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sephiria
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
106 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-30 02:36:06
March 30 2013 02:34 GMT
#1201
On March 30 2013 11:11 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2013 11:05 sephiria wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:44 Zaros wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:41 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:38 Larkin wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:36 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is more saber rattling because NK has constantly said statements like this, yet never fell back on them. Despite all of Kim Jong-Un's Western education, he clearly has no idea how to negotiate through threats like his father did. This will only increase the threat of warfare which NK alone cannot sustain in the long-term, or will end with more threats being thrown.


It's been constant escalation though. That's what's worrying. Every statement is more severe, and this one seems like the worst of them all.

Unless it's just the greatest April Fool's prank in the history of mankind.

It is escalating, but has NK actually demonstrated the capability to engage in long-term warfare against a force of the USA and South Korea, let alone the rest of the West? My relatives in Korea and family in Canada have listened to this utter crap spoken for decades, and they have mainly been a tactic to force the UN to mobilize for more food aid and oil. Maybe NK is sick of being rejected despite all their attempts at threatening, and finally feel this is the only way to get global attention.


The only time they fought was in the korean war in the 50s with the backing from china and USSR they managed to nearly take the whole of Korea before nearly losing it all and eventually the current borders were reached at the end of the war. North Korea on their own cannot win vs the USA and south korea but they could kill thousands if not millions of people and theres always a chance China could jump in and they have a much better military than North Korea.


First off: China has no interest in military conflicts, they also have no chance against the US at present (and they know it).

+ Show Spoiler +
NK might have a large military force, but they lack the logistics. They would never even be able to take Seoul (which is in reach of a good portion of their artillery) because they lack air dominance, and moving your troops through narrow chokepoints (landscape layout) under enemy fire is a bad idea. Also, it is doubtful they could even move 200.000 soldiers at once (or even millions) because they never actually attempted such a thing. Logistics would leave their frontline without ammunition after like, a day or so. Also, the SK military has done nothing else for more than 50 years, but improving their defensive capabilities against an invasion. This would be comparable to germany attacking the maginot-line in 1933 (in a fictional scenario of course).
Experts estimate that 50-80% of NKs artillery would be gone within a few days (assuming they use it and don't move it forward. If they move it, this will occur much faster) due to heavy airstrikes. It is also believed that the NK military does not have modern weaponry. They should have late cold war tech.

additionaly, there are heavily fortified bunkers in Greater Seoul that can protect around 20 million people. "millions" of deaths are extremely unlikely.
If they just attack civilian targets without any attempt to win or to survive the first 48 hrs, they could maybe kill 80.000 civilians. Since the largest minority in South Korea are chinese nationals, often party's-family-member, they'd be pissing off china which is not the best idea.
additionaly, it is quite safe to assume that they can not actually use nuclear missiles because they at present do not possess the technology to produce nuclear warheads that are small enough.

I am pretty sure they will not attack for at least 10 years except if the generals are suicidal AND heavily deluded.



I think this part is highly debatable. I'd argue China has quite a bit to lose, if they were to lose NK to USA+SK. They probably have more to lose than they did the Vietnam War; and they supported North Vietnam at that time too. It's a matter of how much they really value that land and how much they're willing to spend to defend it.


Yes, they have something to lose, they might intervene on a similar level, but this will never reach the scale of an all out war because they have no chance of winning. The more they invest, the more they lose, so I'd expect them to try to save their face and (additionaly) maybe make NK a demilitarized zone (to avoid being completely surrounded)
But this assesment does not make an all out war likely. Especially since there is a study around that suggests that the US could at present first-strike russia and china without having to fear retaliation (not sure if that's true, but if this is a possibility, china will not attack "officialy".)

On March 30 2013 11:12 Zaros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2013 11:05 sephiria wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:44 Zaros wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:41 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:38 Larkin wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:36 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is more saber rattling because NK has constantly said statements like this, yet never fell back on them. Despite all of Kim Jong-Un's Western education, he clearly has no idea how to negotiate through threats like his father did. This will only increase the threat of warfare which NK alone cannot sustain in the long-term, or will end with more threats being thrown.


It's been constant escalation though. That's what's worrying. Every statement is more severe, and this one seems like the worst of them all.

Unless it's just the greatest April Fool's prank in the history of mankind.

It is escalating, but has NK actually demonstrated the capability to engage in long-term warfare against a force of the USA and South Korea, let alone the rest of the West? My relatives in Korea and family in Canada have listened to this utter crap spoken for decades, and they have mainly been a tactic to force the UN to mobilize for more food aid and oil. Maybe NK is sick of being rejected despite all their attempts at threatening, and finally feel this is the only way to get global attention.


The only time they fought was in the korean war in the 50s with the backing from china and USSR they managed to nearly take the whole of Korea before nearly losing it all and eventually the current borders were reached at the end of the war. North Korea on their own cannot win vs the USA and south korea but they could kill thousands if not millions of people and theres always a chance China could jump in and they have a much better military than North Korea.


First off: China has no interest in military conflicts, they also have no chance against the US at present (and they know it).

NK might have a large military force, but they lack the logistics. They would never even be able to take Seoul (which is in reach of a good portion of their artillery) because they lack air dominance, and moving your troops through narrow chokepoints (landscape layout) under enemy fire is a bad idea. Also, it is doubtful they could even move 200.000 soldiers at once (or even millions) because they never actually attempted such a thing. Logistics would leave their frontline without ammunition after like, a day or so. Also, the SK military has done nothing else for more than 50 years, but improving their defensive capabilities against an invasion. This would be comparable to germany attacking the maginot-line in 1933 (in a fictional scenario of course).
Experts estimate that 50-80% of NKs artillery would be gone within a few days (assuming they use it and don't move it forward. If they move it, this will occur much faster) due to heavy airstrikes. It is also believed that the NK military does not have modern weaponry. They should have late cold war tech.

additionaly, there are heavily fortified bunkers in Greater Seoul that can protect around 20 million people. "millions" of deaths are extremely unlikely.
If they just attack civilian targets without any attempt to win or to survive the first 48 hrs, they could maybe kill 80.000 civilians. Since the largest minority in South Korea are chinese nationals, often party's-family-member, they'd be pissing off china which is not the best idea.
additionaly, it is quite safe to assume that they can not actually use nuclear missiles because they at present do not possess the technology to produce nuclear warheads that are small enough.

I am pretty sure they will not attack for at least 10 years except if the generals are suicidal AND heavily deluded.




China also has no interest in the US taking up even great presence in the pacific if the north did start a war and they are officially allies, but I agree its unlikely for china to get involved. As for seoul i dont see how people will get in the bunkers quick enough if the north just decides to completely flatten the city as its first move, and do we really know anything of their nuclear technology? Even a small range missle with nuclear capability could hit anywhere in south kroea they could have other WMDs aswell, if syria has chemical weapons im sure north korea has some.


they don't get in the bunkers quick enough, which is why up to 80.000 would be killed. Also, the artillery just reaches the northern part of seoul, and to flatten it, it is just not strong enough.
I have never heard of efficient chemical weapons. you might be able to kill a few tenthousand with them (which is not nice for the defender), but this does not influence the argumentation above, since the outcome would be the same. This is also true for nuclear weapons, since a retaliation strike from nato would burn NK to the ground.
People usually act rationally (at least from their perspective) there is no scenario in which NK has a remote chance of winning, so they'll not start.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
March 30 2013 02:40 GMT
#1202
On March 30 2013 11:34 sephiria wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2013 11:11 wei2coolman wrote:
On March 30 2013 11:05 sephiria wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:44 Zaros wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:41 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:38 Larkin wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:36 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is more saber rattling because NK has constantly said statements like this, yet never fell back on them. Despite all of Kim Jong-Un's Western education, he clearly has no idea how to negotiate through threats like his father did. This will only increase the threat of warfare which NK alone cannot sustain in the long-term, or will end with more threats being thrown.


It's been constant escalation though. That's what's worrying. Every statement is more severe, and this one seems like the worst of them all.

Unless it's just the greatest April Fool's prank in the history of mankind.

It is escalating, but has NK actually demonstrated the capability to engage in long-term warfare against a force of the USA and South Korea, let alone the rest of the West? My relatives in Korea and family in Canada have listened to this utter crap spoken for decades, and they have mainly been a tactic to force the UN to mobilize for more food aid and oil. Maybe NK is sick of being rejected despite all their attempts at threatening, and finally feel this is the only way to get global attention.


The only time they fought was in the korean war in the 50s with the backing from china and USSR they managed to nearly take the whole of Korea before nearly losing it all and eventually the current borders were reached at the end of the war. North Korea on their own cannot win vs the USA and south korea but they could kill thousands if not millions of people and theres always a chance China could jump in and they have a much better military than North Korea.


First off: China has no interest in military conflicts, they also have no chance against the US at present (and they know it).

+ Show Spoiler +
NK might have a large military force, but they lack the logistics. They would never even be able to take Seoul (which is in reach of a good portion of their artillery) because they lack air dominance, and moving your troops through narrow chokepoints (landscape layout) under enemy fire is a bad idea. Also, it is doubtful they could even move 200.000 soldiers at once (or even millions) because they never actually attempted such a thing. Logistics would leave their frontline without ammunition after like, a day or so. Also, the SK military has done nothing else for more than 50 years, but improving their defensive capabilities against an invasion. This would be comparable to germany attacking the maginot-line in 1933 (in a fictional scenario of course).
Experts estimate that 50-80% of NKs artillery would be gone within a few days (assuming they use it and don't move it forward. If they move it, this will occur much faster) due to heavy airstrikes. It is also believed that the NK military does not have modern weaponry. They should have late cold war tech.

additionaly, there are heavily fortified bunkers in Greater Seoul that can protect around 20 million people. "millions" of deaths are extremely unlikely.
If they just attack civilian targets without any attempt to win or to survive the first 48 hrs, they could maybe kill 80.000 civilians. Since the largest minority in South Korea are chinese nationals, often party's-family-member, they'd be pissing off china which is not the best idea.
additionaly, it is quite safe to assume that they can not actually use nuclear missiles because they at present do not possess the technology to produce nuclear warheads that are small enough.

I am pretty sure they will not attack for at least 10 years except if the generals are suicidal AND heavily deluded.



I think this part is highly debatable. I'd argue China has quite a bit to lose, if they were to lose NK to USA+SK. They probably have more to lose than they did the Vietnam War; and they supported North Vietnam at that time too. It's a matter of how much they really value that land and how much they're willing to spend to defend it.


Yes, they have something to lose, they might intervene on a similar level, but this will never reach the scale of an all out war because they have no chance of winning. The more they invest, the more they lose, so I'd expect them to try to save their face and (additionaly) maybe make NK a demilitarized zone (to avoid being completely surrounded)
But this assesment does not make an all out war likely. Especially since there is a study around that suggests that the US could at present first-strike russia and china without having to fear retaliation (not sure if that's true, but if this is a possibility, china will not attack "officialy".)

Show nested quote +
On March 30 2013 11:12 Zaros wrote:
On March 30 2013 11:05 sephiria wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:44 Zaros wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:41 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:38 Larkin wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:36 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is more saber rattling because NK has constantly said statements like this, yet never fell back on them. Despite all of Kim Jong-Un's Western education, he clearly has no idea how to negotiate through threats like his father did. This will only increase the threat of warfare which NK alone cannot sustain in the long-term, or will end with more threats being thrown.


It's been constant escalation though. That's what's worrying. Every statement is more severe, and this one seems like the worst of them all.

Unless it's just the greatest April Fool's prank in the history of mankind.

It is escalating, but has NK actually demonstrated the capability to engage in long-term warfare against a force of the USA and South Korea, let alone the rest of the West? My relatives in Korea and family in Canada have listened to this utter crap spoken for decades, and they have mainly been a tactic to force the UN to mobilize for more food aid and oil. Maybe NK is sick of being rejected despite all their attempts at threatening, and finally feel this is the only way to get global attention.


The only time they fought was in the korean war in the 50s with the backing from china and USSR they managed to nearly take the whole of Korea before nearly losing it all and eventually the current borders were reached at the end of the war. North Korea on their own cannot win vs the USA and south korea but they could kill thousands if not millions of people and theres always a chance China could jump in and they have a much better military than North Korea.


First off: China has no interest in military conflicts, they also have no chance against the US at present (and they know it).

NK might have a large military force, but they lack the logistics. They would never even be able to take Seoul (which is in reach of a good portion of their artillery) because they lack air dominance, and moving your troops through narrow chokepoints (landscape layout) under enemy fire is a bad idea. Also, it is doubtful they could even move 200.000 soldiers at once (or even millions) because they never actually attempted such a thing. Logistics would leave their frontline without ammunition after like, a day or so. Also, the SK military has done nothing else for more than 50 years, but improving their defensive capabilities against an invasion. This would be comparable to germany attacking the maginot-line in 1933 (in a fictional scenario of course).
Experts estimate that 50-80% of NKs artillery would be gone within a few days (assuming they use it and don't move it forward. If they move it, this will occur much faster) due to heavy airstrikes. It is also believed that the NK military does not have modern weaponry. They should have late cold war tech.

additionaly, there are heavily fortified bunkers in Greater Seoul that can protect around 20 million people. "millions" of deaths are extremely unlikely.
If they just attack civilian targets without any attempt to win or to survive the first 48 hrs, they could maybe kill 80.000 civilians. Since the largest minority in South Korea are chinese nationals, often party's-family-member, they'd be pissing off china which is not the best idea.
additionaly, it is quite safe to assume that they can not actually use nuclear missiles because they at present do not possess the technology to produce nuclear warheads that are small enough.

I am pretty sure they will not attack for at least 10 years except if the generals are suicidal AND heavily deluded.




China also has no interest in the US taking up even great presence in the pacific if the north did start a war and they are officially allies, but I agree its unlikely for china to get involved. As for seoul i dont see how people will get in the bunkers quick enough if the north just decides to completely flatten the city as its first move, and do we really know anything of their nuclear technology? Even a small range missle with nuclear capability could hit anywhere in south kroea they could have other WMDs aswell, if syria has chemical weapons im sure north korea has some.


they don't get in the bunkers quick enough, which is why up to 80.000 would be killed. Also, the artillery just reaches the northern part of seoul, and to flatten it, it is just not strong enough.
I have never heard of efficient chemical weapons. you might be able to kill a few tenthousand with them (which is not nice for the defender), but this does not influence the argumentation above, since the outcome would be the same. This is also true for nuclear weapons, since a retaliation strike from nato would burn NK to the ground.
People usually act rationally (at least from their perspective) there is no scenario in which NK has a remote chance of winning, so they'll not start.

If china does get invovled, i agree it won't be a "full" out war; but it will be a huge investment. Even a few AA defense system would do wonders for NK military advancement. Even if the extent of help is just a few troops + shit ton of equipment (which is a drop of water in reference to what China can afford), it'll make it that much harder for US and SK to advance; ultimately US+SK will prevail, the question is the cost. How much money? how many lives? how long?
liftlift > tsm
sephiria
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
106 Posts
March 30 2013 02:47 GMT
#1203
On March 30 2013 11:40 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2013 11:34 sephiria wrote:
On March 30 2013 11:11 wei2coolman wrote:
On March 30 2013 11:05 sephiria wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:44 Zaros wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:41 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:38 Larkin wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:36 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is more saber rattling because NK has constantly said statements like this, yet never fell back on them. Despite all of Kim Jong-Un's Western education, he clearly has no idea how to negotiate through threats like his father did. This will only increase the threat of warfare which NK alone cannot sustain in the long-term, or will end with more threats being thrown.


It's been constant escalation though. That's what's worrying. Every statement is more severe, and this one seems like the worst of them all.

Unless it's just the greatest April Fool's prank in the history of mankind.

It is escalating, but has NK actually demonstrated the capability to engage in long-term warfare against a force of the USA and South Korea, let alone the rest of the West? My relatives in Korea and family in Canada have listened to this utter crap spoken for decades, and they have mainly been a tactic to force the UN to mobilize for more food aid and oil. Maybe NK is sick of being rejected despite all their attempts at threatening, and finally feel this is the only way to get global attention.


The only time they fought was in the korean war in the 50s with the backing from china and USSR they managed to nearly take the whole of Korea before nearly losing it all and eventually the current borders were reached at the end of the war. North Korea on their own cannot win vs the USA and south korea but they could kill thousands if not millions of people and theres always a chance China could jump in and they have a much better military than North Korea.


First off: China has no interest in military conflicts, they also have no chance against the US at present (and they know it).

+ Show Spoiler +
NK might have a large military force, but they lack the logistics. They would never even be able to take Seoul (which is in reach of a good portion of their artillery) because they lack air dominance, and moving your troops through narrow chokepoints (landscape layout) under enemy fire is a bad idea. Also, it is doubtful they could even move 200.000 soldiers at once (or even millions) because they never actually attempted such a thing. Logistics would leave their frontline without ammunition after like, a day or so. Also, the SK military has done nothing else for more than 50 years, but improving their defensive capabilities against an invasion. This would be comparable to germany attacking the maginot-line in 1933 (in a fictional scenario of course).
Experts estimate that 50-80% of NKs artillery would be gone within a few days (assuming they use it and don't move it forward. If they move it, this will occur much faster) due to heavy airstrikes. It is also believed that the NK military does not have modern weaponry. They should have late cold war tech.

additionaly, there are heavily fortified bunkers in Greater Seoul that can protect around 20 million people. "millions" of deaths are extremely unlikely.
If they just attack civilian targets without any attempt to win or to survive the first 48 hrs, they could maybe kill 80.000 civilians. Since the largest minority in South Korea are chinese nationals, often party's-family-member, they'd be pissing off china which is not the best idea.
additionaly, it is quite safe to assume that they can not actually use nuclear missiles because they at present do not possess the technology to produce nuclear warheads that are small enough.

I am pretty sure they will not attack for at least 10 years except if the generals are suicidal AND heavily deluded.



I think this part is highly debatable. I'd argue China has quite a bit to lose, if they were to lose NK to USA+SK. They probably have more to lose than they did the Vietnam War; and they supported North Vietnam at that time too. It's a matter of how much they really value that land and how much they're willing to spend to defend it.


Yes, they have something to lose, they might intervene on a similar level, but this will never reach the scale of an all out war because they have no chance of winning. The more they invest, the more they lose, so I'd expect them to try to save their face and (additionaly) maybe make NK a demilitarized zone (to avoid being completely surrounded)
But this assesment does not make an all out war likely. Especially since there is a study around that suggests that the US could at present first-strike russia and china without having to fear retaliation (not sure if that's true, but if this is a possibility, china will not attack "officialy".)

On March 30 2013 11:12 Zaros wrote:
On March 30 2013 11:05 sephiria wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:44 Zaros wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:41 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:38 Larkin wrote:
On March 30 2013 10:36 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is more saber rattling because NK has constantly said statements like this, yet never fell back on them. Despite all of Kim Jong-Un's Western education, he clearly has no idea how to negotiate through threats like his father did. This will only increase the threat of warfare which NK alone cannot sustain in the long-term, or will end with more threats being thrown.


It's been constant escalation though. That's what's worrying. Every statement is more severe, and this one seems like the worst of them all.

Unless it's just the greatest April Fool's prank in the history of mankind.

It is escalating, but has NK actually demonstrated the capability to engage in long-term warfare against a force of the USA and South Korea, let alone the rest of the West? My relatives in Korea and family in Canada have listened to this utter crap spoken for decades, and they have mainly been a tactic to force the UN to mobilize for more food aid and oil. Maybe NK is sick of being rejected despite all their attempts at threatening, and finally feel this is the only way to get global attention.


The only time they fought was in the korean war in the 50s with the backing from china and USSR they managed to nearly take the whole of Korea before nearly losing it all and eventually the current borders were reached at the end of the war. North Korea on their own cannot win vs the USA and south korea but they could kill thousands if not millions of people and theres always a chance China could jump in and they have a much better military than North Korea.


First off: China has no interest in military conflicts, they also have no chance against the US at present (and they know it).

NK might have a large military force, but they lack the logistics. They would never even be able to take Seoul (which is in reach of a good portion of their artillery) because they lack air dominance, and moving your troops through narrow chokepoints (landscape layout) under enemy fire is a bad idea. Also, it is doubtful they could even move 200.000 soldiers at once (or even millions) because they never actually attempted such a thing. Logistics would leave their frontline without ammunition after like, a day or so. Also, the SK military has done nothing else for more than 50 years, but improving their defensive capabilities against an invasion. This would be comparable to germany attacking the maginot-line in 1933 (in a fictional scenario of course).
Experts estimate that 50-80% of NKs artillery would be gone within a few days (assuming they use it and don't move it forward. If they move it, this will occur much faster) due to heavy airstrikes. It is also believed that the NK military does not have modern weaponry. They should have late cold war tech.

additionaly, there are heavily fortified bunkers in Greater Seoul that can protect around 20 million people. "millions" of deaths are extremely unlikely.
If they just attack civilian targets without any attempt to win or to survive the first 48 hrs, they could maybe kill 80.000 civilians. Since the largest minority in South Korea are chinese nationals, often party's-family-member, they'd be pissing off china which is not the best idea.
additionaly, it is quite safe to assume that they can not actually use nuclear missiles because they at present do not possess the technology to produce nuclear warheads that are small enough.

I am pretty sure they will not attack for at least 10 years except if the generals are suicidal AND heavily deluded.




China also has no interest in the US taking up even great presence in the pacific if the north did start a war and they are officially allies, but I agree its unlikely for china to get involved. As for seoul i dont see how people will get in the bunkers quick enough if the north just decides to completely flatten the city as its first move, and do we really know anything of their nuclear technology? Even a small range missle with nuclear capability could hit anywhere in south kroea they could have other WMDs aswell, if syria has chemical weapons im sure north korea has some.


they don't get in the bunkers quick enough, which is why up to 80.000 would be killed. Also, the artillery just reaches the northern part of seoul, and to flatten it, it is just not strong enough.
I have never heard of efficient chemical weapons. you might be able to kill a few tenthousand with them (which is not nice for the defender), but this does not influence the argumentation above, since the outcome would be the same. This is also true for nuclear weapons, since a retaliation strike from nato would burn NK to the ground.
People usually act rationally (at least from their perspective) there is no scenario in which NK has a remote chance of winning, so they'll not start.

If china does get invovled, i agree it won't be a "full" out war; but it will be a huge investment. Even a few AA defense system would do wonders for NK military advancement. Even if the extent of help is just a few troops + shit ton of equipment (which is a drop of water in reference to what China can afford), it'll make it that much harder for US and SK to advance; ultimately US+SK will prevail, the question is the cost. How much money? how many lives? how long?


this is true but still, this is not relevant. China likes the status quo and wants NK to stay put, so supplying AA upfront is unlikely. The number of dead US soldiers ( I find that funny, I can not recall any conflict ever, where the US lost more than a handfull of soldiers, maybe pre 1890?) or SK soldiers is not relevant for NK if they face extermination I think.
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-30 03:06:01
March 30 2013 03:04 GMT
#1204
This just in...

+ Show Spoiler +
Full war declaration statement from DPRK (via KCNA):

The moves of the U.S. imperialists to violate the sovereignty of the DPRK and encroach upon its supreme interests have entered an extremely grave phase. Under this situation, the dear respected Marshal Kim Jong Un, brilliant commander of Mt. Paektu, convened an urgent operation meeting on the performance of duty of the Strategic Rocket Force of the Korean People's Army for firepower strike and finally examined and ratified a plan for firepower strike.

The important decision made by him is the declaration of a do-or-die battle to provide an epochal occasion for putting an end to the history of the long-standing showdown with the U.S. and opening a new era. It is also a last warning of justice served to the U.S., south Korean group and other anti-reunification hostile forces. The decision reflects the strong will of the army and people of the DPRK to annihilate the enemies.

Now the heroic service personnel and all other people of the DPRK are full of surging anger at the U.S. imperialists' reckless war provocation moves, and the strong will to turn out as one in the death-defying battle with the enemies and achieve a final victory of the great war for national reunification true to the important decision made by Kim Jong Un.

The Supreme Command of the KPA in its previous statement solemnly declared at home and abroad the will of the army and people of the DPRK to take decisive military counteraction to defend the sovereignty of the country and the dignity of its supreme leadership as regards the war moves of the U.S. and south Korean puppets that have reached the most extreme phase.

Not content with letting B-52 make sorties into the sky over south Korea in succession despite the repeated warnings of the DPRK, the U.S. made B-2A stealth strategic bomber and other ultra-modern strategic strike means fly from the U.S. mainland to south Korea to stage a bombing drill targeting the DPRK. This is an unpardonable and heinous provocation and an open challenge.

By taking advantage of the U.S. reckless campaign for a nuclear war against the DPRK, the south Korean puppets vociferated about "preemptive attack" and "strong counteraction" and even "strike at the commanding forces", openly revealing the attempt to destroy monuments symbolic of the dignity of the DPRK's supreme leadership.

This clearly shows that the U.S. brigandish ambition for aggression and the puppets' attempt to invade the DPRK have gone beyond the limit and their threats have entered the reckless phase of an actual war from the phase of threat and blackmail.

The prevailing grim situation more clearly proves that the Supreme Command of the KPA was just when it made the judgment and decision to decisively settle accounts with the U.S. imperialists and south Korean puppets by dint of the arms of Songun, because time when words could work has passed.

Now they are openly claiming that the B-2A stealth strategic bombers' drill of dropping nuclear bombs was "not to irritate the north" but "the defensive one". The U.S. also says the drill is "to defend the interests of its ally". However, it is nothing but a lame pretext to cover up its aggressive nature, evade the denunciation at home and abroad and escape from the DPRK's retaliatory blows.

The era when the U.S. resorted to the policy of strength by brandishing nuclear weapons has gone.

It is the resolute answer of the DPRK and its steadfast stand to counter the nuclear blackmail of the U.S. imperialists with merciless nuclear attack and their war of aggression with just all-out war.

They should clearly know that in the era of Marshal Kim Jong Un, the greatest-ever commander, all things are different from what they used to be in the past.

The hostile forces will clearly realize the iron will, matchless grit and extraordinary mettle of the brilliant commander of Mt. Paektu that the earth cannot exist without Songun Korea.

Time has come to stage a do-or-die final battle.

The government, political parties and organizations of the DPRK solemnly declare as follows reflecting the final decision made by Kim Jong Un at the operation meeting of the KPA Supreme Command and the unanimous will of all service personnel and people of the DPRK who are waiting for a final order from him.

1.From this moment, the north-south relations will be put at the state of war and all the issues arousing between the north and the south will be dealt with according to the wartime regulations.

The state of neither peace nor war has ended on the Korean Peninsula.

Now that the revolutionary armed forces of the DPRK have entered into an actual military action, the inter-Korean relations have naturally entered the state of war. Accordingly, the DPRK will immediately punish any slightest provocation hurting its dignity and sovereignty with resolute and merciless physical actions without any prior notice.

2. If the U.S. and the south Korean puppet group perpetrate a military provocation for igniting a war against the DPRK in any area including the five islands in the West Sea of Korea or in the area along the Military Demarcation Line, it will not be limited to a local war, but develop into an all-out war, a nuclear war.

It is self-evident that any military conflict on the Korean Peninsula is bound to lead to an all-out war, a nuclear war now that even U.S. nuclear strategic bombers in its military bases in the Pacific including Hawaii and Guam and in its mainland are flying into the sky above south Korea to participate in the madcap DPRK-targeted nuclear war moves.

The first strike of the revolutionary armed forces of the DPRK will blow up the U.S. bases for aggression in its mainland and in the Pacific operational theatres including Hawaii and Guam and reduce not only its military bases in south Korea but the puppets' ruling institutions including Chongwadae and puppet army's bases to ashes at once, to say nothing of the aggressors and the provokers.

3. The DPRK will never miss the golden chance to win a final victory in a great war for national reunification.

This war will not be a three day-war but it will be a blitz war through which the KPA will occupy all areas of south Korea including Jeju Island at one strike, not giving the U.S. and the puppet warmongers time to come to their senses, and a three-dimensional war to be fought in the air, land and seas and on the front line and in the rear.

This sacred war of justice will be a nation-wide, all-people resistance involving all Koreans in the north and the south and overseas in which the traitors to the nation including heinous confrontation maniacs, warmongers and human scum will be mercilessly swept away.

No force on earth can break the will of the service personnel and people of the DPRK all out in the just great war for national reunification and of all other Koreans and overpower their might.

Holding in high esteem the peerlessly great men of Mt. Paektu, the Korean people will give vent to the pent-up grudge and realize their cherished desire and thus bring a bright day of national reunification and build the best power on this land without fail.


Taken from this blog: http://live.reuters.com/Event/North_Korea

This is pretty scary...

Edit: It just sounds so... fake when they say stuff like: "[...]Marshal Kim Jong Un, the greatest-ever commander[...]"
Draconicfire
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2562 Posts
March 30 2013 03:07 GMT
#1205
I don't even know if I should be taking these things seriously anymore..

Let's hope it's not to be taken seriously.
@Drayxs | Drayxs.221 | Drayxs#1802
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
March 30 2013 03:08 GMT
#1206
On March 30 2013 12:07 Draconicfire wrote:
I don't even know if I should be taking these things seriously anymore..

Let's hope it's not to be taken seriously.


Let's hope you are right.

As someone who is supposed to study 1 year in korea next year, these things just keep making my hopes of going there disappear...
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32742 Posts
March 30 2013 03:12 GMT
#1207
There'll Be No War, N.Korea Assures Chinese Tourists - Chosun Ilbo
This just adds to the idea that North Korea is using threats as a domestic tool rather than a serious one. North Korea does not want to damage their only ally in China.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
March 30 2013 03:14 GMT
#1208
On March 30 2013 12:12 PhoenixVoid wrote:
There'll Be No War, N.Korea Assures Chinese Tourists - Chosun Ilbo
This just adds to the idea that North Korea is using threats as a domestic tool rather than a serious one. North Korea does not want to damage their only ally in China.


Interesting... thanks for sharing :o
Blargh
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2103 Posts
March 30 2013 03:16 GMT
#1209
On March 30 2013 12:12 PhoenixVoid wrote:
There'll Be No War, N.Korea Assures Chinese Tourists - Chosun Ilbo
This just adds to the idea that North Korea is using threats as a domestic tool rather than a serious one. North Korea does not want to damage their only ally in China.

Yeah, I find it really hard to believe that anything will happen, especially considering China's current feelings towards war. We shall just have to see how far NK goes though!
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-30 03:52:40
March 30 2013 03:52 GMT
#1210
On March 30 2013 11:47 sephiria wrote:
The number of dead US soldiers ( I find that funny, I can not recall any conflict ever, where the US lost more than a handfull of soldiers, maybe pre 1890?) or SK soldiers is not relevant for NK if they face extermination I think.


Are you fucking kidding me? Try WWI and WWII
Combined US casualties of over 500,000...

dreaming of a sunny day
Seldentar
Profile Joined May 2011
United States888 Posts
March 30 2013 04:03 GMT
#1211
On March 30 2013 10:38 Larkin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2013 10:36 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is more saber rattling because NK has constantly said statements like this, yet never fell back on them. Despite all of Kim Jong-Un's Western education, he clearly has no idea how to negotiate through threats like his father did. This will only increase the threat of warfare which NK alone cannot sustain in the long-term, or will end with more threats being thrown.


It's been constant escalation though. That's what's worrying. Every statement is more severe, and this one seems like the worst of them all.

Unless it's just the greatest April Fool's prank in the history of mankind.


If so then Kim Jong Un is the greatest troll of all time
sephiria
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
106 Posts
March 30 2013 04:22 GMT
#1212
On March 30 2013 12:52 packrat386 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2013 11:47 sephiria wrote:
The number of dead US soldiers ( I find that funny, I can not recall any conflict ever, where the US lost more than a handfull of soldiers, maybe pre 1890?) or SK soldiers is not relevant for NK if they face extermination I think.


Are you fucking kidding me? Try WWI and WWII
Combined US casualties of over 500,000...



400.000 in WW2 or 0,32% of their population. Not what I'd call much for a (or THE) major power let alone the one that extensively fought in two theatres of the most brutal all out war that was ever fought. This is not a 'high' death ratio (especially because few other countrys that have fought have lost a lower %, I think Brazil and Denmark?
Sure, bad for the people that lost someone in the war, but in the grand scheme of things measured against the complete population of the US, it was not really costly in human lives and the US never fought a (for them) truly costly war.
Bayyne
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1967 Posts
March 30 2013 04:23 GMT
#1213
I'm supposed to be in Hawaii in roughly 3.5 weeks and these constant announcements (especially today's) makes me quite fearful.
Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
FantomX
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada247 Posts
March 30 2013 04:24 GMT
#1214
On March 30 2013 13:23 Bayyne wrote:
I'm supposed to be in Hawaii in roughly 3.5 weeks and these constant announcements (especially today's) makes me quite fearful.


Uh.. are you connecting through Hawaii on your way to Seoul? Not sure why you would be fearful.
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
March 30 2013 04:25 GMT
#1215
China needs to put a leash on NK, even in the UN they voted for sanctions. China doesn't want a war. If NK uses a nuke, the USA will respond with Nukes, that's our cold war policy and obama will stick with it.
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
March 30 2013 04:27 GMT
#1216
On March 30 2013 13:24 FantomX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2013 13:23 Bayyne wrote:
I'm supposed to be in Hawaii in roughly 3.5 weeks and these constant announcements (especially today's) makes me quite fearful.


Uh.. are you connecting through Hawaii on your way to Seoul? Not sure why you would be fearful.


NK said they had missiles aimed at Hawaii.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
March 30 2013 04:27 GMT
#1217
On March 30 2013 13:22 sephiria wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2013 12:52 packrat386 wrote:
On March 30 2013 11:47 sephiria wrote:
The number of dead US soldiers ( I find that funny, I can not recall any conflict ever, where the US lost more than a handfull of soldiers, maybe pre 1890?) or SK soldiers is not relevant for NK if they face extermination I think.


Are you fucking kidding me? Try WWI and WWII
Combined US casualties of over 500,000...



400.000 in WW2 or 0,32% of their population. Not what I'd call much for a (or THE) major power let alone the one that extensively fought in two theatres of the most brutal all out war that was ever fought. This is not a 'high' death ratio (especially because few other countrys that have fought have lost a lower %, I think Brazil and Denmark?
Sure, bad for the people that lost someone in the war, but in the grand scheme of things measured against the complete population of the US, it was not really costly in human lives and the US never fought a (for them) truly costly war.


Relating to population is stupid. Especially when you're considering 400,000 deaths as a "handful." Not to mention disrespectful.
SgtCoDFish
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom1520 Posts
March 30 2013 04:30 GMT
#1218
Hawaii is the only US territory North Korea could realistically hit with a nuke. The widest estimates have them being able to target Alaska too.

That said, if NK actually did nuke Hawaii (if they even have the nukes to do it), their government would be obliterated in a couple of months by the US and NATO. They're just bluffing, don't let the bullshit scare you because they don't pose a credible threat at the moment. The US believes there's more chance of the NK government collapsing on its own than of them attacking the US.
FantomX
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada247 Posts
March 30 2013 04:31 GMT
#1219
On March 30 2013 13:27 Essbee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2013 13:24 FantomX wrote:
On March 30 2013 13:23 Bayyne wrote:
I'm supposed to be in Hawaii in roughly 3.5 weeks and these constant announcements (especially today's) makes me quite fearful.


Uh.. are you connecting through Hawaii on your way to Seoul? Not sure why you would be fearful.


NK said they had missiles aimed at Hawaii.


Oh, well still I feel like the second they launched, the US would be well able to shoot them down before coming close.
screamingpalm
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1527 Posts
March 30 2013 04:33 GMT
#1220
On March 30 2013 13:23 Bayyne wrote:
I'm supposed to be in Hawaii in roughly 3.5 weeks and these constant announcements (especially today's) makes me quite fearful.


Good example of why NK leadership is smarter than given credit.

I predict they will be rewarded with some sort of aid in the end for calming down, and Obama will gain political points for averting a crisis.
MMT University is coming! http://www.mmtuniversity.org/
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