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On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
so you voted for the bigotry party? well done
I'd rather you didn't attack people for who they voted in the thread.
It's better to just discuss what happened rather than a personal flame war
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
they had a referendum on this issue, the country voted no.
It was hardly a fair referendum. We had 5 years of planning for AV+ and we swapped it out at the last minute and then didn't educate people about the voting systems. Voting systems shouldn't really be up for referendums in the first place given how poor political education is in the UK
how would you determine voting systems without a referendum? If it was a house of commons vote it would have been no aswell because labour and conservative are both opposed to PR
Referendums aren't binding in the UK. Labour / Tories can just say no forever if they really wanted to anyway.
True but going against the national interest after a referendum is very dangerous.
I don't really understand how you propose the voting system should be determined without a referendum though. the people spoke pretty overwhelmingly in the last referendum and the focus for the country should now be on important national issues rather than changing a voting system
It'd be the exact same as if everyone protested for it to change anyway. Just without wasting millions of pounds on a referendum.
As I said the last referendum was far from fair. Poor advertisement / Lack of education / last minute switch. I'd pretty much ignore it as far as "what the people want" even though its what is going to be used for the next 30-40 years as an excuse to keep FPTP. It'll take at least another 3-4 general elections but with more third parties wanting change then we can see another chance for a vote.
they had a referendum on this issue, the country voted no.
yeah, it was unfortunate that the main parties decided to misrepresent costs and indulge in "it'll let the bnp in" scaremongering to maintain the status quo. av wouldn't have changed a thing anyway as far as who'd actually get elected, its only use would have been as a waypoint to a system conceived more recently than the stone age
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
so you voted for the bigotry party? well done
I'd rather you didn't attack people for who they voted in the thread.
It's better to just discuss what happened rather than a personal flame war
I'm glad that's what you'd rather, thank goodness you're here to advise me.
Anyway, there was no flame. Sarcasm, but no flame.
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
so you voted for the bigotry party? well done
i voted for the only party that actually wants us to leave the eu, yes, but if you want to fire enormous generalisation shots, go ahead
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
so you voted for the bigotry party? well done
i voted for the only party that actually wants us to leave the eu, yes, but if you want to fire enormous generalisation shots, go ahead
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
they had a referendum on this issue, the country voted no.
It was hardly a fair referendum. We had 5 years of planning for AV+ and we swapped it out at the last minute and then didn't educate people about the voting systems. Voting systems shouldn't really be up for referendums in the first place given how poor political education is in the UK
how would you determine voting systems without a referendum? If it was a house of commons vote it would have been no aswell because labour and conservative are both opposed to PR
Referendums aren't binding in the UK. Labour / Tories can just say no forever if they really wanted to anyway.
True but going against the national interest after a referendum is very dangerous.
I don't really understand how you propose the voting system should be determined without a referendum though. the people spoke pretty overwhelmingly in the last referendum and the focus for the country should now be on important national issues rather than changing a voting system
It'd be the exact same as if everyone protested for it to change anyway. Just without wasting millions of pounds on a referendum.
As I said the last referendum was far from fair. Poor advertisement / Lack of education / last minute switch. I'd pretty much ignore it as far as "what the people want" even though its what is going to be used for the next 30-40 years as an excuse to keep FPTP. It'll take at least another 3-4 general elections but with more third parties wanting change then we can see another chance for a vote.
I agree the last referendum was a bit shady, I would have preferred that the referendum called for a "look at or change to the current system" rather than a "do you want AV+" which was a bit meh.
I don't agree about a lack of education it was possible for people to go out and read for information, it is the fault of those pushing for change if they felt people weren't made aware or were poorly educated.
The FPTP system isn't perfect but it is very important because it allows for a majority government to be formed, without a majority government it is very difficult to get meaningful change or progress on any issue.
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
so you voted for the bigotry party? well done
i voted for the only party that actually wants us to leave the eu, yes, but if you want to fire enormous generalisation shots, go ahead
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
they had a referendum on this issue, the country voted no.
It was hardly a fair referendum. We had 5 years of planning for AV+ and we swapped it out at the last minute and then didn't educate people about the voting systems. Voting systems shouldn't really be up for referendums in the first place given how poor political education is in the UK
how would you determine voting systems without a referendum? If it was a house of commons vote it would have been no aswell because labour and conservative are both opposed to PR
Referendums aren't binding in the UK. Labour / Tories can just say no forever if they really wanted to anyway.
True but going against the national interest after a referendum is very dangerous.
I don't really understand how you propose the voting system should be determined without a referendum though. the people spoke pretty overwhelmingly in the last referendum and the focus for the country should now be on important national issues rather than changing a voting system
It'd be the exact same as if everyone protested for it to change anyway. Just without wasting millions of pounds on a referendum.
As I said the last referendum was far from fair. Poor advertisement / Lack of education / last minute switch. I'd pretty much ignore it as far as "what the people want" even though its what is going to be used for the next 30-40 years as an excuse to keep FPTP. It'll take at least another 3-4 general elections but with more third parties wanting change then we can see another chance for a vote.
I agree the last referendum was a bit shady, I would have preferred that the referendum called for a "look at or change to the current system" rather than a "do you want AV+" which was a bit meh.
I don't agree about a lack of education it was possible for people to go out and read for information, it is the fault of those pushing for change if they felt people weren't made aware or were poorly educated.
The FPTP system isn't perfect but it is very important because it allows for a majority government to be formed, without a majority government it is very difficult to get meaningful change or progress on any issue.
I agree that FPTP is important for majorities and I'd only want to get rid of it if it had failed to reach a majority this time around
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
so you voted for the bigotry party? well done
i voted for the only party that actually wants us to leave the eu, yes, but if you want to fire enormous generalisation shots, go ahead
Generalisation is only a problem when it's untrue
so you're calling me a bigot, lovely.
it's an unfortunate perception of UKIP which has been portrayed by the media and other parties. I don't disagree with everything that UKIP does. Unfortunately I think a lot of there candidates are bigoted or racist and that a lot of people who vote ukip are cut from the same cloth. I understand that a lot of UKIP voters are disenfranchised conservative voters and are anti-brussels not anti-foreigner but unfortunately a lot of people aren't aware of that side of things
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
so you voted for the bigotry party? well done
i voted for the only party that actually wants us to leave the eu, yes, but if you want to fire enormous generalisation shots, go ahead
Generalisation is only a problem when it's untrue
so you're calling me a bigot, lovely.
it's an unfortunate perception of UKIP which has been portrayed by the media and other parties. I don't disagree with everything that UKIP does. Unfortunately I think a lot of there candidates are bigoted or racist and that a lot of people who vote ukip are cut from the same cloth. I understand that a lot of UKIP voters are disenfranchised conservative voters and are anti-brussels not anti-foreigner but unfortunately a lot of people aren't aware of that side of things
It's not really simply a perception protrayed from the media when just below you admit that many of their candidates + many of their voters are in fact bigoted, is it?
The fact is, you're voting and supporting those people when you go with UKIP, even if you don't believe you yourself are that way.
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
so you voted for the bigotry party? well done
i voted for the only party that actually wants us to leave the eu, yes, but if you want to fire enormous generalisation shots, go ahead
Generalisation is only a problem when it's untrue
so you're calling me a bigot, lovely.
it's an unfortunate perception of UKIP which has been portrayed by the media and other parties. I don't disagree with everything that UKIP does. Unfortunately I think a lot of there candidates are bigoted or racist and that a lot of people who vote ukip are cut from the same cloth. I understand that a lot of UKIP voters are disenfranchised conservative voters and are anti-brussels not anti-foreigner but unfortunately a lot of people aren't aware of that side of things
It's not really simply a perception protrayed from the media when just below you admit that many of their candidates + many of their voters are in fact bigoted, is it?
The fact is, you're voting and supporting those people when you go with UKIP, even if you don't believe you yourself are that way.
it's a perception when you call it "the bigot party". Just because you vote the party doesn't mean you support the man. I personally dislike the conservative MP of my constituency. but I like what the party has done overall and the leaders of the party, cameron,osborne etc.
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
so you voted for the bigotry party? well done
i voted for the only party that actually wants us to leave the eu, yes, but if you want to fire enormous generalisation shots, go ahead
Generalisation is only a problem when it's untrue
so you're calling me a bigot, lovely.
it's an unfortunate perception of UKIP which has been portrayed by the media and other parties. I don't disagree with everything that UKIP does. Unfortunately I think a lot of there candidates are bigoted or racist and that a lot of people who vote ukip are cut from the same cloth. I understand that a lot of UKIP voters are disenfranchised conservative voters and are anti-brussels not anti-foreigner but unfortunately a lot of people aren't aware of that side of things
It's not really simply a perception protrayed from the media when just below you admit that many of their candidates + many of their voters are in fact bigoted, is it?
The fact is, you're voting and supporting those people when you go with UKIP, even if you don't believe you yourself are that way.
it's a perception when you call it "the bigot party". Just because you vote the party doesn't mean you support the man. I personally dislike the conservative MP of my constituency. but I like what the party has done overall and the leaders of the party, cameron,osborne etc.
yes, a perception based on the things they say and do, which doesn't seem a particularly unfair perception
The fact is, you're voting and supporting those people when you go with UKIP, even if you don't believe you yourself are that way.
several labour mp's went to prison over the expenses scandal, a labour peer is getting away with child sex offences, if you want to go full hyperbole a former labour leader commited war crimes. by your rationale, all labour voters endorse serious criminality
On May 08 2015 20:05 sixfour wrote: equally happy and furious with the result, scotland telling the mainstream parties to fuck off is glorious, labour making no ground whatsoever in england is great, lib dem armageddon is wonderful, at the same time the tories actually sneaking a majority kills a lot of the fun we could have had, and being part of 3.7 million voters who get 1 seat shows what a joke our system is
so you voted for the bigotry party? well done
i voted for the only party that actually wants us to leave the eu, yes, but if you want to fire enormous generalisation shots, go ahead
Generalisation is only a problem when it's untrue
so you're calling me a bigot, lovely.
it's an unfortunate perception of UKIP which has been portrayed by the media and other parties. I don't disagree with everything that UKIP does. Unfortunately I think a lot of there candidates are bigoted or racist and that a lot of people who vote ukip are cut from the same cloth. I understand that a lot of UKIP voters are disenfranchised conservative voters and are anti-brussels not anti-foreigner but unfortunately a lot of people aren't aware of that side of things
It's not really simply a perception protrayed from the media when just below you admit that many of their candidates + many of their voters are in fact bigoted, is it?
The fact is, you're voting and supporting those people when you go with UKIP, even if you don't believe you yourself are that way.
it's a perception when you call it "the bigot party". Just because you vote the party doesn't mean you support the man. I personally dislike the conservative MP of my constituency. but I like what the party has done overall and the leaders of the party, cameron,osborne etc.
yes, a perception based on the things they say and do, which doesn't seem a particularly unfair perception
"they" being certain candidates and voters. The overall party line isn't "we hate foreign people" the line is tougher control on immigration and a pull away from Europe so Britain has more control over its laws. None of that is bigoted and that is probably what a lot of ukip people voted for. I think the media did a poor job putting that side across and focused more on negative candidates.
EPT
