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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On August 06 2016 23:13 Legatus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2016 23:10 Makro wrote:On August 06 2016 22:59 Legatus wrote:On August 06 2016 22:44 WhiteDog wrote:On August 06 2016 22:38 Legatus wrote:On August 06 2016 22:05 WhiteDog wrote:On August 06 2016 21:41 lord_nibbler wrote:On August 06 2016 21:08 m4ini wrote:
So what you're really trying to say is "we're missionaring them". No, I am certainly not! Stop putting words in my mouth. But you on the other hand, have to admit, that there is a serious impact of living in another country for a while. To claim no effect is ridiculous. It is mighty difficult for a 'hardcore' Muslim here in Germany to keep his family together under strict rules. Their children will see/experience what personal freedom means in hundreds of daily examples. Try putting that genie back into the bottle! Also, it is kind of ironic, that conservative people, who oftentimes bemoan the state of our beautiful language, suddenly don't want to spend much money on teaching German to people who actually live here. We might teach someone German, who maybe doesn't need it? Is that not the goal of all those Stiftungen we set up in other countries?  Your vision does not match reality. It's actually way worse for their children than for them. Migrants know about the differences between the two countries, they experienced it, they lived here and there. The children only goes back to their "home countries" during the holidays and have a very disturbed vision of those countries. We see this perfectly in France, first wave migrants don't cause much trouble and are exploited ; but their children are not as disciplined as they are. What do you mean "first wave migrants are exploited"? Smaller wage than average, harder living condition and working condition that the norm, their diploma are usually not recognized, etc. Might the lower than average wage be due to lower productivity? I don't have any data on this but it might explain at least part of the difference. Another question is how much less they get paid than the average. Maybe nobody else is willing to work at such a low rate? If it weren't for them, likely nobody would do that kind of work. As for the recognition of degrees, I agree that this should be the norm. The only difficult case may be if they studied medicine, but even then steps should be taken to let them start working in their profession as soon as possible. the first big wave of immigrant in the late 60s early 70s got low wage because that was the plan : in france for example bouygues lobbied hard because that kind of workforce had no history of social clash/protest and they could easily exploit it I see. So then my question would be, had this immigration wave not occurred, would "natives" have got those same jobs but for higher salaries or would those lower-paying jobs simply never have been created in the first place?
Either wouldn't have been created or replaced by capital. One of the conclusions of the study I linked earlier is that immigration created jobs.
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After a very busy last week with four violent incidents: We have this week with 3-4 more. I feel as though I'm missing one.
- Somalian Norwegian going on stabbing rampage killing 1 and wounding 5 (UK)
- Cultural enrichment going off and firebombing a bus with a molotov cocktail (France)
Related video. Explosions are confirmed for being loud. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=35b_1470187409
- 2 female officers wounded (Belgium)
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On August 07 2016 02:24 SK.Testie wrote:After a very busy last week with four violent incidents: We have this week with 3-4 more. I feel as though I'm missing one. - Somalian Norwegian going on stabbing rampage killing 1 and wounding 5 (UK) - Cultural enrichment going off and firebombing a bus with a molotov cocktail (France) Related video. Explosions are confirmed for being loud. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=35b_1470187409- 2 female officers wounded (Belgium)
Surely there must have happened things that are far more intersting and worthy of being noticed in europe the last week than those three little incidents? Or are you only intersted in racial profiling as usual?
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In a way it's a sort of long-winded "I told you so" to people who said that this kind of thing wouldn't happen at the outset of the refugee issue.
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Perhaps if "sk.testie" wasn't so selective in general incidents of violence, you wouldn't have such a "busy" week.
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On August 07 2016 07:37 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Perhaps if "sk.testie" wasn't so selective in general incidents of violence, you wouldn't have such a "busy" week.
I knew I forgot one. Acid attack on 5 kids. Yes, it's being selective. Or maybe it's talking about rampages that shouldn't be a part of the country to begin with. "Little incidents."
4 rather large incidents last week (the suicide bombing was going to be much, much worse had he gotten into the festival), 4 more this week. I don't expect this kind of crap to happen every week.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teen-jailed-after-squirting-five-8567478
On August 07 2016 07:02 Elroi wrote:
Surely there must have happened things that are far more intersting and worthy of being noticed in europe the last week than those three little incidents? Or are you only intersted in racial profiling as usual?
A bus getting blown up by a molotov cocktail is pretty interesting. I don't exactly see that every day.
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Yes, young people setting cars on fire in France is completely unheard of
You're just triggered because the guys shouted 'Allah' if it would be your usual bi-monthly labour protest you wouldn't give a crap. It's very interesting that all the right-wingers can turn into fervent pacifists and feminists if the offender is brown enough.
We've already gotten racists to admit that all lives matter this year, I think we're making great progress
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Yes, it is totally selective. Point in case. Your new post has a link to a mirror newspaper article. You call it a large incident. Why? Have you even read it?
Is it a terrorist attack? No.
Did anybody die? No.
Is it culturally motivated? No.
Is it religious motivated? No.
Is it newsworthy? No.
But you feel motivated to post it as part of your muslim/refugee/sharia agenda because the perpetrator is black. Well done.
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On August 07 2016 08:38 Nyxisto wrote:
Yes, young people setting cars on fire in France is completely unheard of
You're just triggered because the guys shouted 'Allah' if it would be your usual bi-monthly labour protest you wouldn't give a crap. It's very interesting that all the right-wingers can turn into fervent pacifists and feminists if the offender is brown enough.
We've already gotten racists to admit that all lives matter this year, I think we're making great progress
Attacking a bus =/= burning cars. From a symbolic standpoint, it's entirely different. It's similar to the few instances of youngsters attacking firefighters - it create a lot of fuss because it is symbolic. Also the religious bullshit does not help.
I love how you're all trying to downplay this kind of event. France is in deep shit, everybody here knows that to be a fact ; only really blinded people can still make you believe burning a bus and crying "allah blabla" in the current situation is just a small event. It says a lot about the relationship those people have with the country they live in, it's not just youngsters having fun.
By the way, nobody cares about people burning car in this country ; it's like a custom at this point.
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I thought it was rather serious because it wasn't just lighting a parked car on fire. They stopped a bus, attacked it, and blew it up in the middle of the street.
That's not really a regular occurrence. Though yes, France most definitely has labour riots and protests quite often.
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they scared the people out of the bus before they trashed it and set in on fire so apparently the intention was vandalism, not physical violence against people.
Not that this kind of riot culture is unproblematic, but it's just not a form of terrorism in the current sense so it's misleading to bring it up in that context.
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On August 07 2016 10:23 Nyxisto wrote:
they scared the people out of the bus before they trashed it and set in on fire so apparently the intention was vandalism, not physical violence against people.
Not that this kind of riot culture is unproblematic, but it's just not a form of terrorism in the current sense so it's misleading to bring it up in that context.
It's not "riot culture" ... Burning bus from a well known and historically respected public transportation firm while crying allah blabla is not part of our "culture".
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On August 07 2016 10:23 Nyxisto wrote:
they scared the people out of the bus before they trashed it and set in on fire so apparently the intention was vandalism, not physical violence against people.
Not that this kind of riot culture is unproblematic, but it's just not a form of terrorism in the current sense so it's misleading to bring it up in that context.
the intention was certainly to intimidate for whatever reason via violence, that they didn't hurt anyone and apparently didn't intend to hurt anyone lessens the seriousness in my eyes but not that much. firebombing a bus doesn't exactly show much concern for the welfare of others, very easily could have resulted in someone getting hurt or killed even with their waiting for people to exit the bus before setting it on fire or blowing it up or whatever.
plus you're still setting a bus on fire (or again blowing it up or whatever), that's quite a spectacle and assault against public order.
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Sure it is a bad thing and they should be punished. I dont think anyone is arguing against that. but to publish it here as a one of the major news stories in europe this week is absurd and only serves to narrow the the already narrow perspective of extremists like testie even more.
If he were an extremist zionist instead of a racist he would only post stories of violance comitted or seemingly commited by palestinians, if he were a left wing activist he would only see stories about police brutality etc.
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since we are already at the allah blabla thing, yesterday a muslim attacked two police women in Belgium with a machete, hacked one of them in the face and wounded her badly, was gunned down and didn't survive his injuries. In the last month or so you could update this thread with infos like that weekly/daily. But very good that there isn't a problem. Imagine how bad things would be if there was an actual problem with radical muslims?
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On August 07 2016 17:33 AngryMag wrote:
Imagine how bad things would be if there was an actual problem with radical muslims? Again and again with this ridiculous claim.
NOBODY IS DENYING THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM!
Get it through your skull!
Just because someone puts things into perspective does not mean he is negating the issue.
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On August 07 2016 17:02 Elroi wrote:
Sure it is a bad thing and they should be punished. I dont think anyone is arguing against that. but to publish it here as a one of the major news stories in europe this week is absurd and only serves to narrow the the already narrow perspective of extremists like testie even more.
If he were an extremist zionist instead of a racist he would only post stories of violance comitted or seemingly commited by palestinians, if he were a left wing activist he would only see stories about police brutality etc.
You call testie an extremist yet your views are just as extreme but on the other side of the argument, i find it astonishing how people like you try to downplay the current events that's going on all around Europe at the moment.
You could just educate yourself and see whats going on but no, you refuse to leave that little bubble of yours. Some of the comments from yours lately are pretty far left you even got in the stereotypical "racist" insult, hard to argue with facts isn't it? Better just call him a racist!
The left is just as bad as the right in in this regard, both uses 1 of 2 extremes, downplaying it can be seen just as bad as over exaggerating it, a lot of people cant conceive there is middleground.
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On August 06 2016 23:48 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2016 23:13 Legatus wrote:On August 06 2016 23:10 Makro wrote:On August 06 2016 22:59 Legatus wrote:On August 06 2016 22:44 WhiteDog wrote:On August 06 2016 22:38 Legatus wrote:On August 06 2016 22:05 WhiteDog wrote:On August 06 2016 21:41 lord_nibbler wrote:On August 06 2016 21:08 m4ini wrote:
So what you're really trying to say is "we're missionaring them". No, I am certainly not! Stop putting words in my mouth. But you on the other hand, have to admit, that there is a serious impact of living in another country for a while. To claim no effect is ridiculous. It is mighty difficult for a 'hardcore' Muslim here in Germany to keep his family together under strict rules. Their children will see/experience what personal freedom means in hundreds of daily examples. Try putting that genie back into the bottle! Also, it is kind of ironic, that conservative people, who oftentimes bemoan the state of our beautiful language, suddenly don't want to spend much money on teaching German to people who actually live here. We might teach someone German, who maybe doesn't need it? Is that not the goal of all those Stiftungen we set up in other countries? Your vision does not match reality. It's actually way worse for their children than for them. Migrants know about the differences between the two countries, they experienced it, they lived here and there. The children only goes back to their "home countries" during the holidays and have a very disturbed vision of those countries. We see this perfectly in France, first wave migrants don't cause much trouble and are exploited ; but their children are not as disciplined as they are. What do you mean "first wave migrants are exploited"? Smaller wage than average, harder living condition and working condition that the norm, their diploma are usually not recognized, etc. Might the lower than average wage be due to lower productivity? I don't have any data on this but it might explain at least part of the difference. Another question is how much less they get paid than the average. Maybe nobody else is willing to work at such a low rate? If it weren't for them, likely nobody would do that kind of work. As for the recognition of degrees, I agree that this should be the norm. The only difficult case may be if they studied medicine, but even then steps should be taken to let them start working in their profession as soon as possible. the first big wave of immigrant in the late 60s early 70s got low wage because that was the plan : in france for example bouygues lobbied hard because that kind of workforce had no history of social clash/protest and they could easily exploit it I see. So then my question would be, had this immigration wave not occurred, would "natives" have got those same jobs but for higher salaries or would those lower-paying jobs simply never have been created in the first place? Either wouldn't have been created or replaced by capital. One of the conclusions of the study I linked earlier is that immigration created jobs.
No-one will deny that the immigration of 1.5 million into Europe created jobs.
The number of jobs created however was nowhere near the number needed for the number that came.
Plus much of the increase in jobs was driven by higher government expenditure on welfare, building new social housing and 'integration' services.
Care to argue that these are not one off/short term costs?
Care to argue that the rapid technological innovations we are seeing are not leading to a massive fall in demand for low skill, low cost labour?
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EPT
