UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 164

On June 26 2016 07:10 Gorsameth wrote:

Also who else has the economy to be able to leave? France/Germany, who else?
Spain? Italy? Greece? HA
Netherlands? No way.

On June 26 2016 07:30 Rebs wrote:


He has a point there, you were being to general before, while this is all true it is just a vehicle for latent bigotry and xenophobia.

On June 26 2016 07:35 Velr wrote:
Just check Switzerland during the (early) 90ies when it wasn't part of the EU-Market... It basically stagnated/grew slower than everyone else. That changed as soon as we could take part (whiteout being in the EU, but we have to pay and basically follow most EU rules including immigration laws and many payments).

If the UK gets out, and isn't willing or allowed to get a "Switzerland-Deal", which would run against everything the "leave" people wantet. In short: The UK will hurt.

On June 26 2016 08:03 Lonyo wrote:
The real issue is that there is no homogenous "leave" group. They don't all want the same thing, most don't know exactly what they do want, and they aren't going to be happy with what they get.

On June 26 2016 07:35 Velr wrote:
Just check Switzerland during the (early) 90ies when it wasn't part of the EU-Market... It basically stagnated/grew slower than everyone else. That changed as soon as we could take part (whiteout being in the EU, but we have to pay and basically follow most EU rules including immigration laws and many payments).

If the UK gets out, and isn't willing or allowed to get a "Switzerland-Deal", which would run against everything the "leave" people wanted, the UK will hurt.

The Labour leader is facing a no confidence vote over claims he fought a "lacklustre" campaign in the EU vote.
A Labour source told the BBC Mr Corbyn had "lost confidence" in Mr Benn.

Mr Benn said there was "widespread concern" about Mr Corbyn's "leadership and his ability to win an election".
He added: "There is no confidence to win the next election if Jeremy continues as leader.

"In a phone call to Jeremy I told him I had lost confidence in his ability to lead the party and he dismissed me."

Senior Labour sources also told the BBC that a significant number of shadow cabinet resignations were likely if Mr Corbyn were to ignore the result of the confidence vote.

UK opposition leader sacks shadow foreign secretary over party coup

(Reuters) - The leader of Britain's main opposition Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, sacked his shadow foreign minister on Sunday, media reported, after he said he would resist any attempt to oust him.

Corbyn has been criticised by some of Labour's elected lawmakers who say he did not campaign hard enough in support of EU membership, and had failed to convince millions of voters in the party's heartlands to back "Remain".

Hours after the 52 to 48 percent vote in favour of Brexit, or a British exit, which triggered financial and political turmoil across the globe, two lawmakers submitted a motion of no confidence in Corbyn. Others have also called for his resignation.

Corbyn sacked shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn, The Observer newspaper said.

"It is understood that Benn had called fellow MPs over the weekend to suggest that he would ask Corbyn to stand down if there was significant support for a move against him," The Observer newspaper said. "He had also asked shadow cabinet colleagues to join him in resigning if Corbyn ignored that request."

A spokesman for Benn declined to comment, the newspaper added.

Corbyn informed Benn that he was sacking him because he had lost the Labour leader’s trust, the newspaper quoted a Corbyn spokesman as saying.

Other British media also reported Corbyn's sacking of Benn.

In his first speech since the vote, Corbyn on Saturday emphasised the large mandate given to him by party activists at a leadership contest last year, in which he was swept to victory on a wave of support for his left-wing political agenda.

Asked whether he would stand for re-election in any leadership contest, he said: "Yes, I'm here."

"There are some people in the Labour Party ... who would want probably somebody else to be the leader of the Labour Party, they've made that abundantly clear.

"What I'm totally amazed by is that in the past 24 hours 140,000 people have said they do not want the Labour Party to spend the next two months debating the leadership," he said, citing an online petition calling for him to remain leader.

Benn also publicly disagreed with Corbyn in September over air strikes on Syria. The decision to extend bombing to Syria divided the party, opposed by Corbyn but supported by Benn in a passionate speech in parliament.

Around one third of Labour voters are estimated to have backed a British exit from the EU on Thursday, with many of those coming from traditional working class areas where high immigration tops the list of public concerns.

Responding to criticism from Labour colleagues that he had failed to address those concerns, Corbyn said there needed to be a national dialogue on immigration to reach a new settlement.

"We can't duck the issue of immigration, clearly it was a factor," he said. "We need to start an open and honest debate."

Corbyn said Thursday's vote showed a backlash against the EU principle of free movement. But he added that if Britain wanted to retain access to the European single market - one of many issues cast into doubt by the vote - he believed it would have to accept free movement as a condition of that deal.

"If we were part of the single market in future, then clearly that would be accompanied by the continuing free movement of people," he said.

On June 26 2016 08:03 Lonyo wrote:
The real issue is that there is no homogenous "leave" group. They don't all want the same thing, most don't know exactly what they do want, and they aren't going to be happy with what they get.

On June 26 2016 17:32 Kickboxer wrote:
This whole thing is a shocking lesson in digital-age democracy. If the EU and its people can learn from it, it should have serious historical ramifications. And if we don't I think it's pretty safe to say we are fucked.

I'm not sufficiently informed to have a committed opinion on the result, but people "changing their mind" 24 hours after the biggest decision in their nation's recent history sounds like an episode of British comedy to me.

It will be crazy interesting to see, looking back at this event 10 years from now, how the UK - or whatever is left of it - is actually doing.

On June 26 2016 17:38 NukeD wrote:

Dobt buy into the propaganda. Everyone makes it look like as if if the referendum was held again the result would be 70%+ for remain which i highly doubt.

On June 26 2016 12:15 Nyxisto wrote:
Also after the the immigration referendum in Switzerland two years ago that wasn't compliant with EU rules the Erasmus program was frozen. I have no idea if that's still in place but if the UK isn't going to get that back it's going to suck for students big time.

On June 26 2016 16:57 Mafe wrote:

This is surely true, but I think the same could be said about "remain" (ok, they might be a bit more homogenous). Or pretty much every group of people ever voting on a topic which such complex and largely unknown consequences.

On June 26 2016 07:49 DeepElemBlues wrote:


Disappointed Remain supporters haven't been making many distinctions as to who is to blame for their loss. When Polly Toynbee lays out 1000 words breaking down in minute detail the demographics of the vote so no working class Remain voter is unfairly maligned, I'll be sure to follow suit until the truth of class and cultural division in Britain (and across the West) is obscured in a dirty puddle of exactitude.

Telling people that their motivations are simply bigoted and xenophobic failed. Browbeating of that nature failed. It's almost Puritan in nature, the strategy of using virtue-signaling and public shaming to gain or reinforce political outcomes. Calling Leave supporters bigots and xenophobes did not reduce Leave's appeal, which leaves two conclusions to choose from: bigotry and xenophobia has great appeal and motivational power among the masses, or they are not quite as motivated by bigotry and xenophobia as asserted.

It might be time for a new strategy, one that doesn't insist on dismissing political disagreement as being caused by Unacceptable Beliefs. Racism is the kiss of death in modern Western politics. Trying to take advantage of that by casting political opponents as motivated by racism failed to work this time, not enough people believed it. Not that that was the main pillar of the Remain strategy, but it certainly was something many Remain supporters could not resist from doing. And still can't. If these people really are racists, the thing to do is to persuade them that racism is wrong, not browbeat them about it. That makes them defensive and angry. And when they really aren't racist (which they aren't, most of them anyway), it makes them even more defensive and even more angry.