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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 224

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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 01 2013 20:28 GMT
#4461
George Zimmerman Alleged Trayvon Martin Said, 'You Are Going to Die Tonight'

George Zimmerman, the Florida man accused of second degree murder for the death of Trayvon Martin, said the teen told him "you are going to die tonight" shortly before Zimmerman pulled the trigger.

Zimmerman made the statement in his first interview with police immediately after the Feb. 26, 2012 shooting.

He is now on trial for second degree murder in Martin's death. He maintains he shot the teenager in self defense.

The recorded audio interview between Zimmerman and Sanford police investigator Doris Singleton occurred after the former neighborhood watch captain agreed to waive his Miranda rights and speak without an attorney present.

"He jumped out from the bushes and said what the f**k is your problem," Zimmerman said to Singleton. "I said I don't have a problem and then he punched me in the nose."

"As soon as he punched me I fell backwards. He was whaling on my head and I started yelling help," said Zimmerman. "He grabbed my head and started hitting me into the sidewalk. I slid into the grass to get out from under him. I was still yelling out for help."

Zimmerman, 29, said he was screaming for help and felt like he couldn't breath as Martin allegedly attacked him.

Catch up on all the details from the George Zimmerman murder trial.

Zimmerman said Martin, 17, told him, "You are going to die tonight" and kept banging his head into the sidewalk, and that he shot and killed the teen soon after.

During cross examination Singleton told lead defense attorney Mark O'Mara that Zimmerman dropped his head when Singleton told him that Martin died and told her that Catholics should not kill.
Lead Detective to Testify in Zimmerman Trial Watch Video
George Zimmerman Witness Describes 'MMA Style' Fight Watch Video
Trayvon Martin's Friend: 'Creepy-Ass Cracker' Comment Not Racist Watch Video

Early in the audio interview Zimmerman talked about burglaries in the Retreat at Twin Lakes subdivision that led him to form a neighborhood watch team in his community. He said he had never seen Martin and that he appeared suspicious.

"It was raining out and he was leisurely walking looking at open houses," said Zimmerman. "I had called before and the police had come out but these guys know the neighborhood very well."

Zimmerman appeared stoic and jurors furiously took notes as the interview played in open court.

"I pulled my car to the side and I called the non-emergency line and I just reported that there was a suspicious person in the neighborhood," he told Singleton.

Timeline of George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin Case

Singleton testified that when Zimmerman entered the Sanford police department for his interview that night he had crusted blood on his nose and was using tissues to stop bleeding. She said that he did not ask for further medical assistance and that if he had she would have moved to take him to the hospital.

Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda walked Singleton through a map of the Retreat at Twin Lakes subdivision. Court documents show that investigators believe Martin was running in the direction of the home where he was staying as a guest in the neighborhood.

Singleton pointed out where Zimmerman said he lost Martin behind bushes, but said she didn't see any indication of bushes on the map.

As the second week of testimony began today, the prosecution appeared to be moving away from neighbor witness testimony and are now focusing on forensics and the initial investigation in the early days of the case.

Hirotaka Nakasone, an FBI voice analysis expert took the stand before Singleton and said the 911 audio that investigators used to try and determine who screamed is not nearly enough to learn who screamed that night.

"The screaming goes in and out when the dispatcher…was talking," said Nakasone. "We cannot really analyze voice when it is stepped over by something else."

Nakasone said he heard 18.8 seconds of screams but only 2.53 could be isolated, not nearly enough to make a valid analysis. However, Nakasone testified that the best person to ID a voice is a person familiar with the voice.

Martin's family insist the screams came from the teenager, but Zimmerman insists those screams for help are his.

In pre-trial hearings, Nakasone was called to take the stand by the defense to rebut two state experts who said they could hear Martin screaming during those 911 calls. The judge has ruled their testimony inadmissible because the methodology used by those experts to determine the scream was unproven.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/george-zimmerman-alleged-trayvon-martin-die-tonight/story?id=19543886#.UdHmO9iDmSo
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 01 2013 20:29 GMT
#4462
Jury hears Zimmerman's voice describe shooting of Trayvon Martin

Jurors heard the voice of George Zimmerman describe his fateful confrontation with unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin as police investigators who interviewed the neighborhood watch volunteer took the stand on Monday.

Zimmerman, 29, is charged with second-degree murder in the shooting of Martin, a 17-year-old African American, on Feb. 26, 2012, in a gated community in Sanford, Fla. Zimmerman has said he shot Martin in self-defense.

Defense attorneys have not said whether Zimmerman will take the stand on his own behalf when the defense presents its case. So Zimmerman’s comments and written statements to police may be the only version that the six-person jury gets to hear in the trial, which prompted demonstrations by civil rights leaders across the nation.

PHOTOS: The controversial case in pictures

Doris Singleton, of the Sanford Police Department, took the stand Monday morning after an FBI expert questioned whether there was any scientific basis to identify the voice screaming in the background of a 911 emergency telephone call. The defense contends the voice belongs to Martin while the prosecution argues it is Zimmerman’s.

She was followed by Chris F. Serino, the lead investigator who interviewed as well as videotaped Zimmerman as they walked through the 2012 events.

Singleton was the first police officer to interview Zimmerman after the shooting. In the recording, Zimmerman is heard describing how he saw Martin and told a police dispatcher: “These guys always get away. ... The people committing the burglaries.” That is one of the prosecution’s themes about motive as they have portrayed Zimmerman as becoming increasingly frustrated by crime in the housing community.

GRAPHIC: Who's who in the Trayvon Martin case

Zimmerman told Singleton that he lost track of Martin so he got out of his truck to look for a street name that he could pass on to authorities. When the dispatcher said that Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin and that he should leave the investigation to police, Zimmerman said he started to head back to his vehicle.

At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out from some bushes and attacked him and that Zimmerman fell to the ground. Zimmerman said he yelled for help as Martin began hitting Zimmerman’s head against the sidewalk.

"I said 'Help me. Help me. He's killing me,'" Zimmerman said. He then told the police investigator that Martin replied: “You're going to die tonight.”

Zimmerman said he struggled with Martin. As they fought, Zimmerman said his clothes were pushed up enough to show his gun. Zimmerman said he thought Martin was reaching for the weapon so the neighborhood watch volunteer said he shot Martin.

“You got me,” the teenager said, Zimmerman told the officer.

Jurors were also given Zimmerman's written statement, which Singleton read. Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda noted that Zimmerman repeatedly refers to Martin as a “suspect.” Singleton said she never told him to use that term.

Prosecutors maintain that Zimmerman profiled Martin, followed him and attacked him and that there was no evidence that Martin was a suspect. Martin actually was returning from a convenience store where he had just purchased candy and a soft drink and was returning to a house at the complex where he was staying.

In the statement, Zimmerman again described the beating he said he received. “My head felt like it was going to explode... the suspect covered my mouth and nose and stopped my breathing.”

Zimmerman also wrote that after the shot, he climbed on top of Martin and spread his arms. Police who responded to the incident testified last week that Martin’s hands were beneath the teenager’s body when they arrived at the scene.

On cross-examination, defense attorney Mark O’Mara tried to minimize the impact of possible contradictions by asking Singleton whether a traumatic event, like a shooting, could have an effect on a person’s ability to recount the events. She agreed it could.

Singleton also said she had no evidence that Zimmerman had any ill will, anger or hatred for the teen. Those terms go to what the prosecution must prove to get a second-degree murder conviction.

Singleton said Zimmerman seemed surprised when she told him Martin was dead. "He's dead?” Singleton recounted Zimmerman asking.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-police-interview-20130701,0,343480.story
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 01 2013 20:34 GMT
#4463
For those who are more familiar with the case, how many witnesses does the State have left? I would think that Trayvon's parents would testify at some point. Anyone else still looming? Any estimate on which day of this week that the State rests?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 01 2013 20:34 GMT
#4464
On July 02 2013 05:27 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 05:23 Plansix wrote:
On July 02 2013 05:18 Kaitlin wrote:
On July 02 2013 05:14 dAPhREAk wrote:
On July 02 2013 05:09 xDaunt wrote:
On July 02 2013 05:07 dAPhREAk wrote:
zimmerman hears 911 calls of someone screaming and says "that doesnt even sound like me."

interesting.

That supports the testimony of the expert from this morning. People who are screaming don't sound like themselves. Keep in mind that Zimmerman still said that he was the one screaming.

every time i listen to my voice mail i think "who is this guy?" still, instead of saying "that doesnt sound like me," he should have noted that he was the one screaming so thats probably him.

honestly, this doesnt change my opinion that he was screaming. i just found his statement interesting. its going to be the lynchpin of the prosecutor's arguments down the road: "even zimmerman says the voice screaming for help isnt him."


and I think every juror will disregard that argument as they probably experience the same thing as you and I have with our recorded voices. They know GZ has said he was screaming, and they likely experience the same dissonance between how they think they sound and how they sound when hearing a recording of their voice. Won't likely be effective, and probably will actually be weak if used by the prosecutor to make that point. General personal experience tells them otherwise.


Having been on a jury where a lot of people disagreed, I could see it both ways. If you get a couple people in there that believe that GZ should have recognized his own voice, they could start to turn the entire jury. The Defense would be well served to get some sort of evidence or expert testimony proving that voice are significantly distorted when screaming. Anything to put some doubt in the DA claim.


Well, he also said that he didn't remember mentioning the button on Trayvon's hoodie. Does that bring into question whether he did or not ? He has been saying from the beginning that he was calling out for help and nobody would help. To use a statement that the recorded scream sounded different doesn't refute that at all.


I am not saying that they would be correct in doing so, I am just pointing out that juries can get hung up on issues like that. If a couple of folk on that jury believe that they would recognize their own voice, even if they were screaming, they could convince the rest of the jury as well. That is why I said the defense would be well served to get in front of that and put some doubt in their mind. This thing isn't decided by logic, it decided by 6 people.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 01 2013 20:38 GMT
#4465
On July 02 2013 05:34 xDaunt wrote:
For those who are more familiar with the case, how many witnesses does the State have left? I would think that Trayvon's parents would testify at some point. Anyone else still looming? Any estimate on which day of this week that the State rests?

i dont think the state has much left. maybe just the parents. one of the news articles references forensics, but they already had the crime scene investigator, so i am not sure they will have another person. once they finish the zimmerman statements and parents, i think the state will rest.

the defense will likely bring on zimmerman's parents, but not sure anyone else. however, i do not think that the defense will allow the case to end before 4th of july. the likelihood of a quick jury decision (usually not good for defense) if they have a looming holiday is immense.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 01 2013 20:38 GMT
#4466
This will be a fun cross.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 01 2013 20:41 GMT
#4467
discounting the women investigator as lacking background information. good tactic.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 01 2013 20:46 GMT
#4468
On July 02 2013 05:41 dAPhREAk wrote:
discounting the women investigator as lacking background information. good tactic.

With an all female jury? Sound stellar.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
July 01 2013 20:47 GMT
#4469
Crump must be on the witness list otherwise he wouldn't be excluded from the courtroom, no ?
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 01 2013 20:47 GMT
#4470
On July 02 2013 05:46 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 05:41 dAPhREAk wrote:
discounting the women investigator as lacking background information. good tactic.

With an all female jury? Sound stellar.

i think you missed the point. it has nothing to do with her sex.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 01 2013 20:47 GMT
#4471
On July 02 2013 05:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Crump must be on the witness list otherwise he wouldn't be excluded from the courtroom, no ?

correct.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 01 2013 20:50 GMT
#4472
On July 02 2013 05:38 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 05:34 xDaunt wrote:
For those who are more familiar with the case, how many witnesses does the State have left? I would think that Trayvon's parents would testify at some point. Anyone else still looming? Any estimate on which day of this week that the State rests?

i dont think the state has much left. maybe just the parents. one of the news articles references forensics, but they already had the crime scene investigator, so i am not sure they will have another person. once they finish the zimmerman statements and parents, i think the state will rest.

the defense will likely bring on zimmerman's parents, but not sure anyone else. however, i do not think that the defense will allow the case to end before 4th of july. the likelihood of a quick jury decision (usually not good for defense) if they have a looming holiday is immense.

I'm not too interested in the defense's case. I don't think that they're going to have to do much. I'm more interested in the looming motion for a directed verdict. From my quasi-informed point of view (I'm not a criminal attorney), I'm pretty sure that the Murder 2 charge is gone. I really wouldn't be surprised if the manslaughter charge is gone, too.
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
July 01 2013 20:53 GMT
#4473
On July 02 2013 05:50 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 05:38 dAPhREAk wrote:
On July 02 2013 05:34 xDaunt wrote:
For those who are more familiar with the case, how many witnesses does the State have left? I would think that Trayvon's parents would testify at some point. Anyone else still looming? Any estimate on which day of this week that the State rests?

i dont think the state has much left. maybe just the parents. one of the news articles references forensics, but they already had the crime scene investigator, so i am not sure they will have another person. once they finish the zimmerman statements and parents, i think the state will rest.

the defense will likely bring on zimmerman's parents, but not sure anyone else. however, i do not think that the defense will allow the case to end before 4th of july. the likelihood of a quick jury decision (usually not good for defense) if they have a looming holiday is immense.

I'm not too interested in the defense's case. I don't think that they're going to have to do much. I'm more interested in the looming motion for a directed verdict. From my quasi-informed point of view (I'm not a criminal attorney), I'm pretty sure that the Murder 2 charge is gone. I really wouldn't be surprised if the manslaughter charge is gone, too.


It's what I would expect in a normal case, but at the same time, I expect the defense to have to put on a case in this particular case. I would be shocked if the trial ended via directed verdict, and only somewhat less shocked if only the murder 2 was dropped.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 01 2013 20:54 GMT
#4474
how many times do you think O'Mara will say "John Good" during this cross? wants to make sure the jury doesnt forget him apparently.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
July 01 2013 20:57 GMT
#4475
On July 02 2013 05:54 dAPhREAk wrote:
how many times do you think O'Mara will say "John Good" during this cross? wants to make sure the jury doesnt forget him apparently.


Yeah...

Being that no matter how much intent to kill Zimmerman had for Trayvon--a witness seeing trayvon on top of Zimmerman being told to stop and not stopping means that self defense is 100% justified.

Not mentioning John Good would be criminal negligence at this point.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 01 2013 20:57 GMT
#4476
On July 02 2013 05:53 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2013 05:50 xDaunt wrote:
On July 02 2013 05:38 dAPhREAk wrote:
On July 02 2013 05:34 xDaunt wrote:
For those who are more familiar with the case, how many witnesses does the State have left? I would think that Trayvon's parents would testify at some point. Anyone else still looming? Any estimate on which day of this week that the State rests?

i dont think the state has much left. maybe just the parents. one of the news articles references forensics, but they already had the crime scene investigator, so i am not sure they will have another person. once they finish the zimmerman statements and parents, i think the state will rest.

the defense will likely bring on zimmerman's parents, but not sure anyone else. however, i do not think that the defense will allow the case to end before 4th of july. the likelihood of a quick jury decision (usually not good for defense) if they have a looming holiday is immense.

I'm not too interested in the defense's case. I don't think that they're going to have to do much. I'm more interested in the looming motion for a directed verdict. From my quasi-informed point of view (I'm not a criminal attorney), I'm pretty sure that the Murder 2 charge is gone. I really wouldn't be surprised if the manslaughter charge is gone, too.


It's what I would expect in a normal case, but at the same time, I expect the defense to have to put on a case in this particular case. I would be shocked if the trial ended via directed verdict, and only somewhat less shocked if only the murder 2 was dropped.

What I don't know is precisely how much of a showing that the DA has to make to avoid a directed verdict. A directed verdict is supposed to be entered if no reasonable jury could convict the defendant on the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt. Looking at the state's evidence, I don't think that they have proved the charges by even a preponderance of the evidence, much less beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Preponderance of the evidence means just slightly more likely than not (ie 51/49 balancing)]
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
July 01 2013 20:58 GMT
#4477
On July 02 2013 05:54 dAPhREAk wrote:
how many times do you think O'Mara will say "John Good" during this cross? wants to make sure the jury doesnt forget him apparently.

I expect him to start throwing out Good puns at any moment now.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
July 01 2013 20:58 GMT
#4478
I love this investigator's voice. He's the version of every cartoon investigator I imagine in my brain.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 01 2013 21:02 GMT
#4479
"fearing for his life trauma" -- lead investigator
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5080 Posts
July 01 2013 21:02 GMT
#4480
On July 02 2013 05:34 xDaunt wrote:
For those who are more familiar with the case, how many witnesses does the State have left? I would think that Trayvon's parents would testify at some point. Anyone else still looming? Any estimate on which day of this week that the State rests?


Don't you mean how many witnesses the defense has left? I haven't seen a prosecution witness take the stand yet.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
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