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On June 24 2016 15:32 m4ini wrote: One thing that i've just read on reuters..
The majority of "out voters" are old farts, the majority of "in voters" are young people. Now one can argue that the youth is dumb etc, but it seems odd to me that a decision of this magnitude isn't made by the generation that will live to see what fruit it bears.
People, in fact, today literally fucked their kids over. Youth unemployment over 50% in Greece due to EU imposed austerity measures,Spain 45%, Italy 40%. This result is the best outcome for youth across Europe.European union must fall, red tape must be removed.
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On June 24 2016 15:26 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 15:13 RvB wrote:Global markets buckled as Britain’s vote on European Union membership infected every asset class.
The pound plunged by a record and the euro slid by the most since it was introduced in 1999 as the BBC projected a victory for the "Leave" campaign with most votes counted in Britain’s referendum on membership of the European Union. South Africa’s rand led slides among the currencies of commodity-exporting nations as oil sank to about $47 a barrel and industrial metals slumped. The yen surged and gold soared with U.S. Treasuries as investors piled into haven assets. Futures on the FTSE 100 Index plunged with S&P 500 Index contracts as Asian stocks dropped by the most in five years.
“It’s scary, and I’ve never seen anything like it,” said James Butterfill, head of research and investments at ETF Securities, said by phone from London. “We’re going to see outflows from basically any kind of cyclical asset. A lot of people were caught out, and many investors will lose a lot of money.”
The debate over the U.K.’s EU membership has dominated investor sentiment throughout June, with appetite for riskier assets having built up over the past week as bookmakers’ odds suggested the chance of a so-called Brexit was less than one in four. The victory for the "Leave" campaign will fan speculation that more countries could withdraw from the EU and finance officials in the world’s biggest economies may intervene as reaction in financial markets proves reminiscent of late 2008, at the height of the global financial crisis.
At 5:11 a.m. London time, BBC projections showed voters backing “Leave” by 52 percent to 48 percent. U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron warned Brexit would tip the country into recession, while JPMorgan Chase & Co. and HSBC Holdings Plc warned such as outcome would lead them to move thousands of jobs out of London.
These are among the most notable moves in global financial markets:
British pound falls as much as 11 percent to $1.3229, weakest since 1985
Yen jumps 4.7 percent to 101.36 per dollar, after surging past 100 for first time since 2013
Japan’s Topix index leads Asian stock losses, down 7.9 percent
FTSE 100 Index futures tumble 8 percent; S&P 500 Index contracts slump as much as 5.1 percent, the maximum move allowed
Yield on 10-year Treasuries drops 29 basis points to 1.46 percent, set for biggest daily decline since 2009; similar Japanese yield reaches record-low minus 0.215
New York crude oil retreats 6.3 percent to $46.93 a barrel, poised for biggest loss since Jan. 20
Gold rallies as much as 8.1 percent to $1,358.54 an ounce, highest since March 2014
South Africa’s rand plunged 6.4 percent against the dollar and reached a record low versus the yen; Mexico’s peso slid 6.1 percent to 19.33, near its all-time low
Poland’s zloty dropped by the most since 1993
The iTraxx Asia index of credit-default swaps rose by the most in three months
The pound was down 9.8 percent as of 2:15 p.m. in Tokyo, more than double its previous record drop of 4.1 percent recorded in 1992, when the currency was was forced out of Europe’s exchange-rate mechanism.
“This is a very challenging situation but the reality is that market liquidity and overall liquidity in the U.K. is drying up as we speak in a very rapid way,” said John Woods, chief investment officer for Asia-Pacific at Credit Suisse Private Banking, told Bloomberg TV in Hong Kong. “It’s highly likely that we see monetary easing in a coordinated response” from central banks across the world, he said.
The euro slumped 3.8 percent, while currencies in Norway, Sweden and Turkey posted even steeper losses.
Japan’s currency jumped by the most since 1998 versus the dollar.
“All hell is breaking loose,” says Vishnu Varathan, a senior economist in Singapore at Mizuho Bank Ltd. “The only surefire is you buy yen, you buy U.S. Treasuries, you buy gold, and you sit tight."
Stocks The MSCI Asia Pacific Index declined 4.3 percent as benchmarks retreated across the region.
British insurer Prudential Plc, HSBC and Standard Chartered Plc all slid more than 10 percent in Hong Kong. Glencore Plc tumbled 13 percent.
Commodities The Bloomberg Commodity Index fell 2.1 percent, its biggest loss of the year.
Crude oil tumbled as much as 6.8 percent in New York. Copper and nickel dropped more than 3 percent in London. Gold was up 5.9 percent.
“Gold will be a preferred safe-haven asset with a ‘Leave’ vote,” said Barnabas Gan, an economist at Singapore-based Oversea-Chinese Banking Corp, who forecast that it could rally to as much as $1,400 if ‘Remain’ loses. Bullion’s expected to remain volatile until the final verdict is out, according to Gan. www.bloomberg.com The dutch stock market will take the biggest fall of all markets today I think. They are hurt the most with the brexit,maybe even more then Britain itself. Germany wont be pretty either but think the Netherlands will be slightly worse still. What eu gonna do now, Print even more money? Most likely more monetary easing in all the world to soften the impact yes. More importantly than the stock markets is that we lost a key liberal ally in the EU. The Netherlands and the UK were pretty aligned on a lot of issues including euroscepticism.
On June 24 2016 15:50 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 15:32 m4ini wrote: One thing that i've just read on reuters..
The majority of "out voters" are old farts, the majority of "in voters" are young people. Now one can argue that the youth is dumb etc, but it seems odd to me that a decision of this magnitude isn't made by the generation that will live to see what fruit it bears.
People, in fact, today literally fucked their kids over. Youth unemployment over 50% in Greece due to EU imposed austerity measures,Spain 45%, Italy 40%. This result is the best outcome for youth across Europe.European union must fall, red tape must be removed. Assuming your're correct that those unemployment numbers are caused by austerity, the austerity was imposed in the eurozone. The euro and EU are 2 different things.
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On June 24 2016 15:41 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 15:31 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 15:20 RvB wrote:On June 24 2016 15:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:On June 24 2016 15:15 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 13:20 amazingxkcd wrote:On June 24 2016 13:05 KwarK wrote:On June 24 2016 13:03 LegalLord wrote: Yeah, going against a major national vote goes down much more poorly than supporting any given position without that factor. A defect against this vote is really going to be quite shitty for the political career of anyone who does it. Two tier status might still be on the cards which is what most of Britain always wanted. We'll see what France and Germany do. could see Denmark and netherlands holding referendum if #Brexit wins Dutch person here, I have not heard anybody about a Dutch referendum for leaving the EU (except for our local Clown Trump), and after the disaster that was this years' referendum, I doubt it'd be easy to get going without changing some of those laws first (min 30% participation, it's very likely that rule completely fucked over the results of the Ukraine referendum) BBC says 54% of Dutch voters want to have a referendum. As to what shakes out between the UK and the EU, there is nothing keeping the UK and EU from coming to very friendly arrangements except human emotion. If the EU wants to act all butthurt and/or whoever runs the UK after Cameron wants to be a sore winner, then both sides could tit-for-tat each other and harm everyone. If they want to put their emotions aside, satisfactory arrangements for commerce between the UK and EU member states can and will be found. Our referendums are non binding though and the last one was a total disaster with 32% or something turning out. Technically speaking this UK referendum was non-binding in a similar manner. It is just that Cameron (et al.) 'made' it binding. As for the 32% turn out rate (was actually between 30-31% in the end, it was a result of the 30% treshhold that is in place to make the referendum 'official'. This made it so a lot of people didn't vote "strategically" so the referendum would be void. We ended up in a situation in which 60% voted "NO", but it is very very very very very likely the general population is in favor of the Ukraine agreement. Which is superawkward. Well i seriously doubt that an EU membership referendum would get only 30% turnout. The bigger the issue the more turnout yes? It's funny that people actually believe that big decisions like this should be left to a plebiscite. Stuff like this is way too big to be left to the people's gut feeling of the moment.
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Brexit basically took a page from classic 'murican revolution propaganda.
No taxation without representation Eff the overseas authority They took er jerbs Eff brown people FREEDOM!!! ????? PROFIT!!!
The northern part of the landmass might even remain with the old power haha
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Very interesting link, thanks!
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I love how Remain supporters blame the Brexit for the pound's fall. It's just the consequence of the Remain's campaign "UK will fall into a crisis if we leave the EU".
You reap what you sow...
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On June 24 2016 15:53 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 15:41 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 15:31 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 15:20 RvB wrote:On June 24 2016 15:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:On June 24 2016 15:15 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 13:20 amazingxkcd wrote:On June 24 2016 13:05 KwarK wrote:On June 24 2016 13:03 LegalLord wrote: Yeah, going against a major national vote goes down much more poorly than supporting any given position without that factor. A defect against this vote is really going to be quite shitty for the political career of anyone who does it. Two tier status might still be on the cards which is what most of Britain always wanted. We'll see what France and Germany do. could see Denmark and netherlands holding referendum if #Brexit wins Dutch person here, I have not heard anybody about a Dutch referendum for leaving the EU (except for our local Clown Trump), and after the disaster that was this years' referendum, I doubt it'd be easy to get going without changing some of those laws first (min 30% participation, it's very likely that rule completely fucked over the results of the Ukraine referendum) BBC says 54% of Dutch voters want to have a referendum. As to what shakes out between the UK and the EU, there is nothing keeping the UK and EU from coming to very friendly arrangements except human emotion. If the EU wants to act all butthurt and/or whoever runs the UK after Cameron wants to be a sore winner, then both sides could tit-for-tat each other and harm everyone. If they want to put their emotions aside, satisfactory arrangements for commerce between the UK and EU member states can and will be found. Our referendums are non binding though and the last one was a total disaster with 32% or something turning out. Technically speaking this UK referendum was non-binding in a similar manner. It is just that Cameron (et al.) 'made' it binding. As for the 32% turn out rate (was actually between 30-31% in the end, it was a result of the 30% treshhold that is in place to make the referendum 'official'. This made it so a lot of people didn't vote "strategically" so the referendum would be void. We ended up in a situation in which 60% voted "NO", but it is very very very very very likely the general population is in favor of the Ukraine agreement. Which is superawkward. Well i seriously doubt that an EU membership referendum would get only 30% turnout. The bigger the issue the more turnout yes? It's funny that people actually believe that big decisions like this should be left to a plebiscite. Stuff like this is way too big to be left to the people's gut feeling of the moment.
In UK oriented countries (e.g. Common Law countries), the plebs decide life and death, which is the most important decision people can make. Granted, in the US you need unanimity, but it's also only 12 people...so...It just seems like people are in favor of democracy until democracy doesn't suit them anymore. Funny that.
For all the shit the US gets, damn man, I didn't realize how much more we rely on the people to make most decisions than European countries.
Honestly, though you're going to sit there and say that it shouldn't be up to the people who should for lack of better term "rule them" (oh how I wish no one was an option (Check box for Clinton, Check box for Trump, Check box for Johnson, Check box for Abolish this Office :p) on the ballot...just once, please!)? That's what this was about.
Just curious, can the people vote to change their constitutions (one of the most important part of voting imho in the US is for all the state amendment votes that come up), or do you leave that up to whatever political Government body?
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
honestly didnt think this would happen
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On June 24 2016 15:53 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 15:41 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 15:31 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 15:20 RvB wrote:On June 24 2016 15:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:On June 24 2016 15:15 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 13:20 amazingxkcd wrote:On June 24 2016 13:05 KwarK wrote:On June 24 2016 13:03 LegalLord wrote: Yeah, going against a major national vote goes down much more poorly than supporting any given position without that factor. A defect against this vote is really going to be quite shitty for the political career of anyone who does it. Two tier status might still be on the cards which is what most of Britain always wanted. We'll see what France and Germany do. could see Denmark and netherlands holding referendum if #Brexit wins Dutch person here, I have not heard anybody about a Dutch referendum for leaving the EU (except for our local Clown Trump), and after the disaster that was this years' referendum, I doubt it'd be easy to get going without changing some of those laws first (min 30% participation, it's very likely that rule completely fucked over the results of the Ukraine referendum) BBC says 54% of Dutch voters want to have a referendum. As to what shakes out between the UK and the EU, there is nothing keeping the UK and EU from coming to very friendly arrangements except human emotion. If the EU wants to act all butthurt and/or whoever runs the UK after Cameron wants to be a sore winner, then both sides could tit-for-tat each other and harm everyone. If they want to put their emotions aside, satisfactory arrangements for commerce between the UK and EU member states can and will be found. Our referendums are non binding though and the last one was a total disaster with 32% or something turning out. Technically speaking this UK referendum was non-binding in a similar manner. It is just that Cameron (et al.) 'made' it binding. As for the 32% turn out rate (was actually between 30-31% in the end, it was a result of the 30% treshhold that is in place to make the referendum 'official'. This made it so a lot of people didn't vote "strategically" so the referendum would be void. We ended up in a situation in which 60% voted "NO", but it is very very very very very likely the general population is in favor of the Ukraine agreement. Which is superawkward. Well i seriously doubt that an EU membership referendum would get only 30% turnout. The bigger the issue the more turnout yes? It's funny that people actually believe that big decisions like this should be left to a plebiscite. Stuff like this is way too big to be left to the people's gut feeling of the moment. As noble of an idea as democracy is, this is a gargantuan flaw in the system, and whoever finds an acceptable way to solve this, becomes theGOAT politician. At least for our age
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On June 24 2016 16:04 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 15:53 maartendq wrote:On June 24 2016 15:41 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 15:31 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 15:20 RvB wrote:On June 24 2016 15:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:On June 24 2016 15:15 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 13:20 amazingxkcd wrote:On June 24 2016 13:05 KwarK wrote:On June 24 2016 13:03 LegalLord wrote: Yeah, going against a major national vote goes down much more poorly than supporting any given position without that factor. A defect against this vote is really going to be quite shitty for the political career of anyone who does it. Two tier status might still be on the cards which is what most of Britain always wanted. We'll see what France and Germany do. could see Denmark and netherlands holding referendum if #Brexit wins Dutch person here, I have not heard anybody about a Dutch referendum for leaving the EU (except for our local Clown Trump), and after the disaster that was this years' referendum, I doubt it'd be easy to get going without changing some of those laws first (min 30% participation, it's very likely that rule completely fucked over the results of the Ukraine referendum) BBC says 54% of Dutch voters want to have a referendum. As to what shakes out between the UK and the EU, there is nothing keeping the UK and EU from coming to very friendly arrangements except human emotion. If the EU wants to act all butthurt and/or whoever runs the UK after Cameron wants to be a sore winner, then both sides could tit-for-tat each other and harm everyone. If they want to put their emotions aside, satisfactory arrangements for commerce between the UK and EU member states can and will be found. Our referendums are non binding though and the last one was a total disaster with 32% or something turning out. Technically speaking this UK referendum was non-binding in a similar manner. It is just that Cameron (et al.) 'made' it binding. As for the 32% turn out rate (was actually between 30-31% in the end, it was a result of the 30% treshhold that is in place to make the referendum 'official'. This made it so a lot of people didn't vote "strategically" so the referendum would be void. We ended up in a situation in which 60% voted "NO", but it is very very very very very likely the general population is in favor of the Ukraine agreement. Which is superawkward. Well i seriously doubt that an EU membership referendum would get only 30% turnout. The bigger the issue the more turnout yes? It's funny that people actually believe that big decisions like this should be left to a plebiscite. Stuff like this is way too big to be left to the people's gut feeling of the moment. In UK oriented countries (e.g. Common Law countries), the plebs decide life and death, which is the most important decision people can make. Granted, in the US you need unanimity, but it's also only 12 people...so...It just seems like people are in favor of democracy until democracy doesn't suit them anymore. Funny that. For all the shit the US gets, damn man, I didn't realize how much more we rely on the people to make most decisions than European countries. Honestly, though you're going to sit there and say that it shouldn't be up to the people who should for lack of better term "rule them" (oh how I wish no one was on the ballot...just once, please!)? That's what this was about. Still though, Just curious, can the people vote to change their constitutions (one of the most important part of voting imho in the US is for all the state amendment votes that come up), or do you leave that up to whatever political Government body? Consitutional changes in the Netherlands require 2 subsequent governments to have either a 66% of 75% In Favor vote, IIRC. Don't quote me on that, because it might be slightly different.
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On June 24 2016 16:03 sharkie wrote: I love how Remain supporters blame the Brexit for the pound's fall. It's just the consequence of the Remain's campaign "UK will fall into a crisis if we leave the EU".
You reap what you sow... wat
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On June 24 2016 16:08 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 16:03 sharkie wrote: I love how Remain supporters blame the Brexit for the pound's fall. It's just the consequence of the Remain's campaign "UK will fall into a crisis if we leave the EU".
You reap what you sow... wat Good thing markets don't operate exclusively on exciting journalism.
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On June 24 2016 16:08 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 16:03 sharkie wrote: I love how Remain supporters blame the Brexit for the pound's fall. It's just the consequence of the Remain's campaign "UK will fall into a crisis if we leave the EU".
You reap what you sow... wat Yeah lol, like it wouldn't have happened otherwise.
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On June 24 2016 16:08 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 16:03 sharkie wrote: I love how Remain supporters blame the Brexit for the pound's fall. It's just the consequence of the Remain's campaign "UK will fall into a crisis if we leave the EU".
You reap what you sow... wat
Remain campaign has created fear in people if Brexit would win. Well Brexit won and now these scared people sell their shares
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
On June 24 2016 16:01 HolydaKing wrote:Very interesting link, thanks!
That's pretty amazing, wow
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
because there is no way that they would have been afraid without the evul press.....
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On June 24 2016 16:03 sharkie wrote: I love how Remain supporters blame the Brexit for the pound's fall. It's just the consequence of the Remain's campaign "UK will fall into a crisis if we leave the EU".
You reap what you sow...
Or it could be that nearly every financial institute who did research into the matter before the result of the vote concluded it would have a negative impact?
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On June 24 2016 16:07 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 16:04 Wegandi wrote:On June 24 2016 15:53 maartendq wrote:On June 24 2016 15:41 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On June 24 2016 15:31 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 15:20 RvB wrote:On June 24 2016 15:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:On June 24 2016 15:15 SC2Toastie wrote:On June 24 2016 13:20 amazingxkcd wrote:On June 24 2016 13:05 KwarK wrote: [quote] Two tier status might still be on the cards which is what most of Britain always wanted. We'll see what France and Germany do. could see Denmark and netherlands holding referendum if #Brexit wins Dutch person here, I have not heard anybody about a Dutch referendum for leaving the EU (except for our local Clown Trump), and after the disaster that was this years' referendum, I doubt it'd be easy to get going without changing some of those laws first (min 30% participation, it's very likely that rule completely fucked over the results of the Ukraine referendum) BBC says 54% of Dutch voters want to have a referendum. As to what shakes out between the UK and the EU, there is nothing keeping the UK and EU from coming to very friendly arrangements except human emotion. If the EU wants to act all butthurt and/or whoever runs the UK after Cameron wants to be a sore winner, then both sides could tit-for-tat each other and harm everyone. If they want to put their emotions aside, satisfactory arrangements for commerce between the UK and EU member states can and will be found. Our referendums are non binding though and the last one was a total disaster with 32% or something turning out. Technically speaking this UK referendum was non-binding in a similar manner. It is just that Cameron (et al.) 'made' it binding. As for the 32% turn out rate (was actually between 30-31% in the end, it was a result of the 30% treshhold that is in place to make the referendum 'official'. This made it so a lot of people didn't vote "strategically" so the referendum would be void. We ended up in a situation in which 60% voted "NO", but it is very very very very very likely the general population is in favor of the Ukraine agreement. Which is superawkward. Well i seriously doubt that an EU membership referendum would get only 30% turnout. The bigger the issue the more turnout yes? It's funny that people actually believe that big decisions like this should be left to a plebiscite. Stuff like this is way too big to be left to the people's gut feeling of the moment. In UK oriented countries (e.g. Common Law countries), the plebs decide life and death, which is the most important decision people can make. Granted, in the US you need unanimity, but it's also only 12 people...so...It just seems like people are in favor of democracy until democracy doesn't suit them anymore. Funny that. For all the shit the US gets, damn man, I didn't realize how much more we rely on the people to make most decisions than European countries. Honestly, though you're going to sit there and say that it shouldn't be up to the people who should for lack of better term "rule them" (oh how I wish no one was on the ballot...just once, please!)? That's what this was about. Still though, Just curious, can the people vote to change their constitutions (one of the most important part of voting imho in the US is for all the state amendment votes that come up), or do you leave that up to whatever political Government body? Consitutional changes in the Netherlands require 2 subsequent governments to have either a 66% of 75% In Favor vote, IIRC. Don't quote me on that, because it might be slightly different.
Ah. Do the Netherlands have anything like the States here? We get to vote on amendments to our Constitutions pretty much every election. Here are our amendments to our Constitution up for vote:
http://dos.elections.myflorida.com/initiatives/
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On June 24 2016 16:10 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 16:08 Toadesstern wrote:On June 24 2016 16:03 sharkie wrote: I love how Remain supporters blame the Brexit for the pound's fall. It's just the consequence of the Remain's campaign "UK will fall into a crisis if we leave the EU".
You reap what you sow... wat Remain campaign has created fear in people if Brexit would win. Well Brexit won and now these scared people sell their shares A: A bunch of journalists managed to scare the biggest financial firms, brokerages, and investors in London into behaving irrationally.
B: Finance is bunkering down in response to uncertainty concerning the UK's new relationship with the European mainland.
Apparently you think A is more likely than B. Ok then.
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