). Because i thought "carte blanche" was only possible in the "Etat d'urgence" case.
in our constitution the president can start a war without even the approval of the parliament and without the necessity of an état d'urgence
what i want to mean is that the president has a huge room for manoeuvre without any state of emergency
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On January 10 2015 00:40 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:37 Grettin wrote:On January 10 2015 00:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is That's not the point. State of emergency is a extreme tool you use if you need it. They don't need it. Or you will have to explain me how solving two hostage crisis will be made easier with a state of emergency. It's not like suddenly policemen will become super heroes, it just suspends the normal functioning of the institutions and some of the rights of citizens. which is great if you are being invaded or if you have a coup going on, or something like that. Right now that's completely useless and unnecessary. While i agree with you, does this mean the police forces have to ask for permission (From the President e.g) when to strike, lets say in a situation that the forces at the scene would see it fit to strike right that moment? technically before the assault of the gign, they need the order from the president i said technically because usually i suppose he will gives to the chief of the operation carte blanche
This is what worried me the most and thus agreeing with the state of emergency at first. But if it is the case, that either the raiding party has the call here or the President has actually given them "full power" (as it should be IMO), then there's no need for "état d'urgence".
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On January 10 2015 00:46 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:44 FFW_Rude wrote:On January 10 2015 00:40 Makro wrote:On January 10 2015 00:37 Grettin wrote:On January 10 2015 00:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is That's not the point. State of emergency is a extreme tool you use if you need it. They don't need it. Or you will have to explain me how solving two hostage crisis will be made easier with a state of emergency. It's not like suddenly policemen will become super heroes, it just suspends the normal functioning of the institutions and some of the rights of citizens. which is great if you are being invaded or if you have a coup going on, or something like that. Right now that's completely useless and unnecessary. While i agree with you, does this mean the police forces have to ask for permission (From the President e.g) when to strike, lets say in a situation that the forces at the scene would see it fit to strike right that moment? technically before the assault of the gign, they need the order from the president i said technically because usually i suppose he will gives to the chief of the operation carte blanche So i'm misinformed then (not to say i was in the first place). Because i thought "carte blanche" was only possible in the "Etat d'urgence" case. in our constitution the president can start a war without even the approval of the parliament and without the necessity of an état d'urgence what i want to mean is that the president has a huge room for manoeuvre without any state of emergency
French presidents have almost dictator kind of level powers indeed.
I always thought it was way too much.
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On January 10 2015 00:46 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 00:44 FFW_Rude wrote:On January 10 2015 00:40 Makro wrote:On January 10 2015 00:37 Grettin wrote:On January 10 2015 00:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:25 SoSexy wrote:On January 10 2015 00:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2015 23:20 FFW_Rude wrote:
I'm sorry but "Etat d'urgence" must be called. They need too. It's too big.
for non french. "Etat d'urgence" is special police rights. I dunno how to explain it iun english sorry Why would you need a state of emergency?? They haven't asked for it, and they most probably don't need it. It's a really, really, really extreme me sure. Situation is grave, but I don't think it would change anything except creating a bit more confusion and panic If this is not an état d'urgence situation, i don't know what is That's not the point. State of emergency is a extreme tool you use if you need it. They don't need it. Or you will have to explain me how solving two hostage crisis will be made easier with a state of emergency. It's not like suddenly policemen will become super heroes, it just suspends the normal functioning of the institutions and some of the rights of citizens. which is great if you are being invaded or if you have a coup going on, or something like that. Right now that's completely useless and unnecessary. While i agree with you, does this mean the police forces have to ask for permission (From the President e.g) when to strike, lets say in a situation that the forces at the scene would see it fit to strike right that moment? technically before the assault of the gign, they need the order from the president i said technically because usually i suppose he will gives to the chief of the operation carte blanche So i'm misinformed then (not to say i was in the first place). Because i thought "carte blanche" was only possible in the "Etat d'urgence" case. in our constitution the president can start a war without even the approval of the parliament and without the necessity of an état d'urgence what i want to mean is that the president has a huge room for manoeuvre without any state of emergency
Yeah. Sometime you think you know what you are talking about and people show you that it's not the case. This was one of those moments. Thank you for the clarification.
On topic, snipers are positionned in Dammartin (brother scene)
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 10 2015 00:38 OtherWorld wrote:
Journalists are being asked/forced to leave buildings near the Porte de Vincennes according to LeMonde
could you guys from france add a small explanation when posting about places like that? so we dont have to google evrytime to understand whats going on 
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EPT![[image loading]](http://cdnmo.coveritlive.com/media/image/201501/thumb900_phpvac6nb053365.jpg)
