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On May 16 2013 22:12 Marimokkori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 15:39 Phael wrote:
Try searching ebay for Chinese pens:
"Jinhao fountain pen"
"Hero fountain pen"
"Kaigelu fountain pen"
"Duke fountain pen"
etc.
From reading many reviews, they seem to be 80-110% the performance of their counterparts (lets be honest, a lot of them are copycats of popular western pens), at 1-10% of the price - or less (See: Montblanc 149 vs Jinhao 159).
Except these pens have the worst quality control of all time. I've heard of people getting a pen that literally falls apart when they take it out of the box. It is possible to get them for 99cents + shipping, but it's probably worth it to just get a Metropolitan instead of taking the risk of getting a truly horrible pen.
Get 10 Chinese hunks of trash and one of them is going to work. And if not, just frankenstein it up and take the working parts.
For luxury pens, it can obviously be worth it if you want a cheap but nice looking, pseudo-luxurious pen that WRITES which is the point of a pen. That's why I'm not against buying Chinese counterfeit products. But you'll typically find some flaws to the product... fake gold nib, cheap gold plating that flakes off, cheap uneven laser engravings, cheaper overall materials (paint that'll fall apart after a few months, etc.).
They're not made to last, they're made so you'll hopefully be happy with them for a little bit. But if you want something for the long run, counterfeit products are rarely it. That said, I'm sure some of them are pretty close to the original, durable and functional... I wouldn't take the gamble unless it's really cheap, personally.
I myself ordered 2 cheap "Romus" piston fountain pens for $6 shipped each straight from India just for the hell of it. I don't expect them to last, but sometimes they can be surprising for the short run. Edit: I know those are not counterfeit but they're cheap junk regardless 
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On May 16 2013 23:43 Djzapz wrote:
Get 10 Chinese hunks of trash and one of them is going to work. And if not, just frankenstein it up and take the working parts.
Only thing is, most people who bother to use fountain pens do so for the experience as much as the functionality. I think that approach gives up the experience of using a high quality pen.
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On May 17 2013 00:02 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 23:43 Djzapz wrote:
Get 10 Chinese hunks of trash and one of them is going to work. And if not, just frankenstein it up and take the working parts. Only thing is, most people who bother to use fountain pens do so for the experience as much as the functionality. I think that approach gives up the experience of using a high quality pen.
Frankly so far though, my Pilot Metropolitan is the most disappointing to the point that it's essentially unusable, so even the "safe" models can disappoint. I've tried 3 different types of ink and the freaking thing just won't flow well. And I've been cleaning it out thoroughly! It doesn't just skip, it stops writing altogether and I have to fight with to get ink in the nib. I find myself having to push on it to write (not very hard but more than I usually would), and even that is inconsistent.
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On May 17 2013 00:20 Djzapz wrote:
Frankly so far though, my Pilot Metropolitan is the most disappointing to the point that it's essentially unusable, so even the "safe" models can disappoint. I've tried 3 different types of ink and the freaking thing just won't flow well. And I've been cleaning it out thoroughly! It doesn't just skip, it stops writing altogether and I have to fight with to get ink in the nib. I find myself having to push on it to write (not very hard but more than I usually would), and even that is inconsistent.
I've heard good things about the Lamy Safari, which at $28 is about twice the price of the Pilot Metropolitan, but still not too expensive. Might be worth a shot. Worst complaint I've seen is that it's a little scratchy with a fine point.
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On May 17 2013 01:17 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 00:20 Djzapz wrote:
Frankly so far though, my Pilot Metropolitan is the most disappointing to the point that it's essentially unusable, so even the "safe" models can disappoint. I've tried 3 different types of ink and the freaking thing just won't flow well. And I've been cleaning it out thoroughly! It doesn't just skip, it stops writing altogether and I have to fight with to get ink in the nib. I find myself having to push on it to write (not very hard but more than I usually would), and even that is inconsistent. I've heard good things about the Lamy Safari, which at $28 is about twice the price of the Pilot Metropolitan, but still not too expensive. Might be worth a shot. Worst complaint I've seen is that it's a little scratchy with a fine point.
Well right now I have a Parker Sonnet and a Nemosine Singularity, both of which have been extremely dependable so far. I'd like a Lamy Safari because I've heard good things, but I don't like how it looks, and it's a bit too large.
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On May 17 2013 01:17 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 00:20 Djzapz wrote:
Frankly so far though, my Pilot Metropolitan is the most disappointing to the point that it's essentially unusable, so even the "safe" models can disappoint. I've tried 3 different types of ink and the freaking thing just won't flow well. And I've been cleaning it out thoroughly! It doesn't just skip, it stops writing altogether and I have to fight with to get ink in the nib. I find myself having to push on it to write (not very hard but more than I usually would), and even that is inconsistent. I've heard good things about the Lamy Safari, which at $28 is about twice the price of the Pilot Metropolitan, but still not too expensive. Might be worth a shot. Worst complaint I've seen is that it's a little scratchy with a fine point.
it might be twice the price, but half the price of the safari comes from the high quality nib, $13, which is the important part. It's a great pen and it works well. I only wrote with lamy ink as of now and I have some Noodlers on order. I have no doubt it will write just as well.
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On May 16 2013 22:12 Marimokkori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 15:39 Phael wrote:
Try searching ebay for Chinese pens:
"Jinhao fountain pen"
"Hero fountain pen"
"Kaigelu fountain pen"
"Duke fountain pen"
etc.
From reading many reviews, they seem to be 80-110% the performance of their counterparts (lets be honest, a lot of them are copycats of popular western pens), at 1-10% of the price - or less (See: Montblanc 149 vs Jinhao 159).
Except these pens have the worst quality control of all time. I've heard of people getting a pen that literally falls apart when they take it out of the box. It is possible to get them for 99cents + shipping, but it's probably worth it to just get a Metropolitan instead of taking the risk of getting a truly horrible pen.
Sure, the QA of some Chinese manufacturers are a little wanting, but there are lemons for every brand, and the Chinese manufacturers have really been turning their QA image around. Just check out a couple of comparison reviews from this guy who crafts pens himself:
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/222537-sonnet-comparisons-with-lookalikes/
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/220345-jinhao-century-mk-2/
The Parker, even though it's a bottom of the range pen, due to its high retail price would be expected to be much higher quality than the Chinese look-alikes. Well. What can I say? The Sonnet and K356 are basically identical when considering build quality. The only differentiation between them is design quality. The PS has better design quality in that the user has been considered in that provision has been made for different nibs. That's it.
This pen is of near-luxury quality, at a school pen price. Amazing.
Both these pens are fractionly less pleasant to use than the Sonnet
I considered a Safari, but it just looks so ugly. I've written through half a notebook so far with various fountain pens and I don't find the quality of writing to be significantly better or worse than a normal roller ball, so basically it just comes down to feel and image, and there is no way to compete with the Chinese manufacturers if you want an elegant pen that can still write for the price ($15 for this one):
![[image loading]](http://i.ebayimg.com/t/PICASSO-903-SHIMMERING-JADE-SILVER-F-NIB-FOUNTAIN-PEN-/00/s/NjUwWDY1MA==/z/H4EAAMXQvTlRgBUt/$T2eC16d,!yUE9s6NFmyCBRgBUtEc+w~~60_3.JPG?rt=nc)
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I'm sorry but someone has to rename that topic ..
Every single time i see it on the front threads..
+ Show Spoiler +I can't think about fountains of penis anymore
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So I learned a valuable lesson: don't leave a fountain pen in a hot car for a week. Mine is currently drying out after a thorough cleaning, as there was ink everywhere. Also a waste of ink ;D
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My pens and ink arrived today! I'm very happy, and rather sad about it at the same time. Some of my coworkers wanted to see them, how they worked, etc. So I filled them up with the Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo I had also ordered and did a little bit of writing. In the process of it all, the bottle of ink got knocked over. So I'm out a whole bottle of Iroshizuku, except for the two pens I had just filled. 
Top: Konrad; Bottom: Artista Crystal
+ Show Spoiler +
You'll have to forgive my penmanship, first time using a flex nib. The feathering you see is when I went very slowly and laid down a LOT of ink.
EDIT: Image size adjustment
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I don't work for anybody obviously but I just want to say that jetpens is very classy. I got a defective product and they're definitely making it right!
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On May 17 2013 06:17 Djzapz wrote:
I don't work for anybody obviously but I just want to say that jetpens is very classy. I got a defective product and they're definitely making it right!
Yeah, Jetpens is awesome. I get almost all my stuff from them. You can even submit recommendations on products for them to start carrying.
I was thinking about telling them what happened with the ink in case they would be willing to send another bottle =\
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On May 17 2013 06:41 Marimokkori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 06:17 Djzapz wrote:
I don't work for anybody obviously but I just want to say that jetpens is very classy. I got a defective product and they're definitely making it right! Yeah, Jetpens is awesome. I get almost all my stuff from them. You can even submit recommendations on products for them to start carrying. I was thinking about telling them what happened with the ink in case they would be willing to send another bottle =\
Yikes...and I get annoyed when I have to wipe the ink off my pen after refilling it because it's a waste xD (we have the same ink btw).
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On May 17 2013 18:09 wptlzkwjd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 06:41 Marimokkori wrote:On May 17 2013 06:17 Djzapz wrote:
I don't work for anybody obviously but I just want to say that jetpens is very classy. I got a defective product and they're definitely making it right! Yeah, Jetpens is awesome. I get almost all my stuff from them. You can even submit recommendations on products for them to start carrying. I was thinking about telling them what happened with the ink in case they would be willing to send another bottle =\ Yikes...and I get annoyed when I have to wipe the ink off my pen after refilling it because it's a waste xD (we have the same ink btw).
It's a really tiny amount even if fills a surprising amount of towel paper or whatever. But yeah I'm that way too... still 50ml of ink will last you for years unless you write like crazy.
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Hey all, I'm looking to grab a second pen to supplement my Lamy Vista (which I love!) and my express purpose behind this pen is to get a pen that will be fun and interesting to write with while providing variation of sorts. I love my Lamy but the script always looks exactly the same. The fun/expressive pen will be on my nightstand for journaling and other around the house pursuits, while the Lamy will travel with me and be a work pen.
My gut feeling is to go with a Komrad as it just looks fricking sweet and definitely is a pen that will reward learning its ins-and-outs. I'm also contemplating going with an other Lamy but with a calligraphy nib as I do enjoy that calligraphy look. I appreciate any feedback!
What causes the wider downstroke on the examples I've seen of the Komrad? Is is a calligraphy-like nib? Sorry for the nooby questions!
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On May 20 2013 10:57 Kronen wrote:
What causes the wider downstroke on the examples I've seen of the Komrad? Is is a calligraphy-like nib? Sorry for the nooby questions!
The Konrad has a flex nib, so when you use even slightly more pressure the nib's tines spread apart leaving a wider line (You can do this so some extent with most nibs, but flex nibs give much more variation). A calligraphy/italic nib have flat tips that give line variation depending on how you write with it.
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On May 20 2013 11:09 Jophess wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 10:57 Kronen wrote:
What causes the wider downstroke on the examples I've seen of the Komrad? Is is a calligraphy-like nib? Sorry for the nooby questions! The Konrad has a flex nib, so when you use even slightly more pressure the nib's tines spread apart leaving a wider line (You can do this so some extent with most nibs, but flex nibs give much more variation). A calligraphy/italic nib have flat tips that give line variation depending on how you write with it.
Ty sir for the clarification. On most examples, the above and also the page 1 example, it looks like the downstrokes on the flex nibs are wider than the cross strokes even without the flex-nib actuation. The first page example is a bit more obvious as the color is noticeably different from the heavy pressure to the lesser pressure. The above example is a bit different though, but vary characteristic and cool. I'm leaning towards the Konrad as it looks really interesting, and the only thing holding me back is the interchangability/versatility of the Lamy nibs. The Konrad will probably be a cheaper option on the whole as well...
Edit: I am a bit hesitant as I'm doing more research. The extensive tutorials on YouTube and elsewhere to customize the flow of the pen seem a bit daunting for a newbie like myself... it seems a good portion of people get the pen and are upset with the leakiness of the flow and send it back because they don't customize it.
Re-edit: After watching the videos, it seems that the initial cleaning and re-setting is roughly the same difficulty as the repairs I attempted on my busted Shaeffer, so that's a bit less daunting.
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On May 20 2013 12:26 Kronen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 11:09 Jophess wrote:On May 20 2013 10:57 Kronen wrote:
What causes the wider downstroke on the examples I've seen of the Komrad? Is is a calligraphy-like nib? Sorry for the nooby questions! The Konrad has a flex nib, so when you use even slightly more pressure the nib's tines spread apart leaving a wider line (You can do this so some extent with most nibs, but flex nibs give much more variation). A calligraphy/italic nib have flat tips that give line variation depending on how you write with it. Ty sir for the clarification. On most examples, the above and also the page 1 example, it looks like the downstrokes on the flex nibs are wider than the cross strokes even without the flex-nib actuation. The first page example is a bit more obvious as the color is noticeably different from the heavy pressure to the lesser pressure. The above example is a bit different though, but vary characteristic and cool. I'm leaning towards the Konrad as it looks really interesting, and the only thing holding me back is the interchangability/versatility of the Lamy nibs. The Konrad will probably be a cheaper option on the whole as well...
Hmm, I don't seem to get any line variation with no pressure on my Konrad. The thickness is comparable to a 0.05mm Ohto Graphic Liner and looks consistent throughout. It's not difficult to maintain, and adding flex also doesn't take a huge amount of force. If you're interested in a sample of writing with no pressure let me know.
Flex pens will railroad if you try to write too broadly too quickly. When you flex the nib to a large line it obviously lays more ink on the paper, but that doesn't magically increase the ink flow to an amount than can keep up at regular speeds. You'll have to slow down significantly if you want to really push the flex.
You might find this useful:
http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/nibs/flex_italic.htm
Some things to say about the Noodler's Konrad:
The nib and feed unit are identical to the Noodler's Ahab, so check that design out as well, you may like it more. The Ahab can also be used as an eyedropper that holds 6ml of ink - freaking massive ink capacity. Seriously insane amount of ink.
I have read a lot of complaints about these pens not working 100% out of the box. They often require some tuning, usually very minute. My first fill out of the box was with Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo ink. I stored it nib up and had a hard start, so I then stored it nib down to keep the feed saturated - and the entire ink storage leaked out of the pen. I had to reset the nib/feed to a better position to solve this.
EDIT:
I think it's worth adding that I'm very satisfied with my Konrad. Losing the initial fill of ink was a bummer, but I love the line variation and the extra fine line produced with no pressure is very much to my liking. Most who have success with the Noodler's flex pens seem to like them so much that they buy more of the same pen just because.
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On May 20 2013 12:57 Marimokkori wrote:
EDIT:
I think it's worth adding that I'm very satisfied with my Konrad. Losing the initial fill of ink was a bummer, but I love the line variation and the extra fine line produced with no pressure is very much to my liking. Most who have success with the Noodler's flex pens seem to like them so much that they buy more of the same pen just because.
Ty for your thoughts sir! (I abridged the quote for brevity's sake) I'm leaning towards the Konrad but could be swayed towards the Ahab solely due to the completely clear demonstrator being available on that model.
I know basically any inks will work for my fine-nibbed Safari and work well. What inks would you suggest for a Konrad (particularly inks that would demonstrate shading)? Also, I'm interested in the performance of quick dry inks. Am I correct in assuming there's no reason to think that flex pens would perform differently/poorly with faster drying inks? When it comes to getting ink I'm probably going to grab a smattering of samples from Goulet and see what I enjoy using.
EDIT: those trial sizes are incredibly small and relatively expensive... Thinking I'll grab a safe standard blue-blue/black ink that shades nicely and go for samples when I'm done using the standard.
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On May 20 2013 22:17 Kronen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 12:57 Marimokkori wrote:
EDIT:
I think it's worth adding that I'm very satisfied with my Konrad. Losing the initial fill of ink was a bummer, but I love the line variation and the extra fine line produced with no pressure is very much to my liking. Most who have success with the Noodler's flex pens seem to like them so much that they buy more of the same pen just because. Ty for your thoughts sir! (I abridged the quote for brevity's sake) I'm leaning towards the Konrad but could be swayed towards the Ahab solely due to the completely clear demonstrator being available on that model. I know basically any inks will work for my fine-nibbed Safari and work well. What inks would you suggest for a Konrad (particularly inks that would demonstrate shading)? Also, I'm interested in the performance of quick dry inks. Am I correct in assuming there's no reason to think that flex pens would perform differently/poorly with faster drying inks? When it comes to getting ink I'm probably going to grab a smattering of samples from Goulet and see what I enjoy using.EDIT: those trial sizes are incredibly small and relatively expensive... Thinking I'll grab a safe standard blue-blue/black ink that shades nicely and go for samples when I'm done using the standard.
The Konrad has a clear demo version also. - Which is apparently out of stock on Goulet's site with no ETA.
I'm not sure if fast drying inks will do well with a lot of flex. I haven't tried any, but it's possible that they will railroad very easily. Because the nib tines spread apart, the ink needs to be able to fill the gap - and some inks just don't do that very well, resulting in heavy railroading.
As far as shading goes, I think Noodler's Apache Sunset is considered one of the best shaders. I wouldn't know what to recommend for blue/black inks when it comes to shading.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oQaAHYq.jpg)
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