EPTthanks Putin. see you in hell you fucking piece of shit.
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1355
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
|
tankgirl
Canada407 Posts
thanks Putin. see you in hell you fucking piece of shit. | ||
KwarK
United States42656 Posts
On March 04 2022 12:16 Sermokala wrote: What is the EU attitude towards inviting turkey into the union? It seems with the war and the change in the situation both parties would benefit a lot from it. Turkey needs to get in fast with its currency meltdown and can offer a gateway into the middle east with some very well-performing drones that are operating in Ukraine. Opposed. The EU is a full economic union, there was a no such thing as national citizenship when it comes to economic activity in the EU. A Turk in France would have the same access to economic activity as a Texan in Iowa. The economic rights US citizenship give a Texan in Iowa would be given to a Turk in France. EU membership is a big deal, full economic integration. The existing expansion east has likely done significant harm to many western economies because they cannot effectively find a market for their goods within the weaker economies. Turkey is not coming in as an equal partner to France etc. Politically Turkey doesn’t meet the criteria either. Erdoğan is a dictator that jails his political opponents, controls the media, limits political freedoms, and appoints his cronies to key civil service and judicial positions. Nobody wants it and nobody benefits from it. Whatever advantages there could be can be attained separately without EU membership. | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6230 Posts
It's a huge positive that Europe is now thinking more seriously about its security, but the EU as an instrument is just so complex, and joining has enormous implications for all the economies involved. It's wild to take on all the other aspects just to get the military component. If Europe wants a military alliance with Turkey, it should make a military alliance with Turkey. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good idea to take the opportunity to reel some of the EU's periphery in closer. Erdogan's throne is looking encouragingly shaky now and it's smart to lean into the relationship, but they still light years from being able to enter the union even if he falls. I admit there's a lot of symbolic value in the EU, particularly for Ukraine who will have to be completely remade as a nation anyway, but even then candidate status and a bespoke defence commitment is about as far as you could go. The idea that EU accession is a short-term possibility for anyone except Finland/Sweden is just a distraction, imo. | ||
|
Yurie
11822 Posts
On March 04 2022 12:16 Sermokala wrote: What is the EU attitude towards inviting turkey into the union? It seems with the war and the change in the situation both parties would benefit a lot from it. Turkey needs to get in fast with its currency meltdown and can offer a gateway into the middle east with some very well-performing drones that are operating in Ukraine. Turkey was trending towards EU membership. Then Erdoğan happened. As long as he is dictator of Turkey there is no opening for them joining. It is a union of democratic states, there was recently even legislation passed to put pressure on member states that are trending towards dictatorships. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28665 Posts
On March 04 2022 14:42 Belisarius wrote: A lot of people seem to be making that mistake right now. It's a huge positive that Europe is now thinking more seriously about its security, but the EU as an instrument is just so complex, and joining has enormous implications for all the economies involved. It's wild to take on all the other aspects just to get the military component. If Europe wants a military alliance with Turkey, it should make a military alliance with Turkey. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good idea to take the opportunity to reel some of the EU's periphery in closer. Erdogan's throne is looking encouragingly shaky now and it's smart to lean into the relationship, but they still light years from being able to enter the union even if he falls. I admit there's a lot of symbolic value in the EU, particularly for Ukraine who will have to be completely remade as a nation anyway, but even then candidate status and a bespoke defence commitment is about as far as you could go. The idea that EU accession is a short-term possibility for anyone except Finland/Sweden is just a distraction, imo. Finland and Sweden are both eu members.(not in nato, though.) | ||
|
justanothertownie
16318 Posts
On March 04 2022 15:48 Liquid`Drone wrote: Finland and Sweden are both eu members.(not in nato, though.) Unlike Turkey who is part of NATO. So the military alliance already exists. It makes no sense to also add them to the EU from a military standpoint. Besides the obvious other reasons not to do that. | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6230 Posts
On March 04 2022 15:48 Liquid`Drone wrote: Finland and Sweden are both eu members.(not in nato, though.) ...ehh yup, it's you guys who aren't, my bad And yes, really that just highlights how weird it would be for turkey to join for the sake of defence | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands21668 Posts
On March 04 2022 12:16 Sermokala wrote: Turkey is a dictatorship and should absolutely not be part of the EU until that fundamentally changes.What is the EU attitude towards inviting turkey into the union? It seems with the war and the change in the situation both parties would benefit a lot from it. Turkey needs to get in fast with its currency meltdown and can offer a gateway into the middle east with some very well-performing drones that are operating in Ukraine. | ||
|
Dan HH
Romania9118 Posts
| ||
|
LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 07 2022 02:06 Dan HH wrote: After 2 years of the pandemic and now this, I'm exhausted of seeing and dealing with what 24h news channels and Facebook are doing to people's minds. The top searches on the largest online marketplace here are gas mask and potassium iodide. Exchanges are selling Euros at ridiculous mark-ups as they're running out of physical notes. You can't even buy a kebab without the shopkeep starting small talk about nukes and conscription. For what it's worth, I've severely cut down on my own social media usage, especially Twitter and Facebook, and pruned my news down to just "trusted to be level-headed in reporting" sources because you can't simply block it all out either. As I mentioned elsewhere, it was long overdue since these sources do a whole lot to generate excess anxiety. Even in peacetime, but dialed up to eleven now. There's always the competing impulses of wanting to avoid news-induced anxiety and wanting to stay up-to-date with important events in the world. In truth, there's some level of "keeping up to date" that we do not need. Twitter, the up-to-date source for unreliable and often fake news, is the poster child of being a bridge too far. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
| ||
|
Sent.
Poland9194 Posts
Hungary: Orban's ruling party leads by wide margin — partial results Preliminary results show Prime Minister Viktor Orban's ruling Fidesz party is comfortably ahead of their opposition rivals following Sunday's parliamentary election.Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban's ruling Fidesz party was comfortably ahead of their opposition rivals based on partial results from Sunday's national election. With 43% of votes tallied, Orban's Fidesz-led coalition had won 57% of the votes versus 31% for a six-party opposition alliance. The polls took place amid accusations by opposition groups and international observers that Orban and his right-wing Fidesz party are favored by a widespread pro-government bias in the public media and heavy gerrymandering of election districts. Russia's invasion of Ukraine, however, gave the opposition United For Hungary a handhold. Its candidate for prime minister, Peter Marki-Zay, has highlighted Orban's close political and business relations with Moscow and called for Hungary to act in concert with EU partners on sanctions and weapons deliveries. Orban, a longtime ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, has stated that Hungary must remain neutral and maintain its close economic ties with Moscow, including continuing to import Russian gas and oil. Although he has supported an EU decision to send arms to Ukraine, he has rejected allowing weapons to be shipped from Hungarian territory, saying such a move could pose a security risk. "This isn't our war, we have to stay out of it," Orban said at his final campaign rally on Friday. https://www.dw.com/en/hungary-orbans-ruling-party-leads-by-wide-margin-partial-results/a-61344177 They got 44.87% in previous elections, which means Hungarian opposition actually lost a lot of support in those 4 years (if the final results don't change). | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Silvanel
Poland4726 Posts
| ||
|
Sent.
Poland9194 Posts
| ||
|
Harris1st
Germany6924 Posts
On April 04 2022 06:05 Sent. wrote: Looks like it was wrong to think Russian invasion will discourage Hungarians from voting for Orban. His party won the elections again. They got 44.87% in previous elections, which means Hungarian opposition actually lost a lot of support in those 4 years (if the final results don't change). Any Hungarian here to explain wtf is going on in your country? This just baffles me | ||
|
Dan HH
Romania9118 Posts
On April 04 2022 18:51 Harris1st wrote: Any Hungarian here to explain wtf is going on in your country? This just baffles me There's not much to explain. Fidesz won a supermajority in 2010 which they used to change the constitution and electoral laws and give themselves every imaginable advantage in future elections. Now on top of media control, they outspend all other parties combined something absurd like 7 to 1. The only way they can lose is if they get too greedy and starve people. | ||
|
D_lux
Hungary60 Posts
On April 04 2022 18:51 Harris1st wrote: Any Hungarian here to explain wtf is going on in your country? This just baffles me I live in Hungary, as I was writing this I realized I lack the vocabulary to really explain my point of view. So this is just one aspect of the many things that helped Orbán to power and helped him stay in power. I think a major and forgotten event is also to blame here. Back in 2006 the then prime minister of Hungary, Ferenc Gyurcsány, basically admitted in a private party meeting that they literally forged statistics in order to cover up of not doing anything for the past few years. A famous quote from him: " ..we were lying in the morning, at noon and during the evening.." After the tape was released the Hungarian left basically crumbled, the 2008 financial crisis even worsened their positions only to be washed away by the next election in 2010 by Viktor Orbán. He didn't have to do anything to gain 2/3 majority in the parliament. This basically granted him Palpatine levels of power in the parliament. Its kind of impossible to summarize 12 years of Orban reign in a few sentences, but basically his campaign always mentioned Gyurcsany Ferenc as the guy who wants to get back into power and would then destroy Hungary again as he did before. Since Gyurcsany never stopped being a politician every party or alliance he is part of will be tarnished by his name. In 2022 Gyurcsany joined forces with 6 other parties in the opposition but for many people, it seems, he is still the greater of the two evils. I know my post is not nuanced and probably oversimplified and glossed over an enormous time period, but I really do think this was and still is a major contribution to Orban's reign. | ||
|
Laurens
Belgium4541 Posts
| ||
|
Slydie
1915 Posts
On April 04 2022 21:49 D_lux wrote: I live in Hungary, as I was writing this I realized I lack the vocabulary to really explain my point of view. So this is just one aspect of the many things that helped Orbán to power and helped him stay in power. I think a major and forgotten event is also to blame here. Back in 2006 the then prime minister of Hungary, Ferenc Gyurcsány, basically admitted in a private party meeting that they literally forged statistics in order to cover up of not doing anything for the past few years. A famous quote from him: " ..we were lying in the morning, at noon and during the evening.." After the tape was released the Hungarian left basically crumbled, the 2008 financial crisis even worsened their positions only to be washed away by the next election in 2010 by Viktor Orbán. He didn't have to do anything to gain 2/3 majority in the parliament. This basically granted him Palpatine levels of power in the parliament. Its kind of impossible to summarize 12 years of Orban reign in a few sentences, but basically his campaign always mentioned Gyurcsany Ferenc as the guy who wants to get back into power and would then destroy Hungary again as he did before. Since Gyurcsany never stopped being a politician every party or alliance he is part of will be tarnished by his name. In 2022 Gyurcsany joined forces with 6 other parties in the opposition but for many people, it seems, he is still the greater of the two evils. I know my post is not nuanced and probably oversimplified and glossed over an enormous time period, but I really do think this was and still is a major contribution to Orban's reign. Thanks a lot! It is pretty baffling Gyurcsany was able to continue in politics after something like that. Also, it seems like you should get away from Hungar if you can. | ||
| ||
