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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
Austria threatens to block acceleration of Turkish EU talks
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-eu-austria-idUSKCN10I0CO?il=0
Austria's foreign minister has threatened to block the expansion of negotiations with Turkey on its accession to the European Union, which could scupper a landmark migration deal between Brussels and Ankara.
Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz's comments, published on Sunday, risk exacerbating a row between Austria and Turkey that flared last week when Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern suggested ending Turkey's EU membership talks altogether because of the country's democratic and economic deficits.
Talks on Turkish accession have made only slow progress since they began in 2005, with just one "chapter" concluded of 35 such policy areas where Turkey must adopt and implement EU rules.
"I have a seat and a vote in the (EU) foreign ministers' council. There the question is whether new negotiation chapters will be opened with Turkey, and I am against it," Kurz said in an interview with Austrian daily Kurier, threatening to block the unanimous agreement required.
The Turkish government's crackdown on followers of a U.S.-based cleric whom it blames for last month's failed coup has strained relations with the 28-nation bloc, which depends on Ankara to restrict the westward flow of migrants.
Turkey has so far lived up to its side of the deal with Brussels to stop illegal migration to Europe via its territory, in return for financial aid, the promise of visa-free travel to much of the bloc and accelerated talks on membership.
Visa-free access has been subject to delays however due to a dispute over Turkish anti-terrorism legislation, which some in Europe see as too broad, and the post-coup crackdown. Kurz said Turkey had not met the conditions for progress to be made.
"The criteria for visa liberalization will not be fulfilled by Turkey. And the requirements for accession talks have not been met," Kurz said.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said on Friday accession talks were "as good as deadlocked" but he rejected calls to halt them entirely saying the bloc needed to think more broadly about how to frame its ties with Ankara.
Austria's centrist coalition government is under pressure from the resurgent anti-immigration Freedom Party, which is running first in opinion polls with support of more than 30 percent and is vehemently opposed to Turkish EU accession.
Kern's Social Democrats and Kurz's conservative People's Party must either work together or face a snap parliamentary election, and Kurz is widely seen as likely to take over as leader of his party before then.
"Turkey has for its part already declared that it does not want to fulfill all the criteria. As a result the migration deal will not last," Kurz told tabloid newspaper Oesterreich.
Interesting that Germany still refuses to completely cancel talks with Turkey, despite the obvious staged coup and rumours of reinstating the death penalty.
Like i said before, either let Turkey join the EU or prepare for a far bigger flood of refugees than you saw last year.You think Erdogan will take refusal well? The guy is a psychopath.
Enjoy.
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On August 07 2016 10:19 SK.Testie wrote:
I thought it was rather serious because it wasn't just lighting a parked car on fire. They stopped a bus, attacked it, and blew it up in the middle of the street.
That's not really a regular occurrence. Though yes, France most definitely has labour riots and protests quite often.
i agree with you, however this event has nothing to do with refugee / recent wave of immigrant, these thug are well known and this kind of shit is (unfortunately) usual here, that's a very french problem
the future doesn't look bright indeed
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On August 07 2016 18:00 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2016 17:02 Elroi wrote:
Sure it is a bad thing and they should be punished. I dont think anyone is arguing against that. but to publish it here as a one of the major news stories in europe this week is absurd and only serves to narrow the the already narrow perspective of extremists like testie even more.
If he were an extremist zionist instead of a racist he would only post stories of violance comitted or seemingly commited by palestinians, if he were a left wing activist he would only see stories about police brutality etc. You call testie an extremist yet your views are just as extreme but on the other side of the argument, i find it astonishing how people like you try to downplay the current events that's going on all around Europe at the moment. You could just educate yourself and see whats going on but no, you refuse to leave that little bubble of yours. Some of the comments from yours lately are pretty far left you even got in the stereotypical "racist" insult, hard to argue with facts isn't it? Better just call him a racist! The left is just as bad as the right in in this regard, both uses 1 of 2 extremes, downplaying it can be seen just as bad as over exaggerating it, a lot of people cant conceive there is middleground.
To downplay the problems with radical islam and terrorism is indeed dangerous and bad and I dont think I have ever done that (actually the contrary if you read my posts), but that is not an argument to blow every little piece of news out of proportions. Testie and many others show a behavior that I think is a sign of extremism and that is basically using any insignificant anecdote to conflate their consperacy theories about how the world actually works. They will gladly explain away the fact that violent crimes in sweden, the country that has welcomed the highest number of refugees per capita in the west, are in decline and instead focus on some circumstantial evidence that proves the opposit. This radicalism and collective incrimination of muslims will of course only lead to more violence.
My own opinion, in short, is that it puts a great strain on any society to welcome a big number of immigrants at the same time, but that the human cost of letting hundreds of thousands of people die or live in inhuman conditions, as slaves or prisonners, is far greater.
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On August 07 2016 21:06 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2016 18:00 Reaps wrote:On August 07 2016 17:02 Elroi wrote:
Sure it is a bad thing and they should be punished. I dont think anyone is arguing against that. but to publish it here as a one of the major news stories in europe this week is absurd and only serves to narrow the the already narrow perspective of extremists like testie even more.
If he were an extremist zionist instead of a racist he would only post stories of violance comitted or seemingly commited by palestinians, if he were a left wing activist he would only see stories about police brutality etc. You call testie an extremist yet your views are just as extreme but on the other side of the argument, i find it astonishing how people like you try to downplay the current events that's going on all around Europe at the moment. You could just educate yourself and see whats going on but no, you refuse to leave that little bubble of yours. Some of the comments from yours lately are pretty far left you even got in the stereotypical "racist" insult, hard to argue with facts isn't it? Better just call him a racist! The left is just as bad as the right in in this regard, both uses 1 of 2 extremes, downplaying it can be seen just as bad as over exaggerating it, a lot of people cant conceive there is middleground. To downplay the problems with radical islam and terrorism is indeed dangerous and bad and I dont think I have ever done that (actually the contrary if you read my posts), but that is not an argument to blow every little piece of news out of proportions. Testie and many others show a behavior that I think is a sign of extremism and that is basically using any insignificant anecdote to conflate their consperacy theories about how the world actually works. They will gladly explain away the fact that violent crimes in sweden, the country that has welcomed the highest number of refugees per capita in the west, are in decline and instead focus on some circumstantial evidence that proves the opposit. This radicalism and collective incrimination of muslims will of course only lead to more violence.
My own opinion, in short, is that it puts a great strain on any society to welcome a big number of immigrants at the same time, but that the human cost of letting hundreds of thousands of people die or live in inhuman conditions, as slaves or prisonners, is far greater.
I understand your point, the bold part is really what it comes down to, do you risk the consequences of mass immigration from country's with different values than us to help the people that are trying to escape horrible conditions and try and live a better life. There isn't really a right or wrong answer, its simply a matter of opinion as you said.
I just hope people on both sides can accept that it is subjective and just look at the facts.
If you want my opinion i feel like a lot of Islamic values are incompatible with ours and is leading to a lot of horrible stuff happening right now and there is a better way to help the refugee people than just Merkels open borders policy. Keep in mind only around 1 in 5 immigrants are coming from Syria, the rest are coming from places like North Africa, Middle East and Far East.
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On August 07 2016 20:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Austria threatens to block acceleration of Turkish EU talkshttp://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-eu-austria-idUSKCN10I0CO?il=0Show nested quote +Austria's foreign minister has threatened to block the expansion of negotiations with Turkey on its accession to the European Union, which could scupper a landmark migration deal between Brussels and Ankara.
Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz's comments, published on Sunday, risk exacerbating a row between Austria and Turkey that flared last week when Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern suggested ending Turkey's EU membership talks altogether because of the country's democratic and economic deficits.
Talks on Turkish accession have made only slow progress since they began in 2005, with just one "chapter" concluded of 35 such policy areas where Turkey must adopt and implement EU rules.
"I have a seat and a vote in the (EU) foreign ministers' council. There the question is whether new negotiation chapters will be opened with Turkey, and I am against it," Kurz said in an interview with Austrian daily Kurier, threatening to block the unanimous agreement required.
The Turkish government's crackdown on followers of a U.S.-based cleric whom it blames for last month's failed coup has strained relations with the 28-nation bloc, which depends on Ankara to restrict the westward flow of migrants.
Turkey has so far lived up to its side of the deal with Brussels to stop illegal migration to Europe via its territory, in return for financial aid, the promise of visa-free travel to much of the bloc and accelerated talks on membership.
Visa-free access has been subject to delays however due to a dispute over Turkish anti-terrorism legislation, which some in Europe see as too broad, and the post-coup crackdown. Kurz said Turkey had not met the conditions for progress to be made.
"The criteria for visa liberalization will not be fulfilled by Turkey. And the requirements for accession talks have not been met," Kurz said.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said on Friday accession talks were "as good as deadlocked" but he rejected calls to halt them entirely saying the bloc needed to think more broadly about how to frame its ties with Ankara.
Austria's centrist coalition government is under pressure from the resurgent anti-immigration Freedom Party, which is running first in opinion polls with support of more than 30 percent and is vehemently opposed to Turkish EU accession.
Kern's Social Democrats and Kurz's conservative People's Party must either work together or face a snap parliamentary election, and Kurz is widely seen as likely to take over as leader of his party before then.
"Turkey has for its part already declared that it does not want to fulfill all the criteria. As a result the migration deal will not last," Kurz told tabloid newspaper Oesterreich. Interesting that Germany still refuses to completely cancel talks with Turkey, despite the obvious staged coup and rumours of reinstating the death penalty. Like i said before, either let Turkey join the EU or prepare for a far bigger flood of refugees than you saw last year.You think Erdogan will take refusal well? The guy is a psychopath. Enjoy.
Cancelling the talks will only push them towards Moscow, we don't want that.
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On August 07 2016 21:27 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2016 20:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Austria threatens to block acceleration of Turkish EU talkshttp://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-eu-austria-idUSKCN10I0CO?il=0Austria's foreign minister has threatened to block the expansion of negotiations with Turkey on its accession to the European Union, which could scupper a landmark migration deal between Brussels and Ankara.
Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz's comments, published on Sunday, risk exacerbating a row between Austria and Turkey that flared last week when Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern suggested ending Turkey's EU membership talks altogether because of the country's democratic and economic deficits.
Talks on Turkish accession have made only slow progress since they began in 2005, with just one "chapter" concluded of 35 such policy areas where Turkey must adopt and implement EU rules.
"I have a seat and a vote in the (EU) foreign ministers' council. There the question is whether new negotiation chapters will be opened with Turkey, and I am against it," Kurz said in an interview with Austrian daily Kurier, threatening to block the unanimous agreement required.
The Turkish government's crackdown on followers of a U.S.-based cleric whom it blames for last month's failed coup has strained relations with the 28-nation bloc, which depends on Ankara to restrict the westward flow of migrants.
Turkey has so far lived up to its side of the deal with Brussels to stop illegal migration to Europe via its territory, in return for financial aid, the promise of visa-free travel to much of the bloc and accelerated talks on membership.
Visa-free access has been subject to delays however due to a dispute over Turkish anti-terrorism legislation, which some in Europe see as too broad, and the post-coup crackdown. Kurz said Turkey had not met the conditions for progress to be made.
"The criteria for visa liberalization will not be fulfilled by Turkey. And the requirements for accession talks have not been met," Kurz said.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said on Friday accession talks were "as good as deadlocked" but he rejected calls to halt them entirely saying the bloc needed to think more broadly about how to frame its ties with Ankara.
Austria's centrist coalition government is under pressure from the resurgent anti-immigration Freedom Party, which is running first in opinion polls with support of more than 30 percent and is vehemently opposed to Turkish EU accession.
Kern's Social Democrats and Kurz's conservative People's Party must either work together or face a snap parliamentary election, and Kurz is widely seen as likely to take over as leader of his party before then.
"Turkey has for its part already declared that it does not want to fulfill all the criteria. As a result the migration deal will not last," Kurz told tabloid newspaper Oesterreich. Interesting that Germany still refuses to completely cancel talks with Turkey, despite the obvious staged coup and rumours of reinstating the death penalty. Like i said before, either let Turkey join the EU or prepare for a far bigger flood of refugees than you saw last year.You think Erdogan will take refusal well? The guy is a psychopath. Enjoy. Cancelling the talks will only push them towards Moscow, we don't want that.
I agree.
There is nothing to win by not talking to them. If we talk we might make them change their ways. Its a very very slim chance but its better than not doing anything at all.
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Matteo Renzi has never seen himself as a short-term prime minister. Months after he assumed power in 2014 in a daring intra-party coup that would have made Machiavelli proud, Renzi addressed the fact that he was the fourth prime minister Italy had seen in three years.
“I don’t know if it’s a good or a bad thing, but I think that you won’t see any more for a few years,” he told the Observer at the time, smiling. The centre-left leader saw himself – and was widely regarded – as a dynamic force capable of reforming Italy after two decades of sclerotic politics. When his Democratic party crushed the opposition in European elections that year, it seemed that – like Silvio Berlusconi, the former conservative prime minister – Renzi would be around for a while.
Today the future looks considerably less bright, and less assured, for the former mayor of Florence. In a few months, probably in November, Italians will head to the polls to vote in a referendum on a constitutional reform that Renzi says will make it easier to pass legislation by dramatically restricting the powers of the senate, a major source of political gridlock.
But whereas as recently as a few months ago a win for Renzi seemed likely, things are suddenly a great deal more complicated. And when the Italian prime minister contemplates the fate of David Cameron, consigned to political history after his own ill-starred referendum, he must feel distinctly queasy.
Much like Brexit in the UK, the referendum is increasingly being seen as a way for Italians to air their general discontent with the establishment, in large part because Renzi swore that he would leave politics if the referendum did not go his way. If he loses his gamble, the results of the referendum could have vast consequences for Italy and the whole of Europe. A defeat could potentially open the door to a new national election that could see the Eurosceptic, populist Five Star Movement push the Democratic party out of power.
Source
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On August 07 2016 20:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Austria threatens to block acceleration of Turkish EU talkshttp://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-eu-austria-idUSKCN10I0CO?il=0Show nested quote +Austria's foreign minister has threatened to block the expansion of negotiations with Turkey on its accession to the European Union, which could scupper a landmark migration deal between Brussels and Ankara.
Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz's comments, published on Sunday, risk exacerbating a row between Austria and Turkey that flared last week when Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern suggested ending Turkey's EU membership talks altogether because of the country's democratic and economic deficits.
Talks on Turkish accession have made only slow progress since they began in 2005, with just one "chapter" concluded of 35 such policy areas where Turkey must adopt and implement EU rules.
"I have a seat and a vote in the (EU) foreign ministers' council. There the question is whether new negotiation chapters will be opened with Turkey, and I am against it," Kurz said in an interview with Austrian daily Kurier, threatening to block the unanimous agreement required.
The Turkish government's crackdown on followers of a U.S.-based cleric whom it blames for last month's failed coup has strained relations with the 28-nation bloc, which depends on Ankara to restrict the westward flow of migrants.
Turkey has so far lived up to its side of the deal with Brussels to stop illegal migration to Europe via its territory, in return for financial aid, the promise of visa-free travel to much of the bloc and accelerated talks on membership.
Visa-free access has been subject to delays however due to a dispute over Turkish anti-terrorism legislation, which some in Europe see as too broad, and the post-coup crackdown. Kurz said Turkey had not met the conditions for progress to be made.
"The criteria for visa liberalization will not be fulfilled by Turkey. And the requirements for accession talks have not been met," Kurz said.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said on Friday accession talks were "as good as deadlocked" but he rejected calls to halt them entirely saying the bloc needed to think more broadly about how to frame its ties with Ankara.
Austria's centrist coalition government is under pressure from the resurgent anti-immigration Freedom Party, which is running first in opinion polls with support of more than 30 percent and is vehemently opposed to Turkish EU accession.
Kern's Social Democrats and Kurz's conservative People's Party must either work together or face a snap parliamentary election, and Kurz is widely seen as likely to take over as leader of his party before then.
"Turkey has for its part already declared that it does not want to fulfill all the criteria. As a result the migration deal will not last," Kurz told tabloid newspaper Oesterreich. Interesting that Germany still refuses to completely cancel talks with Turkey, despite the obvious staged coup and rumours of reinstating the death penalty. Like i said before, either let Turkey join the EU or prepare for a far bigger flood of refugees than you saw last year.You think Erdogan will take refusal well? The guy is a psychopath. Enjoy.
Not really surprising that the German government is forced to keep Turkey in the loop when there's not even a slight chance of cooperation on the European level to create some comprehensive system to handle refugee streams. They've quite literally run out of other options. Also taking Turkey into the EU isn't really required. Give them free Visas if they desire and that's basically it. Not even really a concession on part of the EU. I don't even think that Turkey itself is genuinely interested in joining the EU any more given the direction they're heading.
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On August 08 2016 05:38 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2016 20:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Austria threatens to block acceleration of Turkish EU talkshttp://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-eu-austria-idUSKCN10I0CO?il=0Austria's foreign minister has threatened to block the expansion of negotiations with Turkey on its accession to the European Union, which could scupper a landmark migration deal between Brussels and Ankara.
Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz's comments, published on Sunday, risk exacerbating a row between Austria and Turkey that flared last week when Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern suggested ending Turkey's EU membership talks altogether because of the country's democratic and economic deficits.
Talks on Turkish accession have made only slow progress since they began in 2005, with just one "chapter" concluded of 35 such policy areas where Turkey must adopt and implement EU rules.
"I have a seat and a vote in the (EU) foreign ministers' council. There the question is whether new negotiation chapters will be opened with Turkey, and I am against it," Kurz said in an interview with Austrian daily Kurier, threatening to block the unanimous agreement required.
The Turkish government's crackdown on followers of a U.S.-based cleric whom it blames for last month's failed coup has strained relations with the 28-nation bloc, which depends on Ankara to restrict the westward flow of migrants.
Turkey has so far lived up to its side of the deal with Brussels to stop illegal migration to Europe via its territory, in return for financial aid, the promise of visa-free travel to much of the bloc and accelerated talks on membership.
Visa-free access has been subject to delays however due to a dispute over Turkish anti-terrorism legislation, which some in Europe see as too broad, and the post-coup crackdown. Kurz said Turkey had not met the conditions for progress to be made.
"The criteria for visa liberalization will not be fulfilled by Turkey. And the requirements for accession talks have not been met," Kurz said.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said on Friday accession talks were "as good as deadlocked" but he rejected calls to halt them entirely saying the bloc needed to think more broadly about how to frame its ties with Ankara.
Austria's centrist coalition government is under pressure from the resurgent anti-immigration Freedom Party, which is running first in opinion polls with support of more than 30 percent and is vehemently opposed to Turkish EU accession.
Kern's Social Democrats and Kurz's conservative People's Party must either work together or face a snap parliamentary election, and Kurz is widely seen as likely to take over as leader of his party before then.
"Turkey has for its part already declared that it does not want to fulfill all the criteria. As a result the migration deal will not last," Kurz told tabloid newspaper Oesterreich. Interesting that Germany still refuses to completely cancel talks with Turkey, despite the obvious staged coup and rumours of reinstating the death penalty. Like i said before, either let Turkey join the EU or prepare for a far bigger flood of refugees than you saw last year.You think Erdogan will take refusal well? The guy is a psychopath. Enjoy. Not really surprising that the German government is forced to keep Turkey in the loop when there's not even a slight chance of cooperation on the European level to create some comprehensive system to handle refugee streams. They've quite literally run out of other options. Also taking Turkey into the EU isn't really required. Give them free Visas if they desire and that's basically it. Not even really a concession on part of the EU. I don't even think that Turkey itself is genuinely interested in joining the EU any more given the direction they're heading.
I know a lot of companies would love if Turkey would enter some type of customs union with the EU. Lots of freight gets stuck (up to a month) in that border.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Question for Germans. As far as I've heard, the current Turkey deal with refugees is not particularly popular in Germany. So among those who oppose it, what is considered to be the alternative? Taking more refugees? Building a wall on the border? No plan but just disagreeing with the idea that you have to make deals with nations you don't like because of political realities? I really don't see what solution is being proposed.
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On August 08 2016 09:30 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2016 05:38 Nyxisto wrote:On August 07 2016 20:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Austria threatens to block acceleration of Turkish EU talkshttp://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-eu-austria-idUSKCN10I0CO?il=0Austria's foreign minister has threatened to block the expansion of negotiations with Turkey on its accession to the European Union, which could scupper a landmark migration deal between Brussels and Ankara.
Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz's comments, published on Sunday, risk exacerbating a row between Austria and Turkey that flared last week when Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern suggested ending Turkey's EU membership talks altogether because of the country's democratic and economic deficits.
Talks on Turkish accession have made only slow progress since they began in 2005, with just one "chapter" concluded of 35 such policy areas where Turkey must adopt and implement EU rules.
"I have a seat and a vote in the (EU) foreign ministers' council. There the question is whether new negotiation chapters will be opened with Turkey, and I am against it," Kurz said in an interview with Austrian daily Kurier, threatening to block the unanimous agreement required.
The Turkish government's crackdown on followers of a U.S.-based cleric whom it blames for last month's failed coup has strained relations with the 28-nation bloc, which depends on Ankara to restrict the westward flow of migrants.
Turkey has so far lived up to its side of the deal with Brussels to stop illegal migration to Europe via its territory, in return for financial aid, the promise of visa-free travel to much of the bloc and accelerated talks on membership.
Visa-free access has been subject to delays however due to a dispute over Turkish anti-terrorism legislation, which some in Europe see as too broad, and the post-coup crackdown. Kurz said Turkey had not met the conditions for progress to be made.
"The criteria for visa liberalization will not be fulfilled by Turkey. And the requirements for accession talks have not been met," Kurz said.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said on Friday accession talks were "as good as deadlocked" but he rejected calls to halt them entirely saying the bloc needed to think more broadly about how to frame its ties with Ankara.
Austria's centrist coalition government is under pressure from the resurgent anti-immigration Freedom Party, which is running first in opinion polls with support of more than 30 percent and is vehemently opposed to Turkish EU accession.
Kern's Social Democrats and Kurz's conservative People's Party must either work together or face a snap parliamentary election, and Kurz is widely seen as likely to take over as leader of his party before then.
"Turkey has for its part already declared that it does not want to fulfill all the criteria. As a result the migration deal will not last," Kurz told tabloid newspaper Oesterreich. Interesting that Germany still refuses to completely cancel talks with Turkey, despite the obvious staged coup and rumours of reinstating the death penalty. Like i said before, either let Turkey join the EU or prepare for a far bigger flood of refugees than you saw last year.You think Erdogan will take refusal well? The guy is a psychopath. Enjoy. Not really surprising that the German government is forced to keep Turkey in the loop when there's not even a slight chance of cooperation on the European level to create some comprehensive system to handle refugee streams. They've quite literally run out of other options. Also taking Turkey into the EU isn't really required. Give them free Visas if they desire and that's basically it. Not even really a concession on part of the EU. I don't even think that Turkey itself is genuinely interested in joining the EU any more given the direction they're heading. I know a lot of companies would love if Turkey would enter some type of customs union with the EU. Lots of freight gets stuck (up to a month) in that border.
It's just hard to imagine how they'll fit into the EU framework given the human and civil rights situation. Hell they're talking about bringing the death penalty back. I'm pretty sure that's violating a dozen fundamental EU directives.
Also Merkel and the conservatives are ideologically opposed to it for decades now. They're aiming for some kind of "privilged partnership" constellation but it's hard to imagine Merkel changing her stance.
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On August 08 2016 10:25 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2016 09:30 Yurie wrote:On August 08 2016 05:38 Nyxisto wrote:On August 07 2016 20:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Austria threatens to block acceleration of Turkish EU talkshttp://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-eu-austria-idUSKCN10I0CO?il=0Austria's foreign minister has threatened to block the expansion of negotiations with Turkey on its accession to the European Union, which could scupper a landmark migration deal between Brussels and Ankara.
Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz's comments, published on Sunday, risk exacerbating a row between Austria and Turkey that flared last week when Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern suggested ending Turkey's EU membership talks altogether because of the country's democratic and economic deficits.
Talks on Turkish accession have made only slow progress since they began in 2005, with just one "chapter" concluded of 35 such policy areas where Turkey must adopt and implement EU rules.
"I have a seat and a vote in the (EU) foreign ministers' council. There the question is whether new negotiation chapters will be opened with Turkey, and I am against it," Kurz said in an interview with Austrian daily Kurier, threatening to block the unanimous agreement required.
The Turkish government's crackdown on followers of a U.S.-based cleric whom it blames for last month's failed coup has strained relations with the 28-nation bloc, which depends on Ankara to restrict the westward flow of migrants.
Turkey has so far lived up to its side of the deal with Brussels to stop illegal migration to Europe via its territory, in return for financial aid, the promise of visa-free travel to much of the bloc and accelerated talks on membership.
Visa-free access has been subject to delays however due to a dispute over Turkish anti-terrorism legislation, which some in Europe see as too broad, and the post-coup crackdown. Kurz said Turkey had not met the conditions for progress to be made.
"The criteria for visa liberalization will not be fulfilled by Turkey. And the requirements for accession talks have not been met," Kurz said.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said on Friday accession talks were "as good as deadlocked" but he rejected calls to halt them entirely saying the bloc needed to think more broadly about how to frame its ties with Ankara.
Austria's centrist coalition government is under pressure from the resurgent anti-immigration Freedom Party, which is running first in opinion polls with support of more than 30 percent and is vehemently opposed to Turkish EU accession.
Kern's Social Democrats and Kurz's conservative People's Party must either work together or face a snap parliamentary election, and Kurz is widely seen as likely to take over as leader of his party before then.
"Turkey has for its part already declared that it does not want to fulfill all the criteria. As a result the migration deal will not last," Kurz told tabloid newspaper Oesterreich. Interesting that Germany still refuses to completely cancel talks with Turkey, despite the obvious staged coup and rumours of reinstating the death penalty. Like i said before, either let Turkey join the EU or prepare for a far bigger flood of refugees than you saw last year.You think Erdogan will take refusal well? The guy is a psychopath. Enjoy. Not really surprising that the German government is forced to keep Turkey in the loop when there's not even a slight chance of cooperation on the European level to create some comprehensive system to handle refugee streams. They've quite literally run out of other options. Also taking Turkey into the EU isn't really required. Give them free Visas if they desire and that's basically it. Not even really a concession on part of the EU. I don't even think that Turkey itself is genuinely interested in joining the EU any more given the direction they're heading. I know a lot of companies would love if Turkey would enter some type of customs union with the EU. Lots of freight gets stuck (up to a month) in that border. It's just hard to imagine how they'll fit into the EU framework given the human and civil rights situation. Hell they're talking about bringing the death penalty back. I'm pretty sure that's violating a dozen fundamental EU directives. Also Merkel and the conservatives are ideologically opposed to it for decades now. They're aiming for some kind of "privilged partnership" constellation but it's hard to imagine Merkel changing her stance.
That is what I meant as well. Specific deals but no EU membership. Kind of like Norway and the other European countries with open borders but not part of the union. Expect it would be even more restricted and limited though.
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On August 08 2016 05:38 Nyxisto wrote:
Give them free Visas if they desire and that's basically it. Not even really a concession on part of the EU. Wait what?
The right opposition is already clubbing the EU / Merkel with this "you let those dangerous people into our country" stick. How the hell could they politically survive 'opening up the gates' even more?
Just think about the state of the Turkey-Syria-Iraq borders. Good luck defending that position once a couple of terrorist on vacation visas blow themselves up around Europe.
And add to that the Kurdish extremists, what could be more fun than PKK and Turkey's intelligence agents fighting it out on Europe's soil?
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Only Turkish citizens would be able to get visas, and those haven't been known to be related to terrorism. Give them the electronically vetted thing that Canadians are using and there shouldn't be much of a security risk.
Syrian terrorists don't suddenly obtain Turkish citizenship and vacation visas.
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On August 08 2016 14:51 Nyxisto wrote:
Only Turkish citizens would be able to get visas, and those haven't been known to be related to terrorism. Last I checked, PKK is Turkish and terrorist!
(Also, say the conflict escalates even more. Are you ready for another million or more Kurdish refugees in Europe, because they would not need to pay some smugglers or cross the sea in a dingy, they just need to hop on a plane then.)
Syrian terrorists don't suddenly obtain Turkish citizenship and vacation visas. Turkey is covertly supporting IS and other radical groups. These fighters are patched up in Turkish hospitals and they spend their furlough in Turkey most of the time. For these factions (and their oil and cotton) the border is basically open.
And the Turkish intelligence apparatus in deeply involved in this (almost every fighter enters the theater through Turkey).
And in terms of refugees currently being stuck in Turkey, we come to the same logic as demanding from Hungary to stop the trail in their country. Why bother with all the hustle, when you can just give them their papers and be done with it? Why, because there is contract which says you shouldn't do that? Please...
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On August 07 2016 21:06 Elroi wrote:
My own opinion, in short, is that it puts a great strain on any society to welcome a big number of immigrants at the same time, but that the human cost of letting hundreds of thousands of people die or live in inhuman conditions, as slaves or prisonners, is far greater.
and they have to pick cotton for their syrian turkish russian overlord.
it's just a false narrative to mention inhuman conditions (mostly true) and slavery and death (mostly false) in one sentence for these refugess. but you are a moderate man.
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He obviously means people living under the rule of IS.
They accept these horrible conditions because the alternative in refugee camps does not seem much better. And in case of the slaves, it is too late for them to flee of course.
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But the dichotomy he presents is wrong. It isn't either "import all of Syria" or "leave them all to die".
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The argument that there is nothing to gain from excluding Turkey, is interesting and speaks volumes about current situation and trends, as the only thing one can gain is economically speaking, otherwise it is unimportant.
On August 08 2016 14:51 Nyxisto wrote:
Only Turkish citizens would be able to get visas, and those haven't been known to be related to terrorism. Give them the electronically vetted thing that Canadians are using and there shouldn't be much of a security risk.
Syrian terrorists don't suddenly obtain Turkish citizenship and vacation visas.
Has the number of turks fighting for ISIS/Al Qaeda been reduced that much in the past year?
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On August 08 2016 14:51 Nyxisto wrote:
Only Turkish citizens would be able to get visas, and those haven't been known to be related to terrorism. Give them the electronically vetted thing that Canadians are using and there shouldn't be much of a security risk.
Syrian terrorists don't suddenly obtain Turkish citizenship and vacation visas.
I heard you the FETÜ Terrorists have up to 1.000.000 supporters in the Turkey.
As long as Turkey states every Gullenist as Terrorists, there are thousends of "Terrorists" in Turkey and thus giving them visas is impossible.
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EPT
