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On April 24 2017 17:00 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 15:33 OtherWorld wrote:
^Unless some people in her party manage to get her head. I mean, with her line, the FN is clearly hitting a glass ceiling. In my opinion, the only reason the FN is where it is at the moment is because of her, and more precisely because her last name is Le Pen. Remove Le Pen from the FN and it likely becomes a fringe party once more, or starts to dwindle in popularity.
That's what we thought about the FPÖ when Haider left the party with the last bits of sanity. Turns out that society has grown so accustomed to that label that the Nazi-leader they put in charge afterwards is now polling beyond 30%. They could probably put Hitler in charge at this point and people would elect them.
Don't get your hopes up, the far-right is not going away in our lifetime.
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On April 24 2017 13:04 Spaylz wrote:
I find Mélenchon's reaction to be extremely distasteful. The behavior he showed, the contempt and disdain for those who don't share in his values, is one of the reasons why I didn't want to vote for him. The man is too brazen for his own good; or anybody's.
?? What reaction?
Of course Mélenchon's voters are mad about Hamon, he made us lose. He had an historic opportunity, but he preferred to save the money of the PS rather than let the left access the second round. Hamon had zero chances to reach the second round. Everyone knew it. Voting Hamon was voting Macron. No one could seriously ignore it.
You should of course ignore the comments of Mélenchon's supporters, since their disappoinment and the rancor towards the PS will make them write fairly horrific and outrageous things. But I hope that Hamon voters (like you if I remember correctly?) are ready to face the heavy consequences of their choice.
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France12911 Posts
On April 24 2017 18:24 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 13:04 Spaylz wrote:
I find Mélenchon's reaction to be extremely distasteful. The behavior he showed, the contempt and disdain for those who don't share in his values, is one of the reasons why I didn't want to vote for him. The man is too brazen for his own good; or anybody's. ?? What reaction? Of course Mélenchon's voters are mad about Hamon, he made us lose. He had an historic opportunity, but he preferred to save the money of the PS rather than let the left access the second round. Hamon had zero chances to reach the second round. Everyone knew it. Voting Hamon was voting Macron. No one could seriously ignore it. You should of course ignore the comments of Mélenchon's supporters, since their disappoinment and the rancor towards the PS will make them write fairly horrific and outrageous things. But I hope that Hamon voters (like you if I remember correctly?) are ready to face the heavy consequences of their choice.
It's not Hamon that made Melenchon lose rofl, it's Melenchon that made Melenchon lose.
Since Hamon and Melenchon had almost the same program, except that Melenchon had a few points that most French (even those that could otherwise vote for him) couldn't agree with, and that Hamon couldn't withdraw because PS needed refund, Melenchon had to withdraw and it would probably have worked.
But now that he has lost, the masks come off and he "ragequits" instead of just saying gg and accept the defeat.
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Mélenchon's reaction confirming I made a mistake voting for him again.
I can't stand the guy, I spend every time five years hating him, and every time, 15 minutes before voting, I change my mind and go for him anyway. Then I regret and everything he does from there makes it clear I fucking well should.
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What are you all talking about when talking about Mélenchon's reaction ? Did I miss something ? I mean he didn't explicitely call to vote for Macron and sounded quite bitter in his 22:00 speech, but apart from that ?
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On April 24 2017 18:24 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 13:04 Spaylz wrote:
I find Mélenchon's reaction to be extremely distasteful. The behavior he showed, the contempt and disdain for those who don't share in his values, is one of the reasons why I didn't want to vote for him. The man is too brazen for his own good; or anybody's. ?? What reaction? Of course Mélenchon's voters are mad about Hamon, he made us lose. He had an historic opportunity, but he preferred to save the money of the PS rather than let the left access the second round. Hamon had zero chances to reach the second round. Everyone knew it. Voting Hamon was voting Macron. No one could seriously ignore it. You should of course ignore the comments of Mélenchon's supporters, since their disappoinment and the rancor towards the PS will make them write fairly horrific and outrageous things. But I hope that Hamon voters (like you if I remember correctly?) are ready to face the heavy consequences of their choice.
That reaction. That's what I find distasteful. The man refuses to concede, he refuses to endorse (which is considered the gentleman thing to do). He rants about "mediacrates" and "oligarchs"; you see where I'm going with this. He lacked dignity and showed his true colours, I agree with the above poster.
It was a reason why I didn't vote for him, and I'm glad I trusted my instincts. I am comforted in my opinion that Mélenchon would have been a disaster on the international scale.
And you, yourself, have perfectly illustrated what I stated in my previous posts. You are seemingly incapable of having a healthy argument with someone whose opinion differs from yours. I voted Hamon (or would have, it turns out my vote by proxy paperwork didn't go through because the local townhall people lost it... but that's another topic), and you can't stomach that apparently. I "robbed" your candidate of his win. So now you feel obligated to spit on me and "threaten" me with "heavy consequences" that I must face.
Ridiculous. Learn to respect other people's views, please. Learn to disagree with others in a healthy fashion.
Lastly, I don't think one should ignore a candidate's voter, no matter who they are. Those who vote for Le Pen have reasons to do so, it might do us some good to at least try and hear them out. And inversely, if Mélenchon's voters misbehave, it should be noted. Especially when Mélenchon himself acts like such a sore loser.
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Here's the score of Macron and all candidates who ran in 2012, with their progress or their loss.
![[image loading]](http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/721377Rsultats2017.jpg)
- Macron had no real equivalent in 2012, though you could compare him with Bayrou, in which case he got +15 points. This is the first time since 1981 that a center-right candidate is ahead of the gaullist candidate.
- New all-time high for the far-right, but a rather modest progression given how high it was in the polls a few months/years ago (between 25 and 30%). They failed to be first in the second round, they're still isolated with no ally and a sacred union against them... no perspective. They may not even have reached the second round without Fillon's scandals...
- Historical failure of the governmental right, not represented in the second round for the first time since the beginning of the Vth Republic (Giscard d'Estaing had been minister under gaullist governments, so he counts as governmental right, even if he targetted the centre in 1974).
- Historical collapse of the social-democracy, violently PASOKified. In 5 years the PS lost 78% of its electorate since 2012. Hamon barely did more than the dying SFIO in 1969, which ended with 5,01% before being reborn into the modern PS. This is the end of the parti d'Épinay [location of the founding congress of the PS in 1971], i. e. Mitterrand's synthesis within the left which allowed him to win in 1981 and the PS to dominate the French left for 45 years.
- Historical score of the radical left, unseen before 1969 and the communist candidate scoring 21,27%.
- Dupont-Aignan, who left the governmental right 10 years ago, triples his score. Another sign of decomposition within the right. For the UMP-LR, he will be seen as the traitor who prevented Fillon from reaching the second round.
As usual everyone will be hypnotized with the FN, but given the situation they failed. Le Pen's campaign was bad, her themes were not that much discussed during the campaign, and they proved themselves incapable of appearing under a new light. They're just the useful idiots of the statu quo, the dreamed comfortable devil to auto-win the second round and kill any perspective of change. She will gain maybe 3-4 millions of votes in the second round, will claim that it was a great win and go back to being useless. Macron should win without any glory in an ocean of abstention. The hashtag #SansMoiLe7Mai [literally: without me on May the 7th] is trending top since the announce of the results. We'll be millions to stay home because voting for the cause to fight the consequence makes no sense.
Should also note that Mélenchon's campaign is one the reasons the FN did not do as best as they could have hoped. He brought back some of the youth and workers which could have voted for the FN. The radical left was 7 points behind the far-right in 2012, now it's just 2 points. That's good news.
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If I were french, I would probably have voted Hamon, even if he had 0 chance of winning. Melenchon simply has some things I cannot support. I could live with Macron.
The whole appeal to communism spiel that Melenchon does and his insistance that Europe is bad, and the need for a 6th republic is just singularly unattractive to me. He's a more radical version of the SP in the Netherlands, and I have never been able to stomach them either, even when I agree with many of their points.
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On April 24 2017 17:00 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 15:33 OtherWorld wrote:
^Unless some people in her party manage to get her head. I mean, with her line, the FN is clearly hitting a glass ceiling. In my opinion, the only reason the FN is where it is at the moment is because of her, and more precisely because her last name is Le Pen. Remove Le Pen from the FN and it likely becomes a fringe party once more, or starts to dwindle in popularity.
i think quite the contrary, we should feel blessed that the front has someone with no charisma and can't even hold a debate for more than 2 minutes without being thrown away like marine le pen
she's one of the main reason the FN isn't going further
and yeah french internet is quite hilarous today since melenchon supporters are the loudest over there
they won the meme war, but not the vote :>
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On April 24 2017 20:06 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 17:00 Spaylz wrote:On April 24 2017 15:33 OtherWorld wrote:
^Unless some people in her party manage to get her head. I mean, with her line, the FN is clearly hitting a glass ceiling. In my opinion, the only reason the FN is where it is at the moment is because of her, and more precisely because her last name is Le Pen. Remove Le Pen from the FN and it likely becomes a fringe party once more, or starts to dwindle in popularity. i think quite the contrary, we should feel blessed that the front has someone with no charisma and can't even hold a debate for more than 2 minutes without being thrown away like marine le pen she's one of the main reason the FN isn't going further and yeah french internet is quite hilarous today since melenchon supporters are the loudest over there they won the meme war, but not the vote :>
I did say it was because of her last name. Marine lacks the charisma and speaking talents her father had. She's not eloquent, she is seemingly poor at thinking on her feet and it doesn't help that she basically sounds like her father in a woman's body, but that's more on the mean side.
My opinion was that if the FN was around with similar policies and a more charismatic leader who did not have the Le Pen name, it would still not be as popular. We might never know though, I suspect they intend on keeping the line ruling the party for a while.
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On April 24 2017 19:09 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Mélenchon's reaction confirming I made a mistake voting for him again.
I can't stand the guy, I spend every time five years hating him, and every time, 15 minutes before voting, I change my mind and go for him anyway. Then I regret and everything he does from there makes it clear I fucking well should.
Thanks for the sacrifice man.
On April 24 2017 19:30 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 18:24 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 13:04 Spaylz wrote:
I find Mélenchon's reaction to be extremely distasteful. The behavior he showed, the contempt and disdain for those who don't share in his values, is one of the reasons why I didn't want to vote for him. The man is too brazen for his own good; or anybody's. ?? What reaction? Of course Mélenchon's voters are mad about Hamon, he made us lose. He had an historic opportunity, but he preferred to save the money of the PS rather than let the left access the second round. Hamon had zero chances to reach the second round. Everyone knew it. Voting Hamon was voting Macron. No one could seriously ignore it. You should of course ignore the comments of Mélenchon's supporters, since their disappoinment and the rancor towards the PS will make them write fairly horrific and outrageous things. But I hope that Hamon voters (like you if I remember correctly?) are ready to face the heavy consequences of their choice. That reaction. That's what I find distasteful. The man refuses to concede, he refuses to endorse (which is considered the gentleman thing to do). He rants about "mediacrates" and "oligarchs"; you see where I'm going with this. He lacked dignity and showed his true colours, I agree with the above poster. It was a reason why I didn't vote for him, and I'm glad I trusted my instincts. I am comforted in my opinion that Mélenchon would have been a disaster on the international scale. And you, yourself, have perfectly illustrated what I stated in my previous posts. You are seemingly incapable of having a healthy argument with someone whose opinion differs from yours. I voted Hamon (or would have, it turns out my vote by proxy paperwork didn't go through because the local townhall people lost it... but that's another topic), and you can't stomach that apparently. I "robbed" your candidate of his win. So now you feel obligated to spit on me and "threaten" me with "heavy consequences" that I must face. Ridiculous. Learn to respect other people's views, please. Learn to disagree with others in a healthy fashion. Lastly, I don't think one should ignore a candidate's voter, no matter who they are. Those who vote for Le Pen have reasons to do so, it might do us some good to at least try and hear them out. And inversely, if Mélenchon's voters misbehave, it should be noted. Especially when Mélenchon himself acts like such a sore loser.
1) Yes, of course he's right that oligarchs and mediacrats rejoiced. Didn't you notice that Macron was their candidate? And that they wanted Macron vs Le Pen to auto-win in the second round and keep governing against most of the country? There's no majority in this country for more neoliberalism, yet now he gets to apply this because “me or the chaos” referendum in the second round.
2) He didn't refuse to concede lol, he wanted to wait the definite results because early estimations could be as wrong as 1-2 points in 2012. Thus in a tight race it could make sense to wait a bit. Also he could have ended third with 20%, which is a different symbol. Whatever.
3) Funny. The same people who spent their time depicting him as an autocrat are now mad at him because he wants to consult his base before making any move. Not a voice from a conscious left-wing voter will go to Le Pen anyway, and Macron is currently 25 points ahead, so what's the problem? It's not like it was a matter of life and death to speak yesterday. Mélenchon is the one who did the most to fight Le Pen in 2012 and 2017, this trial is obscene. He even went to her goddamn den to fight her in 2012; it's because of this that she was not elected in the législatives. He fought the far-right during his whole life. Meanwhile the paper antifas near the centre are the very reason why she's so high. Jesus the irony...
4) The threat is not in my words, but in Macron's program. If you voted Hamon it means you're supposed to care about social justice, ecology and democracy, right? Then just see what Macron will do if he gets a majority.
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On April 24 2017 20:18 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 19:09 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Mélenchon's reaction confirming I made a mistake voting for him again.
I can't stand the guy, I spend every time five years hating him, and every time, 15 minutes before voting, I change my mind and go for him anyway. Then I regret and everything he does from there makes it clear I fucking well should. Thanks for the sacrifice man. Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 19:30 Spaylz wrote:On April 24 2017 18:24 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 13:04 Spaylz wrote:
I find Mélenchon's reaction to be extremely distasteful. The behavior he showed, the contempt and disdain for those who don't share in his values, is one of the reasons why I didn't want to vote for him. The man is too brazen for his own good; or anybody's. ?? What reaction? Of course Mélenchon's voters are mad about Hamon, he made us lose. He had an historic opportunity, but he preferred to save the money of the PS rather than let the left access the second round. Hamon had zero chances to reach the second round. Everyone knew it. Voting Hamon was voting Macron. No one could seriously ignore it. You should of course ignore the comments of Mélenchon's supporters, since their disappoinment and the rancor towards the PS will make them write fairly horrific and outrageous things. But I hope that Hamon voters (like you if I remember correctly?) are ready to face the heavy consequences of their choice. That reaction. That's what I find distasteful. The man refuses to concede, he refuses to endorse (which is considered the gentleman thing to do). He rants about "mediacrates" and "oligarchs"; you see where I'm going with this. He lacked dignity and showed his true colours, I agree with the above poster. It was a reason why I didn't vote for him, and I'm glad I trusted my instincts. I am comforted in my opinion that Mélenchon would have been a disaster on the international scale. And you, yourself, have perfectly illustrated what I stated in my previous posts. You are seemingly incapable of having a healthy argument with someone whose opinion differs from yours. I voted Hamon (or would have, it turns out my vote by proxy paperwork didn't go through because the local townhall people lost it... but that's another topic), and you can't stomach that apparently. I "robbed" your candidate of his win. So now you feel obligated to spit on me and "threaten" me with "heavy consequences" that I must face. Ridiculous. Learn to respect other people's views, please. Learn to disagree with others in a healthy fashion. Lastly, I don't think one should ignore a candidate's voter, no matter who they are. Those who vote for Le Pen have reasons to do so, it might do us some good to at least try and hear them out. And inversely, if Mélenchon's voters misbehave, it should be noted. Especially when Mélenchon himself acts like such a sore loser. 1) Yes, of course he's right that oligarchs and mediacrats rejoiced. Didn't you notice that Macron was their candidate? And that they wanted Macron vs Le Pen to auto-win in the second round and keep governing against most of the country? There's no majority in this country for more neoliberalism, yet now he gets to apply this because “me or the chaos” referendum in the second round. 2) He didn't refuse to concede lol, he wanted to wait the definite results because early estimations could be as wrong as 1-2 points in 2012. Thus in a tight race it could make sense to wait a bit. Also he could have ended third with 20%, which is a different symbol. Whatever. 3) Funny. The same people who spent their time depicting him as an autocrat are now mad at him because he wants to consult his base before making any move. Not a voice from a conscious left-wing voter will go to Le Pen anyway, and Macron is currently 25 points ahead, so what's the problem? It's not like it was a matter of life and death to speak yesterday. Mélenchon is the one who did the most to fight Le Pen in 2012 and 2017, this trial is obscene. He even went to her goddamn den to fight her in 2012; it's because of this that she was not elected in the législatives. He fought the far-right during his whole life. Meanwhile the paper antifas near the centre are the very reason why she's so high. Jesus the irony... 4) The threat is not in my words, but in Macron's program. If you voted Hamon it means you're supposed to care about social justice, ecology and democracy, right? Then just see what Macron will do if he gets a majority.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy about a second round with Macron and Le Pen. Macron's program, while not entirely disgusting, is all around pretty meh to me. There's some good and bad ideas, but it does not focus enough on the environment and more.
The reason I (would have) voted Hamon is because I find his ideas most interesting. He had a clear focus on the well-being of the people going into the future, had a picture to start pulling out of the fuel industry by 2025, and of course universal income. The overall tone of his program was more daring and experimental than most, in a way which resonated with my own views. And he was pro-EU and Russia-sceptical, which I am too. Of course it wasn't all roses either, his program was pretty much non-existent on anything regarding the cost of labor, entrepeneurship and anything regarding dynamism with the economy. He also had many vague areas, but nonetheless he was the candidate I liked the most.
As for your other points, I consider Mélenchon's claim of consulting his base a thinly veiled contestation of the results. Mostly due to the other things he says in his speech. It's one thing to be angry that you've lost because you genuinely believed your message was the right one for France, it's another to be all bitter about it and go down swinging in an attempt to smear everybody else. Like I said, it is undignified. Even Fillon was able to muster up some good deal of dignity in his concession speech. I simply think this attitude is not that of a good leader, and he's been pretty consistently acting this way for ten years now.
And last of all, this categorizing and labeling of people is what I am calling to. The "oligarchs", "mediacrates" etc. getting their way because of their candidate. The statistics shown earlier in the thread speak for themselves: Macron isn't some man descended from financial heaven and puppeteered by the Illuminatii King or something, he's a banker-turned-politician who ran a smart, albeit disgusting (from my point of view) marketing-political campaign. His journey is certainly an interesting one, but auto-labeling anyone who dares vote for him as an oligarchy supporter and dismissing them in such fashion is, again, part of the problem France as a whole is facing. It's like some sort of extreme political tunnel vision; my way or the highway.
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I love people who bitch about ecology in France. due to nuclear power we have the lowest carbon out of all developed nations. in terms of ecology we're right up there
to me macron is hollande 2.0, doesn't even have majority so won't be able to do shit. france wilk stagnate for the next 5 years.
FN has been working for yearst to humanize their party, even though they're still racist shits. they've worked on that to get more people to abstain, not get more people to vote for them. abstaining is basically voting for them, it's a pointless protest vote where you put yourown crappy ego before the good on france.
ha! melenshit is the epitome of that. would rather fuck over millions of people than not because no one likes him. fuck him
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if i were Putin, i'd conjure up an accident involving Le Pen, replace her with a more charismatic puppet then win the whole thing now.
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The FN pretty much is Le Pen at the moment? How can you think that replacing her could be helpfull at all?
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On April 24 2017 22:42 Velr wrote:
The FN pretty much is Le Pen at the moment? How can you think that replacing her could be helpfull at all? read the posts above; people say LePen is holding FN down(on one side; on the other, FN holds itself down but at least you'd get rid of half of the problem).
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On April 24 2017 20:35 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 20:18 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 19:09 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Mélenchon's reaction confirming I made a mistake voting for him again.
I can't stand the guy, I spend every time five years hating him, and every time, 15 minutes before voting, I change my mind and go for him anyway. Then I regret and everything he does from there makes it clear I fucking well should. Thanks for the sacrifice man. On April 24 2017 19:30 Spaylz wrote:On April 24 2017 18:24 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 13:04 Spaylz wrote:
I find Mélenchon's reaction to be extremely distasteful. The behavior he showed, the contempt and disdain for those who don't share in his values, is one of the reasons why I didn't want to vote for him. The man is too brazen for his own good; or anybody's. ?? What reaction? Of course Mélenchon's voters are mad about Hamon, he made us lose. He had an historic opportunity, but he preferred to save the money of the PS rather than let the left access the second round. Hamon had zero chances to reach the second round. Everyone knew it. Voting Hamon was voting Macron. No one could seriously ignore it. You should of course ignore the comments of Mélenchon's supporters, since their disappoinment and the rancor towards the PS will make them write fairly horrific and outrageous things. But I hope that Hamon voters (like you if I remember correctly?) are ready to face the heavy consequences of their choice. That reaction. That's what I find distasteful. The man refuses to concede, he refuses to endorse (which is considered the gentleman thing to do). He rants about "mediacrates" and "oligarchs"; you see where I'm going with this. He lacked dignity and showed his true colours, I agree with the above poster. It was a reason why I didn't vote for him, and I'm glad I trusted my instincts. I am comforted in my opinion that Mélenchon would have been a disaster on the international scale. And you, yourself, have perfectly illustrated what I stated in my previous posts. You are seemingly incapable of having a healthy argument with someone whose opinion differs from yours. I voted Hamon (or would have, it turns out my vote by proxy paperwork didn't go through because the local townhall people lost it... but that's another topic), and you can't stomach that apparently. I "robbed" your candidate of his win. So now you feel obligated to spit on me and "threaten" me with "heavy consequences" that I must face. Ridiculous. Learn to respect other people's views, please. Learn to disagree with others in a healthy fashion. Lastly, I don't think one should ignore a candidate's voter, no matter who they are. Those who vote for Le Pen have reasons to do so, it might do us some good to at least try and hear them out. And inversely, if Mélenchon's voters misbehave, it should be noted. Especially when Mélenchon himself acts like such a sore loser. 1) Yes, of course he's right that oligarchs and mediacrats rejoiced. Didn't you notice that Macron was their candidate? And that they wanted Macron vs Le Pen to auto-win in the second round and keep governing against most of the country? There's no majority in this country for more neoliberalism, yet now he gets to apply this because “me or the chaos” referendum in the second round. 2) He didn't refuse to concede lol, he wanted to wait the definite results because early estimations could be as wrong as 1-2 points in 2012. Thus in a tight race it could make sense to wait a bit. Also he could have ended third with 20%, which is a different symbol. Whatever. 3) Funny. The same people who spent their time depicting him as an autocrat are now mad at him because he wants to consult his base before making any move. Not a voice from a conscious left-wing voter will go to Le Pen anyway, and Macron is currently 25 points ahead, so what's the problem? It's not like it was a matter of life and death to speak yesterday. Mélenchon is the one who did the most to fight Le Pen in 2012 and 2017, this trial is obscene. He even went to her goddamn den to fight her in 2012; it's because of this that she was not elected in the législatives. He fought the far-right during his whole life. Meanwhile the paper antifas near the centre are the very reason why she's so high. Jesus the irony... 4) The threat is not in my words, but in Macron's program. If you voted Hamon it means you're supposed to care about social justice, ecology and democracy, right? Then just see what Macron will do if he gets a majority. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy about a second round with Macron and Le Pen. Macron's program, while not entirely disgusting, is all around pretty meh to me. There's some good and bad ideas, but it does not focus enough on the environment and more. The reason I (would have) voted Hamon is because I find his ideas most interesting. He had a clear focus on the well-being of the people going into the future, had a picture to start pulling out of the fuel industry by 2025, and of course universal income. The overall tone of his program was more daring and experimental than most, in a way which resonated with my own views. And he was pro-EU and Russia-sceptical, which I am too. Of course it wasn't all roses either, his program was pretty much non-existent on anything regarding the cost of labor, entrepeneurship and anything regarding dynamism with the economy. He also had many vague areas, but nonetheless he was the candidate I liked the most. As for your other points, I consider Mélenchon's claim of consulting his base a thinly veiled contestation of the results. Mostly due to the other things he says in his speech. It's one thing to be angry that you've lost because you genuinely believed your message was the right one for France, it's another to be all bitter about it and go down swinging in an attempt to smear everybody else. Like I said, it is undignified. Even Fillon was able to muster up some good deal of dignity in his concession speech. I simply think this attitude is not that of a good leader, and he's been pretty consistently acting this way for ten years now. And last of all, this categorizing and labeling of people is what I am calling to. The "oligarchs", "mediacrates" etc. getting their way because of their candidate. The statistics shown earlier in the thread speak for themselves: Macron isn't some man descended from financial heaven and puppeteered by the Illuminatii King or something, he's a banker-turned-politician who ran a smart, albeit disgusting (from my point of view) marketing-political campaign. His journey is certainly an interesting one, but auto-labeling anyone who dares vote for him as an oligarchy supporter and dismissing them in such fashion is, again, part of the problem France as a whole is facing. It's like some sort of extreme political tunnel vision; my way or the highway.
Campaigning against finance, then calling to vote for its direct emissary, that would be a shame, there is no more political compromise to do with those kind of ppl. What do you want? Protecting the republic? Macron will continue austerity, public hospital will have even less staff, school less teachers, woker rights will be sacrified in the autel of "competitivity and flexibility", the social fabric will be (even more) shredded.
And Hamont is from the PS, a party created by a collaborationist who has never abandonned his friendship with the like of Rene Bousquet, this purpose of the party was not public good but just to win the election from himself and this is still the point : we go to the ps to have a good carrier and stole the state coffers with a bit of public prestige. At least, some ppl seem to have slightly more conviction at the ump/republicain. Hamon is like Hollande: an adept of the compromis backed by the official of his party, do you forget the speech at the Bourget? It was good but 100% lies, only the bobo ecolo who are like that because it looks good and the ones who are directly related to the PS have real interest to vote for him and with his result, seems like it is not quite a lot. And the universal revenue is disturbing, on paper and on a social perspective, it is hard to fully argue against but still, it looks like more a rustine who does not emancipate ppl, to my view, this kind be used in very "last resort situation', moreover, there are still a lot of social protection which will be most likely erased by the revenue, yeah, it seems really delicate to applicate and it is quite sure that Hamon never attend to applicate it, it was just a move to get elected exactly like the bourget' speech.Ah and I voted Hollande in the 2nd turn, I don't really regreat it because nowadays, the PS and the ecolo are at 6% and this is a good thing but still, even with all my distrust toward the PS, I felt like I was fouled, this is laughable. :D
All in all, the different between him and Macron is that he does not come directly from finance and has not been backed by the millionaires and billionaires of the country, that changes quite a lot actually, I will not think about voting Lepen against him or against Fillon, sarko, Hollande ect but against the embodiment of Wall Street? Hard to tell, Lepen will not pass anyway but seeing her opposition as a republican front is totally absurd and get me quite angry way more than the defeat of Melenchon which was quite expected, I am already very happy to see his results and the ones of the PS, anyway both of Lepen and Macron will critically damage the country.
And no need of an illuminati king to explain the vision of thedwf that u sum up quite badly, Macron is banker turned politician assisted by most of the financial world which legitemitely sees him as an ally, just read the basics interests of each, if I was very rich and wanted to have even more, voting for him would most likely be the good call.
So Melenchon is perfectly right, oligarq and media are pretty happy with this result and he does not insult the majority of Macron's electorate, just like saying "Melenshit" does not insult his electorate either. But, hey, you are not an "extremist" so not quite used to this kind of criticizism, I bet you will have in the future.
The ones who voted Macron are most likely in very short :
_ ppl who have direct interest in the current economic system, let's say upper class
_ others who have been satured of info and image of Macron, I know a guy who finally vote for him just because he saw him everywhere and has little political culture, that does not mean he should not vote or that he is an idiot, just that he has other preocupations, too bad.
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On April 24 2017 20:35 Spaylz wrote:
And last of all, this categorizing and labeling of people is what I am calling to. The "oligarchs", "mediacrates" etc. getting their way because of their candidate. The statistics shown earlier in the thread speak for themselves: Macron isn't some man descended from financial heaven and puppeteered by the Illuminatii King or something, he's a banker-turned-politician who ran a smart, albeit disgusting (from my point of view) marketing-political campaign. His journey is certainly an interesting one, but auto-labeling anyone who dares vote for him as an oligarchy supporter and dismissing them in such fashion is, again, part of the problem France as a whole is facing. It's like some sort of extreme political tunnel vision; my way or the highway.
To play devil's advocate a little bit, the left is also putting similar labels on the FN as a whole. Regardless of whether you think it's true or not, labeling someone with a different opinion than you as "the enemy of the republic" is the same kind of behavior from the far-right.
Even if the allegations were true, if you want to stop putting labels on people, all sides have to do it.
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On April 25 2017 00:14 HereBeDragons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 20:35 Spaylz wrote:
And last of all, this categorizing and labeling of people is what I am calling to. The "oligarchs", "mediacrates" etc. getting their way because of their candidate. The statistics shown earlier in the thread speak for themselves: Macron isn't some man descended from financial heaven and puppeteered by the Illuminatii King or something, he's a banker-turned-politician who ran a smart, albeit disgusting (from my point of view) marketing-political campaign. His journey is certainly an interesting one, but auto-labeling anyone who dares vote for him as an oligarchy supporter and dismissing them in such fashion is, again, part of the problem France as a whole is facing. It's like some sort of extreme political tunnel vision; my way or the highway. To play devil's advocate a little bit, the left is also putting similar labels on the FN as a whole. Regardless of whether you think it's true or not, labeling someone with a different opinion than you as "the enemy of the republic" is the same kind of behavior from the far-right. Even if the allegations were true, if you want to stop putting labels on people, all sides have to do it.
Yeah, because what people want is more political correctness.
"Hey, don't say that. You may hurt the feelings of a fascist asshole."
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hollande just stated that all of the republican and everyone should vote against the FN
too bad he doesn't realize he's doing wonder for them by doing that :>
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EPT
