EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 464
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Kerotan
England2111 Posts
May cannot prattle on about her deal anymore, Labour are about as effective chocolate teapot, The Lib Dems are consistent, but will only ever back up a very soft Brexit or remain block, and the ERG have tripped over themselves and failed to gain a consensus in their party. I mean who the fuck do I vote for next time around? The system is utterly fucked. Oh and don't get me started on Gove, dude is a backstabbing pisswheel of a man. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
The EU will not renegotiate so Mays deal is still relevant as it is the only deal and if you want to leave the EU with a deal that is the only offer. Labour is lead by a team the Parliamentary party hate and he is secretly a brexiteer but has to guide the party in a way that doesn't make it obvious. Just leads to paralysis as each parties contradictions render no majority possible, I'd say the ERG have the best position as the default outcome, there are also talks of backing Corbyn's no confidence motion in late Feb as by law you need 14 days to get a new government and then a further 25 days before a general election (in which time no legislation can pass) can take place, this would take us beyond March 29th and we would have left without a deal. | ||
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Kerotan
England2111 Posts
On January 17 2019 07:33 Zaros wrote: Once brexit is sorted the party system will normalise but you currently have a party within a party regarding brexit for the conservatives with the ERG basically running its own whipping operation and it is clear they can now organise around 115 MPs for what they want. The EU will not renegotiate so Mays deal is still relevant as it is the only deal and if you want to leave the EU with a deal that is the only offer. Labour is lead by a team the Parliamentary party hate and he is secretly a brexiteer but has to guide the party in a way that doesn't make it obvious. Just leads to paralysis as each parties contradictions render no majority possible, I'd say the ERG have the best position as the default outcome, there are also talks of backing Corbyn's no confidence motion in late Feb as by law you need 14 days to get a new government and then a further 25 days before a general election (in which time no legislation can pass) can take place, this would take us beyond March 29th and we would have left without a deal. Sorted how lol? and the voting system is still fucked. FPTP is terrible. May's deal is dead, it just lost by the widest margin in the history of the house. In order to not have the chaos of a no deal, something has to change. Regarding the EU renegotiating, that is a very difficult problem to solve, if the government changes its red lines then maybe it could happen? I do not see how May's deal ever passes. (because it has to be passed by the house right?) It is political suicide for anyone who voted against it first go around, May has to put it to the house, which should be political suicide (the hypocrisy of no more referendums, but a second vote for the most hated vote in history) but she is dead politically 5 times over by this point. I don't want no deal but I don't want the deal of a utterly toxic government, and this isn't the trolley problem here. The choices were not thrust upon us in the fell clutch of circumstance, its a false binary choice where I the citizen have to choose between a turd and even smellier turd, and all to appease racist and xenophobic fucks that live in this fucking country. | ||
KwarK
United States43991 Posts
On January 01 2019 02:21 KwarK wrote: It’s a disaster. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On January 17 2019 07:33 Zaros wrote: Once brexit is sorted the party system will normalise but you currently have a party within a party regarding brexit for the conservatives with the ERG basically running its own whipping operation and it is clear they can now organise around 115 MPs for what they want. The EU will not renegotiate so Mays deal is still relevant as it is the only deal and if you want to leave the EU with a deal that is the only offer. Labour is lead by a team the Parliamentary party hate and he is secretly a brexiteer but has to guide the party in a way that doesn't make it obvious. Just leads to paralysis as each parties contradictions render no majority possible, I'd say the ERG have the best position as the default outcome, there are also talks of backing Corbyn's no confidence motion in late Feb as by law you need 14 days to get a new government and then a further 25 days before a general election (in which time no legislation can pass) can take place, this would take us beyond March 29th and we would have left without a deal. There's nothing secret about it. Corbyn has always disliked the EU and been fairly clear in his opinions concerning it. | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
If they wanted to have left then they would have supported mays deal. They didn't support,they don't want to leave that's so obvious (at least to me). Now May will go for an even softer brexit,norway option or something. With help of labour to get a majority for that in parliament. Maybe a few hardline brexiteers from the conservatives will split of but they will be quickly forgotten after next elections and then everything is back to normal. with Britain still more or less inside the eu but at least after having officially left. A happy end for everyone besides for the hard line conservative brexiteers who will end up with nothing. Some of the new media are speculating it has all been planned and this (an even softer brexit then mays deal) has been the goal since day one. I don't know but it does not seem impossible to me. Corbyn is critizising the eu because its a popular thing to say,but he does not really want to leave. That has been my opinion from the start dozens of pages back. Then there came the explanation of old and new labour which made me doubt but I am sure again:corbyn (and labour as a whole for that matter) do not want to leave the eu at all and they will happily support the most soft version of brexit that is possible and only because skipping on any sort of brexit completely seems impossible. Anyway,we will know soon. Next week it will be known what mays plans are now. | ||
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Banaora
Germany234 Posts
With May's deal which is the EU's deal voted down the sensible option would be to just remain. It was fun thanks for all the fish we stay. Conservative MP Dominic Grieve tabled a bill to prepare for a second EU referendum which is supposedly voted on in the coming days. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22373 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9848 Posts
On January 17 2019 11:15 Banaora wrote: Norway would be so stupid for a country like the UK because it would mean having all the obligations without having a say. In my opinion the UK is too big for that. With May's deal which is the EU's deal voted down the sensible option would be to just remain. It was fun thanks for all the fish we stay. Conservative MP Dominic Grieve tabled a bill to prepare for a second EU referendum which is supposedly voted on in the coming days. Everyone knows what the sensible option is, but they don't want to lose the votes of leavers - who for some reason still think that they want to leave for the right reasons and weren't completely duped. | ||
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KwarK
United States43991 Posts
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On January 17 2019 10:38 pmh wrote: Despite all the old and new labour differences the party as a whole still does not want to leave the eu. If they wanted to have left then they would have supported mays deal. They didn't support,they don't want to leave that's so obvious (at least to me). Now May will go for an even softer brexit,norway option or something. With help of labour to get a majority for that in parliament. Maybe a few hardline brexiteers from the conservatives will split of but they will be quickly forgotten after next elections and then everything is back to normal. with Britain still more or less inside the eu but at least after having officially left. A happy end for everyone besides for the hard line conservative brexiteers who will end up with nothing. Some of the new media are speculating it has all been planned and this (an even softer brexit then mays deal) has been the goal since day one. I don't know but it does not seem impossible to me. Corbyn is critizising the eu because its a popular thing to say,but he does not really want to leave. That has been my opinion from the start dozens of pages back. Then there came the explanation of old and new labour which made me doubt but I am sure again:corbyn (and labour as a whole for that matter) do not want to leave the eu at all and they will happily support the most soft version of brexit that is possible and only because skipping on any sort of brexit completely seems impossible. Anyway,we will know soon. Next week it will be known what mays plans are now. Corbyn's politics are very different from the party that he leads. That's why there was a massive challenge to his authority a year or two back. I'd say more than three quarters of his MPs (since he didn't do any house cleaning afterward) want him gone and replaced with Angela Eagle or another more Blairish Labour leader. He's personally always disliked the EU, but the Party as a whole and the membership are remainers. As I've noted on Corbyn many times, he sticks by his personal values and politics unto the gates of hell itself. The fact that he's anti-EU has been a seriously damaging thing for his public appeal (several of my Labour friends actively dislike him now and blame him for this shitshow as much as they do May, because Corbyn's preventing Labour from presenting a united front or really engaging with the issue). I appreciate his lack of compromise and general honesty, but I would certainly rather he had a different view on this subject. Not least because it increases the chance of Michael fucking Gove being next PM. EDIT: Said the wrong MP with an A in her first name originally | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On January 17 2019 18:16 iamthedave wrote: Corbyn's politics are very different from the party that he leads. That's why there was a massive challenge to his authority a year or two back. I'd say more than three quarters of his MPs (since he didn't do any house cleaning afterward) want him gone and replaced with Amber Rudd or another more Blairish Labour leader. do you mean Angela Eagle?  | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
Whoops. Yes I did. Edited to match. | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
Preparing a 2nd referendum in the hope to get rid of the brexit all together. They are also discussing various forms in which this referendum would take place. There are more options then a simple yes or no,for example multiple questions and 2nd choices.They will try do it in such a way that remain has good odds to win else the whole 2nd referendum would be pointless to begin with. I am not in favor of brexit but to me this is a joke. But o well,whatever gets the job done. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On January 17 2019 23:56 pmh wrote: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-17/may-opens-talks-with-opponents-to-end-impasse-brexit-update Preparing a 2nd referendum in the hope to get rid of the brexit all together. They are also discussing various forms in which this referendum would take place. There are more options then a simple yes or no,for example multiple questions and 2nd choices.They will try do it in such a way that remain has good odds to win else the whole 2nd referendum would be pointless to begin with. I am not in favor of brexit but to me this is a joke. But o well,whatever gets the job done. Oh great, so there will be referendum every 2 years withswinging 52% majorities Lets try again, this time we get a great deal... Oh shit, brexit sucks, lets cancel it. But thiiiis time we will dobetter, lets leave... Oh didnt work this time either... Last time only idiots negotiated... Now we will show em... Uh... Again not... | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On January 17 2019 23:56 pmh wrote: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-17/may-opens-talks-with-opponents-to-end-impasse-brexit-update Preparing a 2nd referendum in the hope to get rid of the brexit all together. They are also discussing various forms in which this referendum would take place. There are more options then a simple yes or no,for example multiple questions and 2nd choices.They will try do it in such a way that remain has good odds to win else the whole 2nd referendum would be pointless to begin with. I am not in favor of brexit but to me this is a joke. But o well,whatever gets the job done. I disagree that tinkering with the wording of the referendum would give remain greater odds to win. I think if you put the same yes/no referendum to the people right now, with everything that has happened, the remain vote would be much greater. I've always been of the belief that such a monumental decision could not be boiled down to a simple yes/no vote. Nor should such a big change be passed with a simple majority. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9848 Posts
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/17/brexit-department-uses-seven-gagging-orders-firms-plan-for-no-deal Whitehall’s Brexit department has enforced seven “gagging orders” on outsourcing firms and suppliers working on no-deal preparations, despite Theresa May’s previous criticism of such contracts. The disclosure comes as Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra), run by Michael Gove, confirmed for the first time that it had also asked suppliers to sign non-disclosure agreements [NDAs] as it geared up for the possibility of the UK crashing out of Europe. Six government departments have now admitted using NDAs on more than 62 partners working on no-deal preparations, preventing them from revealing any information related to contingency plans. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On January 17 2019 18:16 iamthedave wrote: As I've noted on Corbyn many times, he sticks by his personal values and politics unto the gates of hell itself. The fact that he's anti-EU has been a seriously damaging thing for his public appeal (several of my Labour friends actively dislike him now and blame him for this shitshow as much as they do May, because Corbyn's preventing Labour from presenting a united front or really engaging with the issue). I appreciate his lack of compromise and general honesty, but I would certainly rather he had a different view on this subject. Not least because it increases the chance of Michael fucking Gove being next PM. EDIT: Said the wrong MP with an A in her first name originally And at the same time you say he's been lying about his stance for three years straight in every speech and every interview? Seems a bit contradictory to me. Just answer me this, do you think he's honest when he demands that May takes no-deal Brexit off the table or is it just theater? | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
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