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On June 27 2013 02:10 PCloadletter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:06 Jormundr wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. This is a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, you shouldn't apply pressure to a wounded man's artery because he's still going to be bleeding from other cuts on his body. That wasn't my reasoning at all.
Yes, it was. You said that you cannot advertise this as equal rights because it does not incorporate all of the subsets of equal rights which need addressing. You then came up with a shitty semantic argument on equal rights that I don't care to address because it requires anyone who uses the term 'equal rights' to establish schools of thought which are common knowledge in this day and age.
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On June 27 2013 02:06 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. This is a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, you shouldn't apply pressure to a wounded man's artery because he's still going to be bleeding from other cuts on his body.
I don't know how you came to that analogy at all. That is literally nothing like what he was talking about. He pretty much just reworded what I said earlier about how we shouldn't just yell "equality" as that is what invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia, and instead provide actual reasoning with basis for why homosexuals deserve equal rights, as doing so invalidates the slippery slope argument completely.
On June 27 2013 02:15 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. That's a stupid argument. Of course other group are also discriminated in our society (like myself, as a trans person). Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. If we have that reasoning we would still have slave.
He's not arguing that at all either, nowhere in his post does he say homosexuals shouldn't have equal rights. He explicitly stated "There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage". He's saying to use those arguments to support gay marriage, not just the word "equality" because it's a pointless buzzword that only invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia that we don't want to give equal rights to.
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On June 27 2013 02:10 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 01:52 Jormundr wrote:On June 27 2013 01:44 codonbyte wrote:On June 26 2013 18:46 Keniji wrote:On June 26 2013 18:10 Gen.Rolly wrote:On June 26 2013 17:50 Ahelvin wrote:On June 26 2013 17:43 Gen.Rolly wrote:On June 26 2013 16:48 salle wrote:On June 26 2013 11:28 Gen.Rolly wrote:On June 26 2013 07:25 salle wrote:
[quote]
“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.”
― Stephen Fry This is a great quote. To be more specific, it appears TL admins are taking advantage of community-generated e-sports content on TL.net to promote a particular political ideology. Since marriage is a political institution, where taxpayer-supported treatment to married couples and their dependents are codified into laws ratified by a democratic government, taking a stance on whether one feels those treatments should extend to homosexual couples is necessarily a political stance. Some may find the TL admins' use of their forum to promote their particular political viewpoint unnecessary, if not unfair because not everyone who contributes to the great community that is TL shares their views. I don't believe marriage is ever mentioned. it's simply a rainbow maned horse logo with the hover text "TL loves ESPORTS, equally." This is simply you extrapolating. But to reply to your post if "each individual and group should be treated equally under law" is a bad political stance then you have some very weird concepts of law and equality. Actually, it does imply the gay marriage debate. Homosexuals, in fact, are treated equally under the law. Marriage, however, is a separate matter. Married couples receive special treatment under the law. As a single person, whether gay or straight, one is not entitled to this treatment. So to speak of equality necessarily implies marriage equality. To recap my separate posts thus far, the U.S. is a democratic society, and the special treatment given to married couples by our government is given by the people, like all of our laws. Therefore, we the people decide who falls within that privileged group. Again, I feel the TL admins are taking advantage of the community-generated e-sports content on TL.net to promote a particular political ideology. Since marriage is a political institution, where taxpayer-supported treatment to married couples and their dependents are codified into laws ratified by a democratic government, taking a stance on whether one feels those treatments should extend to homosexual couples is necessarily a political stance. Some may find the TL admins' use of their forum to promote their particular political viewpoint unnecessary, if not unfair because not everyone who contributes to TL shares their views. Then the people that are contributing to TL and find TL taking a stance on the issue unfair can go to a different community I guess? There are plenty of other ways people can contribute to Esports outside TL (running a YouTube channel for instance). On June 26 2013 17:43 Gen.Rolly wrote:On June 26 2013 16:48 salle wrote:On June 26 2013 11:28 Gen.Rolly wrote:On June 26 2013 07:25 salle wrote:
[quote]
“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.”
― Stephen Fry This is a great quote. To be more specific, it appears TL admins are taking advantage of community-generated e-sports content on TL.net to promote a particular political ideology. Since marriage is a political institution, where taxpayer-supported treatment to married couples and their dependents are codified into laws ratified by a democratic government, taking a stance on whether one feels those treatments should extend to homosexual couples is necessarily a political stance. Some may find the TL admins' use of their forum to promote their particular political viewpoint unnecessary, if not unfair because not everyone who contributes to the great community that is TL shares their views. I don't believe marriage is ever mentioned. it's simply a rainbow maned horse logo with the hover text "TL loves ESPORTS, equally." This is simply you extrapolating. But to reply to your post if "each individual and group should be treated equally under law" is a bad political stance then you have some very weird concepts of law and equality. Actually, it does imply the gay marriage debate. Homosexuals, in fact, are treated equally under the law. Marriage, however, is a separate matter. Married couples receive special treatment under the law. As a single person, whether gay or straight, one is not entitled to this treatment. So to speak of equality necessarily implies marriage equality. From a pure legal standpoint, this seems wrong. Straight people have the right to marry the person they love, and have this commitment recognized by the state. Gay people do not have this right. What am I missing? Legally speaking, straight people are afforded privileges by the democratic state if and when they marry. These are the benefits gay couples also seek. Were the debate simply about being with the person you love and having that arrangement labeled "marriage", there would be little debate, since gay people are free to be with whomever they will, even if the arrangement does not have a special name. Legal treatments given to marriage are what is at stake here, and since they are granted by a democratic government, the people have a say about who receives them and who does not. you don't really believe that, do you? In fact, in at least some countries there is some sort of legal partnership for gay couples with similiar benefits to marriage, but conservative parties/people are fighting against it being called "marriage". If we want to have true equality for the LGBT community, then we need to have the SAME partnership for gay couples that we have for straight couples. Separate but equal didn't work in the past, and I will bet you that it won't work in the future. If we create "civil unions" or whatever instead of just legalizing gay marriage, there will always be rights that gay people do not enjoy. Here in the US in states where there are civil unions but not gay marriage, gay couples miss out on rights that straight couples get. He raises a good point. We can just rename everything. Marriages accompanied by a religious ceremony can be called 'Religious Unions'. Marriage contracts submitted to the state can be called 'Legitimate Marriages'. That way, people can learn the goddamn difference. No need to rename anything. Marriage predate modern religion anyway and is present in every culture in some form. You just have different kind of marriage; religious (christian, muslim, etc) marriage and civil marriage. They should be the same thing, except with different belief and ceremony.
Agreed. IMO renaming would actually be detrimental as it would create a "separate but [un]equal" situation for gay couples. We tried having "separate but equal" facilities for black people during the 50s and 60s, and it failed miserably. I have no reason to believe that having a "separate but equal" term for gay-marriage would be any more successful.
To achieve LGBT equality, we need to legalize gay marriage, it needs to be called marriage, and everyone who has a problem with that needs to 
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On June 27 2013 02:10 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 01:52 Jormundr wrote:On June 27 2013 01:44 codonbyte wrote:On June 26 2013 18:46 Keniji wrote:On June 26 2013 18:10 Gen.Rolly wrote:On June 26 2013 17:50 Ahelvin wrote:On June 26 2013 17:43 Gen.Rolly wrote:On June 26 2013 16:48 salle wrote:On June 26 2013 11:28 Gen.Rolly wrote:On June 26 2013 07:25 salle wrote:
[quote]
“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.”
― Stephen Fry This is a great quote. To be more specific, it appears TL admins are taking advantage of community-generated e-sports content on TL.net to promote a particular political ideology. Since marriage is a political institution, where taxpayer-supported treatment to married couples and their dependents are codified into laws ratified by a democratic government, taking a stance on whether one feels those treatments should extend to homosexual couples is necessarily a political stance. Some may find the TL admins' use of their forum to promote their particular political viewpoint unnecessary, if not unfair because not everyone who contributes to the great community that is TL shares their views. I don't believe marriage is ever mentioned. it's simply a rainbow maned horse logo with the hover text "TL loves ESPORTS, equally." This is simply you extrapolating. But to reply to your post if "each individual and group should be treated equally under law" is a bad political stance then you have some very weird concepts of law and equality. Actually, it does imply the gay marriage debate. Homosexuals, in fact, are treated equally under the law. Marriage, however, is a separate matter. Married couples receive special treatment under the law. As a single person, whether gay or straight, one is not entitled to this treatment. So to speak of equality necessarily implies marriage equality. To recap my separate posts thus far, the U.S. is a democratic society, and the special treatment given to married couples by our government is given by the people, like all of our laws. Therefore, we the people decide who falls within that privileged group. Again, I feel the TL admins are taking advantage of the community-generated e-sports content on TL.net to promote a particular political ideology. Since marriage is a political institution, where taxpayer-supported treatment to married couples and their dependents are codified into laws ratified by a democratic government, taking a stance on whether one feels those treatments should extend to homosexual couples is necessarily a political stance. Some may find the TL admins' use of their forum to promote their particular political viewpoint unnecessary, if not unfair because not everyone who contributes to TL shares their views. Then the people that are contributing to TL and find TL taking a stance on the issue unfair can go to a different community I guess? There are plenty of other ways people can contribute to Esports outside TL (running a YouTube channel for instance). On June 26 2013 17:43 Gen.Rolly wrote:On June 26 2013 16:48 salle wrote:On June 26 2013 11:28 Gen.Rolly wrote:On June 26 2013 07:25 salle wrote:
[quote]
“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.”
― Stephen Fry This is a great quote. To be more specific, it appears TL admins are taking advantage of community-generated e-sports content on TL.net to promote a particular political ideology. Since marriage is a political institution, where taxpayer-supported treatment to married couples and their dependents are codified into laws ratified by a democratic government, taking a stance on whether one feels those treatments should extend to homosexual couples is necessarily a political stance. Some may find the TL admins' use of their forum to promote their particular political viewpoint unnecessary, if not unfair because not everyone who contributes to the great community that is TL shares their views. I don't believe marriage is ever mentioned. it's simply a rainbow maned horse logo with the hover text "TL loves ESPORTS, equally." This is simply you extrapolating. But to reply to your post if "each individual and group should be treated equally under law" is a bad political stance then you have some very weird concepts of law and equality. Actually, it does imply the gay marriage debate. Homosexuals, in fact, are treated equally under the law. Marriage, however, is a separate matter. Married couples receive special treatment under the law. As a single person, whether gay or straight, one is not entitled to this treatment. So to speak of equality necessarily implies marriage equality. From a pure legal standpoint, this seems wrong. Straight people have the right to marry the person they love, and have this commitment recognized by the state. Gay people do not have this right. What am I missing? Legally speaking, straight people are afforded privileges by the democratic state if and when they marry. These are the benefits gay couples also seek. Were the debate simply about being with the person you love and having that arrangement labeled "marriage", there would be little debate, since gay people are free to be with whomever they will, even if the arrangement does not have a special name. Legal treatments given to marriage are what is at stake here, and since they are granted by a democratic government, the people have a say about who receives them and who does not. you don't really believe that, do you? In fact, in at least some countries there is some sort of legal partnership for gay couples with similiar benefits to marriage, but conservative parties/people are fighting against it being called "marriage". If we want to have true equality for the LGBT community, then we need to have the SAME partnership for gay couples that we have for straight couples. Separate but equal didn't work in the past, and I will bet you that it won't work in the future. If we create "civil unions" or whatever instead of just legalizing gay marriage, there will always be rights that gay people do not enjoy. Here in the US in states where there are civil unions but not gay marriage, gay couples miss out on rights that straight couples get. He raises a good point. We can just rename everything. Marriages accompanied by a religious ceremony can be called 'Religious Unions'. Marriage contracts submitted to the state can be called 'Legitimate Marriages'. That way, people can learn the goddamn difference. No need to rename anything. Marriage predate modern religion anyway and is present in every culture in some form. You just have different kind of marriage; religious (christian, muslim, etc) marriage and civil marriage. They should be the same thing, except with different belief and ceremony.
I disagree. Civil marriage is the only one that matters. The reason the distinction is important is because it teaches the fact that a religious marriage ceremony doesn't mean jack shit.
See this?
http://www.news-record.com/news/article_b245d336-cbe9-11e2-8045-0019bb30f31a.html
My hometown, my synagogue. They're not married. Know why? Because they can't legally file a marriage contract. Hence why I would call it a Religious Union.
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On June 27 2013 02:01 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 01:51 D10 wrote:On June 27 2013 01:36 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 01:34 PassiveAce wrote:On June 27 2013 01:26 D10 wrote:
back in my day you didnt need equal rights to be happy. im not sure what I find so funny about this but it cracks me up XD Those slaves looked like they were having so much fun singing and dancing in their fields. Because im obviously talking about slavery. They're both oppression. Do you have to be super-duper oppressed before you care then?
No, I simply disagree on what some people consider opression.
Imo being unable to get the word marriage attached to your civil union is as far from getting opressed as you can.
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On June 27 2013 02:27 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:01 marvellosity wrote:On June 27 2013 01:51 D10 wrote:On June 27 2013 01:36 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 01:34 PassiveAce wrote:On June 27 2013 01:26 D10 wrote:
back in my day you didnt need equal rights to be happy. im not sure what I find so funny about this but it cracks me up XD Those slaves looked like they were having so much fun singing and dancing in their fields. Because im obviously talking about slavery. They're both oppression. Do you have to be super-duper oppressed before you care then? No, I simply disagree on what some people consider opression. Imo being unable to get the word marriage attached to your civil union is as far from getting opressed as you can.
I feel oppressed because you're allowed to post in this thread while clearly not having read a damn thing in it.
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Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated.
I never said that. What I said is that "equal rights" is not an actual argument by itself, despite the apparent hundreds of people who are convinced it is.
On June 27 2013 02:24 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:06 Jormundr wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. This is a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, you shouldn't apply pressure to a wounded man's artery because he's still going to be bleeding from other cuts on his body. I don't know how you came to that analogy at all. That is literally nothing like what he was talking about. He pretty much just reworded what I said earlier about how we shouldn't just yell "equality" as that is what invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia, and instead provide actual reasoning with basis for why homosexuals deserve equal rights, as doing so invalidates the slippery slope argument completely. Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:15 Shodaa wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. That's a stupid argument. Of course other group are also discriminated in our society (like myself, as a trans person). Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. If we have that reasoning we would still have slave. He's not arguing that at all either, nowhere in his post does he say homosexuals shouldn't have equal rights. He explicitly stated "There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage". He's saying to use those arguments to support gay marriage, not just the word "equality" because it's a pointless buzzword that only invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia that we don't want to give equal rights to.
This guy gets it, thank you.
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On June 27 2013 02:27 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:01 marvellosity wrote:On June 27 2013 01:51 D10 wrote:On June 27 2013 01:36 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 01:34 PassiveAce wrote:On June 27 2013 01:26 D10 wrote:
back in my day you didnt need equal rights to be happy. im not sure what I find so funny about this but it cracks me up XD Those slaves looked like they were having so much fun singing and dancing in their fields. Because im obviously talking about slavery. They're both oppression. Do you have to be super-duper oppressed before you care then? No, I simply disagree on what some people consider opression. Imo being unable to get the word marriage attached to your civil union is as far from getting opressed as you can.
Civil Unions do not convey the same rights as marriage by a long shot. Maybe you should have a better understanding of the issue before you voice your opinion on it?
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On June 27 2013 02:27 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:01 marvellosity wrote:On June 27 2013 01:51 D10 wrote:On June 27 2013 01:36 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 01:34 PassiveAce wrote:On June 27 2013 01:26 D10 wrote:
back in my day you didnt need equal rights to be happy. im not sure what I find so funny about this but it cracks me up XD Those slaves looked like they were having so much fun singing and dancing in their fields. Because im obviously talking about slavery. They're both oppression. Do you have to be super-duper oppressed before you care then? No, I simply disagree on what some people consider opression. Imo being unable to get the word marriage attached to your civil union is as far from getting opressed as you can.
Yeah that would be really petty. Unfortunately in most states civil unions are at best a lesser imitation of marriage (and are not always afforded to gay couples in the first place).
So yeah, what's with these homers crying about being separate and inequal? Sounds real fucking petty to me. Or maybe I'm just talking out of my uninformed ass.
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On June 27 2013 02:31 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:27 D10 wrote:On June 27 2013 02:01 marvellosity wrote:On June 27 2013 01:51 D10 wrote:On June 27 2013 01:36 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 01:34 PassiveAce wrote:On June 27 2013 01:26 D10 wrote:
back in my day you didnt need equal rights to be happy. im not sure what I find so funny about this but it cracks me up XD Those slaves looked like they were having so much fun singing and dancing in their fields. Because im obviously talking about slavery. They're both oppression. Do you have to be super-duper oppressed before you care then? No, I simply disagree on what some people consider opression. Imo being unable to get the word marriage attached to your civil union is as far from getting opressed as you can. Yeah that would be really petty. Unfortunately in most states civil unions are at best a lesser imitation of marriage (and are not always afforded to gay couples in the first place). So yeah, what's with these homers crying about being separate and inequal? Sounds real fucking petty to me. Or maybe I'm just talking out of my uninformed ass.
Thats too bad, here they do.
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On June 27 2013 02:29 PCloadletter wrote:Show nested quote +Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. I never said that. What I said is that "equal rights" is not an actual argument by itself, despite the apparent hundreds of people who are convinced it is. Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:24 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 02:06 Jormundr wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. This is a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, you shouldn't apply pressure to a wounded man's artery because he's still going to be bleeding from other cuts on his body. I don't know how you came to that analogy at all. That is literally nothing like what he was talking about. He pretty much just reworded what I said earlier about how we shouldn't just yell "equality" as that is what invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia, and instead provide actual reasoning with basis for why homosexuals deserve equal rights, as doing so invalidates the slippery slope argument completely. On June 27 2013 02:15 Shodaa wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. That's a stupid argument. Of course other group are also discriminated in our society (like myself, as a trans person). Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. If we have that reasoning we would still have slave. He's not arguing that at all either, nowhere in his post does he say homosexuals shouldn't have equal rights. He explicitly stated "There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage". He's saying to use those arguments to support gay marriage, not just the word "equality" because it's a pointless buzzword that only invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia that we don't want to give equal rights to. This guy gets it, thank you.
Wait, why are we humoring idiots who still can't get it through their head that homosexuality isn't comparable to pedophilia? I think we should keep chanting "equality" just so we can weed out the people who aren't intelligent or informed enough to even participate in the discussion.
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On June 27 2013 01:57 PassiveAce wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly with jormundr. It boggles the mind how people confuse a legal contract with the state and a religious ceremony. they are not at all the same thing.
You know, many people (at least in my country) are married legally (state contract), but did not undergo that whole church thing. I do not know anybody who married in church but not legally, and why is that (there might or might not be this as obligation for church marriage)? It is because monetary benefits for married couples exist.
I feel like this is the right gay people fight for, and they are right, if they want equal economic opportunities.
However this system is flawed: The benefits exist because it is in the states interest to promote family environments, as they show (historically) that they are where children are born. (I am not going to argue wether children grow up better in intact families or single-parent households)
So actually the state is promoting raising children. If a gay couple wants to adopt a child (or n children) give them their "rights". Strip kidless couples off their benefits. Equality, you got it. Don't think you gonna win an election with this though.
As for religious ceremonies (in a secular state - is USA a secular state?) every religion may in/exclude whoever at will.
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Pretends to be liberal, spends 85 pages whining about a rainbow horse.
Stay classy TL 
User was warned for this post
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On June 27 2013 02:33 Voyage wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 01:57 PassiveAce wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly with jormundr. It boggles the mind how people confuse a legal contract with the state and a religious ceremony. they are not at all the same thing. You know, many people (at least in my country) are married legally (state contract), but did not undergo that whole church thing. I do not know anybody who married in church but not legally, and why is that (there might or might not be this as obligation for church marriage)? It is because monetary benefits for married couples exist. I feel like this is the right gay people fight for, and they are right, if they want equal economic opportunities. However this system is flawed: The benefits exist because it is in the states interest to promote family environments, as they show (historically) that they are where children are born. (I am not going to argue wether children grow up better in intact families or single-parent households) So actually the state is promoting raising children. If a gay couple wants to adopt a child (or n children) give them their "rights". Strip kidless couples off their benefits. Equality, you got it. Don't think you gonna win an election with this though. As for religious ceremonies (in a secular state - is USA a secular state?) every religion may in/exclude whoever at will.
Why do gay couples getting equal economic opportunities lead to stripping kidless couples of their benefits? I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here. I don't see why marriage can't just be between two consenting adults regardless of gender, or how that would change anything.
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On June 27 2013 02:32 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:29 PCloadletter wrote:Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. I never said that. What I said is that "equal rights" is not an actual argument by itself, despite the apparent hundreds of people who are convinced it is. On June 27 2013 02:24 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 02:06 Jormundr wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. This is a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, you shouldn't apply pressure to a wounded man's artery because he's still going to be bleeding from other cuts on his body. I don't know how you came to that analogy at all. That is literally nothing like what he was talking about. He pretty much just reworded what I said earlier about how we shouldn't just yell "equality" as that is what invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia, and instead provide actual reasoning with basis for why homosexuals deserve equal rights, as doing so invalidates the slippery slope argument completely. On June 27 2013 02:15 Shodaa wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. That's a stupid argument. Of course other group are also discriminated in our society (like myself, as a trans person). Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. If we have that reasoning we would still have slave. He's not arguing that at all either, nowhere in his post does he say homosexuals shouldn't have equal rights. He explicitly stated "There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage". He's saying to use those arguments to support gay marriage, not just the word "equality" because it's a pointless buzzword that only invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia that we don't want to give equal rights to. This guy gets it, thank you. Wait, why are we humoring idiots who still can't get it through their head that homosexuality isn't comparable to pedophilia? I think we should keep chanting "equality" just so we can weed out the people who aren't intelligent or informed enough to even participate in the discussion.
Because those idiots use their uninformed opinions to vote on things?
No one here is comparing paedophilia to homosexuality, the problem is that the "argument" of equality for all opens up pathways for people to connect the two, and is inherently weaker as a debating tool than actual facts and reasons, which the LGBT movement has in spades.
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On June 27 2013 02:32 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:29 PCloadletter wrote:Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. I never said that. What I said is that "equal rights" is not an actual argument by itself, despite the apparent hundreds of people who are convinced it is. On June 27 2013 02:24 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 02:06 Jormundr wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. This is a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, you shouldn't apply pressure to a wounded man's artery because he's still going to be bleeding from other cuts on his body. I don't know how you came to that analogy at all. That is literally nothing like what he was talking about. He pretty much just reworded what I said earlier about how we shouldn't just yell "equality" as that is what invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia, and instead provide actual reasoning with basis for why homosexuals deserve equal rights, as doing so invalidates the slippery slope argument completely. On June 27 2013 02:15 Shodaa wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. That's a stupid argument. Of course other group are also discriminated in our society (like myself, as a trans person). Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. If we have that reasoning we would still have slave. He's not arguing that at all either, nowhere in his post does he say homosexuals shouldn't have equal rights. He explicitly stated "There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage". He's saying to use those arguments to support gay marriage, not just the word "equality" because it's a pointless buzzword that only invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia that we don't want to give equal rights to. This guy gets it, thank you. Wait, why are we humoring idiots who still can't get it through their head that homosexuality isn't comparable to pedophilia? I think we should keep chanting "equality" just so we can weed out the people who aren't intelligent or informed enough to even participate in the discussion.
Don't argue with semantics lad, he is on his own mission to tell us that equal right does not mean equal for everyone. We don't get felons vote or people sexual assault children and that means those people are not "equal".
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On June 27 2013 02:35 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:32 Klondikebar wrote:On June 27 2013 02:29 PCloadletter wrote:Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. I never said that. What I said is that "equal rights" is not an actual argument by itself, despite the apparent hundreds of people who are convinced it is. On June 27 2013 02:24 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 02:06 Jormundr wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. This is a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, you shouldn't apply pressure to a wounded man's artery because he's still going to be bleeding from other cuts on his body. I don't know how you came to that analogy at all. That is literally nothing like what he was talking about. He pretty much just reworded what I said earlier about how we shouldn't just yell "equality" as that is what invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia, and instead provide actual reasoning with basis for why homosexuals deserve equal rights, as doing so invalidates the slippery slope argument completely. On June 27 2013 02:15 Shodaa wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. That's a stupid argument. Of course other group are also discriminated in our society (like myself, as a trans person). Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. If we have that reasoning we would still have slave. He's not arguing that at all either, nowhere in his post does he say homosexuals shouldn't have equal rights. He explicitly stated "There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage". He's saying to use those arguments to support gay marriage, not just the word "equality" because it's a pointless buzzword that only invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia that we don't want to give equal rights to. This guy gets it, thank you. Wait, why are we humoring idiots who still can't get it through their head that homosexuality isn't comparable to pedophilia? I think we should keep chanting "equality" just so we can weed out the people who aren't intelligent or informed enough to even participate in the discussion. Because those idiots use their uninformed opinions to vote on things? No one here is comparing paedophilia to homosexuality, the problem is that the "argument" of equality for all opens up pathways for people to connect the two, and is inherently weaker as a debating tool than actual facts and reasons, which the LGBT movement has in spades.
We're not talking about votes or elections. We're talking about a thread on a gaming forum.
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On June 27 2013 02:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:Pretends to be liberal, spends 85 pages whining about a rainbow horse. Stay classy TL
... have you actually read the thread? It's like 1% people disagreeing with it, 90% people collectively beating those people, and 9% debating the semantics of the word equality.
On June 27 2013 02:36 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:35 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 02:32 Klondikebar wrote:On June 27 2013 02:29 PCloadletter wrote:Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. I never said that. What I said is that "equal rights" is not an actual argument by itself, despite the apparent hundreds of people who are convinced it is. On June 27 2013 02:24 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 02:06 Jormundr wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. This is a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, you shouldn't apply pressure to a wounded man's artery because he's still going to be bleeding from other cuts on his body. I don't know how you came to that analogy at all. That is literally nothing like what he was talking about. He pretty much just reworded what I said earlier about how we shouldn't just yell "equality" as that is what invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia, and instead provide actual reasoning with basis for why homosexuals deserve equal rights, as doing so invalidates the slippery slope argument completely. On June 27 2013 02:15 Shodaa wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. That's a stupid argument. Of course other group are also discriminated in our society (like myself, as a trans person). Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. If we have that reasoning we would still have slave. He's not arguing that at all either, nowhere in his post does he say homosexuals shouldn't have equal rights. He explicitly stated "There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage". He's saying to use those arguments to support gay marriage, not just the word "equality" because it's a pointless buzzword that only invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia that we don't want to give equal rights to. This guy gets it, thank you. Wait, why are we humoring idiots who still can't get it through their head that homosexuality isn't comparable to pedophilia? I think we should keep chanting "equality" just so we can weed out the people who aren't intelligent or informed enough to even participate in the discussion. Because those idiots use their uninformed opinions to vote on things? No one here is comparing paedophilia to homosexuality, the problem is that the "argument" of equality for all opens up pathways for people to connect the two, and is inherently weaker as a debating tool than actual facts and reasons, which the LGBT movement has in spades. We're not talking about votes or elections. We're talking about a thread on a gaming forum.
And I'm talking about the movement as a whole.
On June 27 2013 02:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:32 Klondikebar wrote:On June 27 2013 02:29 PCloadletter wrote:Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. I never said that. What I said is that "equal rights" is not an actual argument by itself, despite the apparent hundreds of people who are convinced it is. On June 27 2013 02:24 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 02:06 Jormundr wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. This is a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, you shouldn't apply pressure to a wounded man's artery because he's still going to be bleeding from other cuts on his body. I don't know how you came to that analogy at all. That is literally nothing like what he was talking about. He pretty much just reworded what I said earlier about how we shouldn't just yell "equality" as that is what invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia, and instead provide actual reasoning with basis for why homosexuals deserve equal rights, as doing so invalidates the slippery slope argument completely. On June 27 2013 02:15 Shodaa wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. That's a stupid argument. Of course other group are also discriminated in our society (like myself, as a trans person). Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. If we have that reasoning we would still have slave. He's not arguing that at all either, nowhere in his post does he say homosexuals shouldn't have equal rights. He explicitly stated "There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage". He's saying to use those arguments to support gay marriage, not just the word "equality" because it's a pointless buzzword that only invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia that we don't want to give equal rights to. This guy gets it, thank you. Wait, why are we humoring idiots who still can't get it through their head that homosexuality isn't comparable to pedophilia? I think we should keep chanting "equality" just so we can weed out the people who aren't intelligent or informed enough to even participate in the discussion. Don't argue with semantics lad, he is on his own mission to tell us that equal right does not mean equal for everyone. We don't get felons vote or people sexual assault children and that means those people are not "equal".
I have no clue what you're trying to say here, but if it has anything to do with semantics then I feel I have to tell you that the meaning of words if fairly important in a debate.
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On June 27 2013 02:27 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:01 marvellosity wrote:On June 27 2013 01:51 D10 wrote:On June 27 2013 01:36 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 01:34 PassiveAce wrote:On June 27 2013 01:26 D10 wrote:
back in my day you didnt need equal rights to be happy. im not sure what I find so funny about this but it cracks me up XD Those slaves looked like they were having so much fun singing and dancing in their fields. Because im obviously talking about slavery. They're both oppression. Do you have to be super-duper oppressed before you care then? No, I simply disagree on what some people consider opression. Imo being unable to get the word marriage attached to your civil union is as far from getting opressed as you can.
I disagree. In the USA, being married brings with it over 1000 protections and benefits from the federal government (source). Civil unions bring none of those protections or benefits. Giving that many protections and benefits to straight couples, while not doing so for gay couples, IS a form of oppression. Granted, it's not anywhere close to as bad as, say, slavery, but it's still oppression.
As I've said before, "separate but equal" doesn't work. If we have one word for a legal union between a straight couple and another word for a legal union between a gay couple, then it is possible for a lawmaker to make laws that apply to one but not the other. And since straight people are the majority, guess who's going to get the short end of the stick?
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On June 27 2013 02:36 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:35 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 02:32 Klondikebar wrote:On June 27 2013 02:29 PCloadletter wrote:Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. I never said that. What I said is that "equal rights" is not an actual argument by itself, despite the apparent hundreds of people who are convinced it is. On June 27 2013 02:24 RockIronrod wrote:On June 27 2013 02:06 Jormundr wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. This is a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, you shouldn't apply pressure to a wounded man's artery because he's still going to be bleeding from other cuts on his body. I don't know how you came to that analogy at all. That is literally nothing like what he was talking about. He pretty much just reworded what I said earlier about how we shouldn't just yell "equality" as that is what invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia, and instead provide actual reasoning with basis for why homosexuals deserve equal rights, as doing so invalidates the slippery slope argument completely. On June 27 2013 02:15 Shodaa wrote:On June 27 2013 01:57 PCloadletter wrote:On June 26 2013 18:47 AlgeriaT wrote:On June 26 2013 11:50 LarJarsE wrote:
Quite frankly, if you are against equality & equal rights, you are an asshole. LOL, so good. They should just make this the website title right now. I mean, can it be put any more simply than that? Yep, and that makes everyone on this site an asshole. We all oppose equal rights for all. There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage. Just saying the words "equal rights" over and over is not one of them. It's mindless, since it completely ignores the dozens of groups who we don't afford equal rights now, which no one has a problem with. It's also circular logic, since calling it rights to begin with already carries the implication that it should be accepted. I can hear people now thinking up justifications for why children shouldn't be allowed to vote, buy alcohol, join the military. That's perfectly fine if you can justify it, but don't go around chanting "equal rights" as if there are no exceptions or qualifications to be made. It's not simple, it's simplistic. That's a stupid argument. Of course other group are also discriminated in our society (like myself, as a trans person). Doesn't mean we shouldn't give homosexual equal rights to heterosexual just because other people are also being discriminated. If we have that reasoning we would still have slave. He's not arguing that at all either, nowhere in his post does he say homosexuals shouldn't have equal rights. He explicitly stated "There are lots of good arguments in favor of gay marriage". He's saying to use those arguments to support gay marriage, not just the word "equality" because it's a pointless buzzword that only invites comparisons to things like paedophilia and zoophilia that we don't want to give equal rights to. This guy gets it, thank you. Wait, why are we humoring idiots who still can't get it through their head that homosexuality isn't comparable to pedophilia? I think we should keep chanting "equality" just so we can weed out the people who aren't intelligent or informed enough to even participate in the discussion. Because those idiots use their uninformed opinions to vote on things? No one here is comparing paedophilia to homosexuality, the problem is that the "argument" of equality for all opens up pathways for people to connect the two, and is inherently weaker as a debating tool than actual facts and reasons, which the LGBT movement has in spades. We're not talking about votes or elections. We're talking about a thread on a gaming forum.
I don't think the fact that TL is a gaming forum gives us an excuse not to have a high-level discourse. In fact, some of the discussions on serious issues I've had here on TL have been substantially better than on other forums ostensibly dedicated to that kind of discussion. Just because TL is a forum initially for Brood War doesn't mean we don't have really good conversations about other things.
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EPT
