EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 260
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warding
Portugal2395 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On September 06 2015 22:59 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: You dont say? I have been arguing with my parents about Japan being in an awesome position for 5 years but they refuse to listen. The fact is that almost all jobs of those who retire disepear to robots and then some. This frees up both resources and people to work in healthcare to provide for the ageing population while maintaining productivity. The decrease in demand from less people coupled with more efficent production drives down prices much faster than it drives down wages if they decrease at all so even if the internal economy shrinks standard of living rises. At the same time unemployment is keept low and the decrease in wage due to robotics makes exports competetive. [...] The fact that they do have a lot more unpaid overtime that is not included in charts probably boosts the productivity quite a bit as well. www.japantimes.co.jp/.../japanese-workers-average-... Diese Seite übersetzen 31.01.2015 - About 40 percent of Japanese workers put in unpaid overtime and their uncompensated overtime adds up to 16 hours a month on average, (google, site doesn't actually load for me  ) and stuff like:Unpaid overtime is killing McDonald's managers Japan is notorious for the long hours of work that companies expect from their employees. This “service” is unpaid overtime that a company expects and often demands from employees. Periodically, this culture of unpaid overtime ends up killing otherwise healthy employees who cannot physically handle the stress and the hours involved. The Japanese have a word (“karoshi”) which translates as roughly “death from overwork.” The latest death by overwork scandal is levied against McDonald’s and is winding its way through courts here in Japan. Recently, a 25-year-old male, who was managing a store in Kawasaki, collapsed and died due to “karoshi.” According to a Daily Yomiuri story, “he was working on Nov 7, 2009 from noon to the following day at 5 a.m. He then came back to work the same day (Nov 8) at noon. Soon after he collapsed and died.” [...] http://www.japantoday.com/category/opinions/view/unpaid-overtime-is-killing-mcdonalds-managers to be honest, I didn't actually bother reading the article that you responded to the moment I read "A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media" in their header. Chances are it's not insane nutjob stuff, who knows but that header alone is enough to make me insta-quit that page lol. I don't know if the 2 things I linked are any more trustworthy, but japantimes sounds decent if it's related to the other formats we know about. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On September 07 2015 02:27 warding wrote: Where is this 800k migrants in Germany in 2015 figure coming from? From that link, the total number of sea arrivals into Europe is in the +350k. I'm fairly sure I read that in a headline on german reuters a couple days ago as well... idk though | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On September 07 2015 02:20 kwizach wrote: Saying a "large portion of the immigrants" have "limited cognitive abilities" is being racist. I totally agree, but I would hope that he meant that they are less educated and it was a translation error. I hope :p On September 07 2015 02:27 warding wrote: Where is this 800k migrants in Germany in 2015 figure coming from? From that link, the total number of sea arrivals into Europe is in the +350k. I read 800k everywhere, I took it from granted, sorry. I'll try to find a valid source for that number. edit : found it http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/19/us-europe-migrants-germany-idUSKCN0QO1QR20150819 On September 07 2015 02:34 Toadesstern wrote: The fact that they do have a lot more unpaid overtime that is not included in charts probably boosts the productivity quite a bit as well. (google, site doesn't actually load for me ) and stuff like:http://www.japantoday.com/category/opinions/view/unpaid-overtime-is-killing-mcdonalds-managers to be honest, I didn't actually bother reading the article that you responded to the moment I read "A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media" in their header. Chances are it's not insane nutjob stuff, who knows but that header alone is enough to make me insta-quit that page lol. I don't know if the 2 things I linked are any more trustworthy, but japantimes sounds decent if it's related to the other formats we know about. Working a lot overtime doesn't mean they are more productive. There are a lot of people just staying late and doing nothing because it's seen poorly to leave before your boss. Germany is fucking productive while being known to leave the job on time and Greece or Portugal work a lot more yet isn't as effective. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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warding
Portugal2395 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On September 07 2015 02:58 warding wrote: Greece or Portugal don't produce as much per hour worked because they work in less capital intensive industries. Nothing to do with "just staying late doing nothing". We've had this conversation before here. Sorry you misinterpreted me, I never meant to say that are slacking off, they obviously work but aren't as effective due to their economy. In Japan case, they are staying at their job WAY later than it should have been, and ofc they are a lot of down time where they don't do a lot. I read an article about it not long ago, I'll try to find it. It's the same as South Korea. edit : http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/22/japan-long-hours-work-culture-overwork-paid-holiday-law Despite studies suggesting that longer hours in the office, workshop or factory floor do not necessarily make people more productive, today’s workers are still nursing a collective hangover from the bubble years of the 1980s. About 22% of Japanese work more than 49 hours a week, compared with 16% of US workers and 11% in France and Germany, according to data compiled by the Japanese government. At 35%, South Korea’s workaholics are even worse off. Yuu Wakebe, a health ministry official overseeing policy on working hours, who admits putting in 100 hours of overtime a month, blames the irresistible pressure to match one’s colleagues, hour for hour. “It is a worker’s right to take paid vacations,” Wakebe said. “But working in Japan involves quite a lot of a volunteer spirit.” | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 06 2015 22:24 Simberto wrote: Yes yes, everyone knows of that silly rule. There is a reason it is not applied. Hiding behind bureaucracy does not solve problems. And if the immigrants get distributed in an orderly way, and treated reasonably in all countries, they will stay in the country they are designated to. Because that is where they get a roof over their heads, and food. The reason they want to get to Germany is that they are informed. Germany accepts 100% of refugees from Syria. Thus you obviously want to get to Germany, as opposed to some other country where you have a 30% chance of being sent back to hell. And i agree that something needs to be done about the refugee camps in turkey. Sadly, that is even harder to do, since Turkey is not a member of the EU, and we can't even convince the EU countries to work together regarding refugees in the EU. Convincing them to take in even more refugees from Turkey is pretty much impossible due to the rampant nationalism. This is a very sad state of affairs. It's not a silly rule. A refugee has a particularized threat of death or imprisonment. This ends once you clear the threat. | ||
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
On September 07 2015 01:57 WhiteDog wrote: I'm not an hypocrite and, as a french, I am fairly aware of the tensions and problems that arise with immigration. But the idea that migrants have limited cognitive abilities is just stupid. It's something that is said for every wave of immigrants - there are, for exemple, articles that state the same about european immigrants coming from germany to the US in the early XXth century. We could, at the very least, prevent ourselves from relaying those stupid ideas. Btw the German immigrants to the US werent the cream of the crop either since at that time mostly the lower socio economic classes emigrated, which are often linked to lower intelligence levels as well. Well cognitive abilities was probably a poor choice of word but lack of education seems a bit soft for 15-20% of refugees who can neither read nor write migrating to an industrial nations whos language they are not capable speaking. Also experience with other immigrants from a similar cultural/ethnic backgrounds does not help to mitigate my concerns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_achievement_among_different_groups_in_Germany#Ethnic_group_differences "Second generation Greek students were more likely to attend a Gymnasium (college preparatory school) than their ethnic German counterparts. The same was true for students belonging to the Chinese or the Jewish-Russian minority. No other ethnic group in Germany were as successful as the Vietnamese, 50% of whom attended a Gymnasium, and the Koreans, 70% of whom attended a Gymnasium. Educational attainment of Muslim students differed by ethnic group. While 50.2% of students from Iran attended either a Realschule or a Gymnasium, only 12.7% of Lebanese students attended one of those schools." The iranian scores show that its not secret discrimination based on appearance but more related to ability/background. Although while iranian scores are better compared to other muslims they arent that great either. http://www.spiegel.de/international/integration-and-education-immigrants-in-germany-falling-behind-a-416429.html "When compared to native German students, first-generation immigrants (born outside of Germany) perform well below the average of first-generation immigrants in the 17 countries considered in the report. And the gap becomes even larger among second-generation immigrants (children with at least one parent born outside the country).Germany is the country with the largest disparity between first and second generation immigrants, the report says. Second-generation students lag behind their native peers by 93 score points, which is equivalent to one and a half proficiency levels. This is particularly disconcerting, as these students have spent their entire school career in Germany." Guess who is dragging the scores down for second generation immigrants even though second generation asians and other Europeans (except Italians) outperform native germans. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XmdrawO.png) Add a religion that is opposed to science, modern law and learning to the mix and improvement seems even more unlikely. I am not sure which term describes these outcomes the best but a difference in cognitive abilities seems to fit... | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On September 07 2015 05:00 Plansix wrote: The shocking revelation that people form less developed countries with oppressive regimes are less educated. Not really a Muslim issue, more of the state of countries in the middle east. You sure about that? While it may be true, I don't really think that that's something you can take on faith because religion does certainly play a role in education and one's views on it. | ||
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
On September 07 2015 05:00 Plansix wrote: The shocking revelation that people form less developed countries with oppressive regimes are less educated. Not really a Muslim issue, more of the state of countries in the middle east. Luckily the vietnamese refugees were highly educated and didnt come from a communist dictatorship... | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 07 2015 05:05 LegalLord wrote: You sure about that? While it may be true, I don't really think that that's something you can take on faith because religion does certainly play a role in education and one's views on it. I am sure education would lead to the country being more secular. The EU proved this by educating its population. Of course, like in EU, the people who gain power through the religion would oppose this. That has nothting to do with the religion itself, as Christianity was used to justify some horrid shit back in the day. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On September 07 2015 05:07 Yuljan wrote: Luckily the vietnamese refugees were highly educated and didnt come from a communist dictatorship... the point was the the term "limited cognitive ability" has a heavy implication on it being a biological issue if I'm not mistaken. Would be nice if someone whos native language is english could clear this up but when I hear that term I think of stuff like... people who had an accident and ever since are left with some kind of braindamage, people who had some kind of problem during birth and thus have some issue with their brains, that kind of stuff. Whereas poor education is more like people from places that have a poor education system. Like Syria, Afghanistan, Chicago and so on + Show Spoiler + hehehe. Please don't kill me for that pun | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On September 07 2015 05:07 Plansix wrote: I am sure education would lead to the country being more secular. The EU proved this by educating its population. Of course, like in EU, the people who gain power through the religion would oppose this. That has nothting to do with the religion itself, as Christianity was used to justify some horrid shit back in the day. I don't know, muslim who migrated to secular countries have difficulties to integrate. What is really weird though is that 1st generation of migrant are pretty much integrated, but now the third is completly clashing with the EU culture while imposing their ideological values to the rest. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 07 2015 05:18 Faust852 wrote: I don't know, muslim who migrated to secular countries have difficulties to integrate. What is really weird though is that 1st generation of migrant are pretty much integrated, but now the third is completly clashing with the EU culture while imposing their ideological values to the rest. This is nothing new. America has this problem when the Irish Catholics immigrated and everyone believed they did whatever the Pope said. The simple fact was that the Irish were from a uneducated peasant culture and the church were the most educated people around. So they listened to the church first. It took them well over 50 years to really shed that stigma even after they stopped hanging on every announcement from the Vatican. And we still deal with that shit with the views of birthcontrol, divorce and women's health. But yes, they are not going to instantly become part of the EU overnight night. Secular Muslim beliefs have to develop naturally in any country. And they have. People forget how secular Iran was prior to the coup. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On September 07 2015 05:42 Plansix wrote: This is nothing new. America has this problem when the Irish Catholics immigrated and everyone believed they did whatever the Pope said. The simple fact was that the Irish were from a uneducated peasant culture and the church were the most educated people around. So they listened to the church first. It took them well over 50 years to really shed that stigma even after they stopped hanging on every announcement from the Vatican. And we still deal with that shit with the views of birthcontrol, divorce and women's health. But yes, they are not going to instantly become part of the EU overnight night. Secular Muslim beliefs have to develop naturally in any country. And they have. People forget how secular Iran was prior to the coup. No, the issue is backward. 1st generation had almost no issue integrating, the issue is that the children of their children are radicalizing for some reason. I posted a study that said that while only 15% of the 55+ muslim were for a shariah law in EU, more than 50 in the >30 were in favor of it. That's my issue, there is a "renouveau" of extremism coming from muslim that didn't exist before. I have some clue as to why but it would be conjecture from my part. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On September 07 2015 05:07 Plansix wrote: I am sure education would lead to the country being more secular. The EU proved this by educating its population. Of course, like in EU, the people who gain power through the religion would oppose this. That has nothting to do with the religion itself, as Christianity was used to justify some horrid shit back in the day. And yet, to think that religion has no bearing on whether or not a person will be more open to further education is naive at best. Culture is not incidental - it influences the development of a nation as well. For as much flak as Mitt Romney got for saying that Israel is more successful than Palestine because of a more effective culture, he was quite right. And those who tend to value education less will probably be less willing to cooperate with a push for more of it. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 07 2015 05:46 Faust852 wrote: No, the issue is backward. 1st generation had almost no issue integrating, the issue is that the children of their children are radicalizing for some reason. I posted a study that said that while only 15% of the 55+ muslim were for a shariah law in EU, more than 50 in the >30 were in favor of it. That's my issue, there is a "renouveau" of extremism coming from muslim that didn't exist before. I have some clue as to why but it would be conjecture from my part. That might have more to do with the fact that they are easier targets for extremist. They have no personal experience dealing with them and likely have external reasons for being attracted to radicalization. And there is a section of the US population that want's Christian law to be the law of the land, even though our constitution forbids it. They are not huge, but they exist and are a problem. I would not be shocked if the sections of the population were proportional and with similar age ranges. Everything you have stated are just problems that need solutions, not inherent flaws of the Muslims. Radicalization is nothing new. The US has a small, but noticeable section of its population return to Germany in WW2 to "Heed the Call of the Fatherland." But I think we can make the argument that all Germans back then were inherently Nazi's due to their culture. On September 07 2015 05:54 LegalLord wrote: And yet, to think that religion has no bearing on whether or not a person will be more open to further education is naive at best. Culture is not incidental - it influences the development of a nation as well. For as much flak as Mitt Romney got for saying that Israel is more successful than Palestine because of a more effective culture, he was quite right. And those who tend to value education less will probably be less willing to cooperate with a push for more of it. Nothing you said was untrue. But nothing to said is set in stone either. People can change and leave culture behind. And all the arguments being made are the same ones that were made against every immigrant population in history. During the Irish immigration to the US, you would have found the exact same claims against them and their culture. http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/nineteen/nkeyinfo/nromcath.htm This break down provides some insight and you can see the parallels between the concerns of people in the EU now and those of the US in the 1850. | ||
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