EPTInstead of the government spying on everybody, everybody spies on the government.
The Free World Charter - Page 30
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
Instead of the government spying on everybody, everybody spies on the government. | ||
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soccerdude
United States54 Posts
The matchup is TvZ. Xelnaga Caverns. You start the game and send your workers to mine. You continue to macro, and turtle, till the 12 minute mark when you push out with +2 atk, marines and tanks on 2 base. You push to the zerg's third and destroy it, then continue to take the game. Never once do you stop to wonder, "I wonder why my SCV's decided to follow my command?", and you do not wonder this because obviously SCV's do not have minds. However, if you happened to be completely illogical, or simply misinformed, you may have actually believed that the SCV's did have minds, and they simply chose to follow your commands because they knew they were working for the "greater good". You thought that obviously they knew that if they worked hard, they might be promoted to "builder of structures", or maybe even "proxy barracks builder". Taking a leap of faith for a moment, I consider that SCV's really do have minds. And then I realize that if they really did have minds, then as individuals they would have to be stupid to work. If they really did have minds, they would realize that their team doesn't even need that 6th guy mining to win, and as an individual they would just relax, knowing that they would get the same rewards as their teammates, without having to put in an effort. Lazy Joe's team mate SCV's in turn would figure out that they shouldn't have to work either if they get the same amount of stuff as Lazy Joe, and they would slack off. Maybe the SCV's would figure out that they would have to mine resources to win, and even if they knew that, then they would only mine enough to where they could win, nothing more. It is human nature to only do enough to get by, and this is evident by laziness, school, work deadlines, procrastinating, ect. THE ONLY INCENTIVE TO WORK MORE/HARDER IS A HIGHER STANDARD OF LIVING. If people knew they didn't have to work to get a higher standard of living, they wouldn't work. If people knew they barely had to work to get a higher standard of living, they would barely work. This is where the "free" world idea falls apart. INCENTIVE. Hopefully people don't attack the analogy too much. :D | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On May 07 2012 07:43 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Yeah I live in an apartment where I don't pay for heat directly. During the winter everyone opens their windows when it gets too hot! There is an incentive for the apartment owner to save money through efficiency but it is hard to get financing for that directly and many owners simply don't know how to quantify their investment in energy efficiency. Actually you do pay for the heat. It's internalized in your rent. So instead of you paying for your consumption, your landlord opted to have you live communally to make his life easier: Nobody pays directly, and the energy costs for the entire building are dispersed evenly throughout the building in the form of rent. This is essentially socialism/communalism, and you noticed the end result: Waste. It's exactly the reason the OP will never work. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On May 07 2012 10:50 BluePanther wrote: This is essentially socialism/communalism, and you noticed the end result: Waste. Consumer capitalism produces an enormous amount of waste as well. Perhaps we should try something altogether new? | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On May 07 2012 10:54 sam!zdat wrote: Consumer capitalism produces an enormous amount of waste as well. Perhaps we should try something altogether new? Everything ends in some waste... There will always be an efficiency that outweighs the waste, and justifies the waste. Capitalism is just the most honest form of dealing with it. The goal is minimizing the waste. Capitalism does this better than any other method. You're looking for magic answers that don't exist. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On May 07 2012 10:59 BluePanther wrote: Capitalism does this better than any other method. Why do you feel this way? Have you thought about all the others? edit: and don't you see all the absurd consequences in our society? You're looking for magic answers that don't exist. Don't feel that way at all. I'm looking for clever answers that haven't been discovered yet. Isn't that the "innovation" that all the capitalists love to talk about? | ||
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BlindKill
Australia1508 Posts
You and your commie regime will never be established! And tell me what subject you teach so I can laugh at you and be sorry for your students. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On May 07 2012 11:08 sam!zdat wrote: Why do you feel this way? Have you thought about all the others? edit: and don't you see all the absurd consequences in our society? Don't feel that way at all. I'm looking for clever answers that haven't been discovered yet. Isn't that the "innovation" that all the capitalists love to talk about? Because that's the way it is. Yes. Yes, but I'm not sure I'd call them "absurd"; they are completely logical. No. Innovation refers to finding ways to minimize that waste by either finding use for it or by increasing efficiency which lowers the aggregate waste. In short, you profit by reducing waste. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On May 07 2012 11:12 BluePanther wrote: Because that's the way it is. It's only been that way for a relatively brief period in human history. Don't fetishize the market. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On May 07 2012 11:14 sam!zdat wrote: It's only been that way for a relatively brief period in human history. Don't fetishize the market. Actually it's always been that way. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
Ok, well I'll forget everything I know about history then! Thanks! Anyway, don't have time to bash my head against the neoliberal party line - you're obviously not interested in a real conversation. Peace. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On May 07 2012 11:14 sam!zdat wrote: It's only been that way for a relatively brief period in human history. Don't fetishize the market. You're right. Beforehand it was considerably worse. And it keeps gettings progressively better. In two hundred years the average standard of living has gotten better then it has it in almost two thousand years. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On May 07 2012 11:20 sam!zdat wrote: Ok, well I'll forget everything I know about history then! Thanks! Anyway, don't have time to bash my head against the neoliberal party line - you're obviously not interested in a real conversation. Peace. In which part of history was this not true? It's a universal truth. Human constructs have attempted to change the justifications and valuations from time to time, but my assertion has never been false at any point in history. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On May 07 2012 11:21 1Eris1 wrote: You're right. Beforehand it was considerably worse. You're right. Maybe that could happen again! | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On May 07 2012 11:22 BluePanther wrote: In which part of history was this not true? It's a universal truth. Human constructs have attempted to change the justifications and valuations from time to time, but my assertion has never been false at any point in history. Look dude, if you think that the system of late industrial global finance capital is basically analogous to all economic systems in human history, you need more help than I can give you. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
It is. Society is continually getting better; the average SOL is increasing every generation. Why risk everything on something that is very unlikely to work, when we're still growing? | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On May 07 2012 11:26 1Eris1 wrote: It is. Society is continually getting better; the average SOL is increasing every generation. Why risk everything on something that is very unlikely to work, when we're still growing? Because what it means to "grow" changes. Simply increasing gnp doesn't cut it. We're not really growing, we're just fooling ourselves into believing that so we can keep producing. edit: look, I'm not anti capitalism. Just the form of it we have now is obsolescent. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On May 07 2012 11:23 sam!zdat wrote: Look dude, if you think that the system of late industrial global finance capital is basically analogous to all economic systems in human history, you need more help than I can give you. I'm not sure how it isn't. In the "pre industrial global finance capital system" (whatever that even means), the guy who learned how to cook the pig's liver and eat it was more efficient than the guy who didn't. He therefore got more food per effort of raising each pig. Increase efficiency, reduce waste, profit. His innovation in cooking the liver instead of only the muscle netted him a gain. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On May 07 2012 11:37 BluePanther wrote: I'm not sure how it is. In the "pre industrial global finance capital system" (whatever that even means), the guy who learned how to cook the pig's liver and eat it was more efficient than the guy who didn't. He therefore got more food per effort of raising each pig. Increase efficiency, reduce waste, profit. His innovation in cooking the liver instead of only the muscle netted him a gain. let's make a list of things missing from your example: global finance capital Does that help? | ||
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