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On July 31 2012 00:18 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:13 Elsid wrote:On July 30 2012 23:36 SayGen wrote:
Shame no one ever tlkas about the rights of non Homosexuals.
I mean what if you want to be around like minded people?
You have no safty net.
We don't allow men into ladys bathrooms, but that's ok discriminations.
But to ban gays isn't ok discimination?
I support people who stand up for what htey beleive, reguardless of side.
I do not support people who try force their beliefs down the throats of others.
the BS has always been hetero.
If you really want to be a gay scout why odn't you make your own group- I won't stop you.
I really see this as aggression on the part of homosexuals, and it really rubs me the wrong way. How do heterosexuals lose any rights by being around homosexuals? I suppose you also hate the civil rights movement for black rights cos they were forcing their beliefs down the throats of others? It's utterly ludicrous that you see this as aggression from homosexuals because they want to be accepted. Like seriously what the fuck? I realize u like many see things from one perspective. That is normal and I'm not insulting you. I have a bad habbit of seeing thigns from left field, right field, the skybox, and the dugout. Did you think maybe people don't want to accept them becuase they don't want to accept them? The Black Panthers don't like me. I'm white. Do I want to go to a Black PAnther meeting and make them accept me? No. They can hate me all they want. It's kool. If I want to be in a club with people jsut like me. I should be able to. It's not about keeping gays or anyone DOWN. It's about being allowed to form your own groups. that's why I gave you the ridiculus example of not allowing males into female bathrooms. THAT IS SEXIST!!!!! But it's ok. or is it?
And pray tell would you be comfortable if the Black Panthers were at least partially state funded?
also can you please clean up your writing because it's really hard at times to decipher what you're trying to say.
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On July 30 2012 16:31 cLAN.Anax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 16:17 Kerotan wrote:On July 30 2012 15:55 cLAN.Anax wrote:On July 30 2012 15:34 Kerotan wrote:On July 30 2012 15:19 cLAN.Anax wrote:On July 30 2012 14:45 Kerotan wrote:On July 30 2012 14:22 cLAN.Anax wrote:
Obama is only now showing interest in joining the pro-same-sex marriage camp; basically, he flip-flopped.
As an Eagle Scout, I approve of their decision to uphold this stance on the issue. Homosexuality, like sex ed in general, is thought best taught by the parent(s), not the BSA.
They may be the most discriminating of the youth organizations, but they also seem to be the group that gets the most done. Boy Scouts may not "embrace diversity," but I've respected them the most, for reasons other than this. Every November, we have "Scouting for Food," where we collected donated canned goods and give them to those in need. Girl Scouts (which have succumbed to most societal pressures, sadly) have... cookies. '>_> Through the BSA, I've conquered high-ropes courses, rappelled down cliff faces, backpacked around New Mexico, even camped in a cave. All the former Girl Scouts I've talked to wish they could have done all that stuff, but instead, they were relegated to boring, forgettable junk.
TL;DR: BSA has standards, doesn't let culture push it around; wish other organizations would take a hint. Sorry. You have a bad case of complete disconnection from reality, gay people don't walk up to you and say "Hi I'm gay, please allow me to explain how anal sex works", in the same way that when you meet a straight person they don't say "Hi I'm a dude and I love having sex with ladies, you see to have sex with a woman you stick your penis in their vagina. Oh and the name is david by the way" I say this because it actually sounds like you've never met a gay person before. When I was a younger Boy Scout, we also didn't mention politics or even differing religions for that matter, because we knew that we each had our separate opinions on the matter and knew to let the parents talk to thier kids about those issues. BSA expects Mom and Dad to explain how sex works and what differing political opinions and religious beliefs are and what homosexuality is. Someone who is openly expressive of their sexuality, in my opinion, should not be tolerated, hetero- or homosexual; Boy Scouts isn't the place for it. There is a double standard on this, as I heard far more than my fair share of heterosexuality (boys will be boys...), but I disapprove of it just as ardently. Basically, BSA doesn't want to deal with any of it, because they believe it's not their place. To be honest, a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy is acceptable here in my opinion, for any sexual orientation. I know it's not popular, but those are family issues (homosexuality, teenage promiscuity, etc.), and they should remain as such if you ask me. Don't ask don't tell has another name, its called "its okay to be straight but it isn't okay to be gay" Your living in a dream world, people will have their sexuality, and too me its totally lunatic that someone would lose their position for mentioning that they have a boyfriend and they are also male. Its repressive and damaging and so backwards it makes me cackle with laughter that rules and the people that subscribe to them still exist. And then a little sad. Americas stance on anything that isn't white and hertero-normative is shameful. BSA leaders frown upon Scouts bringing their girlfriends to Visit Night at Summer Camp too, if it makes you feel any better. I really don't mind if a person's gay. Or straight. Or what-heck-the-frick-ever. It's not that we live in some "dream world" and say they don't exist. But a Boy Scout meeting or campout is not the place to bring those topics up, with other members of the Troop; the responsibility for those subjects is given solely to the parent(s) or guardian(s). I tell you these things because it actually sounds as though you were never a Boy Scout or attended a BSA function before.... :-) Of course I've never been to a BSA function before. I'm not American. All I want is for people that are boy scouts to not be fired for being gay, and not having to hide that they are attracted to the same sex. Someone clearly minds, because the BSA stigmatises being gay, the BSA don't have a rule on their books saying "To be a boy scout you need not to be straight" or perhaps even more workable "Only aromantic Asexuals are allowed to be leaders and members of boy scouts of America" The day a scout leader get kicked from a position for being straight, for having the gal to admitting that they have a girlfriend, or in some other way is revealed that they prefer the company of ladies is the day that I will eat my own feet. I think my ability to walk will be safe for some time to come. Sorry, a Boy Scout function.Look, the Boy Scouts want to promote the health and growth of boys becoming trustworthy, loyal, helpful,... etc., etc., men in a fun and safe environment. BSA doesn't want to put up with the drama that ensues from these issues; honestly, you can do anything that a Scout does without having to mention to anyone your sexual orientation, no matter what it is. If you have to bring that up, you're with the wrong group. You go there to camp and climb and fish and kayak and mature and etc., not sit around and talk about the initimate details of your recent sexual expereinces or which set of plumbing you prefer on a person.
So you are telling me that you never once referenced your fondness for women into boyscouts? lol. Are you serious? You are such a hypocrit.
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On July 31 2012 00:18 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:13 Elsid wrote:On July 30 2012 23:36 SayGen wrote:
Shame no one ever tlkas about the rights of non Homosexuals.
I mean what if you want to be around like minded people?
You have no safty net.
We don't allow men into ladys bathrooms, but that's ok discriminations.
But to ban gays isn't ok discimination?
I support people who stand up for what htey beleive, reguardless of side.
I do not support people who try force their beliefs down the throats of others.
the BS has always been hetero.
If you really want to be a gay scout why odn't you make your own group- I won't stop you.
I really see this as aggression on the part of homosexuals, and it really rubs me the wrong way. How do heterosexuals lose any rights by being around homosexuals? I suppose you also hate the civil rights movement for black rights cos they were forcing their beliefs down the throats of others? It's utterly ludicrous that you see this as aggression from homosexuals because they want to be accepted. Like seriously what the fuck? I realize u like many see things from one perspective. That is normal and I'm not insulting you. I have a bad habbit of seeing thigns from left field, right field, the skybox, and the dugout. Did you think maybe people don't want to accept them becuase they don't want to accept them? The Black Panthers don't like me. I'm white. Do I want to go to a Black PAnther meeting and make them accept me? No. They can hate me all they want. It's kool. If I want to be in a club with people jsut like me. I should be able to. It's not about keeping gays or anyone DOWN. It's about being allowed to form your own groups. that's why I gave you the ridiculus example of not allowing males into female bathrooms. THAT IS SEXIST!!!!! But it's ok. or is it?
Its funny because you act like the outside is fighting against the ban inside the boyscouts. This issue came up because BOYSCOUTS wanted to get rid of them ban. You act like the scouts are completely solid on this issue when that is not eve close to being true. Many boyscouts do like gays and want to be around them.
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On July 31 2012 00:21 DoubleReed wrote:
The BSA gets federal funding to use a lot space and equipment. Federal funding should not be used to discriminate.
And there is no equivalence with male/female bathrooms at all.
Great point to bring up on ur 1st 2 sentences.
Ur last (3rd one) ur dead wrong.
discrimination is discrimination.
If I was 17 I would say you discriminate against me cause I can't smoke (in Ky.) or vote.
the bathroom example is 100% spot on and if you choose to neglect it your choosing hypocrisy. You have to draw the line in the sand, what is acceptable discrimination and what is not.
If I was 20 I would say I am being discriminated against because I can't drink. (alcohol).
Your holding me back cause of my age.
To answer your 1st 2 sentences. I would defend with democracy. We are a Republic DEMOCRACY.
Homosexual represent 1% of our total population. Sorry that's an EXTREME minority. the 99% should not back down cause of the 1%. Democracy works.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 31 2012 00:29 Smat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:18 SayGen wrote:On July 31 2012 00:13 Elsid wrote:On July 30 2012 23:36 SayGen wrote:
Shame no one ever tlkas about the rights of non Homosexuals.
I mean what if you want to be around like minded people?
You have no safty net.
We don't allow men into ladys bathrooms, but that's ok discriminations.
But to ban gays isn't ok discimination?
I support people who stand up for what htey beleive, reguardless of side.
I do not support people who try force their beliefs down the throats of others.
the BS has always been hetero.
If you really want to be a gay scout why odn't you make your own group- I won't stop you.
I really see this as aggression on the part of homosexuals, and it really rubs me the wrong way. How do heterosexuals lose any rights by being around homosexuals? I suppose you also hate the civil rights movement for black rights cos they were forcing their beliefs down the throats of others? It's utterly ludicrous that you see this as aggression from homosexuals because they want to be accepted. Like seriously what the fuck? I realize u like many see things from one perspective. That is normal and I'm not insulting you. I have a bad habbit of seeing thigns from left field, right field, the skybox, and the dugout. Did you think maybe people don't want to accept them becuase they don't want to accept them? The Black Panthers don't like me. I'm white. Do I want to go to a Black PAnther meeting and make them accept me? No. They can hate me all they want. It's kool. If I want to be in a club with people jsut like me. I should be able to. It's not about keeping gays or anyone DOWN. It's about being allowed to form your own groups. that's why I gave you the ridiculus example of not allowing males into female bathrooms. THAT IS SEXIST!!!!! But it's ok. or is it? Its funny because you act like the outside is fighting against the ban inside the boyscouts. This issue came up because BOYSCOUTS wanted to get rid of them ban. You act like the scouts are completely solid on this issue when that is not eve close to being true. Many boyscouts do like gays and want to be around them.
I act? Please highlight where I made that claim?
Also the organization is represented by it's leaders, not all members.
There is never perfect unity in any large group.
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On July 31 2012 00:21 Elsid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:18 SayGen wrote:On July 31 2012 00:13 Elsid wrote:On July 30 2012 23:36 SayGen wrote:
Shame no one ever tlkas about the rights of non Homosexuals.
I mean what if you want to be around like minded people?
You have no safty net.
We don't allow men into ladys bathrooms, but that's ok discriminations.
But to ban gays isn't ok discimination?
I support people who stand up for what htey beleive, reguardless of side.
I do not support people who try force their beliefs down the throats of others.
the BS has always been hetero.
If you really want to be a gay scout why odn't you make your own group- I won't stop you.
I really see this as aggression on the part of homosexuals, and it really rubs me the wrong way. How do heterosexuals lose any rights by being around homosexuals? I suppose you also hate the civil rights movement for black rights cos they were forcing their beliefs down the throats of others? It's utterly ludicrous that you see this as aggression from homosexuals because they want to be accepted. Like seriously what the fuck? I realize u like many see things from one perspective. That is normal and I'm not insulting you. I have a bad habbit of seeing thigns from left field, right field, the skybox, and the dugout. Did you think maybe people don't want to accept them becuase they don't want to accept them? The Black Panthers don't like me. I'm white. Do I want to go to a Black PAnther meeting and make them accept me? No. They can hate me all they want. It's kool. If I want to be in a club with people jsut like me. I should be able to. It's not about keeping gays or anyone DOWN. It's about being allowed to form your own groups. that's why I gave you the ridiculus example of not allowing males into female bathrooms. THAT IS SEXIST!!!!! But it's ok. or is it? And pray tell would you be comfortable if the Black Panthers were at least partially state funded? also can you please clean up your writing because it's really hard at times to decipher what you're trying to say.
1) I don't appease Grammer Queens.
2) I would have no issue with that.
Did you know we give FEDERAL funding to Abortion clinic as well as Pro Life clinics?
Sounds cracy doesn't it? Democracy works, if you want to support something write your congressman/senator and make it happen.
Majoirity rules.
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On July 31 2012 00:31 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:21 DoubleReed wrote:
The BSA gets federal funding to use a lot space and equipment. Federal funding should not be used to discriminate.
And there is no equivalence with male/female bathrooms at all. Great point to bring up on ur 1st 2 sentences. Ur last (3rd one) ur dead wrong. discrimination is discrimination. If I was 17 I would say you discriminate against me cause I can't smoke (in Ky.) or vote. the bathroom example is 100% spot on and if you choose to neglect it your choosing hypocrisy. You have to draw the line in the sand, what is acceptable discrimination and what is not. If I was 20 I would say I am being discriminated against because I can't drink. (alcohol). Your holding me back cause of my age. To answer your 1st 2 sentences. I would defend with democracy. We are a Republic DEMOCRACY. Homosexual represent 1% of our total population. Sorry that's an EXTREME minority. the 99% should not back down cause of the 1%. Democracy works.
We are an American Democracy which means that minorities have rights regardless of what the majority thinks. That's the 14th Amendment you should check it out sometime.
Bathrooms are not equivalent. By law you must support both kinds of bathrooms. There is absolutely nothing discriminatory about having different bathrooms for people who go to the bathroom differently.
Also it's somewhere between 2-4%.
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On July 31 2012 00:35 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:21 Elsid wrote:On July 31 2012 00:18 SayGen wrote:On July 31 2012 00:13 Elsid wrote:On July 30 2012 23:36 SayGen wrote:
Shame no one ever tlkas about the rights of non Homosexuals.
I mean what if you want to be around like minded people?
You have no safty net.
We don't allow men into ladys bathrooms, but that's ok discriminations.
But to ban gays isn't ok discimination?
I support people who stand up for what htey beleive, reguardless of side.
I do not support people who try force their beliefs down the throats of others.
the BS has always been hetero.
If you really want to be a gay scout why odn't you make your own group- I won't stop you.
I really see this as aggression on the part of homosexuals, and it really rubs me the wrong way. How do heterosexuals lose any rights by being around homosexuals? I suppose you also hate the civil rights movement for black rights cos they were forcing their beliefs down the throats of others? It's utterly ludicrous that you see this as aggression from homosexuals because they want to be accepted. Like seriously what the fuck? I realize u like many see things from one perspective. That is normal and I'm not insulting you. I have a bad habbit of seeing thigns from left field, right field, the skybox, and the dugout. Did you think maybe people don't want to accept them becuase they don't want to accept them? The Black Panthers don't like me. I'm white. Do I want to go to a Black PAnther meeting and make them accept me? No. They can hate me all they want. It's kool. If I want to be in a club with people jsut like me. I should be able to. It's not about keeping gays or anyone DOWN. It's about being allowed to form your own groups. that's why I gave you the ridiculus example of not allowing males into female bathrooms. THAT IS SEXIST!!!!! But it's ok. or is it? And pray tell would you be comfortable if the Black Panthers were at least partially state funded? also can you please clean up your writing because it's really hard at times to decipher what you're trying to say. 1) I don't appease Grammer Queens. 2) I would have no issue with that. Did you know we give FEDERAL funding to Abortion clinic as well as Pro Life clinics? Sounds cracy doesn't it? Democracy works, if you want to support something write your congressman/senator and make it happen. Majoirity rules.
Yes there's no issue with funding abortion and pro life clinics because they don't actually remove rights of the people of the state. Having an abortion doesn't exclude or damage the rights of anyone else in a society.
Using federal funding to promote discrimination is fucking ass backwards and i can't see how that's contestable. Just because you are part of a majority group doesn't mean you can vote away the rights of minority groups just because fuck it majority says so.
Tomorrow you couldn't just vote away black peoples right to marry. Also the bathroom example isn't exactly perfect considering i've been to places that have unisex bathrooms and having different bathrooms for each sex doesn't really remove any rights from either sex at all. It's more historic than anything considering anyone can use a cubicle.
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For people who go to the bathroom different
for people who express their sexuality differently.
Thanks.
Point Set. Match.
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On July 31 2012 00:41 SayGen wrote:
For people who go to the bathroom different
for people who express their sexuality differently.
Thanks.
Point Set. Match.
What does the boy scouts have to deal with expressing sexuality? What is fundamentally different between a gay boy scout and a hetero boy scout?
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On July 31 2012 00:41 SayGen wrote:
For people who go to the bathroom different
for people who express their sexuality differently.
Thanks.
Point Set. Match.
I would have to understand what you just wrote and your point is before you could win anything buddy.
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On July 31 2012 00:40 Elsid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:35 SayGen wrote:On July 31 2012 00:21 Elsid wrote:On July 31 2012 00:18 SayGen wrote:On July 31 2012 00:13 Elsid wrote:On July 30 2012 23:36 SayGen wrote:
Shame no one ever tlkas about the rights of non Homosexuals.
I mean what if you want to be around like minded people?
You have no safty net.
We don't allow men into ladys bathrooms, but that's ok discriminations.
But to ban gays isn't ok discimination?
I support people who stand up for what htey beleive, reguardless of side.
I do not support people who try force their beliefs down the throats of others.
the BS has always been hetero.
If you really want to be a gay scout why odn't you make your own group- I won't stop you.
I really see this as aggression on the part of homosexuals, and it really rubs me the wrong way. How do heterosexuals lose any rights by being around homosexuals? I suppose you also hate the civil rights movement for black rights cos they were forcing their beliefs down the throats of others? It's utterly ludicrous that you see this as aggression from homosexuals because they want to be accepted. Like seriously what the fuck? I realize u like many see things from one perspective. That is normal and I'm not insulting you. I have a bad habbit of seeing thigns from left field, right field, the skybox, and the dugout. Did you think maybe people don't want to accept them becuase they don't want to accept them? The Black Panthers don't like me. I'm white. Do I want to go to a Black PAnther meeting and make them accept me? No. They can hate me all they want. It's kool. If I want to be in a club with people jsut like me. I should be able to. It's not about keeping gays or anyone DOWN. It's about being allowed to form your own groups. that's why I gave you the ridiculus example of not allowing males into female bathrooms. THAT IS SEXIST!!!!! But it's ok. or is it? And pray tell would you be comfortable if the Black Panthers were at least partially state funded? also can you please clean up your writing because it's really hard at times to decipher what you're trying to say. 1) I don't appease Grammer Queens. 2) I would have no issue with that. Did you know we give FEDERAL funding to Abortion clinic as well as Pro Life clinics? Sounds cracy doesn't it? Democracy works, if you want to support something write your congressman/senator and make it happen. Majoirity rules. Yes there's no issue with funding abortion and pro life clinics because they don't actually remove rights of the people of the state. Having an abortion doesn't exclude or damage the rights of anyone else in a society. Using federal funding to promote discrimination is fucking ass backwards and i can't see how that's contestable. Just because you are part of a majority group doesn't mean you can vote away the rights of minority groups just because fuck it majority says so. Tomorrow you couldn't just vote away black peoples right to marry. Also the bathroom example isn't exactly perfect considering i've been to places that have unisex bathrooms and having different bathrooms for each sex doesn't really remove any rights from either sex at all. It's more historic than anything considering anyone can use a cubicle.
1) an abortion clinic removes the rights of the child.
...But a child can not speak! Nor can a mute man.
2) Yes we could/can. We had a system in place some only landowners could vote. black people voting is a concept that is still new. 100ish years is not a long time. Everything is up to interpertation/opinion. The bathroom was to give the most simplisitic example of how you cna create laws that are based purply on sex. It is a SEXIST law. It discriminates.
SEPERATE BUT EQUAL ring a bell?
What is discrimination? What is lawful or unlawful discrimination?
Where is the line in the sand?
You are still thinking 2D in a 3D world my friend.
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On July 31 2012 00:44 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:41 SayGen wrote:
For people who go to the bathroom different
for people who express their sexuality differently.
Thanks.
Point Set. Match. What does the boy scouts have to deal with expressing sexuality? What is fundamentally different between a gay boy scout and a hetero boy scout?
you just quoted it, how you express your sexuality.
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On July 31 2012 00:47 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:44 DoubleReed wrote:On July 31 2012 00:41 SayGen wrote:
For people who go to the bathroom different
for people who express their sexuality differently.
Thanks.
Point Set. Match. What does the boy scouts have to deal with expressing sexuality? What is fundamentally different between a gay boy scout and a hetero boy scout? you just quoted it, how you express your sexuality.
Your claim would only have merit if the Boy Scouts was some "straight guy relationship group" and even then only if they had an equivalent option for homosexuals as well.
How old are you?
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On July 31 2012 00:46 SayGen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:40 Elsid wrote:On July 31 2012 00:35 SayGen wrote:On July 31 2012 00:21 Elsid wrote:On July 31 2012 00:18 SayGen wrote:On July 31 2012 00:13 Elsid wrote:On July 30 2012 23:36 SayGen wrote:
Shame no one ever tlkas about the rights of non Homosexuals.
I mean what if you want to be around like minded people?
You have no safty net.
We don't allow men into ladys bathrooms, but that's ok discriminations.
But to ban gays isn't ok discimination?
I support people who stand up for what htey beleive, reguardless of side.
I do not support people who try force their beliefs down the throats of others.
the BS has always been hetero.
If you really want to be a gay scout why odn't you make your own group- I won't stop you.
I really see this as aggression on the part of homosexuals, and it really rubs me the wrong way. How do heterosexuals lose any rights by being around homosexuals? I suppose you also hate the civil rights movement for black rights cos they were forcing their beliefs down the throats of others? It's utterly ludicrous that you see this as aggression from homosexuals because they want to be accepted. Like seriously what the fuck? I realize u like many see things from one perspective. That is normal and I'm not insulting you. I have a bad habbit of seeing thigns from left field, right field, the skybox, and the dugout. Did you think maybe people don't want to accept them becuase they don't want to accept them? The Black Panthers don't like me. I'm white. Do I want to go to a Black PAnther meeting and make them accept me? No. They can hate me all they want. It's kool. If I want to be in a club with people jsut like me. I should be able to. It's not about keeping gays or anyone DOWN. It's about being allowed to form your own groups. that's why I gave you the ridiculus example of not allowing males into female bathrooms. THAT IS SEXIST!!!!! But it's ok. or is it? And pray tell would you be comfortable if the Black Panthers were at least partially state funded? also can you please clean up your writing because it's really hard at times to decipher what you're trying to say. 1) I don't appease Grammer Queens. 2) I would have no issue with that. Did you know we give FEDERAL funding to Abortion clinic as well as Pro Life clinics? Sounds cracy doesn't it? Democracy works, if you want to support something write your congressman/senator and make it happen. Majoirity rules. Yes there's no issue with funding abortion and pro life clinics because they don't actually remove rights of the people of the state. Having an abortion doesn't exclude or damage the rights of anyone else in a society. Using federal funding to promote discrimination is fucking ass backwards and i can't see how that's contestable. Just because you are part of a majority group doesn't mean you can vote away the rights of minority groups just because fuck it majority says so. Tomorrow you couldn't just vote away black peoples right to marry. Also the bathroom example isn't exactly perfect considering i've been to places that have unisex bathrooms and having different bathrooms for each sex doesn't really remove any rights from either sex at all. It's more historic than anything considering anyone can use a cubicle. 1) an abortion clinic removes the rights of the child. ...But a child can not speak! Nor can a mute man. 2) Yes we could/can. We had a system in place some only landowners could vote. black people voting is a concept that is still new. 100ish years is not a long time. Everything is up to interpertation/opinion. The bathroom was to give the most simplisitic example of how you cna create laws that are based purply on sex. It is a SEXIST law. It discriminates. SEPERATE BUT EQUAL ring a bell? What is discrimination? What is lawful or unlawful discrimination? Where is the line in the sand? You are still thinking 2D in a 3D world my friend.
First things first, don't call me friend. I'd hate to be associated with you short of this conversation.
Tell me exactly when did a fetus become a child in this analogy? There's a line of actual contention here because there's a difference between a fetus and a child. It however is a totally different argument and would end up going completely off topic.
And no, no you couldn't at point 2. Read your constitution. There's protection of minority rights.
As I said the bathroom thing doesn't impact the rights of either sex so I "cna't"(in your own words) see how it's really relevant.
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On July 31 2012 00:09 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 14:22 cLAN.Anax wrote:
Obama is only now showing interest in joining the pro-same-sex marriage camp; basically, he flip-flopped.
As an Eagle Scout, I approve of their decision to uphold this stance on the issue. Homosexuality, like sex ed in general, is thought best taught by the parent(s), not the BSA.
They may be the most discriminating of the youth organizations, but they also seem to be the group that gets the most done. Boy Scouts may not "embrace diversity," but I've respected them the most, for reasons other than this. Every November, we have "Scouting for Food," where we collected donated canned goods and give them to those in need. Girl Scouts (which have succumbed to most societal pressures, sadly) have... cookies. '>_> Through the BSA, I've conquered high-ropes courses, rappelled down cliff faces, backpacked around New Mexico, even camped in a cave. All the former Girl Scouts I've talked to wish they could have done all that stuff, but instead, they were relegated to boring, forgettable junk.
TL;DR: BSA has standards, doesn't let culture push it around; wish other organizations would take a hint. "Standards" is a pretty fucked up way to euphemise discrimination. What if I justified racial discrimination to you by saying that we have "standards." You do understand that people who have been with the scouts for years were recently fired for no other reason other than the BSA wants to double down on the issue. And shut up about the girl scouts. Capitalism is very much part of America. Selling delicious shit with awesome advertising and social manipulation by adorable little girls is way more American than anything the boy scouts do.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the BSA fires Scouts who harass or sleep with women on campouts. Shoot, even a Scout boasting about the number of girls he’s bedded is grounds for questioning by the leaders. Besides, that’s not the purpose of Boy Scouts. I’ll reiterate what I said earlier:
“The Boy Scouts want to promote the health and growth of boys becoming trustworthy, loyal, helpful,... etc., etc., men in a fun and safe environment. BSA doesn't want to put up with the drama that ensues from these issues; honestly, you can do anything that a Scout does without having to mention to anyone your sexual orientation, no matter what it is. If you have to bring that up, you're with the wrong group. You go there to camp and climb and fish and kayak and mature and etc., not sit around and talk about the initimate details of your recent sexual expereinces or which set of plumbing you prefer on a person.”
RE: Girl Scouts: Hey! I’m not saying Girl Scouts selling cookies is a bad thing! All I’m saying about that is the Boy Scouts do tons more than just do fundraisers. American?! Many Scouts go on to serve in the Armed Forces; it doesn’t get much more “American” than that. All Eagle Scouts volunteer themselves by leading an Eagle Project, the focus of which must demonstrate adequate leadership capability in the candidate and give back to the community in some form or fashion. Methinks you were never a Boy Scout, at least not for an appreciable amount of time, or you’ve never talked with an Eagle Scout about what they've done….
On July 31 2012 00:25 Smat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 16:31 cLAN.Anax wrote:On July 30 2012 16:17 Kerotan wrote:On July 30 2012 15:55 cLAN.Anax wrote:On July 30 2012 15:34 Kerotan wrote:On July 30 2012 15:19 cLAN.Anax wrote:On July 30 2012 14:45 Kerotan wrote:On July 30 2012 14:22 cLAN.Anax wrote:
Obama is only now showing interest in joining the pro-same-sex marriage camp; basically, he flip-flopped.
As an Eagle Scout, I approve of their decision to uphold this stance on the issue. Homosexuality, like sex ed in general, is thought best taught by the parent(s), not the BSA.
They may be the most discriminating of the youth organizations, but they also seem to be the group that gets the most done. Boy Scouts may not "embrace diversity," but I've respected them the most, for reasons other than this. Every November, we have "Scouting for Food," where we collected donated canned goods and give them to those in need. Girl Scouts (which have succumbed to most societal pressures, sadly) have... cookies. '>_> Through the BSA, I've conquered high-ropes courses, rappelled down cliff faces, backpacked around New Mexico, even camped in a cave. All the former Girl Scouts I've talked to wish they could have done all that stuff, but instead, they were relegated to boring, forgettable junk.
TL;DR: BSA has standards, doesn't let culture push it around; wish other organizations would take a hint. Sorry. You have a bad case of complete disconnection from reality, gay people don't walk up to you and say "Hi I'm gay, please allow me to explain how anal sex works", in the same way that when you meet a straight person they don't say "Hi I'm a dude and I love having sex with ladies, you see to have sex with a woman you stick your penis in their vagina. Oh and the name is david by the way" I say this because it actually sounds like you've never met a gay person before. When I was a younger Boy Scout, we also didn't mention politics or even differing religions for that matter, because we knew that we each had our separate opinions on the matter and knew to let the parents talk to thier kids about those issues. BSA expects Mom and Dad to explain how sex works and what differing political opinions and religious beliefs are and what homosexuality is. Someone who is openly expressive of their sexuality, in my opinion, should not be tolerated, hetero- or homosexual; Boy Scouts isn't the place for it. There is a double standard on this, as I heard far more than my fair share of heterosexuality (boys will be boys...), but I disapprove of it just as ardently. Basically, BSA doesn't want to deal with any of it, because they believe it's not their place. To be honest, a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy is acceptable here in my opinion, for any sexual orientation. I know it's not popular, but those are family issues (homosexuality, teenage promiscuity, etc.), and they should remain as such if you ask me. Don't ask don't tell has another name, its called "its okay to be straight but it isn't okay to be gay" Your living in a dream world, people will have their sexuality, and too me its totally lunatic that someone would lose their position for mentioning that they have a boyfriend and they are also male. Its repressive and damaging and so backwards it makes me cackle with laughter that rules and the people that subscribe to them still exist. And then a little sad. Americas stance on anything that isn't white and hertero-normative is shameful. BSA leaders frown upon Scouts bringing their girlfriends to Visit Night at Summer Camp too, if it makes you feel any better. I really don't mind if a person's gay. Or straight. Or what-heck-the-frick-ever. It's not that we live in some "dream world" and say they don't exist. But a Boy Scout meeting or campout is not the place to bring those topics up, with other members of the Troop; the responsibility for those subjects is given solely to the parent(s) or guardian(s). I tell you these things because it actually sounds as though you were never a Boy Scout or attended a BSA function before.... :-) Of course I've never been to a BSA function before. I'm not American. All I want is for people that are boy scouts to not be fired for being gay, and not having to hide that they are attracted to the same sex. Someone clearly minds, because the BSA stigmatises being gay, the BSA don't have a rule on their books saying "To be a boy scout you need not to be straight" or perhaps even more workable "Only aromantic Asexuals are allowed to be leaders and members of boy scouts of America" The day a scout leader get kicked from a position for being straight, for having the gal to admitting that they have a girlfriend, or in some other way is revealed that they prefer the company of ladies is the day that I will eat my own feet. I think my ability to walk will be safe for some time to come. Sorry, a Boy Scout function.Look, the Boy Scouts want to promote the health and growth of boys becoming trustworthy, loyal, helpful,... etc., etc., men in a fun and safe environment. BSA doesn't want to put up with the drama that ensues from these issues; honestly, you can do anything that a Scout does without having to mention to anyone your sexual orientation, no matter what it is. If you have to bring that up, you're with the wrong group. You go there to camp and climb and fish and kayak and mature and etc., not sit around and talk about the initimate details of your recent sexual expereinces or which set of plumbing you prefer on a person. So you are telling me that you never once referenced your fondness for women into boyscouts? lol. Are you serious? You are such a hypocrit.
No, actually, I didn’t. I’m one of the exceptions, but I’m proud to say that I never told my fellow Scouts my attraction to women. ^_^ Granted, it was for reasons completely unrelated to the reasons that I have now for this position, lol. Honestly, I had a really abnormal view for my life in high school and it’s really complicated and it doesn’t really pertain to the subject at hand. I need to write a TL blog someday; hopefully, I can elaborate on it there. Until then, please simply trust my candor.
In any case, please don’t call me a hypocrite so quickly like that when you’ve heard so little about me personally.
Back to the topic, there definitely IS a double standard within the BSA about this, and I don’t approve of it any more than you do; perhaps actually being a Scout, I approve of it even less. During my time, I was still inundated with talk about girls and sex, and I didn’t care for it one bit. I don’t believe that such talks should occur at Scout-ordained functions. Boy Scouts emphasizes the growth of young boys into men, not the discussion of Timmy’s promiscuity, or Johnny’s homosexuality. Scouts is not the time nor the place for those things; the BSA recognizes this, and entrusts the parent(s) with this responsibility instead.
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On July 31 2012 00:39 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:31 SayGen wrote:On July 31 2012 00:21 DoubleReed wrote:
The BSA gets federal funding to use a lot space and equipment. Federal funding should not be used to discriminate.
And there is no equivalence with male/female bathrooms at all. Great point to bring up on ur 1st 2 sentences. Ur last (3rd one) ur dead wrong. discrimination is discrimination. If I was 17 I would say you discriminate against me cause I can't smoke (in Ky.) or vote. the bathroom example is 100% spot on and if you choose to neglect it your choosing hypocrisy. You have to draw the line in the sand, what is acceptable discrimination and what is not. If I was 20 I would say I am being discriminated against because I can't drink. (alcohol). Your holding me back cause of my age. To answer your 1st 2 sentences. I would defend with democracy. We are a Republic DEMOCRACY. Homosexual represent 1% of our total population. Sorry that's an EXTREME minority. the 99% should not back down cause of the 1%. Democracy works. We are an American Democracy which means that minorities have rights regardless of what the majority thinks. That's the 14th Amendment you should check it out sometime. Bathrooms are not equivalent. By law you must support both kinds of bathrooms. There is absolutely nothing discriminatory about having different bathrooms for people who go to the bathroom differently. Also it's somewhere between 2-4%.
how did this thread get to if girls should piss standing up?
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As an Eagle scout myself, I am extremely disappointed to see the BSA follow through on this.
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On July 31 2012 11:07 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 00:39 DoubleReed wrote:On July 31 2012 00:31 SayGen wrote:On July 31 2012 00:21 DoubleReed wrote:
The BSA gets federal funding to use a lot space and equipment. Federal funding should not be used to discriminate.
And there is no equivalence with male/female bathrooms at all. Great point to bring up on ur 1st 2 sentences. Ur last (3rd one) ur dead wrong. discrimination is discrimination. If I was 17 I would say you discriminate against me cause I can't smoke (in Ky.) or vote. the bathroom example is 100% spot on and if you choose to neglect it your choosing hypocrisy. You have to draw the line in the sand, what is acceptable discrimination and what is not. If I was 20 I would say I am being discriminated against because I can't drink. (alcohol). Your holding me back cause of my age. To answer your 1st 2 sentences. I would defend with democracy. We are a Republic DEMOCRACY. Homosexual represent 1% of our total population. Sorry that's an EXTREME minority. the 99% should not back down cause of the 1%. Democracy works. We are an American Democracy which means that minorities have rights regardless of what the majority thinks. That's the 14th Amendment you should check it out sometime. Bathrooms are not equivalent. By law you must support both kinds of bathrooms. There is absolutely nothing discriminatory about having different bathrooms for people who go to the bathroom differently. Also it's somewhere between 2-4%. how did this thread get to if girls should piss standing up?
I have no idea, but the guy insisted that having separate bathrooms for the sexes was 100% spot on analogy for firing homosexuals from being scout leaders for no other reason than being gay. Funny how some people's brains work.
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EPT
