On February 06 2013 03:30 Shiragaku wrote: Talking from experience, those who tend to be so confident in what they say is the truth and realizing it will wake you up are often the ones who tend to be the most brainwashed. This is pretty universal for all ideologies.
I think a better way to approach the notion of truth is being damn sure that the red pill you swallowed was not a blue bill dyed red.
And how does one approach that?
In your case, I would question the notion of what is means to be a cult member by watching other cult members. Since I assume you are anti-communist, listen to Maoists and Stalinists. A good start would be MaoistRebelNews.
I have questioned what it means to be a cultist for years, and I have indeed started listening to such people.
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If I were you I would question the notion of whether or not what symbols someone chooses to express their thoughts completely reflects their actual thoughts. Indeed if you were to take your own advice I think you'd think twice before "assuming" I was anything - it seems like you who claims to know so much tbh.
I was hoping for more of a general approach btw. That's how Socrates would've wanted it.
It is not intellectually expedient to ask "second guess" questions before taking a first guess, and what else is someone to do when faced with a giant Confederate flag image, a Ron Paul video entitled "The South was Right", and a bunch of "FUCK BIG BROTHER" quips that do not amount to constructive criticism? You entered into the discussion with symbols and ideology, and now we are to actively second guess the very things you put forward why? If your perspective is more about people and culture, then the onus is on you to make that clear to other posters, and you probably ought to focus on using language instead of symbols if you want to avoid misunderstandings. THAT is what Socrates would have wanted.
As an observer/reader, I actually don't care as much for being expedient as I do about being thorough tbh. As a forum poster (and aspiring writer) however, I understand the value of being concise.
I stated that my partial intention was to remove the connotation - the "first guess" - that so many people apply to that particular symbol.
Whether or not you found the post constructive is rather up for debate; okay you don't like Ron Paul (that's cool, I think he's wrong about a lot too, I haven't denounced Jon Huntsman and I am going to learn more about him), but I do understand why - beyond the video and without critical thought - why that post would initially be considered non-constructive.
IIRC Socrates died due to being unable to avoid these misunderstandings... and this is where I'll come back to this convo later I guess.
Socrates was brought in for corrupting the youth and creating new gods, he coulda avoided the whole trail but he didnt want to leave the state. (i mean thats the how the story goes, its all 2nd hand and been translated a dozen times)
This is old news, but it's stories like this guy which make me pretty confident there will never be a time where it's total totalitarianism or oppression. There are to many good men and just as the first revolution happened, many would die in defense of a long standing tradition to defend their nation. We have to realize, the government isn't this big body of evil Dr. Evil's rubbing their cats... YES politics gets in the way and YES it affects their ability to serve their nation at times but never to any extent that would cause suspicion of totalitarian ideologies. To support that agenda you need a military that would follow suit, I dare say it's an insult to the men and women of the armed services to insinuate they're anything comparable to indoctrinated cattle to do as commanded.
The only fear, as always, is people like Henry Kissenger who can influence mass amounts of politics under the nose of administrations and congress, this is where we must first worry but totalitarian and big brother? No more than any other nation, America for all it's faults, still stands for values that, as a Canadian, makes me jealous at times but generally envious.
On February 06 2013 04:34 Mefano wrote: lol the government should represent the people not be a different entity. In a democracy this shouldn't be a problem.
the people ain't an entity (it is formed by several entities tho) while the government is one (it's not monolithic and you can argue a shitlot about the intern competition going on between different government sectors, and then between different levels of administration but it's still relatively united in front of the exterior).
I didn't see this link posted on here, and I'd say its pretty relevant to this conversation. Is this power too much for an "informed high-ranking official" to have?
P.S. I played the OP in sc2 before, and he's on my friends list for some reason, so he must be a cool dude lol
On February 06 2013 01:33 Barrin wrote: I know the South are unfortunately going to be the last states to legalize it (lots of religious communities down here)... Florida in particular, where I live (REPRESENT~).
But you know what, the South had something to say about this "big brother" govt. and the more I learn about it the more I realize where my loyalties lie.
My favorite politician explains it as well as I could: + Show Spoiler +
Let me be very clear: FUCK YOU Big Brother. Power and freedom to the states and the people. That's what I care about.
Legalize it.
What a joke. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, especially when it comes to popular symbology and the actuality of this cultish love for state governments that Ron Paul neophytes seem to oh so enjoy. You may think that flag means something positive, but many, many people do not share that perspective. Just know who else waves that flag in pride. Furthermore, what have state governments done to impress you so? Is it the gobbling up of federal dollars only to cut their own education budgets, the general handling of money like children, or is it the publishing of state state history books that gloss over Andersonville? Is it the elimination of the teaching of evolution from science classrooms, the partisan seat swapping in the state senate and house in order to further cut public service budgets or the wonderful gerrymandering taking place around the country in predominantly Red states? I guess there's lots to pick from.
The moment popular libertarianism realizes what makes Ron Paul a fucking idiot and Jon Huntsman a reasonable man is the moment that libertarianism actually stands a shot at having a positive impact on this country. In the meantime, go ahead and worship the pork barrel double dealer racist from the good city of Galveston, I'm sure that'll show big brother. If you can actually watch that piece of trash on covering up notions of racism with some Civil War romance novel, then you are already too far gone.
Oh yeah, as a fan of marijuana legalization, I'd like to hereby declare that a vast majority of potheads like myself are not bigoted racists with a poor sense of history like Barrin.
Some truth in this post. I don't get what's so great about state governments over federal government. If anything, states like Florida, Arizona, Texas, Alabama, Mississippi (oh fuck just throw the entire south in there) show us that state governments can be absolutely atrocious. If anything, the federal government would be far better at running those states than their own state legislatures, and Congress is practically useless at the moment.
I really think you should include California in that list. That state's a mess, arguably worse than much of "the South."
I'd prefer state governments over one federal government simply on the basis of letting the states mess up so that they may learn from their mistakes on their own. Simply entrusting the power to one large government at the national level would be too easily tyrannized by the majority if you ask me. Would rather have more direct, community control of my local government.
If it does become a totalitarian state the government will only be a front. It'll be the lobbyists and big corporations who lobby the government who are really pulling all the strings.
Honestly, though I think it's more likely that the U.S. will socially implode/explode, causing a breakdown of government and a skyrocket of crime, before the Big Brother shows up.
On February 06 2013 01:33 Barrin wrote: I know the South are unfortunately going to be the last states to legalize it (lots of religious communities down here)... Florida in particular, where I live (REPRESENT~).
But you know what, the South had something to say about this "big brother" govt. and the more I learn about it the more I realize where my loyalties lie.
don't be obtuse. Slavery wasn't the sole reason for the war by any means, but it was absolutely a huge part of it and there's a damn good reason the the flag is associated with it. A major part of the south's anger over a big brother government was free states not wanting to respect a southerner's property—ie, his slaves—if he moved to a state that outlawed slavery.
just because some naive 18 year old black kid doesn't know a bit of history doesnt mean change the flag's very intertwined history with slavery
I'm not denying that it wasn't a part of it - or even the only part of it for some people.
But seriously, a lot of people really have dropped that connotation and I am only trying to encourage others to do so as well.
And no, not "just because" - that's a bit of a straw man, you should've done the whole quote.
Those people are called revisionists.
There were many factors at play, but slavery was absolutely a main one. A major part of the state rights you're going on about was intertwined with that.
I don't know about now, but it's definitely going to happen later if we don't get a big culture change. Democracy only works if the people are smart, hard-working and educated.
On February 05 2013 20:11 kmillz wrote: I don't think it is likely that it becomes a totalitarian state, but that really depends on the people to keep electing officials who vote against things that infringe on our freedoms. Fortunately most people are still strong supporters of the 2nd amendment, which is in my opinion the most important to keeping us safe from dictatorship.
I agree with this. I don't think the second amendment will ever be repealled or changed though for one main reason. The United States has to most armed citizens on the planet. A majority of these gun owners are super adamant about their rights to own guns. I believe if guns were banned entirely removing them from the hands of the population would be an utter bloodbath and most likely would spawn a civil war
Yeah yeah, gun owners really love their second amendment so nothing will come of it.
Nevermind the fact that the governement is already violating the first as well as the fourth through eighth amendment, as long as you can carry guns around with you. Officials can search or wiretap anyone at anytime as long as they say it's in the nation's best interest. People are getting detained indefinitly without getting charged for anything, imprisoned without due process. Oh, and let's not forget about the countless cases of torture carried out by american officials in american run "prisons" or "camps" or what you wanna call them.
You are already getting fucked, you just haven't realized it because it didn't affect you yet.
Six pages in and not a single poster has gotten himself banned yet, good work and keep it up TL'ers. Dunno why people make threads asking questions that can be answered with a simple NO though
Also people have no sense of historical perspective Jesus Christ
On February 06 2013 03:20 Barrin wrote: P.S. And no I do not claim to have a "great sense of history",
your laws do somewhat prevent totalitarism of a party, or an indivicual, but not of corporates. ruling party changes every 8 year but big companies been getting their ways for around 60 years now.
democracy if executed properly can run by the book and in benefit of a police state.
Most of the doomsday talk of Big Brother and the Orwellian future is mostly whine and people who WISH they were living in persecution from the government.
On February 06 2013 05:48 Shiragaku wrote: Most of the doomsday talk of Big Brother and the Orwellian future is mostly whine and people who WISH they were living in persecution from the government.
It's not "doomsday talk" or an Orwellian future when oppressive regimes have existed throughout our entire history, and exist even now in places like North Korea. It is one of the realities of life, which is why it is so important to be vigilant against it.
On February 06 2013 05:48 Shiragaku wrote: Most of the doomsday talk of Big Brother and the Orwellian future is mostly whine and people who WISH they were living in persecution from the government.
It's not "doomsday talk" or an Orwellian future when oppressive regimes have existed throughout our entire history, and exist even now in places like North Korea. It is one of the realities of life, which is why it is so important to be vigilant against it.
You call it whining...
And what exactly are you doing to fix north korea or to prevent future totalitarian regimes?? Reading the banality of evil and declaring ones vigilance is alot easier then actually doing anything.
Whatever... I, for one, will rest easier knowing that the people understand the importance of vigilance.
EPT![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ifxNU1cZNp8/UIf6hzbLanI/AAAAAAAAk0k/YHI8X5aCG4Q/s1600/bandeira-flag.jpg)
