US government shutdown - Page 25

On October 02 2013 18:16 Jumperer wrote:
We all should thank the house republicans from preventing this country from getting destroyed by obama.

On October 02 2013 18:12 sc2superfan101 wrote:

The problem here is not that you are stupid, or that we are stupid. The problem here is that you haven't the slightest clue what it's felt like to be a Republican for the last two decades. Obviously you can't understand the Republican frustration, and this obviously means that to you, it looks foreign. That's why you get the obviously wrong impression of it.

On October 02 2013 18:37 Jibba wrote:
Are you motherfucking kidding me? Not only have Republicans been far more successful in both chambers (even when Democrats controlled both) since 2000, but they've also shifted political discourse tin this country o the right, despite it shifting to the left everywhere else in the world. Obama and Reagan are a hell of a lot closer than either side will admit, and both are far more conservative overall than Nixon, Ford, Johnson, Kennedy and arguably even Eisenhower.

This self-victimization is absolutely disingenuous and incongruous with the facts of the situation. Lose two presidential elections in a row and all of a sudden you've been "losing" for 20 years. Get out of your echo chambers.

Really...? Would've taken you less time to just copy, paste, and google the quote than to write that if you cared where it was from but based on your response to what actually happened to Gingrich I can see you didn't.

Just curious though. Provided the tea party fails at stopping Obamacare like every non-Republican (and several Republicans) know they will, will you still be supporting those who would use the budget and the debt ceiling to try to destroy the PPACA no matter how many presidential elections Republicans lose as a result? OR.... If the next Republican Nominee loses AGAIN running on repealing Obamacare will you finally admit defeat? Guess thats an open question to Tea party/repeal advocates.

October 1, 2013 - American Voters Reject GOP Shutdown Strategy 3-1, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Dems Up 9 Points In 2014 Congressional Races
PDF format

American voters oppose 72 - 22 percent Congress shutting down the federal government to block implementation of the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today.

Voters also oppose 64 - 27 percent blocking an increase in the nation's debt ceiling as a way to stop Obamacare, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds.

American voters are divided on Obamacare, with 45 percent in favor and 47 percent opposed, but they are opposed 58 - 34 percent to Congress cutting off funding for the health care law to stop its implementation.

Republicans support the federal government shutdown by a narrow 49 - 44 percent margin, but opposition is 90 - 6 percent among Democrats and 74 - 19 percent among independent voters.

President Barack Obama gets a negative 45 - 49 percent overall job approval rating, compared to his 46 - 48 percent score August 2.

American voters disapprove 74 - 17 percent of the job Republicans in Congress are doing, their lowest score ever, and disapprove 60 - 32 percent of the job Democrats are doing.

"Americans are certainly not in love with Obamacare, but they reject decisively the claim by Congressional Republicans that it is so bad that it's worth closing down the government to stop it," said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

On October 02 2013 18:54 VBBandit wrote:
Sorry I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but why is it that a disagreement in congress forces a shut down of this large portion of the public sector? Shouldn't a disagreement in congress just stall reforms/the passing of bills? Or does it undermine the ability of the government to pay all these sectors (if so, what am I missing?)?

On October 02 2013 18:46 sc2superfan101 wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly with your criticisms of democracy, even though I disagree strongly with some of your conclusions. Referendums are not the best way to go about things. Representative democracy is arguably a purer and certainly more stable form than majority rules is. The problem here, however, is with the assumption that using the system and using democracy as an argument against what the Republicans are doing is disingenuous. Obamacare was passed in a pretty radical and unprecedented way. It has been implemented using very radical and legally questionable methods. It is also opposed by a wide majority of the American people.

We can put the public opinion up as an example of an uninformed populace, but then again, that argument cuts both ways too. The left-wing media was quite shrill in their doom-saying over the possibility of a Romney presidency. If you only listened to the left-wing media than you would think Romney was a proud member of the KKK, if not the Grand Wizard himself. We can't just accuse everyone in the country of being stupid when they oppose something we like, and then defend them as brilliant and discerning when they do something we do like.

Obama won 51.1% of the popular vote. Pretty big majority politically speaking. But definitely not a sweeping win. Electorally it wasn't even close, but that's more due to the way our system works than by any actual reflection of reality. He has low average approval ratings. There is great opposition to many, if not most, of his positions and policies. If Obama has a mandate and a responsibility to the people who voted for him and believe in him, than Republicans have the same mandates and responsibilities to their own voters.

Our system is designed to force compromise. So far Obama has gotten away with doing very little compromising with anyone but the more conservative members of his own party. This is the first solid political opposition he's received except electorally. Republicans caved on every single issue before this. They don't want to keep caving. Obama is no stranger to playing hard-ball, and he definitely isn't afraid of getting dirty when he has to, so this pity-party for him just doesn't ring true with me. He needs to put his ego aside and realize that the Republicans are pretty eager for anything out of him that even looks like a concession. You're all acting like this is some normal thing for Republicans to do, like shutting down the government is just something we've been waiting to do forever, when it is actually the last resort of a beleaguered minority. It is the last ditch effort to get something, anything, done.

Republicans have been stuck between a rock and a hard place for a long time, and Obama's been there for less than two days and he's already whining about how unfair it is. Welcome to where we've lived since the fucking Reagan administration.

On October 02 2013 18:37 Jibba wrote:
Are you motherfucking kidding me? Not only have Republicans been far more successful in both chambers (even when Democrats controlled both) since 2000, but they've also shifted political discourse in this country to the right, despite it shifting to the left everywhere else in the world. Obama and Reagan are a hell of a lot closer than either side will admit, and both are far more conservative overall than Nixon, Ford, Johnson, Kennedy and arguably even Eisenhower.

I mean really, look at the original bill Obama wanted in 2009 and 10. Even with a supermajority, the Senate plan was carved up and we ended up with the pretty pisspoor current Obamacare. The Republican party dominated congress in the 1990's and 2000's, and has only since fallen apart because they took a gamble on the Tea Party, and leadership lost control.

On October 02 2013 18:57 Jibba wrote:

Obamacare isn't a bill. It was signed into law and declared constitutional. This is their last ditch effort (through stopping funding for everything) to halt it, because they lost the fight for the bill, the lost the election and they lost at the Supreme Court decision.

It's like inviting a bunch of friends over to watch football matches on the weekend and when your friends decide they want to watch a different game than you, you decide to pull the plug and kick everyone out. And then you call it "democracy."

It's basically just ignoring the fundamental tenancy of accepting a loss. Like I said, there is no debate anymore. They're just delaying the inevitable and tossing away their political capital in the process. They're hoping they can find a way to turn public perceptions around but regardless of people's feelings on Obamacare, this is viewed as an underhanded tactic.

On October 02 2013 19:05 sc2superfan101 wrote:

On what policy positions is Obama to the left of any of those listed? And if you think George W. Bush or his father were successes for the Republican party than you're insane and don't know jack shit about Republicanism. Our last real success was Reagan and even Reagan was a big-time spender. Shit, we haven't had an economically conservative president since the fucking Coolidge administration, almost a century ago. The country hasn't been economically conservative since before the fucking first Roosevelt presidency.

We've made gains, sure... all in public opinion. And all of them pretty inconsequential to the big picture. The last time we had the kind of power we wanted was when Democrats were still screaming: "The South will rise again!"


The Tea Party lost us the Senate and House in 2006? The Tea Party didn't exist in 2006. When the Tea Party came into real power was 2009-2010, and they won the House back and cut deep into the Senate.

We controlled the Congress in the 90s? We hadn't held a goddamn majority in the House in 42 years before '94. Before '94 we hadn't held both Houses since the fucking '30s. One fucking decade of control and all the sudden we DOMINATED the political landscape? Get your facts straight.

On October 02 2013 19:08 Jibba wrote:

Your reading comprehension is not very good. I'm tired, and really just laughing now. As I said, there isn't a debate to be had. Get over it.

On October 02 2013 18:37 Jibba wrote:
Are you motherfucking kidding me? Not only have Republicans been far more successful in both chambers (even when Democrats controlled both) since 2000, but they've also shifted political discourse in this country to the right, despite it shifting to the left everywhere else in the world. Obama and Reagan are a hell of a lot closer than either side will admit, and both are far more conservative overall than Nixon, Ford, Johnson, Kennedy and arguably even Eisenhower.

This self-victimization is absolutely disingenuous and incongruous with the facts of the situation. Lose two presidential elections in a row and all of a sudden you've been "losing" for 20 years. Get out of your echo chambers.

I mean really, look at the original bill Obama wanted in 2009 and 10. Even with a supermajority, the original Senate plan was carved up and we ended up with the pretty pisspoor current Obamacare. The Republican party dominated congress in the 1990's and 2000's, and has only since fallen apart because they took a gamble on the Tea Party, and leadership lost control.