can only quote from an episode from a satire show that runs here:
"children shooting each other with automatic guns, that is freedom. Being treated afterwards in the hospital free of charge, that is communism"
the US has one of the highest per capita spending on hospital bills compared to other countries with universal healthcare. I think it was around 7000$ average in the US to around 3800$ in germany for example. This high spending comes exactly because people dont have proper health care and have to go to emergency rooms even though the illness could have been treated earlier and thus cheaper in the end. So the state ends up sitting on huge emergency room costs.
This would not happen if universal healthcare was a thing and the state would also have a better position to force pharmacy companies to lower their prices.
The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
On October 09 2013 22:08 LaughingTulkas wrote: The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
Except there isnt even a face saving compromise possible anymore. The Republicans have pushed the fight against the ACA so far that any solution that doesnt effect the ACA is an automatic loss. And the Democrats cannot sell this as anything other then a defeat if any part of the ACA is touched since they keep publicly stating that no budget that changes the ACA is acceptable.
If a clean CR can get a vote without the Republicans bringing it to the floor then there is a way out. More moderate Republicans vote for it to save the nation from default which they can sell to there moderate constituents while the hardliners can say they did all they possibly could.
The other option? Obama executive orders around the debt ceiling, saving the US from default. Winning yet another point over the Republicans and the deadlock continues until the 2014 elections where hopefully the Republicans lose so bad the Democrats get the Senate, House and Presidency and the country can finally go back to running again.
Rick Mercer is funny, in comparing a similar mechanic of the Canadian government: "...when the PM can close parliament on a whim, well there's a term for that: taxation without representation".
It doesn't stick exactly but it's an interesting notion nonetheless. How the fuck are Americans constituents being represented?
On October 09 2013 22:08 LaughingTulkas wrote: The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
Except there isnt even a face saving compromise possible anymore. The Republicans have pushed the fight against the ACA so far that any solution that doesnt effect the ACA is an automatic loss. And the Democrats cannot sell this as anything other then a defeat if any part of the ACA is touched since they keep publicly stating that no budget that changes the ACA is acceptable.
If a clean CR can get a vote without the Republicans bringing it to the floor then there is a way out. More moderate Republicans vote for it to save the nation from default which they can sell to there moderate constituents while the hardliners can say they did all they possibly could.
The other option? Obama executive orders around the debt ceiling, saving the US from default. Winning yet another point over the Republicans and the deadlock continues until the 2014 elections where hopefully the Republicans lose so bad the Democrats get the Senate, House and Presidency and the country can finally go back to running again.
If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed. It might surprise you that some of us are sick of the donkey nonsense that got us in this mess in the first place. Also, the fact that you say the Democrats need to save the US because the Republicans are essentially the bad guys is perverse. Please realize that international propaganda from the US is primarily liberal.
On October 09 2013 22:08 LaughingTulkas wrote: The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
Except there isnt even a face saving compromise possible anymore. The Republicans have pushed the fight against the ACA so far that any solution that doesnt effect the ACA is an automatic loss. And the Democrats cannot sell this as anything other then a defeat if any part of the ACA is touched since they keep publicly stating that no budget that changes the ACA is acceptable.
If a clean CR can get a vote without the Republicans bringing it to the floor then there is a way out. More moderate Republicans vote for it to save the nation from default which they can sell to there moderate constituents while the hardliners can say they did all they possibly could.
The other option? Obama executive orders around the debt ceiling, saving the US from default. Winning yet another point over the Republicans and the deadlock continues until the 2014 elections where hopefully the Republicans lose so bad the Democrats get the Senate, House and Presidency and the country can finally go back to running again.
If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed. It might surprise you that some of us are sick of the donkey nonsense that got us in this mess in the first place. Also, the fact that you say the Democrats need to save the US because the Republicans are essentially the bad guys is perverse. Please realize that international propaganda from the US is primarily liberal.
On October 09 2013 22:08 LaughingTulkas wrote: The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
Except there isnt even a face saving compromise possible anymore. The Republicans have pushed the fight against the ACA so far that any solution that doesnt effect the ACA is an automatic loss. And the Democrats cannot sell this as anything other then a defeat if any part of the ACA is touched since they keep publicly stating that no budget that changes the ACA is acceptable.
If a clean CR can get a vote without the Republicans bringing it to the floor then there is a way out. More moderate Republicans vote for it to save the nation from default which they can sell to there moderate constituents while the hardliners can say they did all they possibly could.
The other option? Obama executive orders around the debt ceiling, saving the US from default. Winning yet another point over the Republicans and the deadlock continues until the 2014 elections where hopefully the Republicans lose so bad the Democrats get the Senate, House and Presidency and the country can finally go back to running again.
If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed. It might surprise you that some of us are sick of the donkey nonsense that got us in this mess in the first place. Also, the fact that you say the Democrats need to save the US because the Republicans are essentially the bad guys is perverse. Please realize that international propaganda from the US is primarily liberal.
The irony is strong is this one.
Yes, yes indeed... I think you speak for 6.7 billions of people when you say that.
On October 09 2013 22:08 LaughingTulkas wrote: The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
Except there isnt even a face saving compromise possible anymore. The Republicans have pushed the fight against the ACA so far that any solution that doesnt effect the ACA is an automatic loss. And the Democrats cannot sell this as anything other then a defeat if any part of the ACA is touched since they keep publicly stating that no budget that changes the ACA is acceptable.
If a clean CR can get a vote without the Republicans bringing it to the floor then there is a way out. More moderate Republicans vote for it to save the nation from default which they can sell to there moderate constituents while the hardliners can say they did all they possibly could.
The other option? Obama executive orders around the debt ceiling, saving the US from default. Winning yet another point over the Republicans and the deadlock continues until the 2014 elections where hopefully the Republicans lose so bad the Democrats get the Senate, House and Presidency and the country can finally go back to running again.
If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed. It might surprise you that some of us are sick of the donkey nonsense that got us in this mess in the first place. Also, the fact that you say the Democrats need to save the US because the Republicans are essentially the bad guys is perverse. Please realize that international propaganda from the US is primarily liberal.
Irony: US citizens telling non-US citizens to not tell them how they should govern their own country whilethe foreign policy of their country has basically revolved around telling other countries how they should govern themselves (or trying to force them to if they didn't want to listen).
On October 09 2013 22:08 LaughingTulkas wrote: The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
Except there isnt even a face saving compromise possible anymore. The Republicans have pushed the fight against the ACA so far that any solution that doesnt effect the ACA is an automatic loss. And the Democrats cannot sell this as anything other then a defeat if any part of the ACA is touched since they keep publicly stating that no budget that changes the ACA is acceptable.
If a clean CR can get a vote without the Republicans bringing it to the floor then there is a way out. More moderate Republicans vote for it to save the nation from default which they can sell to there moderate constituents while the hardliners can say they did all they possibly could.
The other option? Obama executive orders around the debt ceiling, saving the US from default. Winning yet another point over the Republicans and the deadlock continues until the 2014 elections where hopefully the Republicans lose so bad the Democrats get the Senate, House and Presidency and the country can finally go back to running again.
If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed. It might surprise you that some of us are sick of the donkey nonsense that got us in this mess in the first place. Also, the fact that you say the Democrats need to save the US because the Republicans are essentially the bad guys is perverse. Please realize that international propaganda from the US is primarily liberal.
It's an international forum, where people from different countries get to discuss international issues. Last time I checked, the US government defaulting on its debt is a huge international issue.
Also, it seems fairly obvious who the international community blames for this crises. You can call it a result of propaganda all you want, but that's generally just a meaningless ad hominem.
On October 09 2013 22:08 LaughingTulkas wrote: The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
Except there isnt even a face saving compromise possible anymore. The Republicans have pushed the fight against the ACA so far that any solution that doesnt effect the ACA is an automatic loss. And the Democrats cannot sell this as anything other then a defeat if any part of the ACA is touched since they keep publicly stating that no budget that changes the ACA is acceptable.
If a clean CR can get a vote without the Republicans bringing it to the floor then there is a way out. More moderate Republicans vote for it to save the nation from default which they can sell to there moderate constituents while the hardliners can say they did all they possibly could.
The other option? Obama executive orders around the debt ceiling, saving the US from default. Winning yet another point over the Republicans and the deadlock continues until the 2014 elections where hopefully the Republicans lose so bad the Democrats get the Senate, House and Presidency and the country can finally go back to running again.
If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed. It might surprise you that some of us are sick of the donkey nonsense that got us in this mess in the first place. Also, the fact that you say the Democrats need to save the US because the Republicans are essentially the bad guys is perverse. Please realize that international propaganda from the US is primarily liberal.
Tell your Republican's to stop holding your government hostage and to not threaten another global economic crisis and I will gladly stop calling them the bad guys. As for the "international propaganda", we all know reality has a liberal bias...
Stick your head out of a window and have a look around outside of fox news and you would be amazed at the world you see.
On October 09 2013 22:31 Serpest wrote: If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed.
On October 09 2013 21:53 Skilledblob wrote: can only quote from an episode from a satire show that runs here:
"children shooting each other with automatic guns, that is freedom. Being treated afterwards in the hospital free of charge, that is communism"
the US has one of the highest per capita spending on hospital bills compared to other countries with universal healthcare. I think it was around 7000$ average in the US to around 3800$ in germany for example. This high spending comes exactly because people dont have proper health care and have to go to emergency rooms even though the illness could have been treated earlier and thus cheaper in the end. So the state ends up sitting on huge emergency room costs.
This would not happen if universal healthcare was a thing and the state would also have a better position to force pharmacy companies to lower their prices.
Not quite, you can put most of the blame of the insane amounts of bureaucracy that has gotten worse and worse in the medical field. From malpractice insurance which is nothing but a two-pronged sword for doctors, a lot of situations are coming up where either doctors are purposely prescribing things that are overreactions (painkillers, surgery) or not doing enough because they are conservative in natural but a patient demands a "quick-fix" not knowing that isn't always the best course. Or they simple do not care or know what to do. Often patients think it is okay the sue for malpractice. It is a very ambiguous situation and one that is making a mess of the medical profession. Furthermore, the spending will only get worse as those uninsured, usually due to lack of funds, mostly likely having their bills covered in the premiums of others or the healthcare providers will just sing the song of every bank in 2008, in hopes of a bail out.
On October 09 2013 22:08 LaughingTulkas wrote: The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
The other option? Obama executive orders around the debt ceiling, saving the US from default. Winning yet another point over the Republicans and the deadlock continues until the 2014 elections where hopefully the Republicans lose so bad the Democrats get the Senate, House and Presidency and the country can finally go back to running again.
On October 09 2013 21:53 Skilledblob wrote: can only quote from an episode from a satire show that runs here:
"children shooting each other with automatic guns, that is freedom. Being treated afterwards in the hospital free of charge, that is communism"
the US has one of the highest per capita spending on hospital bills compared to other countries with universal healthcare. I think it was around 7000$ average in the US to around 3800$ in germany for example. This high spending comes exactly because people dont have proper health care and have to go to emergency rooms even though the illness could have been treated earlier and thus cheaper in the end. So the state ends up sitting on huge emergency room costs.
This would not happen if universal healthcare was a thing and the state would also have a better position to force pharmacy companies to lower their prices.
Not quite, you can put most of the blame of the insane amounts of bureaucracy that has gotten worse and worse in the medical field. From malpractice insurance which is nothing but a two-pronged sword for doctors, a lot of situations are coming up where either doctors are purposely prescribing things that are overreactions (painkillers, surgery) or not doing enough because they are conservative in natural but a patient demands a "quick-fix" not knowing that isn't always the best course. Or they simple do not care or know what to do. Often patients think it is okay the sue for malpractice. It is a very ambiguous situation and one that is making a mess of the medical profession. Furthermore, the spending will only get worse as those uninsured, usually due to lack of funds, mostly likely having their bills covered in the premiums of others or the healthcare providers will just sing the song of every bank in 2008, in hopes of a bail out.
Fact is that US healthcare is incredibly high compared to other health care systems that achieve largely the same result. . US patients are flying to Europe/Canada to get surgeries because its flat out less than half the cost here, similar sugeries can cost 10x more in the US, simple procedures go over 30x the cost of other developed countries (see here for example).
Malpractice suits and insurances makes up part of that difference no doubt as might insurer bureaucracy but they're part of the deregulated healthcare system you have chosen. Malpractice suits and bureaucracy exist in the rest of the world just like they do in the US, people just don't get similar payouts.
On October 09 2013 22:08 LaughingTulkas wrote: The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
The other option? Obama executive orders around the debt ceiling, saving the US from default. Winning yet another point over the Republicans and the deadlock continues until the 2014 elections where hopefully the Republicans lose so bad the Democrats get the Senate, House and Presidency and the country can finally go back to running again.
On October 09 2013 22:08 LaughingTulkas wrote: The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
The other option? Obama executive orders around the debt ceiling, saving the US from default. Winning yet another point over the Republicans and the deadlock continues until the 2014 elections where hopefully the Republicans lose so bad the Democrats get the Senate, House and Presidency and the country can finally go back to running again.
On October 03 2013 17:34 TyrantPotato wrote: Ill be brief.
The republicans are pathetic.
Why though?
It's the democrats fault. The repubs showed up to negotiate obamacare adjustments (making it fractionally less terrible), the democrats didn't even bother to show up because they're not even willing to discuss it and listen to what the repubs have to say (resulting in budget failing and govt shutdown). Imo this makes the Dems incredibly childish in addition to basically being all or nothing tyrants on a crusade to increase the size of the state at all costs.
they should not negociate anything, this have passed, name me only something terrible from the obamacare ? nothing.
stop to be brainwashed american people, the bill good, you should accept it, this will help you unless you got ALOT OF MONEY....the republicans are in the wrong.
im sure you dont even know what the obamare in reality, you are brainwashed by media .....the republicans want to change something who already passed and change how it funded... you CANT TRADE HERE, obama right.
would also add you guy are damn lucky to get someone like obama, yet you dont even understand or know what all the good thing he trying to do, everything he do media and way more stupid people make him look bad.
that not his FAULT for the closure ?? yeah realy, maybe that the republicans by trying something dirty in the first place no?
try to know what he trying to do at the start, he in the right....just like snowden a hero yet you make him look like a terrorist... what wrong with you people ???!!! wake UP
Terrible? Try increased taxation, mandate to purchase a good/service (automobile insurance extortion is bad enough), higher premiums, lower work weeks for some of the largest retail employers (cutting from 40 to under 30), etc. I'm sure the insurance companies are loving this though, as is the Government - increased revenue via fines, more IRS agents, mandated purchasing of Insurance companies offerings, etc. What's not to love in this totalitarian crap hole! Instead of introducing measures to actually lower costs like abolishing AMA monopoly and licensures to increase numbers of medical workers, allowing competition across state boundaries, abolishing taxation on things like health-savings accounts, ending the FDA which has artificially increased drug prices and the ridiculous patent/copyright systems that do likewise, and end the hundreds of thousands of insurance regulations that mandate price controls / discrimination non-sense, etc. we get the ACA written by insurance lobbyists. Sounds wonderful.
Insurance is supposed to cover risks, not subsidize lifestyles. I should be in my own bracket of potential risk not thrown into brackets with 80 year olds who are patronizing health services nearly daily. Anyways, we need to address why Health Care as a good/service costs so much, and for that we need to go back to the early 1900s when the Government began to intervene. You can actually google NY Times articles from the period of medical professionals complaining to the Government that they weren't getting paid enough so they needed them to introduce artificial scarcity and up the price. Well, seems they got their wish. By the way, the Government also killed out private mutual aid and introduced servile compliant Welfarism in its place. Boy, did we get screwed.
In case you're wondering about her credentials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ruwart): Born in Detroit, Ruwart holds an undergraduate degree in biochemistry (BS, 1970), and a graduate degree in biophysics (PhD, 1974) from Michigan State University. After a brief term as an Assistant Professor of Surgery at St. Louis University Medical School, Ruwart spent 19 years as a pharmaceutical research scientist for Upjohn Pharmaceuticals,[1] and has written extensively on the subjects of government regulation of the drug industry and on libertarian communication.
everything you say are WRONG, you are brainwashed poor man..... the increased tax, can you link it ? You only need to get an insurance ( like everyone should have ) and they will help you pay it if you gain not much money ( They got a program, you LOSS NOTHING , you gain everything when you need to go see a doctor.... ) that 33 % milions people this would help , who can't pay for it right now....
This would increase your quality of life like NOTHING ELSE before.... I'm sad you don't see that. Wake up man plz, that's for you ! what you list after are other thing who need to be done, but obama start in the right way, this got changed alot since 2008.... also that good to note that the law in 2008 got changed by the republicain many many time, that them who make it cost that much...( the cost was like the EU one at first ) .and yet you blame Obama... and the republicain blame obama too and now they ... WTF... im not writing anymore.. WAKE UP....
the lower work hour since I don't know what got nothing to do with this law... You are wrong, they are trying to create false reason and you are right into them....
look into the internet , READ, dont take fact from people even if they look good, THINK FOR YOURSELF, look at the LAW at first, READ WIKIPEDIA... look into stuft...
the law good, obama right, republicain are WRONG and should just shut up and stop the shut down, whine at them not at obama OMG.... what wrong with you people ???
Obamacare has already increased premiums from 60% to 135% and this is a fact, its already happened and premiums are set to increase even more.
So pretty much everyone from 18 to 55, self employed, middle class, small businesses will be negatively affected by the higher premiums.
Now this law is going to benefit you if you are 60+ years and/or welfare queen who hasn't worked a day in your life in the short term. Long term it unsustainable as it adds additional 6 trillion in debt over the next 20 years. Its just impossible to pay for it.
Do you have really read what you link me ? Will read it with you and make you understand each point ( even if Forbes a BIASED AS FUCK, they can't put 100% of the lie everywhere, that's how they say it to make you think what they want. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Even an 11-figure tax like the device levy will only cover a paltry share of Obamacare’s total bill. A much larger portion is scheduled to come from higher taxes on top earners.
----------------------------------------: here you go , first real part, HIGHER TAXES ON TOP EARNERS
for people who earn more that 200 000 $ A YEAR , that they who pay more , and the couple who pay more that 250 000 $ YEAR , where are you reading you will pay more ? ( Sorry maybe you rich and got a lot of money ) but many workers got an improvement and Obamacare good for them.....
Read wiki : about 9 out of 10 Americans will pay less after Obamacare , 32 million people ( you are probably inside them because people who are outside it gain more money and are not brainwashed ), I would live in the USA maybe I would try to get something like that not passing, that's simple to use simple people..... Would make me pay more money..... You are helping the rich like a fool.... I'm sick how people can't think for themselves, all you say are WRONG. WAKE UP !!
Forbes is biased as fuck , don't take stuff from them..... the way you write, say stuft , you can pretty much make stuft and fact so most people accept and agree with anythings , if they think they are losing something ( even if that not true ) will make them think what you want....the people in the 1 % of usa are making you doing anything and everything they want....
this world go to shit because people are stupid and cant think for themselve....
On October 09 2013 21:39 revel8 wrote: I think this entire issue about ACA is bemusing to many non-Americans. This is purely down to many countries having established Universal Healthcare policies and having first hand experience of such a system being a boon rather than a burden. That Obamacare is being represented in some quarters as some insidious plan to be demonized strikes non-Americans as somewhat strange, considering the bill is an attempt to allow the poorest members of American society to actually get affordable medical healthcare, which sounds like a laudable aim. It also seems somewhat strange to hear that America, the richest country in the world, cannot implement such a system because they cannot afford it, when as previously mentioned, poorer countries can afford to run such programs.
While the ACA debate and the shutdown, is strictly an internal matter for Americans, the issue becomes a global concern were the USA to default on it's debt obligations.
My perception is that the Republicans seem to be acting in an undemocratic manner by forcing this shutdown. The ACA was proposed, debated and voted upon. It passed. They should respect the democratic principle and respect the outcome of the vote. What is the point in even having a vote on a law, if the outcome is then ignored? Indeed, the ACA was voted upon numerous times and passed all those times. The Republicans should respect the concepts of voting and abide by the result of the vote.
Indeed, the entire issue is definitely amusing.
Imagine if the Dems had done this to get the Assault Weapons Ban renewed, rofl. Think of all the wonderful possibilities the future will have to hold if we accept this as a legitimate political tool.
On October 09 2013 22:08 LaughingTulkas wrote: The problem now is that Obama can't capitulate, because it sets a terrible precedent, but neither can the Republicans capitulate, because they've taken things too far to give up without getting anything in return. Somebody needs to find out some face saving compromise that the Republicans can say "we got this" while the Democrats can still say "we didn't give them anything important" which frankly seems pretty impossible (it may be).
Note: obviously, to really do such a thing is impossible, but what we truly need is a solution which allows them the SAY that they did it to their base, and say it in such a way that the base will believe it. This second is actually pretty easy, the staunch Republicans and Democrats will believe just about any spin that they read that favors (or victimizes) their particular party, its the first part of the equation that is hard. What would such a compromise be? It has to be something at least symbolically important to the Republicans, but most likely substantively unimportant to the Democrats.
The best I can think of is a temporary agreement for the government and the institution of a special commission to fix the real problem, and one the Republicans feel they can control. I just don't think such a commission would succeed.
Except there isnt even a face saving compromise possible anymore. The Republicans have pushed the fight against the ACA so far that any solution that doesnt effect the ACA is an automatic loss. And the Democrats cannot sell this as anything other then a defeat if any part of the ACA is touched since they keep publicly stating that no budget that changes the ACA is acceptable.
If a clean CR can get a vote without the Republicans bringing it to the floor then there is a way out. More moderate Republicans vote for it to save the nation from default which they can sell to there moderate constituents while the hardliners can say they did all they possibly could.
The other option? Obama executive orders around the debt ceiling, saving the US from default. Winning yet another point over the Republicans and the deadlock continues until the 2014 elections where hopefully the Republicans lose so bad the Democrats get the Senate, House and Presidency and the country can finally go back to running again.
If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed. It might surprise you that some of us are sick of the donkey nonsense that got us in this mess in the first place. Also, the fact that you say the Democrats need to save the US because the Republicans are essentially the bad guys is perverse. Please realize that international propaganda from the US is primarily liberal.
Or you can realize that unlike you we have no direct ideological stake in the situation and thus are not statistically as biased as you.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://blogs-images.forbes.com/toddhixon/files/2012/02/MaryMeeker-graph-e1329513274401.png)
. 
