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European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 506

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 06:09:53
August 05 2016 06:08 GMT
#10101
On August 05 2016 14:40 Madkipz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2016 11:27 Nyxisto wrote:
There's no doubt that the crime rates among immigrants are generally higher, but most comparisons are ridiculous as they don't account for difference in age, income, education and so on. Obviously a group of 20 year old impoverished men commits more crime than a group of 80 year old grandmothers. If these things are accounted for the difference becomes a lot less dramatic and vanishes in some areas, theft for example.

Also there's a lot of trickery going on with the baseline. If you have 10 crazy axe murderers out of a one million pop compared to one axe murderer the year before your axe murderer rate just increased by a shocking 1000% although that actually still does say nothing about the million people in question.


The primary mission of any sane nation is the protection of its citizen.

It is the sole foundation we've built everything on. The average citizen has ceded sovereignty on the topic of violence to the state, and the state monopoly on violence is supposed to be what protects them from violent individuals. it doesn't matter that it's statistically insignificant. The government has harmed its own people by importing these immigrants, and have failed at maintaining security.


wait... why does this not matter? In the real world problems are supposed to be sorted by their severity
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10131 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 06:20:38
August 05 2016 06:19 GMT
#10102
On August 05 2016 06:35 Reaps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2016 05:57 RoomOfMush wrote:
On August 05 2016 04:36 SK.Testie wrote:
On August 05 2016 00:18 Velr wrote:
Now the right suddenly finds all this horrible... It was like this since a long time, you just didn't care because it wasn't brown people doing stupid shit or they lived in the turkish parts of your cities were you didn't really realise it....


It's not that it's brown, it's the crime rate. It's the frequency and severity of said crimes. I don't think 2000 men sexually assaulting & stealing from 1200 women was really a common occurrence before in a single night.

I think the people disagreeing with the mayor here are holding in their anger and frustrations very well for the most part
+ Show Spoiler +


The general consensus I'm seeing is that migrants and refugees get slapped on the wrist for some rather serious offenses. Or the police have just given up because they can't deal with the huge influx of crimes.

White people do the same shit. Just because some immigrants are as bad as some natives doesnt mean immigrants are bad.
Some people are simply bad people. They will always be there. In every group of people above a certain size you will find the bad kind, be it immigrants or natives, christians or muslims, muricans, europeans, asians, etc. Some people are nice and some people are not.

What many people like to do though is to only look at the nice natives and the bad foreigners. "Immigrants are killing natives!!!" so what? Natives are killing natives too. "Immigrants are sexually harassing women!!!!" so what? Natives are doing that too.
Its not the fact that they are immigrants. Its the fact that they are arseholes.



You are wrong on every level. Seems like Testie beat me to it on explaining why, i find it astonishing it needs to even be explained in the first place on here..

We even discussed the same issue a few weeks ago in this thread backed up with a few sources, turned out the immigrants are 4 times more likely to rape than a national, and that was Germany, in Sweden it'll be even higher.

4 Times 0.000000001 is still a low ass number. Show real numbers for the argument if you want to show something relevant because speaking proportionally only is completely irrelevant most of the time and will rise the eyebrows of anyone with half a brain.

It remembers me of the news about red meat having a 20% more chance to make you develop a cancer and everyone going crazy to what in reality was a 1% increase (still significant, but blown out of proportions by the media).
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 08:39:01
August 05 2016 08:24 GMT
#10103
4 Times 0.000000001 is still a low ass number. Show real numbers for the argument if you want to show something relevant because speaking proportionally only is completely irrelevant most of the time and will rise the eyebrows of anyone with half a brain.


Showing real numbers for the argument would have been a lot easier if
    A: German police collected and released data by race / crime.
    B: German police actually did their job properly for a good portion of the migrant crisis rather than slaps on the wrist
    C: Weren't complicit in attempting damage control with politicians and trying to downplay the event
    D: The heavy censorship regarding the event. Nothing happened, it was a small issue!... except massive public outcry made them address the issue. There was heavy censorship on reddit about this as well and only the racists at /r/european saved the day there hilariously enough despite news, worldnews, europe etc really deleting threads at a mile per minute. European is a closed reddit now.. likely for all racism. They did gain a shitload of subscribers that day though and on other days when they censored Islam attacks iirc. By now, a larger % of people are aware of the heavy censorship on reddit against things that go against their agenda.


But for now let's take this event. (There's others, believe me, I have a lot more).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany#Other_similar_incidents

Let's not pass this off as miniscule, or because of poor economic factors. Often when I join another country, rather than acting as a guest, I act as though perhaps I should rape some of the locals. Rather than acting as a guest as I live off their money and eat their food, I really feel I should help myself to some of their women because I'm just so bored doing nothing. Grab some mates, circle a girl, really make her feel at home, you know?

Let's please not try to sweep this under the rug as if it was a small thing. As if it's 0.000000001%. Because one of the things that really blows me away when these things happen is the sheer magnitude and the ease of which migrant men were complicit in this. There weren't any fights breaking out to stop it, there wasn't a lot of, "Hey man, don't do that. That's not right." I often wonder if I called up all the men in my lily white town how many of them would just be down for a good old game of circling women and ripping their clothes and touching them inappropriately (and more.. if time permits it!) Something tells me had I called everyone I knew up for that, on my very first phonecall they would have thrown me in jail.

Cologne
On New Year's Eve, December 2015, witnesses reported that firecrackers were thrown into a crowd from a group of people of around 500, which had doubled in size by later that night, at the square in front of Cologne's Central Station.[47] Following this event, groups of men exploited the confusion to rob and sexually assault people in the area and within the station.[47][48] According to witnesses, the attackers surrounded women in groups of 30–40.[49]

According to the Cologne police report on 2 January, the suspects mostly used sexual assault (including groping) to distract victims while robbing them of mobile phones and wallets. Police initially said that the sizes of the groups ranged from 2 to 20 people.[50] According to a Bundeskriminalamt report released in June 2016, perpetrators acted mostly in groups of 9 up to 100 men. The offenders used the same method nearly everywhere: lone women were encircled and touched in the breasts, the bottom, and between the legs. In several cases, a finger was inserted into the vagina of the victim – which constitutes a rape under German law – after her clothes were torn from the body. Groping, insults, and rape were often combined with robbery and theft.[46]

A female undercover police officer was sexually assaulted, the offender grabbing into her pants.[51] In other cases, the victims' clothing was tore off.[52] Media reports included the case of an American woman, who was protected by Syrian men who formed a ring around her and then brought her to her boyfriend.[53] One victim described a firecracker being put in the hood of her jacket while her personal belongings were stolen.[54]

As of July 2016, more than 2,000 men were found to have been involved in the attacks, and 120 suspects — about half of them foreign nationals who had recently arrived in Germany at the time — have been identified.[55] On 5 January, shortly after the assaults, Cologne mayor Henriette Reker said in a press conference that there was "no evidence that people who are residing in Cologne as refugees are amongst the perpetrators". Cologne's police president, Wolfgang Albers, stated that "the police has no knowledge about the offenders".[48] To some, including the German Minister of Justice Heiko Maas, the assaults appeared to have been organized or coordinated, the perpetrators having arrived in large groups.[56] Police later said that some perpetrators used social media to meet at the New Year's Eve celebrations,[38][42][32][43] but Ralf Jäger, Minister of the Interior of North Rhine-Westphalia, said there was "so far no evidence that the perpetrators had arranged the assaults before New Year's Eve".[38] Jürgen Mathies, the new Cologne police chief, said many of the perpetrators were from countries where they might be familiar with "this behaviour, where women are hemmed in and then abused by a large number of men at once".[32][43] According to both Jäger and Mathies, the suspects did not come from pickpocketing or organized crime gangs.[38][32][43]

According to Albers, who was subsequently transferred to provisional retirement for his handling of the situation, the alleged perpetrators were all men "of Arab or North African appearance" between the ages of 15 and 35, who could not speak German.[1][8][57][58] The perpetrators were reported to have been several groups of heavily intoxicated men of Arab or North African appearance, who emerged from a gathering of up to 1,000 men.[29][59][60]

On 7 January, several anonymous police officers from Cologne denied statements that the police did not know the nationality of the perpetrators; they told the press that "most of them" would have been freshly arrived asylum seekers. Contradicting statements from Cologne police leaders, these officers said that the identities of many people, including those who were arrested, had been thoroughly checked, so that police knew which groups of people were involved.[61]

Around 70 people had been checked, and several brought to police stations or taken into custody. The majority of those in detention were Syrians.[61] The officers denied that the sexual harassment was only incidental, saying the truth was "exactly the opposite". Most of the perpetrators sought primarily to commit sexual offenses, or in their words "sexual amusement".[62] Arnold Plickert, North Rhine Westphalia's representative of German police union Gewerkschaft der Polizei, confirmed that asylum seekers were "definitely" involved.[61][63]

On 8 January, the Federal Ministry of the Interior acknowledged that two-thirds of the suspects checked by the Federal Police — who are responsible for the railways and railway stations in Germany — in Cologne were asylum seekers. The same report stated that 31 suspects were identified by name, including 18 asylum seekers. In total, the suspects were nine Algerians, eight Moroccans, four Syrians, five Iranians, two Germans, an Iraqi, a Serb, and an American.[37] Another report on the same day stated that stolen mobile phones were located by the police within or in the vicinity of refugees' residences.[64]

By 8 January, 170 women, including a police officer, had reported crimes to the police, including two rapes, with the events taking place in the main square between the station and Cologne Cathedral, and also within and outside the central railway station.[9][10][64][65][66] The number increased to 379 on the following day, and sexual offences were alleged in 40 percent of these cases. Most of the suspects were described as men of North African appearance. The increase in reported crimes was attributed to the fact that more officers have been assigned to the investigation, so complaints from more police stations are being evaluated. Many of the attacked women were non-residents, visitors, or other travellers in the main station.[67] By 11 January, the number of complaints was 553, with sexual offences comprising nearly half of the cases.[40]

The next day, it was reported that the number had risen to 653, but a correction made later on set the number at 561. According to the department of public prosecution, there has been a transmission error ("Übermittlungsfehler").[68][69] By 14 January, the number rose again to 652,[70] by 15 January to 676 complaints, 347 of these including sexual offences.[15] On 19 January, the number of complaints was at 766,[17] rising to 821 on 21 January, including 359 sexual offences.[38] The number of victims is higher, as some complaints included more than one victim: 1,049 people were affected in total as of 21 January.[15][17][38] Three women were allegedly raped.[2][17][71] By 30 January, the number of complaints in Cologne was 1,016, 433 of which included sexual offences.[12] On 10 February, the number of complaints had risen again to 1,054. Alleged sexual offences were included in 454 cases, while the other cases consisted mostly of theft, robbery, and personal injuries.[13] The number of complaints rose again to 1,075 by February 15; 467 included sexual offences.[4] By 17 March, it had risen to more than 1,100.[5] As of 18 March, the Cologne Public Prosecutor reported 1,139 crime complaints filed during New Year's Eve, 485 of which were sexual offences.[6] By 6 April, the number of reported crimes in Cologne was 1,529. A total of 1,218 victims were involved, 529 of which were victims of sexual offences.[7]

Some complaints also included the allegation of denial of assistance and obstruction of justice in office against Wolfgang Albers and some police officers,[72] as well as the North Rhine-Westphalia Minister of the Interior, Ralf Jäger.[73] By 17 March, the number of such complaints was 51.[73]



Hamburg[edit]

Many of the alleged crimes were also committed on the street of Große Freiheit in Hamburg.
Similar events took place in Hamburg, specifically on or near Reeperbahn, St. Pauli,[57] where 53 women reported being sexually assaulted or robbed.[74][75][76]

By 7 January, the number of complaints to the police in Hamburg increased to 70,[77] to 108 by 8 January,[78] to 153 by 12 January,[79] to 195 by January 14,[16] to 205 as of 20 January,[80] and to 218 by 21 January. 351 people were reported to be victims of the alleged crimes.[81] Eight people were identified as suspects, all of them migrants and some recently arrived refugees.[16] A first suspect was arrested on January 21.[81] According to the police, the number of suspects is likely to rise.[16] On 4 February, a Hamburg police report leaked to the press showed that two women have allegedly been raped in Hamburg on New Year's Eve. There were 236 complaints with 391 victims.[3] According to this report, nearly all offences in Hamburg were "exclusively motivated sexually": only three complaints with seven victims in total included no sexual offences.[3] Most of the incidents took place around the street of Große Freiheit near the Reeperbahn, where a large crowd was gathered. Some policemen stood at the entrances of the street, but did not realise that sexual offences were taking place in the crowd or were themselves reluctant to act as they were in the minority. Many women except for one did not even have time or were too upset to call the emergency numbers that night.[82]

Some incidents occurred on a shopping street, Jungfernstieg, where "several hundred" "highly aggressive and intoxicated" migrants threw fire crackers into the crowd. The police described the situation there as "borderline", because only 20 policemen were available there after midnight.[83] On the Reeperbahn, bouncers acted to accompany and protect women in reaction to the events, and sales at some clubs and bars fell. On New Year's Eve, doormen were often the only people who could help victims, even those accompanied by husbands or partners.[82][84] They opened a backyard in which they established a protection zone for the offended women. Doormen described the perpetrators as refugees, which they saw among other characteristics from their mismatching clothes.[82] Mayor Olaf Scholz demanded quicker deportation of criminal migrants in reaction to the events.[83] There has been an increased police presence, especially on the Reeperbahn.[82]


Other cities[edit]

More than 100 alleged crimes were reported in Düsseldorf Downtown.
Criminal activity was also reported in Bielefeld, which had 18 complaints; Düsseldorf, which had at least 113 complaints; Dortmund, which had 28 complaints; Frankfurt, which had at least 22 complaints; and Stuttgart, which had at least 72 complaints.[9][49][57][74][85][86][87][88]

In Düsseldorf, the 113 complaints of sexual assaults and theft followed 41 others that were reported earlier.[78][89] The alleged crimes were committed from 11:00 p.m. on New Year's Eve to 6:15 a.m. on 1 January, with a crime being reported every four minutes. Most of the crimes happened in Altstadt, the old town of Düsseldorf.[89] The perpetrators were described as groups of young male migrants who showed "no respect for women".[88] 57 of the 113 alleged crimes were sexual assaults, and 13 further were classified as "insulting on a sexual base".[89][90]

In Frankfurt, all 22 complaints filed were sexual assaults.[86] In Stuttgart, 17 of the 72 complaints made to the police by 20 January were sexual offences.[87]

In Dortmund, at least two complaints of sexual assaults were made by 11 January, but the police stated that there are probably more victims. Witnesses told the media of two groups of men, 150 within Dortmund main station, 200–300 outside. One witness described the group in the station as "strangely silent". Another witness stated that the men outside were "aggressive". The victims were then sexually assaulted by smaller groups of men of Arabic or southern origin near the station.[91][92] By 20 January, the number of complaints had risen to 28, including four sexual offences. 32 people were affected in total, seven of them for sexual assaults.[88]

In Bielefeld, several young women were reported to be sexually assaulted and robbed by men of North African origin in and around a discothèque. Around 500 men tried to force their access into the building. According to witnesses, the doormen pushed back the attackers by using fire extinguishers and tear gas. They also rescued women by pulling them into the building. The perpetrators were reported to be "highly aggressive" "especially against women". At least three complaints of sexual assaults have been made.[9][21][22][93] By 20 January, the number of the complaints rose to 18, five of which included sexual assaults. There were 22 victims in total in Bielefeld.[88]

On 20 January, North Rhine-Westphalia Police published provisional figures for the four cities in its territory: Bielefeld, Cologne, Dortmund, and Düsseldorf. There were complaints of nearly 1,000 crimes with a total of 1,216 victims from the four cities alone.[18] By 9 April, these numbers had risen to 1,754 crimes, with 1,455 victims living in all four cities.[14] Also in January, the fact became known from a confidential report of the German Bundeskriminalamt (Federal Criminal Office, BKA) that offences similar to those in North Rhine-Westphalia and Hamburg occurred – in a lower extent – in 12 of the 16 German federal states.[94]

In addition, similar assaults in Austria, Finland, Switzerland, and Sweden were reported.[95][96]


Police response[edit]

Cologne police Twitter post describing atmosphere as "playful" on New Year's morning
In Cologne, police dispatched 143 local officers and 70 federal officers to restore order. However, due to the darkness and the number of people involved, police chief Wolfgang Albers conceded that their efforts were not effective.[47] In March, media outlets reported that there were not 143, but only 80 police officers deployed at the central station, the others being in service elsewhere in downtown Cologne. Also, the number of policemen at the station was reduced later that night, as there were further police operations in the city. A police spokesman said that the corrected number had been transmitted to the Parliamentary Committee of the Interior on 11 January. However, he could not explain why it hadn't been published earlier.[5]

Cologne police came under criticism for their handling of the situation, as their initial press release described the New Year's Eve celebrations as "playful". One victim who was robbed and assaulted was told to report the incident elsewhere by the police.[8] Interior Minister Thomas de Maizière also criticized the North Rhine-Westphalia police for describing the celebrations as "peaceful".[97] Police chief Wolfgang Albers later called the assaults "a completely new dimension of crime".[85]

Düsseldorf police told reporters they were investigating whether the attacks in Cologne were linked to a gang of roughly 2,000 North African men, a known criminal network in Düsseldorf.[74][98]

On 7 January, the police acknowledged an information blackout until the interior committee of the parliament of North Rhine-Westphalia discussed the events on 11 January. That same day, a report by a leading police officer in Cologne on New Year's Eve was cited in several newspapers, including criticism that the number of police officers was too small to deal with the events.[65] According to the report, the perpetrators acted "with a disrespect I didn't see in 29 years of service." Some shouted, "I am Syrian! You have to treat me friendly. Mrs Merkel has invited me!" Others tore their immigration papers while saying, "You can't do me anything. Tomorrow I will go and get new papers."[99] Because of the allegations of misinformation and the "loss of public trust", Albers was transferred to provisional retirement for his handling of the situation on 8 January.[100][101]

The German Federal Criminal Police Office (Bundeskriminalamt, BKA) stated on 9 January that the incidents of collective sexual harassment were a phenomenon known in Arab countries as "taharrush gamea" ("communal sexual harassment"). The BKA announced their intention to investigate the facts about such incidents in all German federal states and learn how to combat them.[23]

On 15 January, the Cologne police offered a reward of 10,000 Euro for relevant information leading to the identification of an offender. The posters were hung up near airports, railway stations, and refugees' residences.[102] In Hamburg, 2,000 Euro were offered as a reward.[3]

In reaction to the events at Cologne, the North Rhine-Westfalia police conducted several raids in refugee accommodations all over its territory in the following days to increase pressure on criminal migrants. Among others, raids were conducted in Recklinghausen, where the perpetrator of a January 2016 attempted attack at a police station in Paris lived before committing that crime. Further raids were reported from Kalk, Cologne; and Ahlen. In Ahlen, only 144 of 230 registered persons were found during the raid; the others had fled. Around 50 percent of those present lived under false identities. The police opened 86 criminal proceedings for illegal residence, drug crimes, abuse of social benefits, and personal injury.[103]

Cologne police stepped up police presence at Cologne Carnival in reaction to the incidents. More than 2,500 security forces were deployed, more than three times the amount of forces utilized in the last year.[12] Cologne police also kept sexual assault suspects out of the Carnival celebrations with entry bans.[104] An all-girls high school in Cologne was closed at Carnival, while others addressed the incidents in class and informed their pupils about preventive measures.[105] Nevertheless, on 5 February, three rapes were reported, at least two of them by migrants.[106]

On 10 May, the German police released a new video of the Cologne attacks as Ralf Jäger was under pressure to resign. At around 23:40 on the day of the attacks, police started to shut down the square where there were more than 1,000 young migrant men. The clip showed the officers' inability to remove young migrant men from the square due to their small numbers. In the clip, as police struggled with the crowd, the situation became chaotic, and a woman shouted "You must not touch me."[107]


Other similar incidents[edit]
Germany[edit]
At Karneval der Kulturen (Carnival of Cultures) festival in Kreuzberg, Berlin, on Pentecost weekend, twelve similar crimes were reported, eight of which were sexual assaults. Seven men of Tunisian, Moroccan, Libyan, and Algerian origin were arrested on charges of theft. Four further men were arrested under allegations of sexual assault. The press reported the case of two teenage girls, ages 17 and 18, who were encircled and molested by a group of ten young men. According to the police, the suspects of these sexual assaults had a Turkish and Libanese "migration background". In addition, a 16-year-old girl and a 22-year-old woman were sexually assaulted. In the case of the 22-year-old victim, a 40-year-old man from Turkey was arrested as a suspect.[125] On 30 May, it was reported that a total of 18 complaints were made to the police after the music festival of Schlossgrabenfest in Darmstadt. Like the Karneval der Kulturen case, women were encircled by groups of young men. Three suspected asylum seekers, ages 28 to 31, were arrested, and additional suspects are being sought by the police.[126]

The New Year's Eve incidents also sparked a discussion in Germany, regarding the possibility of the rise of sexual assaults by migrants in public baths. There were several prominent cases, including some in Norderstedt, Oldenburg, and Munich, with some officials saying the number of crimes hadn't risen. However, the start of outdoor pool season fueled public concern about the situation.[127] The case of a swimming bath in Bornheim near Cologne made headlines in January, as the city prohibited male refugees from entering the bath, but lifted the ban a week later after statements of criticism were made in the media.[128]

Sexual offences at Carnival[edit]
At least three rapes were reported at the Cologne Carnival. A 17-year-old asylum seeker from Afghanistan was suspected of raping a 22-year-old woman and a teenager was subsequently arrested at a residence for refugees.[129] The suspect was released the following day, but another 17-year-old male from the same accommodation was then arrested.[130] A second rape was also reported in Cologne.[106] At Carnival celebrations in Stukenbrock in the district of Gütersloh, a third rape was reported. A 29-year-old asylum seeker from Nigeria was strongly suspected to have raped a 24-year-old woman and was arrested.[131]

A total of 224 complaints were made to the police so far in Cologne. They consisted mostly of personal injuries, but also included 22 sexual offences.[129][132] By 10 February, the number of sexual offences in Cologne at Carnival had risen to 66.[133] 99 persons were detained in Cologne on Carnival, while 432 others were arrested temporarily.[133][134] A total of 1,389 people were dismissed from Carnival celebrations by the police.[133]

Jürgen Mathies, the new police chief of Cologne, said this was "much", but it had something to do with the fact "that the police intervened very consistently this time."[134] Nevertheless, Mathies stated that there had been a "highly problematic clientele": groups from Northern Africa, which converged on the stairways in front of the Cologne Cathedral. The police had to deploy additional forces on 7 February, and the security situation at Carnival was tense.[133]

While covering the Cologne Carnival live for Belgian television, reporter Esmeralda Labye was groped by attackers, who were apparently of European origin and whom Labye described as speaking German.[135] One of the attackers, a 17-year-old man, turned himself in to the police the following day, accompanied by his mother. However, he denied that his actions were sexually motivated.[130]

Other countries[edit]
Similar attacks on New Year's Eve were reported outside of Germany by 7 January in Austria, Finland, and Switzerland.[95] In Helsinki, "widespread sexual harassment" was reported, and three Iraqi asylum seekers were detained.[136] The deputy police chief of Helsinki said, "There hasn't been this kind of harassment on previous New Year's Eves or other occasions for that matter... This is a completely new phenomenon in Helsinki."[137] Finland's National Bureau of Investigation denied initial suspicions that assaults similar to those in Cologne had been planned in Helsinki.[138] Helsinki police received information relating to three cases of sexual harassment, of which two led to a report of an offence.[139]

Sweden[edit]
In Sweden, several cities reported similar events of immigrants sexually harassing girls and women during New Year's Eve. Among them were Malmö, Helsingborg, Karlstad, and Kalmar.[140][141][142][143]

In January 2016, news also emerged of an alleged police cover-up of sexual crimes at a Stockholm youth festival in the two previous summers, in which it was alleged that many perpetrators were of migrant background.[144]

During the summer of 2016, reports emerged of sexual assaults and rapes in at least two other music festivals in Sweden. Police received five reports of rape and twelve reports of sexual assaults at the Bråvalla festival in Norrköping, and several more at the Putte i Parken festival in Karlstad, including girls as young as twelve years old.[145][146] One girl was raped in the middle of the crowd in front of a music act by Zara Larsson. Police described the rape as consummated, the girl having been penetrated from behind after being surrounded by a gang of boys.[147][148] By 6 July, more than 40 sexual assaults and rapes had been reported at the festivals.[149][150] The detained youths, who formed gangs to surround and assault girls, were described as immigrants and refugees, including "unaccompanied refugee youth".[151][152] By the end of July, the festival summer in Sweden had seen a total of 111 reported sexual assaults, including ten rapes across at least ten festivals, a ten-fold increase from the previous year.[153]

Sexual assaults were also reported at the Gothia Cup international youth football tournament in July. In one incident, three underage girls were surrounded by 30 to 40 boys from a foreign football team, including the team's 35-year-old coach. The girls were groped in their genitals and kissed on, and had to fight their way free; one of the girls was tongued by the coach, who was arrested.[154][155]


The magnitude of it is really impressive. And I just have so... so much more.
But it's 4:20 and I'm up 4 hours later than I should be. Good night. Remember to, "keep an arms length" and "just use different avenues to go to school" from now on. Also beware your public pools in the event of sexual emergencies.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
August 05 2016 08:38 GMT
#10104
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/making-a-killing-the-1-2-billion-euros-arms-pipeline-to-middle-east-07-26-2016
...
BIRN and the OCCRP examined arms export data, UN reports, flight records, and weapons contracts during a year-long investigation that reveals how thousands of assault rifles, mortar shells, rocket launchers, anti-tank weapons, and heavy machine guns are pouring into the troubled region, originating from Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Montenegro, Romania, Serbia and Slovakia.

Since the escalation of the Syrian conflict in 2012, these eight countries have approved the shipment of weapons and ammunition worth at least 1.2 billion euros to Saudi Arabia, Jordan, United Arab Emirates, and Turkey.

The figure is likely much higher. Data on arms export licences for four out of eight countries were not available for 2015 and seven out of eight countries for 2016. The four recipient countries are key arms suppliers to Syria and Yemen with little or no history of buying from Central and Eastern Europe prior to 2012. And the pace of the transfers is not slowing, with some of the biggest deals approved in 2015.

[image loading] them scapegoats found!.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
lord_nibbler
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany591 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 09:24:42
August 05 2016 09:22 GMT
#10105
Are these new weapons/ammunition or is everybody just dumping their vintage East block stuff onto them?

PS: In terms of arms deals, these numbers look like peanuts...
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 09:38:42
August 05 2016 09:35 GMT
#10106
it's old soviet stuff(with some locally produced stuff) and ye, it is peanuts.
article says that some of the supplies were delivered by US ships from the Black Sea and some FSA dude says the deals were CIA negotiated.
it'll be interesting to see if EU brings the punishment hammer down.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
lord_nibbler
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany591 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 09:59:15
August 05 2016 09:57 GMT
#10107
On August 05 2016 18:35 xM(Z wrote:
it'll be interesting to see if EU brings the punishment hammer down.
What, why?
I don't see Syria on the recipient list, so why would the EU have anything against it?

xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 11:16:43
August 05 2016 11:16 GMT
#10108
“The evidence points towards systematic diversion of weapons to armed groups accused of committing serious human rights violations. If this is the case, the transfers are illegal under the ATT (United Nations’ Arms Trade Treaty) and other international law and should cease immediately,” said Patrick Wilcken, an arms-control researcher at Amnesty International who reviewed the evidence collected by reporters.
...
Robert Stephen Ford, US ambassador to Syria between 2011 and 2014, told BIRN and the OCCRP that the trade is coordinated by the US Central Intelligence Agency, CIA, Turkey and Gulf states through centres in Jordan and Turkey, although in practice weapon supplies often bypass this process.

read that shit, i won't quote it for you anymore.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
lord_nibbler
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany591 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 11:34:34
August 05 2016 11:29 GMT
#10109
So? I still don't get it...
Do you not realize that Amnesty International is not in charge of anything?
Or are you this naive, to think any realpolitik would give respect some silly arms trade treaties (practically an oxymoron if you ask me)?

US is arming 'moderate rebels' in Syria through Saudi Arabia and their own CIA. It is no secret or anything. The president gave press conferences on this...
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9229 Posts
August 05 2016 11:44 GMT
#10110
I don't see anything that would warrant bringing the punishment hammer, it would be very dishonest to punish those countries for selling weapons to Saudis.
You're now breathing manually
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5599 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 13:14:52
August 05 2016 12:59 GMT
#10111
I see so many ill informed and hatefull posts here it makes my head spin. Yes, many immigrants are comming to europe now because of the war in syria and in the wake of the arab spring. And yes, integration is difficult, costs money (at least in the beginning) and desperate, poor, marginalized people are potentially more dangerous than others. But please have some sense of proportions here. The alternative is to let hundreds of thousands of people, men, women and children, starve, drown, get locked up in camps (like the torture camps used for extortion in egypt and libya) or simply sold as slaves.

At the same time populist parties wants you to be afraid. It is by far the easiest way to win votes. To instill unreasonable fear is the easiest way to control people and it is practiced by all dictators from hitler to erdogan. I see so much fear mongering here, but please remember that, for example, sweden has a lower crime rate now than we had before this recent wave of immigrants came here. The economy is still going strong. People are happy and the living standard of the average swede is going up. Is everything perfect and is the intigration of immigrants flaweless? No, but we will be fine and at least we do something to help. Wir schaffen das.

Some sources.
Crime rates: https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/brottsutvecklingen.html (in swedish, but you will understand the graph.)
Living standards: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/sweden/
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
lord_nibbler
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany591 Posts
August 05 2016 13:12 GMT
#10112
On August 05 2016 21:59 Elroi wrote:
Wir schaffen das.
Uhh. You stepped on a land mine there.
Better run for cover...
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4782 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 15:13:33
August 05 2016 15:06 GMT
#10113
The real alternative to importing refugees to Europe was to establish proper camps in their neighbouring countries where the help would actually have reached those in the biggest need of it.

But oh no, instead we can all lie to ourselves by making it seem like we are doing a good deed by encouraging refugees to use the human traffickers and undergo an incredibly dangerous journey to get to northern Europe. The mass grave in the Mediterranean and all those refugees who do not have the means to go to northern Europe are easily ignorable when you can say "we accepted X thousand refugees".

If you really want to help, donate to the NGOs which actually help in the camps and in Syria. I've personally chosen MSF to receive my yearly donation, as their overhead is quite small and their organisation is getting things done, but make your own decision.

EDIT: The last paragraph is not meant in a "holier than thou" way - merely as an encouragement of taking action. I doubt we are disagreeing all that much.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
August 05 2016 16:34 GMT
#10114
On August 05 2016 20:29 lord_nibbler wrote:
So? I still don't get it...
Do you not realize that Amnesty International is not in charge of anything?
Or are you this naive, to think any realpolitik would give respect some silly arms trade treaties (practically an oxymoron if you ask me)?

US is arming 'moderate rebels' in Syria through Saudi Arabia and their own CIA. It is no secret or anything. The president gave press conferences on this...

what you have there are your opinions.
the treaty, signed and ratified is legally binding so yea ...
The Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) is a multilateral treaty that regulates the international trade in conventional weapons. It entered into force on 24 December 2014.[1] Eighty-seven states have ratified the treaty, and a further 46 states have signed but not ratified it.[2]

The ATT is an attempt to regulate the international trade of conventional weapons for the purpose of contributing to international and regional peace, reducing human suffering, and promoting co-operation, transparency and responsible action by and among states.[3][4]
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 17:57:18
August 05 2016 17:56 GMT
#10115
On August 05 2016 21:59 Elroi wrote:
I see so many ill informed and hatefull posts here it makes my head spin. Yes, many immigrants are comming to europe now because of the war in syria and in the wake of the arab spring. And yes, integration is difficult, costs money (at least in the beginning) and desperate, poor, marginalized people are potentially more dangerous than others. But please have some sense of proportions here. The alternative is to let hundreds of thousands of people, men, women and children, starve, drown, get locked up in camps (like the torture camps used for extortion in egypt and libya) or simply sold as slaves.

At the same time populist parties wants you to be afraid. It is by far the easiest way to win votes. To instill unreasonable fear is the easiest way to control people and it is practiced by all dictators from hitler to erdogan. I see so much fear mongering here, but please remember that, for example, sweden has a lower crime rate now than we had before this recent wave of immigrants came here. The economy is still going strong. People are happy and the living standard of the average swede is going up. Is everything perfect and is the intigration of immigrants flaweless? No, but we will be fine and at least we do something to help. Wir schaffen das.

Some sources.
Crime rates: https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/brottsutvecklingen.html (in swedish, but you will understand the graph.)
Living standards: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/sweden/


That's because the police in sweden literally leave the ghetto places with tons of migrants enforcing their own sharia law in peace rather than enforce the law on everyone.

https://swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/police-yes-there-are-no-go-zones-in-sweden/

nevermind that if swedes did the same they'd be arrested as neo nazi's.

Hundreds and thousands of people are starving in camps in turkey and other places. You think the number of immigrants europe accepts is significant? It's not. it's like taking one or two peanuts from a bowl, and germany is being critizised for upping the amount of peanuts their taking without providing the level of security this demands.

Anyone nation bringing in syrian migrants are just looking to score cheap political points in the media storm, and to let their opposition look like racists for simply being sensible. The worst part is that the people we're taking in is extending the crisis. It's like removing pressure from the valve of a nation in dire need for the manpower and the skills of the people fleeing it to solve the crisis.
"Mudkip"
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
August 05 2016 18:21 GMT
#10116
'cheap political points in the media storm'? The Merkel administration has taken quite some serious hits in popularity over the last year. Sure they're still pretty consolidated also because she's got a lot of cross party support, but she surely isn't governing by the poll numbers, which was something Merkel was accused of for pretty much the first 8 years since she's in office.
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5599 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 18:50:33
August 05 2016 18:43 GMT
#10117
On August 06 2016 02:56 Madkipz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2016 21:59 Elroi wrote:
I see so many ill informed and hatefull posts here it makes my head spin. Yes, many immigrants are comming to europe now because of the war in syria and in the wake of the arab spring. And yes, integration is difficult, costs money (at least in the beginning) and desperate, poor, marginalized people are potentially more dangerous than others. But please have some sense of proportions here. The alternative is to let hundreds of thousands of people, men, women and children, starve, drown, get locked up in camps (like the torture camps used for extortion in egypt and libya) or simply sold as slaves.

At the same time populist parties wants you to be afraid. It is by far the easiest way to win votes. To instill unreasonable fear is the easiest way to control people and it is practiced by all dictators from hitler to erdogan. I see so much fear mongering here, but please remember that, for example, sweden has a lower crime rate now than we had before this recent wave of immigrants came here. The economy is still going strong. People are happy and the living standard of the average swede is going up. Is everything perfect and is the intigration of immigrants flaweless? No, but we will be fine and at least we do something to help. Wir schaffen das.

Some sources.
Crime rates: https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/brottsutvecklingen.html (in swedish, but you will understand the graph.)
Living standards: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/sweden/


That's because the police in sweden literally leave the ghetto places with tons of migrants enforcing their own sharia law in peace rather than enforce the law on everyone.

https://swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/police-yes-there-are-no-go-zones-in-sweden/

nevermind that if swedes did the same they'd be arrested as neo nazi's.

Hundreds and thousands of people are starving in camps in turkey and other places. You think the number of immigrants europe accepts is significant? It's not. it's like taking one or two peanuts from a bowl, and germany is being critizised for upping the amount of peanuts their taking without providing the level of security this demands.

Anyone nation bringing in syrian migrants are just looking to score cheap political points in the media storm, and to let their opposition look like racists for simply being sensible. The worst part is that the people we're taking in is extending the crisis. It's like removing pressure from the valve of a nation in dire need for the manpower and the skills of the people fleeing it to solve the crisis.

I'm sorry but you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about. There are no sharia law zones in sweden. To explain away the fact that the crime rates here are lower than ever by saying that there is some mysterious parallell state next to the ordinary state is just some next level conspiracy theorizing. And your source is some xenophobic american right wing blogger who in turn posts sources that have nothing to do with the matter at hand.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
August 06 2016 03:26 GMT
#10118
On August 06 2016 02:56 Madkipz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2016 21:59 Elroi wrote:
I see so many ill informed and hatefull posts here it makes my head spin. Yes, many immigrants are comming to europe now because of the war in syria and in the wake of the arab spring. And yes, integration is difficult, costs money (at least in the beginning) and desperate, poor, marginalized people are potentially more dangerous than others. But please have some sense of proportions here. The alternative is to let hundreds of thousands of people, men, women and children, starve, drown, get locked up in camps (like the torture camps used for extortion in egypt and libya) or simply sold as slaves.

At the same time populist parties wants you to be afraid. It is by far the easiest way to win votes. To instill unreasonable fear is the easiest way to control people and it is practiced by all dictators from hitler to erdogan. I see so much fear mongering here, but please remember that, for example, sweden has a lower crime rate now than we had before this recent wave of immigrants came here. The economy is still going strong. People are happy and the living standard of the average swede is going up. Is everything perfect and is the intigration of immigrants flaweless? No, but we will be fine and at least we do something to help. Wir schaffen das.

Some sources.
Crime rates: https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/brottsutvecklingen.html (in swedish, but you will understand the graph.)
Living standards: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/sweden/


That's because the police in sweden literally leave the ghetto places with tons of migrants enforcing their own sharia law in peace rather than enforce the law on everyone.

https://swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/police-yes-there-are-no-go-zones-in-sweden/

nevermind that if swedes did the same they'd be arrested as neo nazi's.

Hundreds and thousands of people are starving in camps in turkey and other places. You think the number of immigrants europe accepts is significant? It's not. it's like taking one or two peanuts from a bowl, and germany is being critizised for upping the amount of peanuts their taking without providing the level of security this demands.

Anyone nation bringing in syrian migrants are just looking to score cheap political points in the media storm, and to let their opposition look like racists for simply being sensible. The worst part is that the people we're taking in is extending the crisis. It's like removing pressure from the valve of a nation in dire need for the manpower and the skills of the people fleeing it to solve the crisis.


Not to mention it would be a lot cheaper to help them at the refugee camps. And that it makes far more sense that people culturally alike stay together, instead of scooping them from their societies and putting them somewhere with a different culture and laguage and forcing them to "integrate".
lord_nibbler
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany591 Posts
August 06 2016 05:36 GMT
#10119
On August 06 2016 12:26 GoTuNk! wrote:
Not to mention it would be a lot cheaper to help them at the refugee camps. And that it makes far more sense that people culturally alike stay together, instead of scooping them from their societies and putting them somewhere with a different culture and laguage and forcing them to "integrate".
So go ahead and point me to far right's demand to support foreign refugees in a foreign country with a substantial contribution in the billions. Never heard that one before.

Sure, in an ideal world we would not have this problem. Refugee camps would of course be fully funded by the world and hunger would be a horrible episode in our history books. But that is (sadly) not how things work around here...
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9229 Posts
August 06 2016 07:58 GMT
#10120
On August 06 2016 14:36 lord_nibbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2016 12:26 GoTuNk! wrote:
Not to mention it would be a lot cheaper to help them at the refugee camps. And that it makes far more sense that people culturally alike stay together, instead of scooping them from their societies and putting them somewhere with a different culture and laguage and forcing them to "integrate".
So go ahead and point me to far right's demand to support foreign refugees in a foreign country with a substantial contribution in the billions. Never heard that one before.

Sure, in an ideal world we would not have this problem. Refugee camps would of course be fully funded by the world and hunger would be a horrible episode in our history books. But that is (sadly) not how things work around here...


Instead of quotas, Orban has suggested a Hungarian plan that is designed to contain refugees and migrants in Syria’s neighboring countries, where most of the people trying to reach Europe are coming from. Under the plan a monetary fund will be set up into which nations are to contribute 1% of their EU contributions and 1% of their EU income, reported the BBC.

The money would then be used to strengthen border control and send aid to refugee camps primarily in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/viktor-orban-hungary-refugee-crisis_us_5601b038e4b0fde8b0d021e3
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