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Is Algebra Necessary? - Page 14

Forum Index > General Forum
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Evangelist
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
1246 Posts
July 29 2012 10:42 GMT
#261
You need algebra if you want to study mathematics, physics, chemistry or biology. You also need it for any engineering or scientific discipline and computer programming. It is also useful in any financial career.

Basically anything that makes you money, really. Learn it you lazy bastards.
sparC
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany162 Posts
July 29 2012 10:44 GMT
#262
wow, this article made me facepalm so many times..
i couldn't help but feeling an agenda behind it..
well i guess, after evolution, it's math's (okay algebra's) turn now..
what's next? physics?
musclemagician
Profile Joined May 2011
United States20 Posts
July 29 2012 10:48 GMT
#263
As a high school student this makes me incredibly sad :/ math is probably one of my favourite subjects, and algebra is honestly very easy. For people to start to argue that algebra is not used by most people, so we should not learn it is completely stupid. I suppose then all our education system should teach us is basic grammar and math, since most of us wont be using history daily, algebra daily, or the works of shakespear daily. No need for science either, most people dont need that daily.
musclemagician would you please cast us a spell?
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
July 29 2012 10:49 GMT
#264
Personally I excelled in algebra (best in class) but failed miserably in trigonometry (one of the worst in class). Algebra was like puzzles to me so I enjoyed it lol. And I use the past tense because it is utterly useless in the vast majority of fields.
Groog
Profile Joined July 2010
127 Posts
July 29 2012 11:00 GMT
#265
On July 29 2012 19:27 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2012 19:10 Groog wrote:
Using the part of the brain where logic comes from trains that part of the brain. There is no other way to train logical thinking besides mathematics and philosophy. No other mental activity accesses the parts of the brain where that kind of abstract thinking is required.


point me to credible studies where learning elementary algebra has lead to measurable increases in a person's logic and reasoning abilities that helped contribute to their success later on in their life regardless of career path. also we're talking about algebra. do not generalize this into mathematics in general.



I'm not going to spend my free time looking for an article that might or might not exist. It is common knowledge and if you had any basic knowledge of neurology you would know that continuously stimulating a certain part of the brain leads to an increase of neural pathways in that area of the brain (while it's still in developement, ofc. i.e. <21years).

So, once you've learned basic calculus, you have to move over to algebra to continue this stimuli, because learning advanced calculus is really pointless unless it's part of your future career.
tuestresfat
Profile Joined December 2010
2555 Posts
July 29 2012 11:01 GMT
#266
The amount of logical fallacies in this article is too damn high.
JoeSchmoe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2058 Posts
July 29 2012 11:03 GMT
#267
On July 29 2012 19:40 Toxi78 wrote:
and in what world am i gonig to use litterature, history, geography when i work?
i fucking know how to spell and write, i know my birthdate and who is the president, and i can find my house ezpz with my GPS.
with this kind of reasoning we're not going to go very far.
whoever wrote this article is an idiot.


the redundancy of algebra is just an opinion of the author, it could be any subject yet people place so emphasis on this fact. it's hard to argue against the bias of the considerable majority of TLers here that come from a scientific/mathematic background but the more important issue lies with the linearity of our education system. There should be an option that allows you to focus on fields pertaining to your interest at a much younger age. of course there will be students who are unsure about their future in which they are encouraged to dip their hands in various fields much like what we have today. honestly, there's a ton of shit from high school that either I've completely forgotten or never given a second thought to and yet our people will insist that it has helped subconsciously without us realizing. has it? maybe. do i think so? no, i think my time would've been better invested in developing my interests but that's just me.
Sethronu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United Kingdom450 Posts
July 29 2012 11:03 GMT
#268
It amazes me how many people make sweeping comments like, "oh high school algebra is ez only stupid people fail it." Just because it was easy to YOU doesn't mean it's easy to everyone, and just because someone fails high school or any other algebra courses doesn't mean they are 'stupid'. There is no correlation whatsoever between being able to do whatever math exercises and a person's general intelligence; and the biggest point of this article (one that I can't help but agree with), is that tons of people who could potentially become great artists, sociologists, doctors, or what have you, were denied that opportunity by the fact that they are required to excel at maths to be able to study a discipline which is completely unrelated to mathematics yet still has high math scores as a requirement.
Tom Cruise
Profile Joined July 2012
Denmark482 Posts
July 29 2012 11:10 GMT
#269
On July 29 2012 19:36 PatouPower wrote:
Seriously, we are talking about algebra: the most basic thing in math and probably the most useful in daily life. We are not talking about Calculus here, only about something really basic and easy to learn. I mean, math is probably the hardest obligatory class in high school and it's still really easy to pass, so if you can't even pass that, maybe you don't deserve a diploma in the first place.


it puzzles me that when we're talking about education, how the majority in this thread seem to neglect the fact that not everyone are necessarily very receptive in relation to mathematics, and by that assume the subject is more important than other subjects, simply by defining it through its level of difficulty.

in highschool i failed math. now i'm in college and quite honestly, i still don't get it. though i still get b+/- in every other subject (chinese, cultural understanding, managerial economics, marketing communication, innovation, psychology, philosophy, business law, social studies and contemporary history, just to name a few) now, if u ask me, i'm pretty fucking ok with failing math considering how well i do in every other subject, lol

now, u might ask urself "how come ur so fucking bad at math, tom cruise", well, truth is i don't give two flying fucks about it, because i find it boring and uninteresting. that of course is a stance that i've taken after i failed, so atleast i've tried, and quite honestly, i wish i had spent half as many hours on doing something else than attempting to learn mathematics, cuz holy shit that was a waste of time (considering i never learned anything) -- not because it's "useless" but i suppose it's because it wouldn't be "cost effecient" (lolz) compared to what i want to become when i grow up, and how much fun i have with the other subjects. ty

Loanshark
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
China3094 Posts
July 29 2012 11:10 GMT
#270
In my opinion, if someone doesn't possess the intelligence or willpower to at least pass an introductory mathematics course, then that someone probably won't get very much out of education at all, no matter how good it is.

You don't have to like it. You don't have to excel or be proficient at it. You just have to pass.
No dough, no go. And no mercy.
JoeSchmoe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2058 Posts
July 29 2012 11:16 GMT
#271
On July 29 2012 20:00 Groog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2012 19:27 JoeSchmoe wrote:
On July 29 2012 19:10 Groog wrote:
Using the part of the brain where logic comes from trains that part of the brain. There is no other way to train logical thinking besides mathematics and philosophy. No other mental activity accesses the parts of the brain where that kind of abstract thinking is required.


point me to credible studies where learning elementary algebra has lead to measurable increases in a person's logic and reasoning abilities that helped contribute to their success later on in their life regardless of career path. also we're talking about algebra. do not generalize this into mathematics in general.



I'm not going to spend my free time looking for an article that might or might not exist. It is common knowledge and if you had any basic knowledge of neurology you would know that continuously stimulating a certain part of the brain leads to an increase of neural pathways in that area of the brain (while it's still in developement, ofc. i.e. <21years).


Not sure if a person who can't distinguish between neurology and neuropsychology/neurophysiology should be educating anyone on what is common knowledge.
b3n3tt3
Profile Joined January 2012
595 Posts
July 29 2012 11:17 GMT
#272
Lol they're americans, of course algebra is hard

User was temp banned for this post.
erazerr
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia86 Posts
July 29 2012 11:17 GMT
#273
Algebra helps your brain to learn, even if algebra itself isn't necessary.
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
July 29 2012 11:19 GMT
#274
On July 29 2012 20:17 erazerr wrote:
Algebra helps your brain to learn, even if algebra itself isn't necessary.

This line has probably been repeated around 20 times in this thread. No one has provided any evidence or source for this claim.
Deadlyhazard
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1177 Posts
July 29 2012 11:19 GMT
#275
It was certainly useless for me, as someone who got into an design (art) major. I failed college algebra 3 times before finally passing it with a C. I forget everything I was taught in those attempts because I hated every minute of it. I don't think it should be required for everyone -- it should be something that is optional for most people and only required for math/sci majors.
Hark!
Nacl(Draq)
Profile Joined February 2011
United States302 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-29 11:29:05
July 29 2012 11:20 GMT
#276
If we turn this around and say, "Do people need to learn how to write?" There are a lot of jobs that don't require writing. Hell some don't even require reading. Instead of people spending time learning how to read or write they could be spending it learning how to cook amazing food or drawing amazing art or painting or becoming professional athletes. Before you say, "you need to be able to write to make a menu..." You can pay other people to do that... Same as you can pay other people to do your taxes.

Algebra applies to everyday situations, 1+1=2 is basic algebra. x-1=1
I don't want to have to be in a situation where the cashier at a grocery store hands me incorrect cash and says something like, "oh... the machine doesn't say how much i should give you anymore... Do you have a calculator?" Or having someone try and figure out how to split 30 dollars among 12 people.

Why do we force art on kids? Why do we force keyboard classes. Why do we force gym on people? Why do most countries teach kids about safe sex, condoms, birth control, how babies are made. Those don't apply to everyone. I'm sure kids will learn about that stuff if they're really interested in it. (Some people want to grow up to be priests and won't have sex.)
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
July 29 2012 11:22 GMT
#277
On July 29 2012 20:17 b3n3tt3 wrote:
Lol they're americans, of course algebra is hard

why so bad-mannered?

Maybe it's my bias in thinking that algebra isn't very difficult, but I'm not even particularly "good at math" in general. Mathematics encompasses a variety of fields of which algebra is only one, but overall I'm not particularly good at it and to be fair, rudimentary algebra is definitely not a very advanced field.

It can be very useful for very simple tasks and deciding to removing it from the curriculum would not only leave students with a lack of mathematical training, it could leave them with a lack of life skills...and very simple ones at that. It definitely says more about the system than about the students or the material, I feel.
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-29 11:30:14
July 29 2012 11:24 GMT
#278
You can't even start physics and chemistry or advanced biology without algebra. Do you expect young people to be attracted to these things if they don't even finish algebra?

But this is typical idiotic American educational thinking: If our students are failing because of a standard, rather than try to better our educational methods and teaching, let's just make it super easy on the students and pass them anyway. Who cares if they learned anything in school? Our passing rates are up!

It's terrible. It's a disgusting disservice that we're doing to our children. Getting an education is actually supposed to mean something. By lowering the standards you aren't making education easier on students, you are simply reducing what "education" means.

The real thing that's important to day-to-day life is understanding rates of change. That's Calculus. Everything about our math education is a stepping stone to get average people to learn Calculus, as it is one of the most powerful tools we have in almost everything we do. So yes, we need Algebra because we want as many people to understand Calculus as possible.
Crushinator
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands2138 Posts
July 29 2012 11:24 GMT
#279
I geuss I largely agree with the general points of the article, but algebra is so elementary it should be taught at least at basic level to almost everyone. Not everyone needs to be proficient at it, but atleast a basic understanding is important. You can offer various difficulty levels to people, and they can choose based on their talents and what they want to do in university, everyone should atleast have SOME math education though.
SnipedSoul
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2158 Posts
July 29 2012 11:28 GMT
#280
Some subjects are hard. Getting rid of hard subjects in school is going to screw over kids once they get into the real world and find out that they aren't going to be handed everything on a silver platter anymore.

Expecting universities to teach everything is kinda dumb, imo. University is for advanced education, not basic algebra.
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