EPTIn any case, Carlsen has clearly shown himself to be the strongest chess player in the world, and I suspect as time goes on and he continues to improve he will go down as one of the greatest players in history. The rate at which he plays exact Houdini recommended lines, or can suck wins against super GM's out of objectively drawn positions is incredible.
World Chess Championship 2013 - Page 84
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Chess discussion continues here | ||
|
jacevedo
31 Posts
In any case, Carlsen has clearly shown himself to be the strongest chess player in the world, and I suspect as time goes on and he continues to improve he will go down as one of the greatest players in history. The rate at which he plays exact Houdini recommended lines, or can suck wins against super GM's out of objectively drawn positions is incredible. | ||
|
wingpawn
Poland1342 Posts
Position after 22...b3: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rhL9ZkN.png) If White plays 23. Nh5 here, then it might cause Black much more trouble than Vishy's actual choice (23. Qf4). 23...g6 right away fails because of 24. Nf6+ Kh8 25. Bxd5 Bxf5 26. Bxc4 The idea is as follows: to play 24. f6, and if 24...g6 25. Ng7! denying both e6 and e8 as defensive squares for Black Knight. Now, if such position arises and Black brings over his Knight, White immediately exchanges Knights and the g7-square remains a permanent liability. In this variation, if Black avoids Knight exchange, White swings his Queen to h6, threatening to move away his Knight from g7 to anywhere and then mating with Qg7. But, on the other hand, if Black makes the exchange I mentioned, he will soon be forced to defend the g7 with ...Kg8-Kh8 and Rf8-g8. In this configuration, there's no power on Earth for Black to defend the h7-pawn, so White's threat of Rf1-f4-h4 and Qh6xh7# seems unstoppable. Of course those are just my general speculations. This idea might still die to some counterattacking variations where Black Knight crouches on c7, waiting for White Knight to make his move, and b-pawn runs. But even if Carlsen just did that, White could still probably press h7 with his Queen + Rook shenanigans as if the Knight on g7, as if the dispute above never existed. Maybe that was actually the only way to get a beautiful checkmate with two enemy Queens watching it hopelessly. | ||
|
jacevedo
31 Posts
For this reason I think h4 is the right plan. You can build up to a stronger attack and there is little black can do about it except try and force something to happen with the b pawn. | ||
|
Ohnoitztotoro
United States45 Posts
| ||
|
sharkie
Austria18761 Posts
On November 22 2013 01:23 urboss wrote: It's funny that Carlsen won the game without ever moving his Queen or Bishop. oh my god, you are right o.O | ||
|
biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On November 22 2013 07:03 jacevedo wrote: I was really hoping for Carlsen to win, but I never imagined him going essentially 3-0 and crushing Anand so hard. I believe Anand was actually terrified of Carlsen. The commentators always called Anand relaxed and not showing emotions, but what I saw were a lot of nervous twitches and glances at Carlsen throughout this series. The blunders Anand has made are extremely rare for a player of his caliber and suggest a compromised psychological state. In any case, Carlsen has clearly shown himself to be the strongest chess player in the world, and I suspect as time goes on and he continues to improve he will go down as one of the greatest players in history. The rate at which he plays exact Houdini recommended lines, or can suck wins against super GM's out of objectively drawn positions is incredible. I think it just has to do with Magnus's personality and his young age. Magnus is so calm and relaxed, and he makes it look easy, while being 22 years old. Vishy is twice his age, and has multiple championships, and still is made to look like a fool in front of the world. Even he knows inside that he is inferior to magnus in chess, and those nervous twitches, mannerisms are surfacing. So all vishy can tell himself is to just keep doing his best and give some good games! | ||
|
Maenander
Germany4927 Posts
On November 22 2013 07:07 wingpawn wrote: More of my noobish analysis without computer help or making the moves on board. Position after 22...b3: + Show Spoiler + If White plays 23. Nh5 here, then it might cause Black much more trouble than Vishy's actual choice (23. Qf4). 23...g6 right away fails because of 24. Nf6+ Kh8 25. Bxd5 Bxf5 26. Bxc4 The idea is as follows: to play 24. f6, and if 24...g6 25. Ng7! denying both e6 and e8 as defensive squares for Black Knight. Now, if such position arises and Black brings over his Knight, White immediately exchanges Knights and the g7-square remains a permanent liability. In this variation, if Black avoids Knight exchange, White swings his Queen to h6, threatening to move away his Knight from g7 to anywhere and then mating with Qg7. But, on the other hand, if Black makes the exchange I mentioned, he will soon be forced to defend the g7 with ...Kg8-Kh8 and Rf8-g8. In this configuration, there's no power on Earth for Black to defend the h7-pawn, so White's threat of Rf1-f4-h4 and Qh6xh7# seems unstoppable. Of course those are just my general speculations. This idea might still die to some counterattacking variations where Black Knight crouches on c7, waiting for White Knight to make his move, and b-pawn runs. But even if Carlsen just did that, White could still probably press h7 with his Queen + Rook shenanigans as if the Knight on g7, as if the dispute above never existed. Maybe that was actually the only way to get a beautiful checkmate with two enemy Queens watching it hopelessly. After 24. f6 g6 you can't really prevent either the black bishop or queen coming to g4 and ruining your attack plan, because the white queen is not in position. Anand spent a lot of time on Qf4, too, and apparently found no better alternative to initiate the attack. | ||
|
Housemd
United States1407 Posts
But after black plays b2 on move 26, this is what I come up with: Ne2 Qb6 Nf4 b1=Q Nxd5 Qb4 Ne7 Qxe7 fxe7 Ng7 The pawn then captures the black's rook on f8 and becomes a queen. Black defends by killing the newly made queen with King. However, black is left with a queen, bishop, and knight while White has a queen, rook, bishop as well as a one pawn advantage. I can't finish it off from here though but wouldn't Anand grab the victory easily? EDIT: Sorry if my notation is wrong in advance. If any questions about it, please ask. | ||
|
kwizach
3658 Posts
On November 22 2013 02:18 Gorsameth wrote: Even being a best of 100 wouldn't have changed much about the way it played out. Its the world championship. No one is going to shrug and do something stupid for the heck of it just because there are another 50 games left if he loses. Anand played this series very cautiously until today, because he was now forced to be aggressive, while Carlson likes to draw games out for his superior lategame plays. Its a natural consequence of the players and the drawish nature of chess. Nobody's talking about "[doing] something stupid for the heck of it". With more games, chances are that we would have seen more games with Anand going for sharper lines/more aggressive play. | ||
|
lightman
United States731 Posts
Interestingly, Carlsen's former tutor Kasparov also won a game with black without any Queen moves. The difference was that his opponent Veselin Topalov tried to launch an unsuccessful attack on Kasparov but was quickly counter attacked and next thing he knew it was like D-Day on his Queen side and was forced to resign also in 28 moves coincidentally like today's game. Here's the link to it http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070780 | ||
|
vndestiny
Singapore3473 Posts
On November 22 2013 02:41 Maenander wrote: There is no forced draw coming up, just a very equal, drawish looking, position. Your line could continue 30... gxh5 31.Rxh5 Bf5 32.g6 Bxg6 33. Rg5 and then there are a lot of options, none looking too promising for any side. Maybe Carlsen would have won anyway as Anand was in time trouble already. And after 28 .. Qe1 Carlsen is dead, not Anand, Black can't stop the attack after Rh4 then. Qd1 is the only option. Qe1 then Rh4 then Qxg3+. Then Qxh4 no? Edit: WTH I wasnt looking at the board and forgot the pawn at h2. I'm an idiot ... | ||
|
broz0rs
United States2294 Posts
I only saw the main stream and the commentary given was pretty much a funeral procession with Tania's "I think I am going to cry" moment. | ||
|
graNite
Germany4434 Posts
| ||
|
WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
| ||
|
meeple
Canada10211 Posts
On November 22 2013 15:53 WindWolf wrote: What games has been the best so far. Will try and watch some VODs when I get enough time Depends what you like to see... Game 9 was by far my favorite so far... despite the massive blunder in the ending... | ||
|
urboss
Austria1223 Posts
On November 22 2013 15:53 WindWolf wrote: What games has been the best so far. Will try and watch some VODs when I get enough time I've added some subjective ratings for each game on the front page. | ||
|
jacevedo
31 Posts
On November 22 2013 16:45 urboss wrote: I've added some subjective ratings for each game on the front page. You don't like to give 3 stars?  Yeah your ratings are pretty much perfect. | ||
|
urboss
Austria1223 Posts
| ||
|
Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
| ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 22 2013 17:56 Sabin010 wrote: I hope we get to see Magnus play the way we know he can today. Yeah I hope he doesn't just play safe lines to get maximise the chance of a draw =[ he needs 1 draw from 3 games, hopefully enough wriggle room for him to try for a win. | ||
| ||
