EPTGay Scout Resolution - Page 2
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PassionFruit
294 Posts
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:38 Sofestafont wrote: Also don't allow atheists I believe. Incorrect, i am openly agnostic, which matters in my area, and i was allowed in. My atheist friend made eagle scout. The only rule boy scouts has aginest atheists is that you must believe in a higher power of some kind to receive the rank of eagle scout, the highest rank in boy scouts. All you have to do is say you believe in a higher power. (i.e. you can say yes, and think of the laws of psychics or whatever) You just say yes and move on, they don't interrogate you about it (or should not at least). Edit: Also, a lot of the scouts i have talked too just apply dadt resumes on it, as if its not confirmed bsa can't do anything about it, and some of the troops i have talked to just ignore it, as long as council officials don't find out, its fine. The highest ranks of adult leadership of boyscouting tend to be highly conservative, but people lower on the chain have been dancing around them for awhile. The troop i was in had a openly gay scout, and we didn't kick him out, as long as he kept of councils radar, we were fine with it. Not all boyscouts are like the senior adult leaders, and neither are all of the younger adult leaders. All of my arguments are based on my troop and council which does not quit follow official bsa policy, so my argument is for the troop and council i was a part of, not scouting on a national level. If you are not from my troop and council, ignore my arguments, we have never really been as bigoted as we were supposed to be. I am not going to put this in all of my posts, but I am hoping that by putting it in the first one i can make this clear and still get to bed on time. | ||
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Selkie
United States530 Posts
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:43 PassionFruit wrote: They're a private organization. So my opinion on the matter is pretty irrelevant. I respect people's rights to organize for whatever purpose, even if it is discriminatory or opposed to my own values. I think the BSA should allow it. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the BSA should do it. It's all up to the BSA members and their own beliefs whether or not to follow through. Not me. Not you. Not Obama. Just them. This is my opinion too, but they do recieve federal funding so I have to be opposed to the ban. It's gays or the pay, BSA. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46484 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:48 Jaaaaasper wrote: Incorrect, i am openly agnostic, which matters in my area, and i was allowed in. My atheist friend made eagle scout. The only rule boy scouts has aginest atheists is that you must believe in a higher power of some kind to receive the rank of eagle scout, the highest rank in boy scouts. All you have to do is say you believe in a higher power. (i.e. you can say yes, and think of the laws of psychics or whatever) You just say yes and move on, they don't interrogate you about it (or should not at least). Made me chuckle. Also, you're incorrect, as you yourself pointed out (and was previously cited earlier). If you refuse to believe in a higher power, then obviously you can't receive certain ranks. And that's totally their decision to make, but obviously it's discriminatory against certain atheists and agnostics. Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies#Position_on_atheists_and_agnostics | ||
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iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:42 SpunXtainz wrote: I think it is a dangerous step. Apart from some of the other points raised here, scouts is supposed to be a masculine pasttime, where men prepare themselves for life. Allowing a feminine person to lead them... Oh you. Just because someone is gay doesn't make them feminine at all. The truth is, you wouldn't be able to tell most gay men from straight men from the way they act because most gay men aren't flamboyant at all. | ||
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b0mBerMan
Japan289 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:36 ThePiedPiper wrote: As long as no raping occurs, im fine with anything. Second that stuff occurs, kick them out this is really your reply? | ||
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ObliviousNA
United States535 Posts
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Leeto
United States1320 Posts
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logikly
United States329 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: No homosexuals, atheists/ agnostics/ and no girls: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies BSA for the win. EDIT: Any identity can be a Girl Scout- even boys. Not everything you read on the internet is true. They do allow girls. That much I know for a fact, I've met a girl who was in a division of Boy Scouts before. edit: And I am a Boy Scout myself. | ||
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Introvert
United States5029 Posts
EDIT: but I will say, the local leaders are the PRIMARY authority for joining. I personally heard my scoutmasters support the idea of gays in the BSA; there is no strict rule keeping done. | ||
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IrOnKaL
United States340 Posts
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Archas
United States6531 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:36 ThePiedPiper wrote: As long as no raping occurs, im fine with anything. Second that stuff occurs, kick them out Are you fuckin' kidding me? Homosexuality is nothing at all like malicious pedophilia, so why the hell are you making a connection between the two? And phrasing it in a way that implies rape will eventually occur if a homosexual is inducted as a Boy Scout official?! I'm sorry, but your thought process is simply ludicrous. As for the controversy itself, I personally think it is immoral to bar homosexuals (or athiests, or Muslims, or whatever minority) access to any sort of institution under such flimsy grounds as "it's tradition". However, as is mentioned earlier in the thread, the BSA is a private organization, so they have the power to do so. Even so, I don't like it, and I dearly wish that this practice of theirs is abolished so that anyone who wishes to join (within reason, of course) is permitted to. On June 07 2012 11:53 ObliviousNA wrote: Hmm. Does anyone have more concrete stats about federal funding? School's holding fundraisers hardly counts... If they receive any federal funding I'm all for repealing this asinine policy. If they don't... well, I will just continue to not buy boy-scout cookies :D Fortunately, you have a delicious alternative in Girl Scout cookies. Thin Mints... mmmm... | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:38 Sofestafont wrote: Also don't allow atheists I believe. What nonsense lol I was a boyscout for half a year and I've never claimed or pretended to be any religion. Not once was my religion considered important or was I instructed to lie about it. I'm aware the official policy is against it. I'm also aware the official law is to arrest anyone that smokes marijuana but it's not like that is universally enforced either  The thing is, organizations like the Boy Scouts are lead locally while adhering to national standards. What that ends up meaning is there is a lot of room for Don't ask Don't tell kind of stuff. Scout leaders, as long as they don't parade around their dissent, can get away with allowing homosexuals, atheists, communists and what have you to join. However, it is a repugnant policy that walked hand in hand with the racist and bigoted mentalities of the last century. It's about time we put to rest such blind hatred (or worse, indifference) | ||
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Introvert
United States5029 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:53 ObliviousNA wrote: Hmm. Does anyone have more concrete stats about federal funding? School's holding fundraisers hardly counts... If they receive any federal funding I'm all for repealing this asinine policy. If they don't... well, I will just continue to not buy boy-scout cookies :D They mainly sell popcorn, lol. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:57 Introvert wrote: I'm an Eagle Scout. I generally like tradition, and given that the Boy Scouts is (was) a religious group, I hope they uphold it. The same thing with the ban on atheists. No reason to pressure a group to change their ways (based on the fundamentals of it's founding) for the "time" or else they would also have to allow atheists. The BSA as a whole is more than just a group of people who go on camping trips. This is what separates us from the girls scouts, as well. if someone wants these things, they can start their own organization. Then stop the Federal funding! On June 07 2012 11:42 SpunXtainz wrote: I think it is a dangerous step. Apart from some of the other points raised here, scouts is supposed to be a masculine pasttime, where men prepare themselves for life. Allowing a feminine person to lead them... Masculine past time? I don't know where you are, but where I am (I'm not saying I necessarily approve, although I do unconsciously view it sometimes as such) located it's usually laughed at by peers as being something childish. It's usually heavily ridiculed by females as well as simply dorky. Kinda like video games are. Not everyone thinks that way, but in general, the stereotype of the nerd who plays video games exist, regardless of whether it's true. Same goes to say for boy scouts. I sort of have that perception (it's an extremely childish/dorky activity), although I try to realize it's a stereotype, and since I don't know much about it, it in fact could be potentially badass. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Made me chuckle. Also, you're incorrect, as you yourself pointed out (and was previously cited earlier). If you refuse to believe in a higher power, then obviously you can't receive certain ranks. And that's totally their decision to make, but obviously it's discriminatory against certain atheists and agnostics. Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies#Position_on_atheists_and_agnostics I know several people who have gotten by on the technicality that i mentioned , that as long as we believe in some higher power, which my local council explains as beyond mans control, you can get any rank you earn. Officially you are correct, but most scouts and leaders prove of those technicalities, and also i was commenting on the fact that he said that they did not allow atheists, which is completely incorrect. | ||
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SpunXtainz
Australia13 Posts
On June 07 2012 11:51 iamahydralisk wrote: Oh you. Just because someone is gay doesn't make them feminine at all. The truth is, you wouldn't be able to tell most gay men from straight men from the way they act because most gay men aren't flamboyant at all. I think it is a misjudgement that most gay men can't me told apart from straight ones. Almost all of the gay people I know are quite feminine. | ||
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Introvert
United States5029 Posts
eh, I could see the case for that. The thing is, they don't TEACH anti gay things, for instance. Such things are not often (if ever) mentioned. I think they do WAY more good than "harm". I think it's over doing it to take their funding. | ||
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