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Merkel is going to make a statement at 12:30 CET, very curious what she's going to say.
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On June 24 2016 16:28 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 16:17 RvB wrote:On June 24 2016 16:04 Wegandi wrote:On June 24 2016 15:53 maartendq wrote:On June 24 2016 15:41 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 15:31 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 15:20 RvB wrote:On June 24 2016 15:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:On June 24 2016 15:15 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 13:20 amazingxkcd wrote:
[quote]
could see Denmark and netherlands holding referendum if #Brexit wins Dutch person here, I have not heard anybody about a Dutch referendum for leaving the EU (except for our local Clown Trump), and after the disaster that was this years' referendum, I doubt it'd be easy to get going without changing some of those laws first (min 30% participation, it's very likely that rule completely fucked over the results of the Ukraine referendum) BBC says 54% of Dutch voters want to have a referendum. As to what shakes out between the UK and the EU, there is nothing keeping the UK and EU from coming to very friendly arrangements except human emotion. If the EU wants to act all butthurt and/or whoever runs the UK after Cameron wants to be a sore winner, then both sides could tit-for-tat each other and harm everyone. If they want to put their emotions aside, satisfactory arrangements for commerce between the UK and EU member states can and will be found. Our referendums are non binding though and the last one was a total disaster with 32% or something turning out. Technically speaking this UK referendum was non-binding in a similar manner. It is just that Cameron (et al.) 'made' it binding. As for the 32% turn out rate (was actually between 30-31% in the end, it was a result of the 30% treshhold that is in place to make the referendum 'official'. This made it so a lot of people didn't vote "strategically" so the referendum would be void. We ended up in a situation in which 60% voted "NO", but it is very very very very very likely the general population is in favor of the Ukraine agreement. Which is superawkward. Well i seriously doubt that an EU membership referendum would get only 30% turnout. The bigger the issue the more turnout yes? It's funny that people actually believe that big decisions like this should be left to a plebiscite. Stuff like this is way too big to be left to the people's gut feeling of the moment. In UK oriented countries (e.g. Common Law countries), the plebs decide life and death, which is the most important decision people can make. Granted, in the US you need unanimity, but it's also only 12 people...so...It just seems like people are in favor of democracy until democracy doesn't suit them anymore. Funny that. For all the shit the US gets, damn man, I didn't realize how much more we rely on the people to make most decisions than European countries. Honestly, though you're going to sit there and say that it shouldn't be up to the people who should for lack of better term "rule them" (oh how I wish no one was an option (Check box for Clinton, Check box for Trump, Check box for Johnson, Check box for Abolish this Office :p) on the ballot...just once, please!)? That's what this was about. Just curious, can the people vote to change their constitutions (one of the most important part of voting imho in the US is for all the state amendment votes that come up), or do you leave that up to whatever political Government body? When did the US have a referendum for the last time though? I don't think there's much of a difference. In The Netherlands there are at least 5 different things which you can vote for (both 2 houses of parliament, regional government, local government, european parliament and the water board). As far as I am aware only 2 States hold referendum's and we don't have any national referendum's. The US has so much crap to vote on, Senator/Rep for both DC and your State, Chief of Police/Sheriff/Judge(s)/Water councils/Local councilman/Mayor/etc., but for me, the most important are the votes on amendments to State Constitutions. http://dos.myflorida.com/elections/candidates-committees/offices-up-for-election/http://dos.myflorida.com/elections/laws-rules/constitutional-amendments/That's just offices. There are ballot initiatives you vote on for your city as well as State amendments to the Constitution, etc. On top of that, people can participate in jury duty and other civic engagements. Common Law countries just have much more participation in more things for the plebs. Which was my main objection to the post that something as important as choosing your own "ruler" shouldn't be up to the people, but to some technocrats or other Government bureaucrats. I have a good feeling that if this referendum was solely about the economic/trade side of the EU that remain would have walloped leave, but that's not what this vote was about. The people voting for leave aren't voting on an economic basis, but about self-determination and national sovereignty. As an American, that's something I can really empathize with. I wish I could get a vote in Florida on whether to remain or leave the US. :p
California does ballot propositions and it's generally a mess. Granted California has a larger economy by gdp than France with two thirds the population so that would practically be a national referendum if California was a European nation.
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Seeing the eggs on the faces of german journalists is nearly worth the trouble. I still somehow doubt that the establishment heard the ever louder growing warning shots after AFD succes in Germany, Brexit votum, FPÖ success in Austria, eu critical candidate winning in Rome and so on. My guess is they'll just insult the voters.
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On June 24 2016 16:32 Cam Connor wrote:
hope you guys bought some cheap downside protection
I'll be buying options for when the markets will go up again. The dutch stock market already lost 9%!
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is there a livestream for merkels conference?
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On June 24 2016 16:30 Cam Connor wrote:what a day fx ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YYIaCnh.png) Will probably recover in the coming days. Gut reactions on the market are never representative 
On June 24 2016 16:30 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 16:17 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 16:16 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 16:01 HolydaKing wrote:Very interesting link, thanks! Graph just shows how out of touch London and the rich commuter towns are with the rest of England.London is sucking the wealth from the rest of the country, the process was rapidly accelerated under Thatcher. I found the education and Age graphs considerably mor einteresting. I did too, it's no surprise that London would vote against much of england as their demographic is wildly different. Education very strongly correlating to remain votes and young voting remain, old voting leave is much more interesting
Old voting leave? I can find some reasons to explain that. Us vs Them mentality, EU offers them considerably less than the youth, the reason from instinct, not facts, etc.
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United Kingdom20344 Posts
Old voting leave? I can find some reasons to explain that. Us vs Them mentality, EU offers them considerably less than the youth, the reason from instinct, not facts, etc.
Education is the biggest thing that i'm surprised by, as well as maybe the % of remain for scotland and for the youngest age bracket. It's drastically different for 18-24 voters than for 25-49
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On June 24 2016 16:35 trifecta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 16:28 Wegandi wrote:On June 24 2016 16:17 RvB wrote:On June 24 2016 16:04 Wegandi wrote:On June 24 2016 15:53 maartendq wrote:On June 24 2016 15:41 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 15:31 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 15:20 RvB wrote:On June 24 2016 15:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:On June 24 2016 15:15 SC2Toastie wrote:
[quote]
Dutch person here,
I have not heard anybody about a Dutch referendum for leaving the EU (except for our local Clown Trump), and after the disaster that was this years' referendum, I doubt it'd be easy to get going without changing some of those laws first (min 30% participation, it's very likely that rule completely fucked over the results of the Ukraine referendum) BBC says 54% of Dutch voters want to have a referendum. As to what shakes out between the UK and the EU, there is nothing keeping the UK and EU from coming to very friendly arrangements except human emotion. If the EU wants to act all butthurt and/or whoever runs the UK after Cameron wants to be a sore winner, then both sides could tit-for-tat each other and harm everyone. If they want to put their emotions aside, satisfactory arrangements for commerce between the UK and EU member states can and will be found. Our referendums are non binding though and the last one was a total disaster with 32% or something turning out. Technically speaking this UK referendum was non-binding in a similar manner. It is just that Cameron (et al.) 'made' it binding. As for the 32% turn out rate (was actually between 30-31% in the end, it was a result of the 30% treshhold that is in place to make the referendum 'official'. This made it so a lot of people didn't vote "strategically" so the referendum would be void. We ended up in a situation in which 60% voted "NO", but it is very very very very very likely the general population is in favor of the Ukraine agreement. Which is superawkward. Well i seriously doubt that an EU membership referendum would get only 30% turnout. The bigger the issue the more turnout yes? It's funny that people actually believe that big decisions like this should be left to a plebiscite. Stuff like this is way too big to be left to the people's gut feeling of the moment. In UK oriented countries (e.g. Common Law countries), the plebs decide life and death, which is the most important decision people can make. Granted, in the US you need unanimity, but it's also only 12 people...so...It just seems like people are in favor of democracy until democracy doesn't suit them anymore. Funny that. For all the shit the US gets, damn man, I didn't realize how much more we rely on the people to make most decisions than European countries. Honestly, though you're going to sit there and say that it shouldn't be up to the people who should for lack of better term "rule them" (oh how I wish no one was an option (Check box for Clinton, Check box for Trump, Check box for Johnson, Check box for Abolish this Office :p) on the ballot...just once, please!)? That's what this was about. Just curious, can the people vote to change their constitutions (one of the most important part of voting imho in the US is for all the state amendment votes that come up), or do you leave that up to whatever political Government body? When did the US have a referendum for the last time though? I don't think there's much of a difference. In The Netherlands there are at least 5 different things which you can vote for (both 2 houses of parliament, regional government, local government, european parliament and the water board). As far as I am aware only 2 States hold referendum's and we don't have any national referendum's. The US has so much crap to vote on, Senator/Rep for both DC and your State, Chief of Police/Sheriff/Judge(s)/Water councils/Local councilman/Mayor/etc., but for me, the most important are the votes on amendments to State Constitutions. http://dos.myflorida.com/elections/candidates-committees/offices-up-for-election/http://dos.myflorida.com/elections/laws-rules/constitutional-amendments/That's just offices. There are ballot initiatives you vote on for your city as well as State amendments to the Constitution, etc. On top of that, people can participate in jury duty and other civic engagements. Common Law countries just have much more participation in more things for the plebs. Which was my main objection to the post that something as important as choosing your own "ruler" shouldn't be up to the people, but to some technocrats or other Government bureaucrats. I have a good feeling that if this referendum was solely about the economic/trade side of the EU that remain would have walloped leave, but that's not what this vote was about. The people voting for leave aren't voting on an economic basis, but about self-determination and national sovereignty. As an American, that's something I can really empathize with. I wish I could get a vote in Florida on whether to remain or leave the US. :p California does ballot propositions and it's generally a mess. Granted California has a larger economy by gdp than France with two thirds the population so that would practically be a national referendum if California was a European nation.
I think everyone remembers the bugaboo Prop 9 lol. Ya, California props are a mess....other States don't have as many issues. I'm hoping we can get some drug legalization stuff passed this year in Florida. At least this way we can bypass the idiotic State-Government (thank god for citizen initiatives). Also, when I eventually move to NH, there is a lot more local civic participation and that's generally true for most of the North East. We got any Mainers or Live Free or Diers in here to chime in?
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On June 24 2016 16:27 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 16:24 xM(Z wrote:On June 24 2016 16:10 Cyro wrote:On June 24 2016 16:01 HolydaKing wrote:Very interesting link, thanks! That's pretty amazing, wow can someone enlighten me about what's so amazing in that link?. i see the rich and their groupies voting remain and the poor and scared voted leave. what's the practical connection with education?. how can the education have the consequences they said it has?. Because apparantly there is a correlation between highly educated (people that, on average, are informed, understand the mechanisms) and the youth (people that, on average, are informed, and HIGHLY affected) that want to remain, and on the other hand older people (less informed, less affected) and poor (BLAME THE EU) to leave.
- do they have university level pro-EU courses in UK?.
- do those old and/or poor people lack the (mental?)capability to understand the latest debates on this issue?.
Edit:
On June 24 2016 16:26 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 16:23 HolydaKing wrote:
I think France might follow, Le Pen already said they want to try it too and I'm not sure if the French would vote differently. Might be the start of the end for EU. Le Pen usually gets slaughtered in the second round of voting, so no chance of that ever happening. People urgently need to stop blaming the EU problems that are entirely home-brewn.
you blame those who rule you.
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On June 24 2016 16:18 Inex wrote:
Great, another "victory" for democracy. Whoever shouts louder gets heard. Hopefully that won't trigger a break up of the EU, because this is the last thing we need today. We don't need the rise of more "populist" parties in Europe, some of which openly racist.
Why don't we need that stuff? What do we need?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Merkel and Sarkozy must be seething right now and who can blame them.
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On June 24 2016 16:48 Pandemona wrote:
Merkel and Sarkozy must be seething right now and who can blame them.
Hollande mate. Sarkozy hasn't been the French president for a while.
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BoE governor has made it clear there wont be a liquidity crisis
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On the positive side, this might be the last time that the UK will be able to influence mainland politics. They might, however, have a hard time getting used to being just an island nation no-one really has to listen to anymore. Centuries of influencing mainland power politics must have been addicting.
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Corbyn is now in trouble 1/4 of labour MPs are set to sign a letter asking him to go
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On June 24 2016 16:48 Pandemona wrote:
Merkel and Sarkozy must be seething right now and who can blame them.
Merkel has nobody to blame but herself for this.
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So who will be the next PM?
Is it actually going to be Boris/Nigel?
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EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2Qh8daj.png)
