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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 437

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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
JumboJohnson
Profile Joined December 2011
537 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-14 04:40:02
July 14 2013 04:39 GMT
#8721
I don't see how it can be self defense if you started it.

Edit: but Florida's self defense law is bizarre to me.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 14 2013 04:40 GMT
#8722
On July 14 2013 13:35 KonekoTyriin wrote:
The verdict may be in accordance with the law, but if so then I disagree quite strongly with the law. From what I understand of the case:

Zimmerman shot Martin with a gun. Because there was no prior intent (probably) and it was in self defense (almost certainly), it's reasonable that he did not intend to kill Martin. This sounds like an open and shut manslaughter conviction- though if testimony had uncovered intent, it could have been murder.

You can get convicted of manslaughter for building a house incautiously if it results in the house falling and killing someone inside. No matter how little you wanted that person to die or how indirectly your actions led to their death, if you kill someone, you at LEAST get manslaughter.

I don't understand how Zimmerman could possibly walk completely free from this. It does not seem consistent with justice as I understand it.

You missed the part where Trayvon was pummeling Zimmerman.
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
July 14 2013 04:40 GMT
#8723
Who started it is impossible to know. All we know is Trayvon was on top and giving zimmerman a good whooping.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 14 2013 04:41 GMT
#8724
On July 14 2013 13:37 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2013 13:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I think the real outcry should have just been on how little investigation the police initially did.


Since you have an opinion, I assume it is based on something. So, I ask you. What evidence are you aware of that was used in this prosecution that the police failed to investigate "initially" ? All witnesses at the scene were interviewed. The autopsy, forensics, etc were all done "initially". What evidence was subsequently obtained that should be the basis for your "real outcry".

The fact that Trayvon Martin was unarmed; but still no charges were brought up was quite shocking to me. Though there is little doubt in my mind that Zimmerman is indeed innocent of the charges and it was most likely self defense; I find it highly questionable that there they would just take Zimmermans initial answers to questioning at face value.
liftlift > tsm
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
July 14 2013 04:41 GMT
#8725
On July 14 2013 13:39 JumboJohnson wrote:
I don't see how it can be self defense if you started it.

Edit: but Florida's self defense law is bizarre to me.

Stand Your Ground has nothing to do with it. Martin used lethal force first, meaning Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. That's the case practically everywhere one Earth.
Who called in the fleet?
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
July 14 2013 04:42 GMT
#8726
On July 14 2013 13:34 TmixX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2013 13:12 NEOtheONE wrote:
Man the Twitter reactions to the verdict are something else. Celebrities in particular are painfully ignorant of the details of the trial.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/celebrities-on-twitter-react-to-george-zimmermans-acquittal


Roddy White@roddywhiteTV Follow
All them jurors should go home tonight and kill themselves for letting a grown man get away with killing a kid

yikes. what a piece of trash





I'm a huge Falcons fan and love Roddy White's playing ability, but the guy isn't the brightest person on the team. It's kind of embarrassing whenever he opens his mouth.

I'm more shocked by Wil Wheaton's response. I thought he at least had some brain cells or at least tact.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
Robotix
Profile Joined August 2012
United States51 Posts
July 14 2013 04:42 GMT
#8727
More angry twitter posts:

*Warning - offensive language*
+ Show Spoiler +
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FuckYouGeorgeZimmermanDieInAFire
"Dumb shit happened" - Idra
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 14 2013 04:43 GMT
#8728
On July 14 2013 13:39 JumboJohnson wrote:
I don't see how it can be self defense if you started it.

Edit: but Florida's self defense law is bizarre to me.

You can start yelling at someone; and getting in a verbal argument, without getting into a physical fight. You can start insulting someone; but if they start pummeling you; their at fault, not you.
liftlift > tsm
Tewks44
Profile Joined April 2011
United States2032 Posts
July 14 2013 04:43 GMT
#8729
On July 14 2013 13:41 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2013 13:37 Kaitlin wrote:
On July 14 2013 13:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I think the real outcry should have just been on how little investigation the police initially did.


Since you have an opinion, I assume it is based on something. So, I ask you. What evidence are you aware of that was used in this prosecution that the police failed to investigate "initially" ? All witnesses at the scene were interviewed. The autopsy, forensics, etc were all done "initially". What evidence was subsequently obtained that should be the basis for your "real outcry".

The fact that Trayvon Martin was unarmed; but still no charges were brought up was quite shocking to me. Though there is little doubt in my mind that Zimmerman is indeed innocent of the charges and it was most likely self defense; I find it highly questionable that there they would just take Zimmermans initial answers to questioning at face value.


They didn't just take Zimmerman's initial answers at face value. He had multiple injuries that were consistent with his story, they interviewed witnesses to corroborate his story, and they even tried pulling some tricks like saying they had a copy of the event on a security tape so they could gauge his reaction to see if his reaction was consistent with his story.
"that is our ethos; free content, starcraft content, websites that work occasionally" -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
Joedaddy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1948 Posts
July 14 2013 04:43 GMT
#8730
Nancy Grace: "This case was as polarizing as black and white."

Mind boggling how hard so many have tried so hard to make this race related.
I might be the minority on TL, but TL is the minority everywhere else.
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
July 14 2013 04:44 GMT
#8731
On July 14 2013 13:41 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2013 13:37 Kaitlin wrote:
On July 14 2013 13:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I think the real outcry should have just been on how little investigation the police initially did.


Since you have an opinion, I assume it is based on something. So, I ask you. What evidence are you aware of that was used in this prosecution that the police failed to investigate "initially" ? All witnesses at the scene were interviewed. The autopsy, forensics, etc were all done "initially". What evidence was subsequently obtained that should be the basis for your "real outcry".

The fact that Trayvon Martin was unarmed; but still no charges were brought up was quite shocking to me. Though there is little doubt in my mind that Zimmerman is indeed innocent of the charges and it was most likely self defense; I find it highly questionable that there they would just take Zimmermans initial answers to questioning at face value.

They didn't take just Zimmerman's answers. They took the autopsy, witness accounts, Zimmerman's injuries, and Zimmerman's 311 call before they decided to not pursue a criminal case.
Who called in the fleet?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 14 2013 04:44 GMT
#8732
Not to go off topic too much but rather odd we haven't heard from the NOI or even the FOI.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
July 14 2013 04:45 GMT
#8733
That stream is pretty funny. The loudest people are always the craziest.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
FatChicksUnited
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada214 Posts
July 14 2013 04:45 GMT
#8734
On July 14 2013 13:41 wei2coolman wrote:
The fact that Trayvon Martin was unarmed; but still no charges were brought up was quite shocking to me. Though there is little doubt in my mind that Zimmerman is indeed innocent of the charges and it was most likely self defense; I find it highly questionable that there they would just take Zimmermans initial answers to questioning at face value.

He was beaten up; Trayvon, aside from the gunshot wound and small abrasions on his fists, was completely unharmed. No eyewitnesses said anything really contrary to Zimmerman's versions of events. His 3 interviews at the station (the final one video-taped) seemed coherent and credible.

The lead investigator (who testified on the stand that he believed George's version of events) suggested a manslaughter charge but the local DA thought it was a stretch and nothing happened.
Fat chicks need love too.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-14 04:47:15
July 14 2013 04:46 GMT
#8735
On July 14 2013 13:43 Tewks44 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2013 13:41 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 14 2013 13:37 Kaitlin wrote:
On July 14 2013 13:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I think the real outcry should have just been on how little investigation the police initially did.


Since you have an opinion, I assume it is based on something. So, I ask you. What evidence are you aware of that was used in this prosecution that the police failed to investigate "initially" ? All witnesses at the scene were interviewed. The autopsy, forensics, etc were all done "initially". What evidence was subsequently obtained that should be the basis for your "real outcry".

The fact that Trayvon Martin was unarmed; but still no charges were brought up was quite shocking to me. Though there is little doubt in my mind that Zimmerman is indeed innocent of the charges and it was most likely self defense; I find it highly questionable that there they would just take Zimmermans initial answers to questioning at face value.


They didn't just take Zimmerman's initial answers at face value. He had multiple injuries that were consistent with his story, they interviewed witnesses to corroborate his story, and they even tried pulling some tricks like saying they had a copy of the event on a security tape so they could gauge his reaction to see if his reaction was consistent with his story.

The fact that it was "solved' in 5 hours after he was brought in to the police station seems a bit awry.
On July 14 2013 13:45 FatChicksUnited wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2013 13:41 wei2coolman wrote:
The fact that Trayvon Martin was unarmed; but still no charges were brought up was quite shocking to me. Though there is little doubt in my mind that Zimmerman is indeed innocent of the charges and it was most likely self defense; I find it highly questionable that there they would just take Zimmermans initial answers to questioning at face value.

He was beaten up; Trayvon, aside from the gunshot wound and small abrasions on his fists, was completely unharmed. No eyewitnesses said anything really contrary to Zimmerman's versions of events. His 3 interviews at the station (the final one video-taped) seemed coherent and credible.

The lead investigator (who testified on the stand that he believed George's version of events) suggested a manslaughter charge but the local DA thought it was a stretch and nothing happened.

That's what I would've put it up to; manslaughter. It would have been much easier to prove it than 2nd degree murder.
liftlift > tsm
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
July 14 2013 04:46 GMT
#8736
On July 14 2013 13:42 ShadowDrgn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2013 13:34 TmixX wrote:
On July 14 2013 13:12 NEOtheONE wrote:
Man the Twitter reactions to the verdict are something else. Celebrities in particular are painfully ignorant of the details of the trial.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/celebrities-on-twitter-react-to-george-zimmermans-acquittal


Roddy White@roddywhiteTV Follow
All them jurors should go home tonight and kill themselves for letting a grown man get away with killing a kid

yikes. what a piece of trash





I'm a huge Falcons fan and love Roddy White's playing ability, but the guy isn't the brightest person on the team. It's kind of embarrassing whenever he opens his mouth.

I'm more shocked by Wil Wheaton's response. I thought he at least had some brain cells or at least tact.


yeah Wil Wheaton's response really shocked me as well. Seemed very uncharacteristic of him.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
kmillz
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1548 Posts
July 14 2013 04:46 GMT
#8737
Yeah the stream is ridiculous. That last dude straight up said "we need to shoot the police" more or less...
ey215
Profile Joined June 2010
United States546 Posts
July 14 2013 04:47 GMT
#8738
On July 14 2013 13:34 TmixX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2013 13:12 NEOtheONE wrote:
Man the Twitter reactions to the verdict are something else. Celebrities in particular are painfully ignorant of the details of the trial.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/celebrities-on-twitter-react-to-george-zimmermans-acquittal


Roddy White@roddywhiteTV Follow
All them jurors should go home tonight and kill themselves for letting a grown man get away with killing a kid

yikes. what a piece of trash


I suspect that's going to be the shitstorm on the radio here in Atlanta on Monday. That was a really dumb thing to say.
Tewks44
Profile Joined April 2011
United States2032 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-14 04:48:44
July 14 2013 04:48 GMT
#8739
On July 14 2013 13:47 ey215 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2013 13:34 TmixX wrote:
On July 14 2013 13:12 NEOtheONE wrote:
Man the Twitter reactions to the verdict are something else. Celebrities in particular are painfully ignorant of the details of the trial.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/celebrities-on-twitter-react-to-george-zimmermans-acquittal


Roddy White@roddywhiteTV Follow
All them jurors should go home tonight and kill themselves for letting a grown man get away with killing a kid

yikes. what a piece of trash


I suspect that's going to be the shitstorm on the radio here in Atlanta on Monday. That was a really dumb thing to say.


What was said? (by Wil Wheaton)
"that is our ethos; free content, starcraft content, websites that work occasionally" -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
SilverLeagueElite
Profile Joined April 2010
United States626 Posts
July 14 2013 04:49 GMT
#8740
On July 14 2013 13:31 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2013 13:28 JumboJohnson wrote:
Its strange that a guy can investigate a confrontation, then shoot a man and be let off. Least that's how it feels to me. Oh well the jury has spoken. Just hope it doesn't set a bad precedent.

I think the real outcry should have just been on how little investigation the police initially did. But, then it quickly devolved into "zimmerman is a racist." If you think he deserved jail time; prosecution should have prosecuted under manslaughter not 2nd degree murder.

According to O'Mara's press conference, he said the investigation was quite diligent compared to other cases. Unless there were multiple investigations. I only followed this case starting with the trial but was there a lead investigator before Chris Serino?
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