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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On March 06 2016 06:16 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:
[quote]
Xenophobic != racist. I think that most people consider race to be based on location/ nationality, and xenophobia is a dislike of people from outside countries. Barring a slight semantics argument at best, they're basically the same... And they're certainly both under the umbrella term of bigotry. I think most of the people are just scared of people blindly following books with unreasonable demands. But people that are big about "social justice" loves them because more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them. What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched. The ignorance/dishonesty in this post is astounding. It should tell you all you need to know about how interested ErectedZenith is in dealing with reality.
You are just mad because I'm right.
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On March 06 2016 06:17 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:16 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
I think that most people consider race to be based on location/ nationality, and xenophobia is a dislike of people from outside countries. Barring a slight semantics argument at best, they're basically the same... And they're certainly both under the umbrella term of bigotry. I think most of the people are just scared of people blindly following books with unreasonable demands. But people that are big about "social justice" loves them because more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them. What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched. The ignorance/dishonesty in this post is astounding. It should tell you all you need to know about how interested ErectedZenith is in dealing with reality. You are just mad because I'm right.
Pretty sure the only emotion you cause people to have is disappointment.
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On March 06 2016 06:17 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:16 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
I think that most people consider race to be based on location/ nationality, and xenophobia is a dislike of people from outside countries. Barring a slight semantics argument at best, they're basically the same... And they're certainly both under the umbrella term of bigotry. I think most of the people are just scared of people blindly following books with unreasonable demands. But people that are big about "social justice" loves them because more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them. What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched. The ignorance/dishonesty in this post is astounding. It should tell you all you need to know about how interested ErectedZenith is in dealing with reality. You are just mad because I'm right.
Not even close. You're offensively wrong actually.
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On March 06 2016 06:17 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:16 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
I think that most people consider race to be based on location/ nationality, and xenophobia is a dislike of people from outside countries. Barring a slight semantics argument at best, they're basically the same... And they're certainly both under the umbrella term of bigotry. I think most of the people are just scared of people blindly following books with unreasonable demands. But people that are big about "social justice" loves them because more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them. What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched. The ignorance/dishonesty in this post is astounding. It should tell you all you need to know about how interested ErectedZenith is in dealing with reality. You are just mad because I'm right.
You're factually wrong on institutional racism not targeting blacks, and you're factually wrong on the wage gap not existing after taking into about sector/hrs/jobs. You simply have no idea of what you're talking about.
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Okay, cool, I see this has stopped being a discussion thread.
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On March 06 2016 06:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Okay, cool, I see this has stopped being a discussion thread.
When we have people claiming the racism doesn't exist for black people, but Asians face racism, you just have to accept all discussion is over.
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On March 06 2016 06:19 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:16 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:35 ErectedZenith wrote:
[quote]
I think most of the people are just scared of people blindly following books with unreasonable demands.
But people that are big about "social justice" loves them because more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them. What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched. The ignorance/dishonesty in this post is astounding. It should tell you all you need to know about how interested ErectedZenith is in dealing with reality. You are just mad because I'm right. You're factually wrong on institutional racism not targeting blacks, and you're factually wrong on the wage gap not existing after taking into about sector/hrs/jobs. You simply have no idea of what you're talking about.
No, I'm absolutely right and you know it but is plain embarrassed to admit it.
On March 06 2016 06:19 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:16 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:35 ErectedZenith wrote:
[quote]
I think most of the people are just scared of people blindly following books with unreasonable demands.
But people that are big about "social justice" loves them because more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them. What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched. The ignorance/dishonesty in this post is astounding. It should tell you all you need to know about how interested ErectedZenith is in dealing with reality. You are just mad because I'm right. Not even close. You're offensively wrong actually.
Being offended does not make you right.
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On March 06 2016 06:23 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:19 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:16 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched. The ignorance/dishonesty in this post is astounding. It should tell you all you need to know about how interested ErectedZenith is in dealing with reality. You are just mad because I'm right. You're factually wrong on institutional racism not targeting blacks, and you're factually wrong on the wage gap not existing after taking into about sector/hrs/jobs. You simply have no idea of what you're talking about. No, I'm absolutely right and you know it but is plain embarrassed to admit it.
No you don't get to wave away all systemic racism because you said it doesn't exist. You don't get to paint all of BLM with whatever violence you're referring to and be taken with any seriousness.
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On March 06 2016 06:23 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:19 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:16 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched. The ignorance/dishonesty in this post is astounding. It should tell you all you need to know about how interested ErectedZenith is in dealing with reality. You are just mad because I'm right. You're factually wrong on institutional racism not targeting blacks, and you're factually wrong on the wage gap not existing after taking into about sector/hrs/jobs. You simply have no idea of what you're talking about. No, I'm absolutely right and you know it but is plain embarrassed to admit it.
Are we in fucking 6th grade now?
All you are saying is, "Nuh uh, you know I'm right!".
Are we supposed to take this seriously?
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On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:
[quote]
Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front.
edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist. I think that most people consider race to be based on location/ nationality, and xenophobia is a dislike of people from outside countries. Barring a slight semantics argument at best, they're basically the same... And they're certainly both under the umbrella term of bigotry. I think most of the people are just scared of people blindly following books with unreasonable demands. But people that are big about "social justice" loves them because more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them. What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched.
The motives of self-interest among regressive leftists in academia and professional "SJWs" are definitely strong. They have to perpetuate their own relevance for the sake of their careers and create spaces where the ideology can lead to profit.
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On March 06 2016 06:24 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:23 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:19 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:16 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:
[quote]
If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched. The ignorance/dishonesty in this post is astounding. It should tell you all you need to know about how interested ErectedZenith is in dealing with reality. You are just mad because I'm right. You're factually wrong on institutional racism not targeting blacks, and you're factually wrong on the wage gap not existing after taking into about sector/hrs/jobs. You simply have no idea of what you're talking about. No, I'm absolutely right and you know it but is plain embarrassed to admit it. Are we in fucking 6th grade now? All you are saying is, "Nuh uh, you know I'm right!". Are we supposed to take this seriously?
Tell that to GH, and KZ they are the ones that starts pointing fingers.
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On March 06 2016 06:25 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:
[quote]
Xenophobic != racist. I think that most people consider race to be based on location/ nationality, and xenophobia is a dislike of people from outside countries. Barring a slight semantics argument at best, they're basically the same... And they're certainly both under the umbrella term of bigotry. I think most of the people are just scared of people blindly following books with unreasonable demands. But people that are big about "social justice" loves them because more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them. What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched. The motives of self-interest among regressive leftists in academia and professional "SJWs" are definitely strong. They have to perpetuate their own relevance for the sake of their careers and create spaces where the ideology can lead to profit.
Yeah, totally just getting our constitutional rights violated regularly for our own self interests... If people spent a fraction of the time dealing with racism as they did complaining about getting called out for it the shit would be resolved.
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On March 06 2016 06:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Okay, cool, I see this has stopped being a discussion thread. When we have people claiming the racism doesn't exist for black people, but Asians face racism, you just have to accept all discussion is over.
More like what happens when 5 individuals decided to talk over one another.
His point is roughly correct, in that if you look at individual metrics for places like companies or universities, then the biases aren't nearly as large as people say it is (with variances on where you are, of course).
When referring to cradle to grave, which I expect people like you are, then the systemic issues are far more pronounced.
And then, of course, people like GreenHorizon who jump in talking about constitutional violations...
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On March 06 2016 05:23 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 04:49 Acrofales wrote:
Is ISIS a problem? Absolutely. And a very real aspect of it is its religious philosophy, which needs to be dealt with. But equating ISIS to all muslims is about as useful to equating the westboro baptists to all Christians. Nobody makes that equivalence. It's a self-serving strawman. Rather, there are problems in the Muslim world, and ISIS represents the combination of just about all the worst of those problems at once. Comparing the WBC to ISIS would be a fair analogy if the WBC did anything besides hold up signs calling soldiers "faggots" which is so common on the internet that I could probably use that fact to paint the WBC as an Xbox Live rather than religious problem and you would lap it up. Radical Islam has a near-monopoly in being the root cause or a factor of terrorism worldwide.
I think a large part of that can be attributed to the way that similar acts from radical Christians or Jews are performed as the acts of nations, such as some of Israel's actions with regards to Palestine, or the US drone bombings that have some Pakistani kids scared of blue skies. Support for drone strikes correlates noticeably with belief that the US is fundamentally a Christian nation (we're not) or support for making Christianity the national religion of the US.
Implicitly, radical Christians who want to go to war with Islam and exterminate Islam don't have to take independent action that can be labeled as terrorism, because they've got the government doing it for them. Of course, the government could be doing more of it. Thus Donald Trump winning primaries after saying that he'd target the families of terrorists, or Ted Cruz saying that the US shouldn't obey the rules of engagement or talking about bombing ISIS until the sand glows in the dark. By the way, that last bit, the glowing sand? That obliquely references the common but incorrect belief that radioactive sand glows in the dark.
Basically, while terrorists acts are horrendous and reprehensible, they're the natural result of asymmetric warfare. The US is killing civilians. The people of the nations we're targeting are killing civilians. Because the US is in a position of strength, our kills, such as bombing a Doctors Without Borders hospital are labeled things like "tragic errors" or "collateral damage" and the other side's kills are labeled "terrorism."
To be very clear, I am not defending or justifying the attacks listed on the linked wikipedia article. I am saying that in many ways, government actions of non-Muslims-majority nations against Muslim-majority nations are comparably bad, but whitewashed because they're government actions.
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On March 06 2016 06:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:
[quote]
Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front.
edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist. I think that most people consider race to be based on location/ nationality, and xenophobia is a dislike of people from outside countries. Barring a slight semantics argument at best, they're basically the same... And they're certainly both under the umbrella term of bigotry. I think most of the people are just scared of people blindly following books with unreasonable demands. But people that are big about "social justice" loves them because more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them. What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Quite frankly, "purity of motive" is not something to be proud of. That's called zealotry, and causes as many problems as anything they're claiming to fight against.
In the social justice context, purity of motive merely refers to a person's sincerity in discussing an issue, rather than the person bringing it up for opportunism. For example, I'd say that Bernie Sanders's civil rights activism was because he sincerely wanted to see justice and equality for a group of people- he was expressing purity of motive- rather than him doing it because it would put money in his pocket (or for some other insincere reason). Purity of motive is what we hope every activist or impassioned person has- that they're doing something for the "right reasons".
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On March 06 2016 06:29 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:22 Plansix wrote:On March 06 2016 06:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Okay, cool, I see this has stopped being a discussion thread. When we have people claiming the racism doesn't exist for black people, but Asians face racism, you just have to accept all discussion is over. More like what happens when 5 individuals decided to talk over one another. His point is roughly correct, in that if you look at individual metrics for places like companies or universities, then the biases aren't nearly as large as people say it is (with variances on where you are, of course). When referring to cradle to grave, which I expect people like you are, then the systemic issues are far more pronounced. And then, of course, people like GreenHorizon who jump in talking about constitutional violations...
Yeah they have been identified at every department that has been investigated, you want to just pretend like it doesn't happen?
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On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 04:21 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 03:56 kwizach wrote:
[quote]
Such an assertion is not part of my original post explaining why the right is responsible for Trump's rise, so try again. He is clearly sexist though, and has made more than enough statements with heavily racist/xenophobic undertones (and more than that) to justify criticizing him on that front.
edit: also, notice how wei2coolman is carefully ignoring my two replies to him in which I cite polls showing Trump has more racist and bigoted supporters than the other candidates. Predictable. Xenophobic != racist. I think that most people consider race to be based on location/ nationality, and xenophobia is a dislike of people from outside countries. Barring a slight semantics argument at best, they're basically the same... And they're certainly both under the umbrella term of bigotry. I think most of the people are just scared of people blindly following books with unreasonable demands. But people that are big about "social justice" loves them because more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them. What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that.
Affirmative action would hurt Asians when it comes to college applications, but other minorities (especially blacks) also suffer from institutionalized racism and bigotry on a daily basis. They're not dichotomous.
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On March 06 2016 06:31 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:29 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 06 2016 06:22 Plansix wrote:On March 06 2016 06:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Okay, cool, I see this has stopped being a discussion thread. When we have people claiming the racism doesn't exist for black people, but Asians face racism, you just have to accept all discussion is over. More like what happens when 5 individuals decided to talk over one another. His point is roughly correct, in that if you look at individual metrics for places like companies or universities, then the biases aren't nearly as large as people say it is (with variances on where you are, of course). When referring to cradle to grave, which I expect people like you are, then the systemic issues are far more pronounced. And then, of course, people like GreenHorizon who jump in talking about constitutional violations... Yeah they have been identified at every department that has been investigated, you want to just pretend like it doesn't happen?
Because they haven't been identified at every departments.
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On March 06 2016 06:23 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2016 06:19 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:16 kwizach wrote:On March 06 2016 06:08 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 06:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:38 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 06 2016 05:17 ErectedZenith wrote:On March 06 2016 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
What's wrong with being an advocate for social justice? You make it sound like people who want equal and fair treatment for everyone are secretly hoping for the opposite. If their business model relies on having distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear, then absolutely. Their "business model"? That's a very cynical way of approaching people who are legitimately trying to make the world a better place. That's like saying that tutors don't want to actually help educate students- and in fact, will try to make them dumber- because that way, the tutors won't become obsolete and unemployed. It's partially paradoxical from a self-interest perspective, but it's not a matter of financial gain. Civil rights activists, much like educators, are pursuing their passion and vocation and expressing a purity of motive (barring the occasional nutjob or extremist that exists with any group of people). MLK Jr. wasn't fighting for civil rights because he was secretly in cahoots with screwing over blacks and profiting off it. You can also look at the kinds of people who are successful (financially, politically, etc.) by spreading messages of fear and hate. Donald Trump, for example, is pretty much the opposite of a sincere advocate for social justice, and his message is all about "distrust among people so they can make money from people's fear" and "more diversity = more problems among people = more business for them". Call it cynical but that's what a lot of people are doing these days. And if they can get away with it, then good for them to figure out a way to make money out of people's fear. Difference between Donald Trump's message on figuring out what the fuck is going on in the middle east before doing any extreme importation is actually based upon evidence that it is indeed a clusterfuck in the middle east and it probably isn't a smart idea to even think to take an action that might pollute USA. While there are plenty of people like BLM that says institutionalized racism for blacks exist while there are affirmative action for them or feminists freaks who yells about wage gap without studying how economics work.But I view them the same light as I view the hardcore religious folks. Somehow all these groups have figured a way to make money out of irrational fears. First of all, institutionalized racism does exist, and the wage gap does exist. At least, in the United States they do. Second, there is a big difference between social justice warriors going over the top and opportunists hoping that prejudice is perpetuated so that they can benefit financially. You were claiming that the latter occurs regularly, whereas at least SJWs have a purity of motive. Yeah institutional racism exists but not for black people. Its for Asians that have to get higher GPA than blacks to go into the same program/school. But ain't nobody protesting about that. Not for BLM, these people are violent as fuck. And wage gap only exists if you add up the income of both male and female and count it that way instead of dividing it up by sector/hrs/jobs. But ofc in that case women will make less money because most of them need to take care of their kids instead of working. So wage gap exists in a complete fair fashion. Nothing to protest there. The people protesting these things are either trolls that wants sane people to explain these concepts or they are in this for the money because many of these things can be easily researched. The ignorance/dishonesty in this post is astounding. It should tell you all you need to know about how interested ErectedZenith is in dealing with reality. You are just mad because I'm right. You're factually wrong on institutional racism not targeting blacks, and you're factually wrong on the wage gap not existing after taking into about sector/hrs/jobs. You simply have no idea of what you're talking about. No, I'm absolutely right and you know it but is plain embarrassed to admit it.
You are embarrassing yourself. Institutional racism is real, and is well documented in countless scientific studies. Open Google Scholar and go educate yourself if you're that uninformed. A few examples among the first hits: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5.
The same is true of the wage gap after controlling for several variables. First of all, studies have shown that overall there remains a pay gap between men and women for the same jobs, even taking into account various factors like the number of hours worked, the qualifications, etc. (see for example the Invest in women, invest in America - A Comprehensive Review of Women In the U.S. Economy report by the U.S. Congress' Joint Economic Committee). A difference remains, some of which is attributable to gender discrimination (for example in the hiring process). And with regards to STEM jobs specifically, here's another study which shows gender pay disparity in STEM jobs even after controlling for hours, age, experience, education, etc.
Second, the existence of statistical differences in occupations between men and women is not at all an argument against the idea that there are differences in earnings between the two that need to be addressed. The point is precisely that social norms and representations about both genders still permeate our societies and contribute to the choices made by individuals with regards to their studies and careers. The pay gap is therefore very real, and it needs to be addressed by targeting both gender discrimination at (and to access) work and the cultural factors that play a role in the professional trajectories of men and women.
To admins: isn't declaring that institutional racism affecting African-Americans doesn't exist a bannable offense? Seriously, this is getting beyond ridiculous.
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EPT
