EPTOnly time will tell I guess.
Is the USA heading towards "Big Brother" Govt? - Page 8
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
Only time will tell I guess. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On February 06 2013 07:53 sam!zdat wrote: Well, that plus his definition of totalitarianism just sounds like absolutism to me where's the power in a totalitarian state? god I'm glad I never had to pass an exam with this subject :D It's sad tho that one of the main aspect of totalitarism, the fact that it's not the state which had the power, is ignored by 90% of the people talking about it. His definition is perfect for an ideal fascist state tho, dunno if you can apply it on Italy tho since it's a tad complicated with the church and resilience of the italians. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
the long answer: fuck if I know, go ask Arendt and Zizek. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
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imre
France9263 Posts
On February 06 2013 08:17 Shiragaku wrote: I actually like Zizek's simple definition of future totalitarianism better. It will not be Orwell's 1984, it will not be Huxley's Brave New World, simply, it will be like China's and Singapore's form of capitalism aka East Asian Capitalism. Naomi Klein also talked about it quite it bit on Democracy Now! as well. I really need to read first hand material from Zizek, because Arendt and Lefort are interesting from an historical and philosophical pov, but gosh, it's quite dated. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
So my thoughts is definitely yes, it will become a bigger "big brother" government, and it will happen right in front of our eyes (as it is now with Obama). | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On February 06 2013 08:24 sam!zdat wrote: Yeah, stuff from the 50s is starting to seem really dated, although Arendt is a beautiful soul who is always worth reading, even if she's trying to solve some different problems than those facing us today. I would recommend Zizek's first book, "The Sublime Object of Ideology," and also "The Plague of Fantasies" as introductions. He's so much fun! I just received "Did Someone Say Totalitarianism?" today, so I can't comment on its quality yet, although that might turn out to be more directly relevant to the discussion here i fall in love with arendt when I read this in the introduction of the antisemitism: I'll try to deal with this issue with zeal of the political analyst and the rigor of the historian. When you're studying both these matters <3 | ||
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StateOfDelusion
18 Posts
On February 06 2013 08:26 Pufftrees wrote: I think the main issue is that liberals think of the conservatives as the "evil empire" type of government. Especially after Bush. It's to the point that they can't even bother to see how much more "evil empire" shit is happening under Obama then it ever did in Bush. And it gets zero publicity. So my thoughts is definitely yes, it will become a bigger "big brother" government, and it will happen right in front of our eyes (as it is now with Obama). Yeah, it is a depressing truth that the average person cares more about their political "team" winning than about actual principles or policies. | ||
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Seldentar
United States888 Posts
On February 06 2013 04:36 Gaga wrote: you are already there... “Inverted totalitarianism unlike classical totalitarianism does not revolve around a demagogue or charismatic leader, it finds expression in the anonymity of the corporate state. It purports to cherish democracy, patriotism and the constitution while manipulating internal levers to subvert and thwart democratic process.” Sounds like the current state of America to me. Thanks for posting that video. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On February 06 2013 08:45 StateOfDelusion wrote: Yeah, it is a depressing truth that the average person cares more about their political "team" winning than about actual principles or policies. At which point we're not really much better than the Byzantines with their Blues and Greens. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On February 06 2013 08:26 Pufftrees wrote: I think the main issue is that liberals think of the conservatives as the "evil empire" type of government. Especially after Bush. It's to the point that they can't even bother to see how much more "evil empire" shit is happening under Obama then it ever did in Bush. And it gets zero publicity. So my thoughts is definitely yes, it will become a bigger "big brother" government, and it will happen right in front of our eyes (as it is now with Obama). Welcome to the media. The things Bush never got a free pass on, Obama does (Preaches against the Patriot Act, quietly extends the majority of its provisions. Guantanamo Bay suddenly dropped out of the news. Etc). As long as it isn't a Republican doing it. Republicans stand for most of what Democrats do, but a little less of the same. That's why we talk about the conservative wing of the Republican party (as opposed to RINO's primarily, as well as the "screw the social legislation" crowd) and the liberal wing of the Democratic party (though most of the conservative conservative Democrats left from the McGovern to Mondale era, the modern use of the term being more the centrist leaning Democrats.) I dislike the trend of execute orders (Immigration), recess appointments, and governing by state agency instead of elected representatives. That trend, I believe, ends in a system more directly resembling totalitarianism. You stuff the bureaucracy and the courts with your appointed agents, so that whatever parties control Congress, you control the majority of the state's power. | ||
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darthfoley
United States8004 Posts
I do not believe we will ever become a totalitarian state, but things like the Patriot Act and other retarded bills make it seem somewhat plausible in the distant future. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
So in a sense the OP is sensationalist and overblown with some truths to it. IF the US does go in that direction it will be more like Brave New World where the populace is distracted enough by BS and pop culture than 1984 rule by force. | ||
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sCnDiamond
Germany340 Posts
On February 06 2013 09:00 darthfoley wrote: I do not believe we will ever become a totalitarian state, but things like the Patriot Act and other retarded bills make it seem somewhat plausible in the distant future. Take a look at what they've done to the NSA whistleblowers and the "Wikileaks-tainted" and what has been done to them, you'll realize it's not in the somewhat distant future, but already happening. | ||
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Narobz
United States20 Posts
First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me. - Martin Niemöller | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On February 06 2013 10:27 Narobz wrote: Something fishy is happening, can't pin point it yet, but here is a quote about Nazi Germany as it happened. First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me. - Martin Niemöller Let me know when they come for ANY group... | ||
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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