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European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 591

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
November 20 2016 20:39 GMT
#11801
just how fillon did to have 42,8% ? even lemaire and poisson are more legit than this guy

there is something i don't understand, did i get baited into the juppé mania ?
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
November 20 2016 20:41 GMT
#11802
On November 21 2016 05:39 Makro wrote:
just how fillon did to have 42,8% ? even lemaire and poisson are more legit than this guy

there is something i don't understand, did i get baited into the juppé mania ?

You got baited into the everything but Marine mania.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
November 20 2016 20:42 GMT
#11803
On November 21 2016 05:41 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2016 05:39 Makro wrote:
just how fillon did to have 42,8% ? even lemaire and poisson are more legit than this guy

there is something i don't understand, did i get baited into the juppé mania ?

You got baited into the everything but Marine mania.

this one goes for years, i'm used to it now
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
November 20 2016 20:43 GMT
#11804
On November 21 2016 05:39 Makro wrote:
just how fillon did to have 42,8% ? even lemaire and poisson are more legit than this guy

there is something i don't understand, did i get baited into the juppé mania ?

Medias oversold Juppé vs Sarkozy, but Sarkozy is obviously the guy who lost and didn't do enough during his mandate (from a right-winger point of view); Juppé is seen as too moderate (lol) for some reason; so Fillon, the most hardcore, is seen as the legitimate recourse. It's fairly logical if you think from a right perspective; you punish the loser and you run away from the favourite medias overhyped.
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2755 Posts
November 20 2016 20:50 GMT
#11805
On November 21 2016 05:35 Nyxisto wrote:
If that's true I think it's another indication that moderate politicians should not try to pursue populists in their rhetoric. It didn't work well for Cameron and it doesn't seem to work in France.


Ahah, the only guy who has presented himself as moderate is Juppé and this result is a total disaster. He has a fair advance in the sondage since months, the support of the press and was moderate in every fields and still, he gets totally crushed by the "third man of the campaign".
Fillon managed to distinguish himself by his rhetoric toward Islam, Bachar and Putin. With these axes, he manages to show that he was "anti elite" even if that is a joke.
The fact a large portion of people have a total hate for the intellectual bubble shows clearly the inverse of what you said, you just have to be disliked by those clowns to have more votes.
Making like you are for the statu quo is an ineffective strategy, ppl want sth else than this shitty world.
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
November 20 2016 20:54 GMT
#11806
More seriously, Fillon has huge support from "La manif pour tous" because he is a hard christian and whatnot.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
November 20 2016 20:56 GMT
#11807
Sarkozy is 6 points behind Juppé with 72% of the votes counted, seems over for him hahahaha
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
November 20 2016 20:58 GMT
#11808
On November 20 2016 22:44 xM(Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2016 22:08 Big J wrote:
On November 20 2016 22:03 xM(Z wrote:
On November 20 2016 21:49 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 20 2016 21:24 xM(Z wrote:
On November 20 2016 19:52 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
On November 20 2016 17:58 xM(Z wrote:
i'd split EU based on people(germanic people, romance people, slavic people + minorities) being totally oblivious to the economic realities:
- group germans with nordics(Denmark, Norway and so on);
- France with Spain, Portugal, Italy, Romania, Greece (because of Thracia); (lol, i mean seriously, look at that whole romance lineage being totally fucked now; France maybe not economically but more socially and politically);
- then you'd have the slavs grouped with the russians;
(bulgarians = minorities, go to greeks/vlachs(eastern romance); magyars = minorities, go to germans, slavs, romance; Poland split between germans and slavs; Ukraine dissolved);
- tatars, turkick and other minorities based on local/regional communities.

What is this? Is this a joke? This is not how you make a joke.
You just decided to just divide countries up without rhyme or reason. Where is UK? Norway isn't part of EU. Countries next to Romania count as minorities or entirely dissolved. Poland split as if invaded as in WW2. Some groups aren't even geographically contingent. What is this fantasy and why are you dividing up countries anyways? What is this bullshit and obsession with lineage?
countries are concepts, taught languages are concepts(spoken languages/dialects are real), people(their lineage) is real(real = it has implications above and beyond self).
a divide based on people(their history/genetics) would have deep political/social/cultural implications.
you'd have germans living under democracy/federalism, romance people would use republics/socialism and slavs dictatorships because(i would argue) that is what people are historically used to.
in this context, i don't believe in the one size fits all motto that EU is pushing at the moment; sure it may last for a while but eventually it's bound to fall. its been rising and falling since BC times.

and in the same way you're trying to make neat little groups like that you're fundamentally against what you yourself are talking about.
You say that one size doesn't just fit all so you go ahead an split up poland because you realize that there might be countries that don't fully belong into one group or the other based on what you consider important. They might have sizeable portions of population that would rather align with one while others would want to align with something else for whatever the reason.

So in that sense I fundamentally disagree with you. Yes one size doesn't just fit all but we've managed to not dissolve modern nations just because West Germany has a somewhat different take on things as East Germany might have. And I can tell you that despite that being the case (close to) noone here would want Germany to split apart again.
I don't really see what makes a normal state any different and immune to this if you truly believe what you just said. Especially if we're considering that this isn't some kind of set-theory and differences of opinion are going to happen in some kind of gradient
i don't make them, they are that way. the evolution made them that way. i'm merely (re)categorizing them based on objective measurable <metrics>.


If you are so sure about the bullshit your wrote, why would you have to push for that, if it happens anyways? It's the old lie of the extreme right that they are merely doing what happens anyways that you are rehasing, when in fact things happen because people - in this case extremist right-wingers - make them happen.

That is what liberalism and the European Union stand to fight against at their core.
i don't know what your point is(what would "happen anyway"?+ Show Spoiler +
i'll argue that if confined, the sides will alternate but not unify until a very long time passes, time in which they'll all be miserable(history based assumption)
) so if you want to make one with an immediate practicability, i'm all ears.
from where i'm sitting your point looks like this: if one speaks english then he must be american or british.
EX: you take a polish dude+ Show Spoiler +
sorry, but it happened to be about poles
, send him to US, teach him the language, the culture(what ever you think that is) and by your logic he is an american. by my logic, i don't care how he calls himself, he will carry the genetic predispositions of his ancestry not those of americans.

i give no value to nurture, subscribe to the principle of least resistance/of least effort and believe that mathematical and theoretical biology will give an answer to ... well, let's call them peoples deterministic inclinations.


If you raise a Polish child in America he's an American. I mean, there are countries with more ethnic identities than the States, but that's how it works here. It's the whole point.

And you do get that on a genetic level even the argument re: Europe is full of holes. Your tripartite division is based on late 19th early 20th C racist theories, not anything to do with history or reality.
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
November 20 2016 20:58 GMT
#11809
so the second biggest atlantist is gonna become president, he's gonna sell the rest of that french cheap gold
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
November 20 2016 20:59 GMT
#11810
On November 21 2016 05:58 Makro wrote:
so the second biggest atlantist is gonna become president, he's gonna sell the rest of that french cheap gold

?? Fillon will win the second round.
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
November 20 2016 21:02 GMT
#11811
On November 21 2016 05:59 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2016 05:58 Makro wrote:
so the second biggest atlantist is gonna become president, he's gonna sell the rest of that french cheap gold

?? Fillon will win the second round.

yea that's what i said
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2755 Posts
November 20 2016 21:02 GMT
#11812
On November 21 2016 05:54 WhiteDog wrote:
More seriously, Fillon has huge support from "La manif pour tous" because he is a hard christian and whatnot.


Well, he has change his mind on the mariage pour tous, I could underestimate the christian vote tho.
Anyway, I don't see Fillon winning vs Lepen, he is too close of her rhetoric and this seems to be her domain.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
November 20 2016 21:03 GMT
#11813
On November 21 2016 05:50 stilt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2016 05:35 Nyxisto wrote:
If that's true I think it's another indication that moderate politicians should not try to pursue populists in their rhetoric. It didn't work well for Cameron and it doesn't seem to work in France.


Ahah, the only guy who has presented himself as moderate is Juppé and this result is a total disaster. He has a fair advance in the sondage since months, the support of the press and was moderate in every fields and still, he gets totally crushed by the "third man of the campaign".
Fillon managed to distinguish himself by his rhetoric toward Islam, Bachar and Putin. With these axes, he manages to show that he was "anti elite" even if that is a joke.
The fact a large portion of people have a total hate for the intellectual bubble shows clearly the inverse of what you said, you just have to be disliked by those clowns to have more votes.
Making like you are for the statu quo is an ineffective strategy, ppl want sth else than this shitty world.


Fillon seems like a hardline conservative, not a populist. Sarkozy seemed to be the person who went after FN votes the hardest and he clearly tanked completely.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
November 20 2016 21:05 GMT
#11814
On November 21 2016 06:02 Makro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2016 05:59 TheDwf wrote:
On November 21 2016 05:58 Makro wrote:
so the second biggest atlantist is gonna become president, he's gonna sell the rest of that french cheap gold

?? Fillon will win the second round.

yea that's what i said

OK, never mind.

This also means that we'll get a thatcherian purge, I wonder if he'll manage to beat his own record regarding the amount of protestors in the streets. After all, there's clearly a pattern: 2003, 2010, 2017...
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
November 20 2016 21:07 GMT
#11815
fillon - lepen second round, thousand of people protesting in the street to force people to vote for fillon, great entertainment incoming
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2755 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-20 21:11:57
November 20 2016 21:09 GMT
#11816
On November 21 2016 06:03 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2016 05:50 stilt wrote:
On November 21 2016 05:35 Nyxisto wrote:
If that's true I think it's another indication that moderate politicians should not try to pursue populists in their rhetoric. It didn't work well for Cameron and it doesn't seem to work in France.


Ahah, the only guy who has presented himself as moderate is Juppé and this result is a total disaster. He has a fair advance in the sondage since months, the support of the press and was moderate in every fields and still, he gets totally crushed by the "third man of the campaign".
Fillon managed to distinguish himself by his rhetoric toward Islam, Bachar and Putin. With these axes, he manages to show that he was "anti elite" even if that is a joke.
The fact a large portion of people have a total hate for the intellectual bubble shows clearly the inverse of what you said, you just have to be disliked by those clowns to have more votes.
Making like you are for the statu quo is an ineffective strategy, ppl want sth else than this shitty world.


Fillon seems like a hardline conservative, not a populist. Sarkozy seemed to be the person who went after FN votes the hardest and he clearly tanked completely.


Not lately, Fillon has claimes that a reconciliation with Russia was necessary, that Bachar must stay in power, that the elite was deconnected, i have no idea what he said about Islam topics but I guess it was mot radical than others as he is presented as more radicals in every subjects. And finaly, his economic program is the roughest. So rough that seems impossible to do, dereasonnable, "populist" even if I hate the word.
Anyway, Sarko is done, I am not even happy. Oh, he claims he supports Fillon, with his 20%, Juppe is probably done, ok, I sincerely see Lepen winning the cake.
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
November 20 2016 21:10 GMT
#11817
Sarkozy eliminated will make me smile no matter what, but I'm really happy to see Copé's score. Thanks for the laughs !
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
November 20 2016 21:10 GMT
#11818
Sarkozy recognized his defeat and chose Fillon for the second round.
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
November 20 2016 21:17 GMT
#11819
This election is already funny.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
November 20 2016 21:19 GMT
#11820
On November 21 2016 06:02 stilt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2016 05:54 WhiteDog wrote:
More seriously, Fillon has huge support from "La manif pour tous" because he is a hard christian and whatnot.


Well, he has change his mind on the mariage pour tous, I could underestimate the christian vote tho.
Anyway, I don't see Fillon winning vs Lepen, he is too close of her rhetoric and this seems to be her domain.

Le Pen can't win vs Fillon or Juppé, she has no voters left to gather past the first round...
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