On November 24 2012 01:26 Qwyn wrote: Well, it is certainly understandable why Uganda would do that. I don't have a personal opinion on the matter, except to say that:
It is what it is. For much of history to be gay was akin to witchcraft or heresy...it was simply inconceivable. The idea of socially accepted, open homo-sexuality on a large scale is a radical concept...one that is almost purely modern.
The reaction of many people is thus, understandable. Regardless of my personal views on the subject, tolerance of homosexuality is becoming far more widespread, perpetuated by the liberal media, technology, social services...
Too many people are not considering the opposite side of the coin before they state their opinions. They do not consider that many people have deep religious beliefs that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and that homosexuality is considered an evil. Do you honestly expect that many of these religious believers would ACCEPT open, socially tolerated homosexuality? Of course not! It goes against a fundamental belief.
TL is largely populated by people with extremely left viewpoints. It gets almost sickening after awhile. Part of adopting a strong opinion on an issue is to consider all sides.
Which ultimately led me not to have a personal opinion.
Except to say that: it is what it is.
All these gosh-darn lefties with their beliefs that people should be equal! I demand that we consider treating certain segments of society as 2nd class citizens instead!
Unless you're white and/or rich. Then you gotta pay.
On November 24 2012 01:26 Qwyn wrote: Well, it is certainly understandable why Uganda would do that. I don't have a personal opinion on the matter, except to say that:
It is what it is. For much of history to be gay was akin to witchcraft or heresy...it was simply inconceivable. The idea of socially accepted, open homo-sexuality on a large scale is a radical concept...one that is almost purely modern.
The reaction of many people is thus, understandable. Regardless of my personal views on the subject, tolerance of homosexuality is becoming far more widespread, perpetuated by the liberal media, technology, social services...
Too many people are not considering the opposite side of the coin before they state their opinions. They do not consider that many people have deep religious beliefs that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and that homosexuality is considered an evil. Do you honestly expect that many of these religious believers would ACCEPT open, socially tolerated homosexuality? Of course not! It goes against a fundamental belief.
TL is largely populated by people with extremely left viewpoints. It gets almost sickening after awhile. Part of adopting a strong opinion on an issue is to consider all sides.
Which ultimately led me not to have a personal opinion.
Except to say that: it is what it is.
I am not extremely left because i don´t care about what religion ppl have, if they are gay or straight, black or white. I either like ppl or i dislike them because of their behavior and acting against others and me. You can´t call yourself "christian" if you don´t accept ppl like they are...
Wow, hard to keep track of the many discussions They should create sub-thread threads T_T
If I could just say; for all the interesting, dare I say titillating, argument going on here, there is one pertinent fact. People are going to be killed for a sexual preference that I'd like to think most people here at least tolerate. Actually they are already being killed, you may have realised. Would you be cool with your gay neighbour being dragged before a court, sentenced, and executed because he was also a school teacher? Because that's going to happen in Uganda.
So rather then conflating a rather straight-forward situation with real debate aimed at bettering the lot of the average human, sign a petition, keep the topic alive with everyone you know, at the very least make sure you know better when the same bullshit comes knocking at your door. Whatever you are comfortable with ... just know there is some crazy shit out there.
On November 23 2012 23:57 Destro wrote: the ignorance of some posters in this thread...
Well to be honest it isn't ignorance, it's just a fact that fundamentally it's possible for people to consider deviant sexuality as immoral because morality systems aren't perfect / concrete / universal. It's going to be an ongoing issue regardless of what gender / sexuality / moral maxims system you cohere to. For example, the fact that middle age and older males still find younger females sexually attractive and we end up with alot of marriages where a 40-50 year old male marries a young 18-24 year old female is extremely repulsive to me, yet it is coherent with heterosexuality and our biology.
would you be offended if the 18-24 year olds witht theyre grandpa hubbys had parades? gg wp liquidlahara
On November 24 2012 01:26 Qwyn wrote: Well, it is certainly understandable why Uganda would do that. I don't have a personal opinion on the matter, except to say that:
It is what it is. For much of history to be gay was akin to witchcraft or heresy...it was simply inconceivable. The idea of socially accepted, open homo-sexuality on a large scale is a radical concept...one that is almost purely modern.
The reaction of many people is thus, understandable. Regardless of my personal views on the subject, tolerance of homosexuality is becoming far more widespread, perpetuated by the liberal media, technology, social services...
Too many people are not considering the opposite side of the coin before they state their opinions. They do not consider that many people have deep religious beliefs that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and that homosexuality is considered an evil. Do you honestly expect that many of these religious believers would ACCEPT open, socially tolerated homosexuality? Of course not! It goes against a fundamental belief.
TL is largely populated by people with extremely left viewpoints. It gets almost sickening after awhile. Part of adopting a strong opinion on an issue is to consider all sides.
Which ultimately led me not to have a personal opinion.
Except to say that: it is what it is.
All these gosh-darn lefties with their beliefs that people should be equal! I demand that we consider treating certain segments of society as 2nd class citizens instead!
Seconded. WN fighting for "traditional families" and "traditional marriage" just like our almighty Lord and Savior intended.
Thirded. And who said our righteous religion is for love only? We can hate on other people just like everybody else.
On November 24 2012 01:26 Qwyn wrote: Well, it is certainly understandable why Uganda would do that. I don't have a personal opinion on the matter, except to say that:
It is what it is. For much of history to be gay was akin to witchcraft or heresy...it was simply inconceivable. The idea of socially accepted, open homo-sexuality on a large scale is a radical concept...one that is almost purely modern.
The reaction of many people is thus, understandable. Regardless of my personal views on the subject, tolerance of homosexuality is becoming far more widespread, perpetuated by the liberal media, technology, social services...
Too many people are not considering the opposite side of the coin before they state their opinions. They do not consider that many people have deep religious beliefs that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and that homosexuality is considered an evil. Do you honestly expect that many of these religious believers would ACCEPT open, socially tolerated homosexuality? Of course not! It goes against a fundamental belief.
TL is largely populated by people with extremely left viewpoints. It gets almost sickening after awhile. Part of adopting a strong opinion on an issue is to consider all sides.
Which ultimately led me not to have a personal opinion.
Except to say that: it is what it is.
All these gosh-darn lefties with their beliefs that people should be equal! I demand that we consider treating certain segments of society as 2nd class citizens instead!
Unless you're white and/or rich. Then you gotta pay.
I agree, life is really hard as a rich straight white man, it's so totally the same !
In my opinion this is just wrong. I am not homosexual myself but i believe it is a natural as it is even practiced among animal species, so why shouldn't we humans be allowed to be homosexual?
On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote: while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive...
I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this.
well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever.
And that is a problem that warrants banning them why ?
i neevr said it should be stopped. i personally dont see the use in them so i think people should stop doing these paardes especiall yif others get offended. celebrate your homosexuality in private. if they dont want to stop well then people wil just get offended and its just too bad. i never said anything about bannning the parades . l2r
liquidlahara
Homosexuals used to hide their sexuality.
People like you kept drafting their names on lists and publishing them in the newspaper so they would get fired.
Historic record shows that when homosexuals don't flaunt anything, they are still targetted.
lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade
But you're ignoring the positive things that come out of the parade. One of the major reasons for having it is to help other gay people come out and be proud of their orientation rather than live in shame from the social stigma associated with being gay in many countries, including first world countries. In general you should avoid offending people if possible, but what they're doing has very important positive consequences; it helps people escape from the psychological torment of suppressing their own sexuality. Clearly you shouldn't say that not offending extremely religious people is more important.
Secondly you have to draw the line at what should be considered offensive and what not...like what group of people do you want to respect and take seriously. Would you avoid offending neo-nazis by supporting democratic, non-racist policies? Would you avoid offending religious preachers by supporting the teaching of evolution in schools?
Now if you're talking specifically about Uganda, then you're offending a lot more people and that needs to be taken into account. In that case, just ask yourself objectively whether the striving towards a culture that accepts gays and teaches them that its okay to be whatever orientation they are is something which is more important than offending a group of hardcore Christians (and as pointed out in this thread, many of whom have been the target of ridiculous propaganda about the evilness of gays).
there is nothing about being gay ot take pride in just like i dont take pride in being hetero. either youre gay or youre not nothing to be proud of. its like saying ure proud to be a dude or poroud to be a girl
I am proud to be a man.. Many women are proud to be women. Women even have their own international day, the 8th of march. What's your point?
Gays are hardly the only "group" to celebrate having gained civil rights or recognition.
Actually yes. Almost every nation has it's independence day (or something like that).
Its just silly and sad how some people think about this. Like is has been said before in that thread, you cant choose who you are attracted to. And to those who claim that might comes because of all that gay parades and stuff, how do you explain that even ANIMALS are sometimes gay in nature? im pretty sure they didnt watch the last gay pride on tv.
Its really sad that in some countries the trend still goes worse and worse in that regards. i feel sorry to the people who live their, it has to be horrible for them to not being allowed to show who you are.
On November 24 2012 01:26 Qwyn wrote: Well, it is certainly understandable why Uganda would do that. I don't have a personal opinion on the matter, except to say that:
It is what it is. For much of history to be gay was akin to witchcraft or heresy...it was simply inconceivable. The idea of socially accepted, open homo-sexuality on a large scale is a radical concept...one that is almost purely modern.
The reaction of many people is thus, understandable. Regardless of my personal views on the subject, tolerance of homosexuality is becoming far more widespread, perpetuated by the liberal media, technology, social services...
Too many people are not considering the opposite side of the coin before they state their opinions. They do not consider that many people have deep religious beliefs that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and that homosexuality is considered an evil. Do you honestly expect that many of these religious believers would ACCEPT open, socially tolerated homosexuality? Of course not! It goes against a fundamental belief.
TL is largely populated by people with extremely left viewpoints. It gets almost sickening after awhile. Part of adopting a strong opinion on an issue is to consider all sides.
Which ultimately led me not to have a personal opinion.
Except to say that: it is what it is.
While I completely do not agree with the entirety of this post, allow me to refute the boldened points. Mind you, I'm not gay, nor leftwinged, so please take them objectively.
1. There's loads of evidence of gay relationships in history, only since the major religions took sway during the medieval times had it become a radical concept. It's neither one that's "almost purely modern", but rather one cemented in antiquity, and only now once again slowly breaking free.
2. Do you realize what you're saying? What if my deep religious belief would be .. say fasting, does this give me the right to blame, ostracize and condemn others for not doing so? It's a ridiculous notion to use a religious belief as a weight to throw around to judge others peoples lives and how they should live them. I say, live and let live.
User was banned for being generally awful and having a mod history a mile long. This post was bad enough that I took a look to see if it was typical of him, as it turned out it was the final straw.
On November 23 2012 23:22 Zandar wrote: Only one who can and should fix this before the bill gets accepted is the Pope. And Christians could mail him to push him to do that.
Pretty ironic for some people to be making the argument that sovereignty excludes people from other countries to act on one country's legislation, while others argue that religious sovereignty transcends national sovereignty and is free to influence one country's politics. I thought we've gone past that point and now base whether or not a cause is just on reason and rationalism.
Nope. We're still a pretty horrible species when it comes to people that aren't intelligent and well off.
The main reason for pushing this far, is religion again:
Quote from wiki:
Fundamentalist Christianity
In 2009, many news sources reported on Jeff Sharlet's investigation regarding ties between Museveni and the American fundamentalist Christian organization The Fellowship (also known as "The Family").[58][59] Sharlet reports that Douglas Coe, leader of The Fellowship, identified Museveni as the organization's "key man in Africa."[59] Further international scrutiny accompanied the 2009 Ugandan efforts to institute the death penalty for homosexuality, with leaders from Canada, the UK, the US, and France expressing concerns for human rights.[60][61] British newspaper The Guardian reported that President Museveni "appeared to add his backing" to the legislative effort by, among other things, claiming "European homosexuals are recruiting in Africa", and saying gay relationships were against God's will.[62] The 2009 effort for harsher penalties for homosexual behavior further strengthens existing laws criminalizing homosexuality.
I want to throw up ... man I hate relig..... damn.
On November 24 2012 01:26 Qwyn wrote: Well, it is certainly understandable why Uganda would do that. I don't have a personal opinion on the matter, except to say that:
It is what it is. For much of history to be gay was akin to witchcraft or heresy...it was simply inconceivable. The idea of socially accepted, open homo-sexuality on a large scale is a radical concept...one that is almost purely modern.
The reaction of many people is thus, understandable. Regardless of my personal views on the subject, tolerance of homosexuality is becoming far more widespread, perpetuated by the liberal media, technology, social services...
Too many people are not considering the opposite side of the coin before they state their opinions. They do not consider that many people have deep religious beliefs that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and that homosexuality is considered an evil. Do you honestly expect that many of these religious believers would ACCEPT open, socially tolerated homosexuality? Of course not! It goes against a fundamental belief.
TL is largely populated by people with extremely left viewpoints. It gets almost sickening after awhile. Part of adopting a strong opinion on an issue is to consider all sides.
Which ultimately led me not to have a personal opinion.
Except to say that: it is what it is.
I wonder if the south will enact some laws to chop off the left hands of people for whom it's dominant. Traditionally it's been viewed as the sign of the devil, right?
In 2009, many news sources reported on Jeff Sharlet's investigation regarding ties between Museveni and the American fundamentalist Christian organization The Fellowship (also known as "The Family").[58][59] Sharlet reports that Douglas Coe, leader of The Fellowship, identified Museveni as the organization's "key man in Africa."[59] Further international scrutiny accompanied the 2009 Ugandan efforts to institute the death penalty for homosexuality, with leaders from Canada, the UK, the US, and France expressing concerns for human rights.[60][61] British newspaper The Guardian reported that President Museveni "appeared to add his backing" to the legislative effort by, among other things, claiming "European homosexuals are recruiting in Africa", and saying gay relationships were against God's will.[62] The 2009 effort for harsher penalties for homosexual behavior further strengthens existing laws criminalizing homosexuality.
I want to throw up ... man I hate relig..... damn.
So you quote a snippet on FUNDAMENTALIST Christianity and that somehow equates with all religions? The glaring flaw in logic here ought to be easy to see, so I'm inclined to think you simply enjoy "hating" things. Have fun with that.
Regarding the discussion about gay parades, it's so easy for heterosexual people to dismiss homosexual people's needs when they have no benefits from them (same goes for any majority discriminating against the minority case). That being said, I do think gay parades should be made to look a bit less.. awkward. It kind of paints a bad image, so even many LGBT people find gay parades bad. The idea of visibility / spreading awareness is good, but the execution just disgusts a lot of people. But I'm not the one who's organizing them, so..
As for legal unacceptance of being LGBT, it's really sad that people are pretty much forced to move to more accepting countries to feel safe, and those who have no options of moving out, well, that's really terrible for them.
In 2009, many news sources reported on Jeff Sharlet's investigation regarding ties between Museveni and the American fundamentalist Christian organization The Fellowship (also known as "The Family").[58][59] Sharlet reports that Douglas Coe, leader of The Fellowship, identified Museveni as the organization's "key man in Africa."[59] Further international scrutiny accompanied the 2009 Ugandan efforts to institute the death penalty for homosexuality, with leaders from Canada, the UK, the US, and France expressing concerns for human rights.[60][61] British newspaper The Guardian reported that President Museveni "appeared to add his backing" to the legislative effort by, among other things, claiming "European homosexuals are recruiting in Africa", and saying gay relationships were against God's will.[62] The 2009 effort for harsher penalties for homosexual behavior further strengthens existing laws criminalizing homosexuality.
I want to throw up ... man I hate relig..... damn.
well well well... being gay is a choice and being fucking religious isn't? they better ask some gays whether they believe in satan or not before nuking the whole country to stop LGBT infestation
i always hated how people have to act out of religion and i always will and if they want to believe in god, they can. but they shouldn't think they have to transfer their believes on others
even if gays would choose to be gay... can't they?