EPTAmazon acquires Twitch.tv - Page 28
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On August 07 2014 15:03 Xiphias wrote: Is not just playing music on stream considered a mashup which is covered under fair use laws? Well I guess if the channel is partnered and it is making money off of it, then maybe not. Also twitch is always making money off of any streams, but how much is due to background music? I guess this is just in general a mess when it comes to laws. In general though, it is not breaking copyright to play some copyrighted music on a VOD you are not making any money on. No, what playing music while streaming is not fair use. Although there is no legal precedent, the point of a stream is to play the game, you may be able to stretch the meaning of fair use to cover the performance of a game. However music isn't a part of a game performance. It would be more comparable to the background music used in dining establishments (which gets businesses sued over if they use it without a licence http://www2.qsrmagazine.com/articles/exclusives/1209/copyright-1.phtml) It is generally accepted that music contributes very little to the streaming experience, and there is no way courts would believe if suddenly everyone said that music was part of the streaming art. Twitch is an American company and will have to follow American law. And even if Twitch reincorperated in another country they would still have to follow the law or risk threats to their core business. Note: I am talking about playing copyrighted music that is not licensed by the streamers. Certainly there are issues with this system because of how hastily implemented this system was. It is pretty clear that Twitch was just hit with a lawsuit or about to be hit with one. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
Also i sued my neighboor. He put the sound of his computer too loud and i could hear music through the wall ! He didn't have a licence to broadcast. That's why i don't put music in the car, the passanger could sue me if i don't have the right to broadcast to his ears ! | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 07 2014 22:50 FFW_Rude wrote: So... Dailymotion or Azubu TV ? i'm starting to wonder... Also i sued my neighboor. He put the sound of his computer too loud and i could hear music through the wall ! He didn't have a licence to broadcast. I am not an expert on copyright law, but I am pretty sure it needs to be your music and he needs to be making money off of it. Unless he is running some weird DJ system where he charges to play the music for your entire block from the roof of his house, I think he is pretty safe from liability. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On August 07 2014 22:52 Plansix wrote: I am not an expert on copyright law, but I am pretty sure it needs to be your music and he needs to be making money off of it. Unless he is running some weird DJ system where he charges to play the music for your entire block from the roof of his house, I think he is pretty safe from liability. I don't make money on twitch vods... So... why would i be muted ? You know that on youtube i got banned because i used copyright music on a CS video ? Yeah... it was my band.... Why oh why would i be muted because i have vods with music inside... I don't make money, i'm not hurting the music industry. it's stupid when nintendo forbid to broadcast their game. It's equally stupid to do that for music... | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 07 2014 22:55 FFW_Rude wrote: I don't make money on twitch vods... So... why would i be muted ? You know that on youtube i got banned because i used copyright music on a CS video ? Yeah... it was my band.... Why oh why would i be muted because i have vods with music inside... I don't make money, i'm not hurting the music industry. it's stupid when nintendo forbid to broadcast their game. It's equally stupid to do that for music... The issue isn't the broadcast, its the recording of music and making unauthorized copies. The problem for Twitch is that they are making copies of music they A) Don't own and B) don't have a license to record. Due to that, the record labels for sue them for failing to delete or police their VoD system to avoid making unauthorized copies of music Twitch does not own. The same would be true if I live broadcast a movie over twitch. I have said it before, copy right law in the US is a "protect it or lose it" system. You can't camp a copyright, you must actively defend it if people are using it without your approval. And the way copy right law works right now, the "gate keep" or owner of the system that is allowing the copyright violation can be held liable for not policing their system. That is why both Youtube and Twitch have put a system like this in place. And it will happen for any other streaming service that wants to operate in the US. | ||
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sephiria
106 Posts
does that mean once they merge, there will be no more streaming for the german market? interesting. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On August 07 2014 23:06 sephiria wrote: Youtube streams have never been accessable from Germany as far as I know? does that mean once they merge, there will be no more streaming for the german market? interesting. Even if they don't merge Twitch (any another other video holding website) will in the future will stop vod access in germany and possibly even live streaming for streams where they detect copyrighted music and video because they can be liable for copyrighted video and music. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_YouTube_videos_in_Germany | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On August 07 2014 23:04 Plansix wrote: The issue isn't the broadcast, its the recording of music and making unauthorized copies. The problem for Twitch is that they are making copies of music they A) Don't own and B) don't have a license to record. Due to that, the record labels for sue them for failing to delete or police their VoD system to avoid making unauthorized copies of music Twitch does not own. The same would be true if I live broadcast a movie over twitch. I have said it before, copy right law in the US is a "protect it or lose it" system. You can't camp a copyright, you must actively defend it if people are using it without your approval. And the way copy right law works right now, the "gate keep" or owner of the system that is allowing the copyright violation can be held liable for not policing their system. That is why both Youtube and Twitch have put a system like this in place. And it will happen for any other streaming service that wants to operate in the US. That's just pure bullshit... I don't get why people that get revenue from streaming, vods, yt etc.. don't pay a percentage of their revenue when they use something they don't own. They did that on YT at a point. If you used a copyrighted song, you could let it and the owners could run commercial on your videos. But for people that don't make revenue of streaming and stuff... that's just bs. Also their is no way to prove that you have the rights of the music. I spent days with YT trying to get my channel back at some point because they banned me for a song of my own band... and i let it go because it was just a stupid channel but i never got it back. I used to be in that industry and i left it because it just makes me puke. I know i know.. i should have a rational discussion. I fail to do so Plansix. sorry about that  i know you like to discuss things and debate but i'm just angry about this industry.I had to vent. | ||
Falling
Canada11279 Posts
I don't understand why the game's ambient music would be included. That makes streaming pretty much any game untenable unless you are the sort that prefers to play gamess in dead silence... or to Kevin MacLeod's jazz. | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On August 08 2014 01:10 Falling wrote: Prepare to have Twitch filled entirely with Kevin MacLeod for background music. I don't understand why the game's ambient music would be included. That makes streaming pretty much any game untenable unless you are the sort that prefers to play gamess in dead silence... or to Kevin MacLeod's jazz. I can only see this as stupidity on twitch's part for taking a service that includes game music. If twitch's basic assumption is that game companies are okay with their games being streamed/saved, the same assumption should be made about their music. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On August 08 2014 01:21 Conti wrote: I can only see this as stupidity on twitch's part for taking a service that includes game music. If twitch's basic assumption is that game companies are okay with their games being streamed/saved, the same assumption should be made about their music. Twitch is trying to cover their ass from the swarms of copyright lawyers and lawsuits. Music publishers have a scorched earth policy in that regards. Gaming companies do not. It's relatively hard to tell which is which, so the initial rollout is bound to mute all copyrighted music. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On August 07 2014 23:04 Plansix wrote: The issue isn't the broadcast, its the recording of music and making unauthorized copies. The problem for Twitch is that they are making copies of music they A) Don't own and B) don't have a license to record. Due to that, the record labels for sue them for failing to delete or police their VoD system to avoid making unauthorized copies of music Twitch does not own. The same would be true if I live broadcast a movie over twitch. I have said it before, copy right law in the US is a "protect it or lose it" system. You can't camp a copyright, you must actively defend it if people are using it without your approval. And the way copy right law works right now, the "gate keep" or owner of the system that is allowing the copyright violation can be held liable for not policing their system. That is why both Youtube and Twitch have put a system like this in place. And it will happen for any other streaming service that wants to operate in the US. They are also making images of something they don't own, and don't seem to give a fuck about that. They even basically charge for acess to material copyrighted by another company. They are not simply deleting copyrighted content, they are deleting material under free use, material from people that own the rights and material that was given permission specifically for that purpose. You can't pretend this kind of behavior is fine and makes even a minimal amount of sense. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
Just a question, what stops me from playing Beethoven, Mozart or Wagner ? Their music is not copyrighted. Can we have one new "High class" Twitch ? I know that the individual performances are copyrighted, but how do you actually prove who played it without some sort of investigation ? | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On August 08 2014 01:59 Pr0wler wrote: And as predicted, Twitch became one boring place. Just a question, what stops me from playing Beethoven, Mozart or Wagner ? Their music is not copyrighted. Can we have one new "High class" Twitch ? I know that the individual performances are copyrighted, but how do you actually prove who played it without some sort of investigation ? That would be pretty sweet actually. Nothing but classical music in the background. | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On August 08 2014 01:59 Pr0wler wrote: And as predicted, Twitch became one boring place. Just a question, what stops me from playing Beethoven, Mozart or Wagner ? Their music is not copyrighted. Can we have one new "High class" Twitch ? I know that the individual performances are copyrighted, but how do you actually prove who played it without some sort of investigation ? The music itself is not copyrighted, but as far as I know, the performance is by whatever orchestra that performed it. So unless you have your own public domain orchestra, you're out of luck there, too. | ||
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
On August 08 2014 01:21 Conti wrote: I can only see this as stupidity on twitch's part for taking a service that includes game music. If twitch's basic assumption is that game companies are okay with their games being streamed/saved, the same assumption should be made about their music. It's not exactly the fault of Twitch if a game developer says it's fine to stream their game video but it's not fine to stream their game audio. Also it wouldn't make much sense to use a content id system and then pick one that doesn't check for everything, I don't think being "a little safe" from copyright claims will cut it. | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On August 07 2014 08:11 Kurr wrote: But with twitch? There is some, albeit small relatively, competition and if hitbox (and maybe ustream/others?) play their cards right their could steal several good streamers and this could quickly get out of control for twitch. Just imagine if a dozen or so popular streamers go to hitbox. Suddenly, it's a very real competitor and twitch has to back-pedal or die within a few weeks. It wouldn't be the craziest thing we've ever seen on the internet. Ustream became shit, that's why people left for Justin.tv back in the day. I doubt they know how to play their cards right. On August 07 2014 09:06 Plexa wrote: Well, time to make a hitbox account. Got mine months ago  On August 07 2014 18:57 Spaylz wrote: Let's get real, how popular would Darude be without Twitch? Huh?! ? It's a pretty popular song regardless...unless you are like 13 years old or live in the woods. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On August 08 2014 01:59 Pr0wler wrote: And as predicted, Twitch became one boring place. Just a question, what stops me from playing Beethoven, Mozart or Wagner ? Their music is not copyrighted. Can we have one new "High class" Twitch ? I know that the individual performances are copyrighted, but how do you actually prove who played it without some sort of investigation ? If they think the material is copyrighted they can flag it, they don't need to investigate it or prove it in any way. It's an automated service, so if the music is part of the list (or similar enough to it), your content should be muted. Probally not the case for classical music. On August 08 2014 02:05 Broodwurst wrote: It's not exactly the fault of Twitch if a game developer says it's fine to stream their game video but it's not fine to stream their game audio. Also it wouldn't make much sense to use a content id system and then pick one that doesn't check for everything, I don't think being "a little safe" from copyright claims will cut it. They developers don't say that. At least they were proven not to have in several cases. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 08 2014 01:59 SKC wrote: They are also making images of something they don't own, and don't seem to give a fuck about that. They even basically charge for acess to material copyrighted by another company. They are not simply deleting copyrighted content, they are deleting material under free use, material from people that own the rights and material that was given permission specifically for that purpose. You can't pretend this kind of behavior is fine and makes even a minimal amount of sense. It makes total sense if someone is attempting to sue you, and if the video game companies were going to do that, they would have a long time ago. Also, they are not copying the code of the game, just an image of it being played. This is the stuff people have to deal with when you have open broadcast platforms where people can make money. Also, it is far more effective to flag everything and then sort through the claims that were done in error. Don't think that was their master plan, but it is generally better to be overly safe than not. The claims will get sorted out after the fact. | ||
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