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Amazon acquires Twitch.tv - Page 30
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Grettin
42384 Posts
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On August 08 2014 02:52 Plansix wrote: Yes, they clearly are very concerned about violating copyright for music, since that is what the whole system revolves around. I am 99% sure they have been contacted by a record label or they have received cease and desist letters from them. You don't do this stuff for no reason, its because one or a number of record labels is threatening to sue you. The CEO is specifically saying they didn't want to flag content for game music, which is happening all the freaking time, which tells they were using a terrible system they were not forced to use, copyrighted or not, and the issue was mostly streamers using their own music. They want to change that. It's obvious it's a bad system, it's obvious a game streaming content cannot expect to flag ingame music as not legal content. He said the developers are fine with it. Do you still think they were "forced" to use the current system and there was no alternative? | ||
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Grettin
42384 Posts
On August 08 2014 02:56 Plansix wrote: On the subject: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2cwfu2/i_am_twitch_ceo_emmett_shear_ask_me_almost/cjjp083 + Show Spoiler + "Game companies have the public stance (and private stance directly with Twitch) that they allow anyone to stream their games. See http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1egayn/lets_build_a_list_of_game_studios_that_allow/ for example. This isn't a fair use argument, it's a generally available license that you're taking advantage of. Broadcasting unlicensed music in the background is not fair use either, and there is no generally available license. Therefore this is not something that we want our broadcasters to accept liability for (nor do we want to accept liability for it either). They're completely different cases, and the logic is different in each." And the subject of stuff being flagged incorrectly: "regard to 2 hour chunks: Our research prior to launching the feature indicated that almost no highlights were longer than 2 hours, and we were concerned about abuse of the tool. It's clear that we underestimated the demand and need for a solution here, and fortunately we have 3 weeks to figure one out. Expect changes here soon. It has disproportionately large impact on certain communities (speedrunning most obviously) and we're very concerned about making sure that every community on Twitch has a good experience. W/ regard to content id: Hey Cosmo, I understand your feelings here. We have absolutely no intention of flagging songs due to original in-game music. If that's happening (and it appears it is), it's a problem and we will investigate and try to fix it. W/ regards to your last question, why Twitch: Because we care about you and your viewers, and we want every broadcaster on Twitch to be protected from potential liability. No matter how remote you might feel the issue is, we aren't willing to run the risk someone's life gets ruined over this. PS: I don't think your VODs are being flagged right now, but I realize that doesn't help anyone else getting caught in the crossfire." Screenshot of the reddit post, instead of wall of text.  ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5hzdOTz.jpg) | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 08 2014 02:59 SKC wrote: The CEO is specifically saying they didn't want to flag content for game music, which is happening all the freaking time, which tells they were using a terrible system they were not forced to use, copyrighted or not, and the issue was mostly streamers using their own music. They want to change that. It's obvious it's a bad system, it's obvious a game streaming content cannot expect to flag ingame music as not legal content. He said the developers are fine with it. Do you still think they were "forced" to use the current system and there was no alternative? Yes or they were going to roll it out but were pressed for time. The fact that he talks about liability in the AMA for both users and themselves makes me think they were very concerned about it. That or the people who make this said "Look, when you turn it on, its going to fuck up no matter what, so just do it and deal with the heat." People who make websites always say you won't be able to find the problems with the site until you launch it and let people use it. It could be the same thing for this system. I think it is much easier to accept that they meant well and didn't want shit to fuck up, but it happens. Its not like its the end of the world or something they can't fix. Really, its just something people can freak out on reddit about for a while. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
It's a terrible system. People were dreading the YouTube content ID software in Twitch for months, a lot of people talk about how it's so annoying to submit game content to YouTube because it gets flagged all the time for retarded stuff. People are skeptical about it because YouTube never changed. They say they want to create a better system that doesn't flag for ingame music, who knows if that is possible. We will see. But I think it's laughlable the idea that they were forced into implementing a terrible system that doesn't work properly. This is not something that happens overnight. People screw up, sometimes launches are terrible, but that doesn't mean it's necessary. They could have done a much better job out of it. Hell, it identified crowd noises as copyrighted content. The current system is absolutelly useless. | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
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MoneyHypeMike
Canada305 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gktTD0p.png) Updated to include context | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:23 Conti wrote: Oh man. Reddit. "Hey, let's all downvote the actual responses so they'll be hidden! That'll show them and is sure going to be helpful to everyone!" Reddit is great like that. Its why I just click on the guy profile and read his most recent posts. On August 08 2014 03:23 MoneyHypeMike wrote: Updated to include context Love the honesty. More companies need to just say, "Sorry, were human and fucked up. We will fix it." | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:17 SKC wrote: If you want to twist this into a story that they were forced into doing a terrible job out of it because they didn't have time/resources, be my guest, but that doesn't change what everyone was saying. It's a terrible system. People were dreading the YouTube content ID software in Twitch for months, a lot of people talk about how it's so annoying to submit game content to YouTube because it gets flagged all the time for retarded stuff. People are skeptical about it because YouTube never changed. They say they want to create a better system that doesn't flag for ingame music, who knows if that is possible. We will see. But I think it's laughlable the idea that they were forced into implementing a terrible system that doesn't work properly. This is not something that happens overnight. People screw up, sometimes launches are terrible, but that doesn't mean it's necessary. They could have done a much better job out of it. Hell, it identified crowd noises as copyrighted content. The current system is absolutelly useless. Okay, I'm just going to point out the difference between you and Plansix. What happened: Twitch screwed up, the implementation was hastily added and so suddenly added leading to massive amounts of easily preventable false positives. There are two possible reasons why this would occur. 1) Twitch Fucked up. It wanted to implement something so they did it suddenly and poorly. It saw youtubes content filtering system and was like "this thing is great, I bet our users would like this feature too" 2) I don't believe in case #1, twitch is known for carefully testing and rolling things out slowly, sometimes way to slowly. (European servers, partners, alternative advertising measures, blocking twitch if you have adblock on) There are a lot of things that suggest case #2. That something forced twitch to quickly implement a system to show they were respecting rights. Why are these false positives happening?: Twitch outsourced their filtering to Audible Magic who probably has 0 experience in dealing with video game music and has horribly irrelevant content IDs. By outsourcing their filtering they are protecting themselves from legal action if their filtering is to lenient. Why are they muted in 30 minute chunks?: Considering the amount of VODs twitch has, going through the entirety of the VOD database is an enormous effort and would take a large amount of time. This implies that twitch was under a lot of pressure to get it done fast. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
It's not about some developers giving consent, some allowing the music and it being flagged incorrectly, etc. If it's ingame original music, it needs to be safe. Few people (or noone) was defending the use of out of game music. | ||
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Kenthros
United States95 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:35 SKC wrote: The biggest issue is everyone was saying flagging videogame music on a videogame game website is pants on retarded and some people were saying it made sense, copyright and all that, they were probally forced to do it. They weren't, they don't want to do it, and they may or may not improve the system to make it better than YouTube and stop flaggin irrelevant stuff like crowd noises or music that is supposed to be there. Few people (or noone) was defending the use of out of game music. No one is saying they were forced to flag in game music. Even the CEO said they don't want to do it, but it happened. And its not all games, just some. Its clearly an error that will be sorted out. How many thousands of hours of twitch Vods are there out there? Of course there are going to be a number of false positives and clearly the system needs work. You confuse defending with being understanding. Some of us are not going directly to "This is fucking retarted, twitch are all idiots" and just saying the launch could have gone better, but no big deal. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:35 SKC wrote: The biggest issue is everyone was saying flagging videogame music on a videogame game website is pants on retarded and some people were saying it made sense, copyright and all that, they were probally forced to do it. They weren't, they don't want to do it, and they may or may not improve the system to make it better than YouTube and stop flaggin irrelevant stuff like crowd noises or music that is supposed to be there. Of course it's retarded. I don't think we need to explain to twitch why flagging videogame sound and muting it is a horrible idea. Twitch is not that stupid. What people forget are that companies do things for a reason, not because they get tax exemptions when they lose money. The false positives come because they outsourced their flagging to an outside company and twitch didn't filter the enormous amount of flags well enough. There are many ways in which an independent twitch could have rolled this out. It could have only affected partners (or non-partners). It could have only affected the largest streams and vods. They could have spent much more time to check what was flagged. This was pure panic. Few people (or noone) was defending the use of out of game music. Go back a few pages or look on reddit, lots of people think they should be able to stream music too. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:41 c0ldfusion wrote: So uh, hitbox.tv? Hitbox.tv is Own3d http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1qv1de/psa_hitboxtv_is_essentially_own3dtv_the_current/ Azubu is a money laundering front http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/406145-esports-contributor-azuwho?page=12#225 Gaming Live is Ministry of Win http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2cvbrt/we_have_launched_gaming_live_an_alternative_to/ You got Youtube or Dailymotion left Delivering streaming costs an enormous amount of money, after all twitch is the fourth largest in US peak traffic http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304851104579361201655365302 | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:41 c0ldfusion wrote: So uh, hitbox.tv? Will somehow be magically immune to copyright claims? Skynet is coming to every service is some way, shape or form. Edit: LOL, they are owned3d??? Thats awesome. Hope people don't like getting paid. | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
People are up in arms about this because there is the possibility that the contentID thing will be turned on for live streaming, too. Twitch denies that it ever will, but who's to trust a CEO in these days? | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:46 Plansix wrote: Will somehow be magically immune to copyright claims? Skynet is coming to every service is some way, shape or form. Edit: LOL, they are owned3d??? Thats awesome. Hope people don't like getting paid. Well if they're owned3d at least they won't be US based right? I don't know, I just did some reading on Reddit. Apparently the CFO of owned3d heads up hitbox.tv now. Something something about how it was the CEO of owned3d who mismanaged the finances before the CFO came along. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:58 c0ldfusion wrote: Well if they're owned3d at least they won't be US based right? I don't know, I just did some reading on Reddit. Apparently the CFO of owned3d heads up hitbox.tv now. Something something about how it was the CEO of owned3d who mismanaged the finances before the CFO came along. Maybe mismanagement happened but own3d was not profitable. Still own3d told a lot of streamers (notably destiny) to switch from Twitch to own3d because they would pay them more. own3d couldn't sell enough adds and investors realized that own3d would never be profitable so they declared bankruptcy. Honestly I don't actually think Twitch is profitable. There isn't a big variety of ads. In addition there was a 1 billion valuation of twitch, which is pretty low for a start up company that grew so fast and has a massive userbase as well as proven revenue streams. | ||
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Erinyes
Germany104 Posts
On August 08 2014 03:17 SKC wrote:[..] Why are they muted in 30 minute chunks?: Considering the amount of VODs twitch has, going through the entirety of the VOD database is an enormous effort and would take a large amount of time. This implies that twitch was under a lot of pressure to get it done fast.[...] They need to do 30 minute chunks since a broadcast is saved internally as many 30 minute long FLVs. There is no other way currently but they wish to optimize / change this in the future. Directly from the AMA The 30 minute block size is a limitation of the current system and something we hope to fix. | ||
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