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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On August 02 2014 07:14 Paljas wrote: considering that DinoMight very likely never actually visited Israel, I'd say that his claim about the statement being ridiculous is more ridiculous than any statment in the media i have seen Don't be mean. Everybody love everybody it's TL in here. | ||
Koorb
France266 Posts
On August 02 2014 06:31 WhiteDog wrote: Did you read the article ? You see how detailed it is ? How much referrences ? I guess reading is useless when you're so sure of yourself. Btw acrimed was created long before the NPA. Yes it was. It was created for the sole purpose of backing the 1995-1996 anti-goverment protests. Do you feel confortable with a "neutral observatory of the medias" which has had deeply-held political belief since its creation? Don't you think that an entity which makes no mystery of its left-wing, alter-globalization agenda may not be completely impartial for matters related to the Arab-Israeli conflict? As to the articles you linked, here's my take for what it's worth: The first one at least tries provide evidence to back up its discourse, but the conclusion the author gives is orientated. The last paragraph, just before the signature of Mr Salingue, is quite symptomatic in this regard. If a critic of the medias feels the need to go on a history lesson which put the blame of the current situation in Gaza on Israel's shoulders alone, while making no mention at all of Hamas' ill deeds... The second article is sometimes dishonest (even if it is not to the author's liking, the fact is that the Israeli soldier who was taken by Hamas is a the hostage of a terrorist group, not a POW captured by a standing army), sometimes odd (who cares that the journalists often refer to the IDF as Tsahal? Is it really that much of a bias in favor of Israel?), sometimes plainly and blatantly political (the separation wall refered to as "a concrete-made shame", the veiled critic of the French intervention in Mali). In conclusion, a critic of the alleged bias of mainstream medias which is quite biased itself. | ||
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Holy_AT
Austria978 Posts
Its like the Falkland conflict. Things in Argentina are not going well? Lets shift the focus and invade some island that will be the most important focal point of all of Argentina now and all other problems cease to exist. This happened in all neighboring Arab countries at some point in the last 100 years and even within the internal Palestinian Hamas, PLO and what not power struggles. And its only purpose is not to serve the people but to secure their own power. And Israel does the same thing: Oh tunnels ? Yeah we have known for years but lets shift the focus on that to show the Israel people that we fight and care for them. The problem is mostly politicians, dictators or other leaders who want to secure or gain more power. They point out an enemy make everyone afraid of it so they support their leader in overcoming this enemy. Basically its always the wish to govern or rule from a small group that leads to this in the smaller or in the larger picture. I mean what would be the worst outcome for Hamas or the right wing Israeli leaders? Its not the destruction of one side because they would be dead and would not care anymore. Its peace because who needs right winger nationalists if there is no enemy in sight and other things become important? Who needs the militant arm of the Hamas and the militant leaders when there is peace? No one, well so lets continue this game because its a win win for Hamas and Israeli leadership and only the people have to suffer, which is a good thing to them because it means more support. Its a conundrum when you ask who profits most from from the Israeli Invasion ? Its probably Hamas. And who Profits most when Hamas launches rockets towards Israel? Its the Israeli right wing hawks. And so the tacit arrangement between Palestinian Leaders and Israeli leaders continues and continues and continues ... | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On August 02 2014 07:21 Koorb wrote: Yes it was. It was created for the sole purpose of backing the 1995-1996 anti-goverment protests. Do you feel confortable with a "neutral observatory of the medias" which has had deeply-held political belief since its creation? Don't you think that an entity which makes no mystery of its left-wing, alter-globalization agenda may not be completely impartial for matters related to the Arab-Israeli conflict? As to the articles you linked, here's my take for what it's worth: The first one at least tries provide evidence to back up its discourse, but the conclusion the author gives is orientated. The last paragraph, just before the signature of Mr Salingue, is quite symptomatic in this regard. If a critic of the medias feels the need to go on a history lesson which put the blame of the current situation in Gaza on Israel's shoulders alone, while making no mention at all of Hamas' ill deeds... The second article is sometimes dishonest (even if it is not to the author's liking, the fact is that the Israeli soldier who was taken by Hamas is a the hostage of a terrorist group, not a POW captured by a standing army), sometimes odd (who cares that the journalists often refer to the IDF as Tsahal? Is it really that much of a bias in favor of Israel?), sometimes plainly and blatantly political (the separation wall refered to as "a concrete-made shame", the veiled critic of the French intervention in Mali). In conclusion, a critic of the alleged bias of mainstream medias which is quite biased itself. I don't believe in your view on neutrality anyway. I'm a Weberian, I believe that neutrality can only happen in relation to certain values considered and publicly exposed as facts - axiological neutrality. Acrimed have specific value, their own gods, and this situation cannot be avoided in human society. But they can still be objectiv towards some specific objects because they prevent themselves from making judgements on values, expose their own value publicly and study specific materials with a methodology grounded in an epistemology. What's amazing is that, in a country where what 80% of the people consider media biased, where everybody is unhappy about modern journalism, the state of our "independant" press, you criticize a completly benevolant group because they have far left value. Do you know that The Figaro is openly right ? That Le Monde is a centric left journal ? But more than that, they are paid by rich people and because of that cannot say everything they could. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On August 02 2014 07:14 Paljas wrote: considering that DinoMight very likely never actually visited Israel, I'd say that his claim about the statement being ridiculous is more ridiculous than any statment in the media i have seen I don't see how me visiting Israel is relevant at all. | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
On August 02 2014 07:14 Paljas wrote: considering that DinoMight very likely never actually visited Israel, I'd say that his claim about the statement being ridiculous is more ridiculous than any statment in the media i have seen Some of us have been on a birthright trip and still aren't dumb enough to think that "you haven't been to Israel, you don't know anything!!" is in any way shape or form an argument. Because, you know, I can bet you never had to live in Gaza without an international passport. Boom! Dumb argument countered by itself! | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27349 Posts
On August 02 2014 07:46 ImFromPortugal wrote: Is this legit? www.addictinginfo.org/2014/07/31/i-killed-13-children-today-serving-israeli-soldier-gloats-on-twitter/ Hopefully not. That said if enough people believe it is, it will have much the same effect. I wonder how many reposts it's had before being verified or whatever, probably a ton. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On August 02 2014 08:02 Jormundr wrote: Some of us have been on a birthright trip and still aren't dumb enough to think that "you haven't been to Israel, you don't know anything!!" is in any way shape or form an argument. Because, you know, I can bet you never had to live in Gaza without an international passport. Boom! Dumb argument countered by itself! did you even read what post i responed too? claiming that people in Israel dont live in fear from the rocket attacks is either ignorant or just dumb. It's basically belittlement of terrorists attacks. Claiming such things without ever been in a sitaution similar is just bullshit. your comment about Gaza is pretty nonsensical too, as i have a clear pro Palestine standpoint in this conflict. to the article posted above: that article is pretty bad (cant tell the difference between instagramm and twitter), so this whole things seems sketchy. Also, soliders have gone to jail for posting stuff like that, so yea, I wouldnt really believe that it isnt fake. | ||
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
Whoever bet '90 minutes' in the "when is ceasefire broken" pool, you won! Please collect your winnings: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28606099 Of course Hamas denies involvement in the kidnapping. Maybe aliens did it. (To my knowledge tunnel demolition was allowed during ceasefire and Hamas acceded to this.) | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
in terms of fear, israel does have more safety net from actual danger and everyday infrastructure. however, one must also not forget this view only comes from those only observing. people in israel dont give a single fuck about this, fear is fear and having to worry about your family being hit by hamas rocket throws every statistics out the window. | ||
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
remember some people in gaza were literally drowning in shit because israel wouldnt allow new supplies to come through for fixing sewage facilities. ironically hamas fired rockets at israel with old sewage pipes. truly a humanitarian tragedy. Imagine all the internal fortifications Hamas could have built with those supplies | ||
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eRoN_
91 Posts
On August 02 2014 08:02 Jormundr wrote: Some of us have been on a birthright trip and still aren't dumb enough to think that "you haven't been to Israel, you don't know anything!!" is in any way shape or form an argument. Because, you know, I can bet you never had to live in Gaza without an international passport. Boom! Dumb argument countered by itself! Please explain your "birthright" | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/01/who-is-behind-gaza-s-mass-execution.html | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
But don't discard the idea of civilian execution that fast, it happened in Israeli's history, quite a few times actually. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
On August 02 2014 09:35 WhiteDog wrote: To be fair, we will never be able to completly enlight what happen in Gaza, at least not in the next few months, until an independant UN investigation start to work on the subject (or a humanitarian organisation such as amnesty international), but there are already various suspicion of war crime, like there were in the last attack - that lead to the goldstone report, a report that goldstone rejected afterward. But don't discard the idea of civilian execution that fast, it happened in Israeli's history, quite a few times actually. he's got a point, the UN is pretty experienced at the whole "atrocities against civilians" thing | ||
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